You can say what you want to...about Tyler Perry...in the realms of film and television! That's not what made Tyler Perry who he is...AND...that's not who Tyler Perry is!

Tyler Perry is...an astonishing...PLAYWRIGHT!

His PLAYS are what put him...where he is and it's his PLAYS that have kept him there.

Instead of being applauded, appreciated and at the very least...respected...for that. By those that have come before him. Tyler Perry has been ridiculed, mocked and not taken seriously since 2002. When he landed a full roundhouse...on the gaping jaws of the entire "hollywood" industry and did it the way HE saw fit to do it.

Tyler is a thoroughbred hustler and this whole brew ha ha...is a publicity stunt to fill seats for the release of his movie tomorrow. I can't be mad at him for that because I've seen far worse stunts.

As for Spike Lee, instead of knocking Tyler's hustle, he should try teaming up with him and working together...on putting out the kinds of movies, he's been expecting Tyler to make but he himself couldn't get made.

whistle said:

i love Spike's work but he's always been a hater. just ask Wim Wenders.

Or Prince,

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

You can say what you want to...about Tyler Perry...in the realms of film and television! That's not what made Tyler Perry who he is...AND...that's not who Tyler Perry is!

Tyler Perry is...an astonishing...PLAYWRIGHT!

His PLAYS are what put him...where he is and it's his PLAYS that have kept him there.

Instead of being applauded, appreciated and at the very least...respected...for that. By those that have come before him. Tyler Perry has been ridiculed, mocked and not taken seriously since 2002. When he landed a full roundhouse...on the gaping jaws of the entire "hollywood" industry and did it the way HE saw fit to do it.

Tyler is a thoroughbred hustler and this whole brew ha ha...is a publicity stunt to fill seats for the release of his movie tomorrow. I can't be mad at him for that because I've seen far worse stunts.

As for Spike Lee, instead of knocking Tyler's hustle, he should try teaming up with him and working together...on putting out the kinds of movies, he's been expecting Tyler to make but he himself couldn't get made.

And I will be in the audience watching "Madea's Big Happy family"

babynoz said:

whistle said:

i love Spike's work but he's always been a hater. just ask Wim Wenders.

Or Prince,

.....or Whoopi, Quenton, & Clint.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

You can say what you want to...about Tyler Perry...in the realms of film and television! That's not what made Tyler Perry who he is...AND...that's not who Tyler Perry is!

Tyler Perry is...an astonishing...PLAYWRIGHT!

His PLAYS are what put him...where he is and it's his PLAYS that have kept him there.

Instead of being applauded, appreciated and at the very least...respected...for that. By those that have come before him. Tyler Perry has been ridiculed, mocked and not taken seriously since 2002. When he landed a full roundhouse...on the gaping jaws of the entire "hollywood" industry and did it the way HE saw fit to do it.

Tyler is a thoroughbred hustler and this whole brew ha ha...is a publicity stunt to fill seats for the release of his movie tomorrow. I can't be mad at him for that because I've seen far worse stunts.

As for Spike Lee, instead of knocking Tyler's hustle, he should try teaming up with him and working together...on putting out the kinds of movies, he's been expecting Tyler to make but he himself couldn't get made.

I'm sad to say, but The Powers That Be (TPTB) within the industry will stop at nothing to prevent a potential Lee/Tyler film making alliance.

If TPTB have the power to prevent black folks from having the first ever black-owned distribution company to help independent record labels put out black music (hip-hop/rap, The Funk, jazz, or otherwise), then TPTB definitely have the power to prevent any chance of peace between Spike Lee & Tyler Perry.

[Edited 4/21/11 15:47pm]

namepeace said:

SonOfSoul said:

I don't think Spike's message was that. I think all he did was show just how hard it is, as well as show some of the pre-conceived notions - right or wrong - races have of each other.

I disagree. The script of Jungle Fever -- a good movie -- dripped with disdain over the black male-white female relationship in ANY context (adulterous or otherwise). Even the title dehumanized that brother-with-a-white-girl thing. It may have been the reason the ending was so bizarre.

But, the black woman-white man angle was far better and had far more heart, and that gets overlooked.

And I disagree that it was a good movie. Spike was unfocused and all over the place with his messages. The whole "Cracked out Brother" was totally unnecessary. But I digest.

Yes, there was disdain, I never said otherwise, but his overall message was to show just how tough interracial couples had it from both sides.

TonyVanDam said:

I say this much, I would NEVER want to get into a war of words with Dr. bell hooks, even if I strongly disagree with her on anything! I put her in the same category as Paul Mooney, Minister Louis Farakhan, & Andrew Dice Clay as someone that I strong advised other people to don't f*** with. Plain and simple.

WORD!

SonOfSoul said:

namepeace said:

I disagree. The script of Jungle Fever -- a good movie -- dripped with disdain over the black male-white female relationship in ANY context (adulterous or otherwise). Even the title dehumanized that brother-with-a-white-girl thing. It may have been the reason the ending was so bizarre.

But, the black woman-white man angle was far better and had far more heart, and that gets overlooked.

And I disagree that it was a good movie. Spike was unfocused and all over the place with his messages. The whole "Cracked out Brother" was totally unnecessary. But I digest.

Yes, there was disdain, I never said otherwise, but his overall message was to show just how tough interracial couples had it from both sides.

"Jungle Fever" was all over the fucking place. The only scenes that stayed with me are Samuel L. Jackson's scenes as a crackhead (along with Halle Berry) and oddly enough I remember Charlie Murphy in a bit in the film just before Wesley go into the crackhouse. Probably one of his worst films to date. Samuel L. Jackson's role and Stevie Wonder's music were the only highlights.

Timmy84 said:

SonOfSoul said:

And I disagree that it was a good movie. Spike was unfocused and all over the place with his messages. The whole "Cracked out Brother" was totally unnecessary. But I digest.

Yes, there was disdain, I never said otherwise, but his overall message was to show just how tough interracial couples had it from both sides.

"Jungle Fever" was all over the fucking place. The only scenes that stayed with me are Samuel L. Jackson's scenes as a crackhead (along with Halle Berry) and oddly enough I remember Charlie Murphy in a bit in the film just before Wesley go into the crackhouse. Probably one of his worst films to date. Samuel L. Jackson's role and Stevie Wonder's music were the only highlights.

You mean "Dahk-niss" was in JF?

jaimestarr79 said:

I forgot Bamboolzed!!!! That was one of my favorite movies. That movie lays out Spike Lee's argument for Tyler Perry. Tyler Perry should watch this film.

I was wondering when someone would mention his second best movie (the first being Malcolm X).

SonOfSoul said:

Timmy84 said:

"Jungle Fever" was all over the fucking place. The only scenes that stayed with me are Samuel L. Jackson's scenes as a crackhead (along with Halle Berry) and oddly enough I remember Charlie Murphy in a bit in the film just before Wesley go into the crackhouse. Probably one of his worst films to date. Samuel L. Jackson's role and Stevie Wonder's music were the only highlights.

You mean "Dahk-niss" was in JF?

BROTHER DAHK-NISS was definitely in "Fever".

Timmy84 said:

SonOfSoul said:

You mean "Dahk-niss" was in JF?

BROTHER DAHK-NISS was definitely in "Fever".

I gotta see it again now.

SonOfSoul said:

Timmy84 said:

BROTHER DAHK-NISS was definitely in "Fever".

I gotta see it again now.

Like I said I think it's before Wesley comes in the crackhouse to get the TV back from the crackhouse that Samuel stole. DARKNESS was wearing a light blue suit, you can't miss him.

Timmy84 said:

SonOfSoul said:

I gotta see it again now.

Like I said I think it's before Wesley comes in the crackhouse to get the TV back from the crackhouse that Samuel stole. DARKNESS was wearing a light blue suit, you can't miss him.

Ok. I think Elise Neal is around that scene, as a hooker.

SonOfSoul said:

Timmy84 said:

Like I said I think it's before Wesley comes in the crackhouse to get the TV back from the crackhouse that Samuel stole. DARKNESS was wearing a light blue suit, you can't miss him.

Ok. I think Elise Neal is around that scene, as a hooker.

Yep.

SCNDLS said:

Harlepolis said:

Tyler has always been easy on the eyes. His movies on the other hand......

He can try to make this about Spike all he wants to but there's a lot of validity in the criticism coming his way. If he doesn't want to grow and evolve as an artist fine, just say that, but acting like his shit don't stink is silly.

But this passage is just laughable. For him to compare the dreck he writes and produces to these well-written shows and talented authors made me

“This is where the whole Spike Lee [thing] comes from – the negativity, this is Stepin Fetchit, this is coonery, this is buffoonery, and they try to get people to get on this bandwagon with them, to get this mob mentality to come against what I’m doing. I’ve never seen Jewish people attack “Seinfeld” and say ‘this is a stereotype,’ I’ve never seen Italian people attack “The Sopranos,” I’ve never seen Jewish people complaining about Mrs. Doubtfire or Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie. I never saw it. It’s always black people, and this is something that I cannot undo. Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. DuBois went through the exact same thing; Langston Hughes said that Zora Neale Hurston, the woman who wrote Their Eyes Were Watching God, was a new version of the darkie because she spoke in a southern dialect and a Southern tone.”

[Edited 4/20/11 9:30am]

Don't know what Tyler is talking about but umm, that has in fact happened. I remember reading about a lot of criticism regarding "The Sopranos" from Italian Americans. Tyler is just blowing smoke. I ain't going to waste my money on his damn movie either.

Ah, Perry, you do know there are heighth requirments in hell? Spike and Prince are lucky.

U know what?

Spike Lee is ugly.

he looks like a frog.

Just had to get that off my chest.

Tyler is showing through his Madea. Time to wrap it up.

missfee said:

SCNDLS said:

He can try to make this about Spike all he wants to but there's a lot of validity in the criticism coming his way. If he doesn't want to grow and evolve as an artist fine, just say that, but acting like his shit don't stink is silly.

But this passage is just laughable. For him to compare the dreck he writes and produces to these well-written shows and talented authors made me

“This is where the whole Spike Lee [thing] comes from – the negativity, this is Stepin Fetchit, this is coonery, this is buffoonery, and they try to get people to get on this bandwagon with them, to get this mob mentality to come against what I’m doing. I’ve never seen Jewish people attack “Seinfeld” and say ‘this is a stereotype,’ I’ve never seen Italian people attack “The Sopranos,” I’ve never seen Jewish people complaining about Mrs. Doubtfire or Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie. I never saw it. It’s always black people, and this is something that I cannot undo. Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. DuBois went through the exact same thing; Langston Hughes said that Zora Neale Hurston, the woman who wrote Their Eyes Were Watching God, was a new version of the darkie because she spoke in a southern dialect and a Southern tone.”

[Edited 4/20/11 9:30am]

Don't know what Tyler is talking about but umm, that has in fact happened. I remember reading about a lot of criticism regarding "The Sopranos" from Italian Americans. Tyler is just blowing smoke. I ain't going to waste my money on his damn movie either.

Not to mention there's Italian Americans right now attacking "Jersey Shore" for the same thing.

Timmy84 said:

missfee said:

Don't know what Tyler is talking about but umm, that has in fact happened. I remember reading about a lot of criticism regarding "The Sopranos" from Italian Americans. Tyler is just blowing smoke. I ain't going to waste my money on his damn movie either.

Not to mention there's Italian Americans right now attacking "Jersey Shore" for the same thing.

And Mob Wives. He was really reaching with that analogy but worse is his expectation that black folks ain't supposed to hope he would deliver better content and depict us in a more well-rounded manner considering he's black. Boy, hursh.

SCNDLS said:

Timmy84 said:

Not to mention there's Italian Americans right now attacking "Jersey Shore" for the same thing.

And Mob Wives. He was really reaching with that analogy but worse is his expectation that black folks ain't supposed to hope he would deliver better content and depict us in a more well-rounded manner considering he's black. Boy, hursh.

The thing he missed about Dustin Hoffman, is that he didn't make a career out of playing "Mrs. Doubtfire" and making sequel after sequel about that character. Tyler just overdoes it with that Madea character, and it's time for Tyler to put Madea down, because it seems like that's his only goal--making never-ending Madea movies. It's what got his foot in the door and climb up the ladder, but if he expects to grow as a filmmaker, then he has to bring out his creative skills a bit more.There's so many stories he could tell and so many movies he could make, that could become epics, but I guess that remains to be seen.

[Edited 4/22/11 11:45am]

2elijah said:

SCNDLS said:

And Mob Wives. He was really reaching with that analogy but worse is his expectation that black folks ain't supposed to hope he would deliver better content and depict us in a more well-rounded manner considering he's black. Boy, hursh.

The thing he missed about Dustin Hoffman, is that he didn't make a career out of playing "Mrs. Doubtfire" and making sequel after sequel about that character. Tyler just overdoes it with that Madea character, and it's time for Tyler to put Madea down, because it seems like that's his only goal--making never-ending Madea movies. It's what got his foot in the door and climb up the ladder, but if he expects to grow as a filmmaker, then he has to bring out his creative skills a bit more.There's so many stories he could tell and so many movies he could make, that could become epics, but I guess that remains to be seen.

[Edited 4/22/11 11:45am]

Ah but here's the thing; he already expressed his indifference to do so. Why? Because, and I quote "as long as people go to see Madea, I will not kill her".

I think more gravy to Tyler, and the ones who support him. I just hope there'll be balance and options when it comes to the portrayal of black people in films. He mentioned all of those groups, but the ONE thing he fail to mention was - unlike us - their media outlets are balanced, they have the options to see a Mrs.Doubtfire or Annie Hall(I've picked those two, out of million other examples) whereas, Tyler is the ONLY black filmmaker producing film right now, and the rest are deemed to be in straight-to-DVD/limited release screenings fate. So you know, what type of options we have

Now, thats not his fault, but this is a whole different tune for another dance.

[Edited 4/22/11 11:54am]

SonOfSoul said:

namepeace said:

I disagree. The script of Jungle Fever -- a good movie -- dripped with disdain over the black male-white female relationship in ANY context (adulterous or otherwise). Even the title dehumanized that brother-with-a-white-girl thing. It may have been the reason the ending was so bizarre.

But, the black woman-white man angle was far better and had far more heart, and that gets overlooked.

And I disagree that it was a good movie. Spike was unfocused and all over the place with his messages. The whole "Cracked out Brother" was totally unnecessary. But I digest.

Yes, there was disdain, I never said otherwise, but his overall message was to show just how tough interracial couples had it from both sides.

It was flawed, but several performances saved it. I agree with you that his basic message came through, and I believe I noted that in the last sentence of my post.

The WM-BF relationship was far more nuanced, and I bet if it had been the primary focus of the movie it would have been a great movie instead of (IMO) a good one.

And I think the movie was hijacked by Spike's emphasis on the drug storyline, perhaps in response to critics who pointed out that Spike's prior efforts didn't deal with drugs (as if they HAD to).

[Edited 4/22/11 12:17pm]

2elijah said:

SCNDLS said:

And Mob Wives. He was really reaching with that analogy but worse is his expectation that black folks ain't supposed to hope he would deliver better content and depict us in a more well-rounded manner considering he's black. Boy, hursh.

The thing he missed about Dustin Hoffman, is that he didn't make a career out of playing "Mrs. Doubtfire" and making sequel after sequel about that character. Tyler just overdoes it with that Madea character, and it's time for Tyler to put Madea down, because it seems like that's his only goal--making never-ending Madea movies. It's what got his foot in the door and climb up the ladder, but if he expects to grow as a filmmaker, then he has to bring out his creative skills a bit more.There's so many stories he could tell and so many movies he could make, that could become epics, but I guess that remains to be seen.

[Edited 4/22/11 11:45am]

CORRECTION: Robin Williams (NOT Dustin Hoffman) was Mrs. Doubtfire. Dustin Hoffman was Toostie.

namepeace said:

SonOfSoul said:

And I disagree that it was a good movie. Spike was unfocused and all over the place with his messages. The whole "Cracked out Brother" was totally unnecessary. But I digest.

Yes, there was disdain, I never said otherwise, but his overall message was to show just how tough interracial couples had it from both sides.

It was flawed, but several performances saved it. I agree with you that his basic message came through, and I believe I noted that in the last sentence of my post.

The WM-BF relationship was far more nuanced, and I bet if it had been the primary focus of the movie it would have been a great movie instead of (IMO) a good one.

And I think the movie was hijacked by Spike's emphasis on the drug storyline, perhaps in response to critics who pointed out that Spike's prior efforts didn't deal with drugs (as if they HAD to).

[Edited 4/22/11 12:17pm]

I truly hope he didn't it do for that purpose.

SonOfSoul said:

namepeace said:

It was flawed, but several performances saved it. I agree with you that his basic message came through, and I believe I noted that in the last sentence of my post.

The WM-BF relationship was far more nuanced, and I bet if it had been the primary focus of the movie it would have been a great movie instead of (IMO) a good one.

And I think the movie was hijacked by Spike's emphasis on the drug storyline, perhaps in response to critics who pointed out that Spike's prior efforts didn't deal with drugs (as if they HAD to).

[Edited 4/22/11 12:17pm]

I truly hope he didn't it do for that purpose.

He probably did knowing him...

Timmy84 said:

SonOfSoul said:

I truly hope he didn't it do for that purpose.

He probably did knowing him...

do a google books search for a book titled "Spike Lee Interviews," edited by Cynthia Fuchs. His interview with Playboy touches on that issue (p. 48) and also addresses wim wenders' comments.

[Edited 4/22/11 19:32pm]

The Madea mogul lashed out at Spike Lee this week, two years after his rival's stinging criticism of his work. Allison Samuels on the not-so-secret battle raging in Black Hollywood.

Just this past Wednesday, radio shows, entertainment blogs, and countless websites were all abuzz with Tyler Perry’s chastising words for fellow African-American director Spike Lee.

Kevin Winter / Getty Images; Inset: Charles Sykes / AP Photo

The Hollywood powerhouse (and Oprah’s BFF besides Gayle), whose new filmMadea’s Big Happy Family opens today, let loose some apparently long-held anger by declaring: “I’m so sick of hearing about damn Spike Lee. Spike can go straight to hell."

It seems a while back, Lee took offense with Perry’s writing and choice of material for his weekly television shows and in his films featuring the ever-present Madea.

Perry’s outraged response to Lee via his website and press conference turned out to be captivating news to many, but truly perplexing to even more.

Not only did Lee’s comments referencing Perry’s characters and plot lines as buffoonish “coonery” date back to 2009, the feeling that Perry’s movies often do more harm than good to the image of African Americans and even less for black actors creatively has long been Black Hollywood’s dirty, not-so-secret little secret.

Certainly no one is more aware of this fact than Perry himself.

In an industry that produces few films featuring African Americans in lead roles (or at all) each year, Perry has become the King of the Hill for most things black in Hollywood.

While the late '80s and early '90s saw Lee modestly dominate the box office withcomplex tales of black life, culture, and politics, Perry has made a rather impressive mint with a much simpler, less progressive approach.

Put an African-American man, usually Perry, in a wig, dress, and makeup and let the laughter begin and the box-office receipts overflow.

Of course black men in drag hitting box office or television gold isn’t a new concept in Hollywood. Comedian Flip Wilson did it first and arguably the best as “Geraldine" onThe Flip Wilson Show during the '70s. Perry saw fit to up the ante with Madea, equipping his female impersonator with a gun , Bible, and her own unique choice of words and pronunciations. Audiences can’t get enough.

The nearly billion-dollar success Perry’s built on the back of Madea, coupled with the basic lack of opportunities for African Americans in Tinseltown, has allowed Perry to thrive and, more importantly, amass a die-hard loyalty from some of Hollywood’s top black talent, for better or for worse.

No doubt, that top talent would surely prefer to have other options in film roles if they were indeed available. They aren’t. Just ask Angela Bassett.

“Listen, no one in black Hollywood is going to attack Tyler’s work—in public that is," says a well-known black Hollywood producer who also asked not to be identified. “But be clear, no one--not the black actors in his films or anyone else black in this industry--thinks he’s doing outstanding work. No one is going to say that out loud of course because they need the work. He’s the only one hiring."

With consistently solid ratings for his television shows on TNT and box-office hits in theaters, some say Perry’s become spoiled and accustomed to the unwavering support he’s enjoyed from the likes of Oprah Winfrey, Whoopi Goldberg, and others.

“That’s why he’s so pissed at Spike. No one calls him out like that," says the producer.

Apparently even Lee doesn’t call him out like that anymore. Several sources say that after Lee openly criticized Perry in 2009, a few well-established black directors and producers approached the New York-based Malcolm X filmmaker and asked him to tone down his rhetoric. The concerned group cited the need to show a united front in support of Perry’s success to the mainstream world despite any misgivings with his work.

Lee has yet to respond to Perry’s recent comments, and Perry did not respond to The Daily Beast's request for comment.

“It benefits no one black to attack anyone else black in this business, it’s too few of us at this point to even get caught up in that fight. No one wins," said another producer who also declined to be identified.

Perry made exactly the same argument on his website this week as he stressed Italians, Jews, and other ethnic groups rarely publicly criticize one another or demean the work and success of another for the world to see. He also likened his battle with Lee as akin to the Booker T. Washington vs. W.E.B Du Bois feud of the late 1800s, when the two openly sparred over the best way for African Americans to move forward from slavery into freedom.

While few failed to see that connection in Perry’s tirade, many in the black blogosphere have used Perry’s rant to open a public discussion on the merit of his films. The hundreds of responses make it crystal clear that Lee’s comments, no matter how dated, hit a nerve that remains exposed.

“It’s the same old point, if we had other movies, it wouldn’t be so bad," said Lana Thomas, a 35-year-old, die-hard Perry fan from Inglewood, California. “I love Tyler’s movies but I see the stereotypes in them, too. I also see it’s the same thing every film. It’s funny, just not sure if it will still be funny in five years."

The two debates that frequently go hand in hand are likely to rage on concerning Perry and his body of work. One argument examines the age-old conundrum of where, if, and when blacks should air their dirty laundry in public, while the other ponders if anything on screen depicting African Americans is better than seeing nothing all. Neither will be resolved soon.

Therein lies the problem. Though Perry’s movies may not be headed for Turner Classic Movies in 20 years, he does get the African-American audience out in droves to see his work. A feat Spike Lee and several other black directors have found hard to accomplish in recent years

***

So, the people who worked/working in Tyler Perry's films think his films shitty too. Well well, what do you know? So much for Spike Lee's supposed "bitterness/jealousy/hateration etc etc etc"

[Edited 4/23/11 1:29am]