SagsWay2low said:

2elijah said:

She's an athlete, and many athletic women are built like that.

I agree that many female atheletes are built like that. My statement wasn't meant to be a generalized view of female, black, nor athletic women though. Just her. She's u-g-l-y without an alibi.

She is not Ugly...

You like both men & women but within your personal taste you still have a TYPE that you prefer, you dont find Serena attractive because she is not your type. This makes her unappealing to YOU.

Please try not to generalise Dan, your usually more astute when you post even when your trying to be funny.

NWI

[Edited 4/9/11 18:53pm]

JOYJOY said:

SagsWay2low said:

I agree that many female atheletes are built like that. My statement wasn't meant to be a generalized view of female, black, nor athletic women though. Just her. She's u-g-l-y without an alibi.

She is not Ugly...

You like both men & women but within your personal taste you still have a TYPE that you prefer, you dont find Serena attractive because she is not your type. This makes her unappealing to YOU.

Please try not to generalise Dan, your usually more astute when you post even when your trying to be funny.

I have never understood the push and pull with morality on this site. Why do you feel the need to exert your will on someone? It's neither of y'alls job to convince the other to believe in your theories, so why is it so important? Leave the man be. If he thinks she is ugly, it doesnt affect you. In any way. Whatsoever. Stop emotionally investing in threads on Prince.org - especially when it involves you tryna critique someone's behavior when you should just be mindful of your own.

This thread needs some theme music..

Graham Central Station - Hair

armpit said:

SCNDLS said:

Where did I bitch slap Ace?

ALL of my comments have been about MY feelings/opinions about white folks, in general not just Ace, asking these kinda questions. So I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[Edited 4/9/11 11:29am]

Okay, I think it's understood that you don't like these questions and don't like answering them.

We completely get you on that one. You've expressed it more than once, we've read it, we understand.

So now it's a matter of everybody else who doesn't have a problem with the subject, going forward from here on out.

And Purplestar - sure, at the end of the day, hair is hair and everybody has the right to do with it what they want, absolutely. But in the black community, it's wayyy more than 'just hair' - it's a pretty loaded subject, which really this thread is proving . And a lot of times in the AA community, if you don't straighten your hair, you get grief because of it and made to feel like you don't have the right to do what you want with your hair.

Hold up, no disrespect, but if you know that the situation is "much deeper within the black community" for obvious, historical reasons, then you should at least understand where Scndls, paintedlady and StillGotit were coming from. That situation does not justify the actions of others outside of that community who come to these type threads to bait, threadjack or attack orgers they have had personal issues with specific orgers in other forums. It's usually the same orgers popping up on these type threads regarding "Black culture/lifesyles, etc.", that don't go into these threads because they have a sincere or honest interest in Black culture.

I do understand why Scndls, StillGotit and Paintedlady, made the comments they did, by expressing their true feelings about the topic, because some of the reactions/questions/comments from others, are nothing short of the ugliness they've seen on this site in the past, regarding topics related to this one. Now Ace may have innocently asked the question, and others sincerely posted their knowledge on it, but again, there are some orgers who jump on these threads and use it to bait those they don't like personally. It is sad that these type topics can never be discussed with respect, and others use it for other intentions. Just my two cents.

[Edited 4/9/11 18:56pm]

Maytiana said:

In a way I understand how black women could get upset over discussions like this because they are seen as doing things wrong when every other race does the same exact thing.

I think there's this idea that women who don't wear natural hair are trying to be something they are not. And when they are questioned why they don't wear their own styes they defend their actions. I know this because I get accused of trying to be blonde when i'm filipina. I like my wavy hair but I just feel better and accepted when I straighten it. It's okay to wear your hair the way you want. Some people aren't pressured they just like their hair in a different style.

Very good point Maytiana, and it's a shame that as young as you are, you can see that more clearly than some that are "much" older than you. I hear you about your situation. I see the same thing happening with some hispanic women who dye their hair blonde. I will be honest, I have questioned that myself, because I believe that is due to society's conditioning of what is standard beauty, especially in America. It's the blonde vs brunette;light-skinned vs dark-skinned;straight hair vs curly/wavy/kinky/nappy hair, etc., syndrome.

I think much of the stereotypical thinking like that is due to historical prejudices, and this country still isn't over that. Many still lack education about various cultures, and you have many ethnic groups that come to this country feeling forced to give up part of their traditional look/customs and become more "Americanized" or "European.". I do find that many African (not African-American) are becoming more "European-ized" so-to-speak, when I watch some of their soap operas/cultural shows about various African ethnic groups. Mostly the African actresses. I see this within those of Hispanic/Central/South American descent. Tough subject, that often brings in sensitive feelings, but I can understand why many women, including African-American, get tired of the "questions" and defensive feelings roll in, because often it feels like by now in 2011, you would think more Americans would be more educated about the various cultures/lifestyles/hairdos, we see when we walk the streets of America and the people we pass everyday in the streets. It's not like the people we see on American streets, just arrived here, many of them descended from groups that have been in America, just prior to America becoming America and thereafter, yet many Americans still lack the cultural education about them. I guess many of us still have a lot to learn.

What's that old saying? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. With that being said, one person's definition of beauty is not the final say, and never will be, because at the end of the day, what one doesn't define as beauty, another will. Women can do whatever they choose with their hair, skin, clothes, etc., no matter what racial background/ethnic group they are from or someone else's opinion about it. It's their personal choice and they do not have to answer to anyone about it, as long as they are not breaking any laws.

[Edited 4/9/11 15:30pm]

morningsong said:

I was tempted to post the links of several org threads over the past couple of years where many different black women here have discussed various issues about hair freely and openly. It isn't an unusual subject around the org for anyone that is interested. It always comes out the same, no group of people march to the same drum, especially when they have several options to chose from, it's not that complicated.

Considering the fact that this is truthful and makes sense it will no doubt be completely ignored. So I'm going to quote it. Maybe four of five times.

Shyra said:

SagsWay2low said:

I don't see many black Americans or Europeans here in Thailand. I only see black African women here, and they are few and far between.

Non of them wear their hair natural. They are all relaxed, etc. I've seen several with 'good hair' as well.

But, I'm confused as to wear they're getting their hair did. It's not like you can walk into any salon in Thailand and get black hair worked on. Add a layer of racism on top of that, I'd I applaud any African woman here who manages to do herself up.

I think more African role models and figures should go natural though. Not because I don't think black women should have the option to relax their hair, but just because I don't think black girls should feel pressured to do so or to think they're lesser for not having 'good hair'.

Being here and watching Asians have surgery to remove their epicanthic eye-folds makes me realize just how dangerous the fashion industry and media can be.

Dear heart. Work on taking that expression out of your vocabulary. There is no such thing as "good hair." If you need to differentiate, use "straight hair." I am a black woman with straight hair, but it irks me to hear people say "good" because it connotes an opposite, such as "bad" hair.

That's why he put it in quotes....

Tried natural....didn't work at all.

armpit said:

SCNDLS said:

Well, if you read and understood my point why did you keep pressing me about it? It's not like I was just hammering away at it for no reason. I stated my opinion, and you kept pressing me and making incorrect assumptions about what I was saying so I had to keep reiterating my point to clarify. So, please don't try to insinuate I'm just here trying to bash Ace cuz I have not done that. Alright?

Who kept pressing you?

It went kinda like this :

Ace : I have some questions about black ladies and their hair.

You : I'M SICK OF ANSWERING THESE FUCKING QUESTIONS! WE'RE NOT APES! *stomps away*

Me : It was an innocent question. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, either.

You : WHITE PEOPLE ASK ME THIS SHIT ALL THE TIME!

Me : You don't have to answer it. Some of us don't mind and we will, if you don't want to that's fine, you can always leave the thread. You're jumping on him for asking harmless questions that no one is forcing you to answer.

You : I DIDN'T JUMP ON ANYONE! I'M SICK OF THESE DUMBASS QUESTIONS!

Me : *blank stare* I get that. We heard you.

You : YOU KEEP PRESSING ME ABOUT IT! WHY IS THAAAAAT?!!

Me : *headdesk*

This is so spot on, it's uncanny. I couldn't put it nearly as succinctly.

It made me giggle, but it's not funny really. When I see someone I like and respect have a very different take on things to me I have to at least note the gap there and question why, but I do see a fair bit in this thread of what you captured in that dialogue above. I think maybe I'm not fully clued up on the whole 'org context' in which this thread finds itself. It seems like it's not really about this thread at all.

Cerebus said:

morningsong said:

I was tempted to post the links of several org threads over the past couple of years where many different black women here have discussed various issues about hair freely and openly. It isn't an unusual subject around the org for anyone that is interested. It always comes out the same, no group of people march to the same drum, especially when they have several options to chose from, it's not that complicated.

Considering the fact that this is truthful and makes sense it will no doubt be completely ignored. So I'm going to quote it. Maybe four of five times.

I like morningsong's post... it makes an excellent point.

This is why I came in the thread, talking about hair is fine... but its girl's talk mostly, and if Ace has a curiosity I don't mind answering and partaking in these threads because many young folks can see these types of threads and learn something new.

But here is the problem... these types of quetsions are actually considered rude to ask in the first place.

Dude really? Why you asking this if you already know its rude. See ... Sagsway2low said he KNEW the thread would go this way... and so did others...

WHY did they already know this? Its because its a taboo thing to ask (coming from a white man) but still if people choose to let him know

"dude why the hell are you asking that?"

she is an automatic bitch and overly sensitive and rude towards white people.

I don't mind answering questions to curious people.... but I am doing that DESPITE the fact that the question is a controversial one to ask in the first place. Like I said before... when you throw race into it... its a slippery slope because YOU WILL OFFEND SOME PEOPLE.

This is EXACTLY why many white folks tread carefully in these situations and know to expect the worse.... they already know its a messed up thing to do, but yet.... Ace did it anyways.

Ace is not the problem... Ace just asked a question, that's OK by me... but

if its not OK by another orger then why is she "pathetic"?

Asking the controversial question was NOT the problem... you answer or you don't...

The sense of entitlement that ANY question asked SHOULD be answered is just wrong.

Hell, if I ask a white person... "How do white people wash their hair?" not every white person will respond to me nicely... if they don't that's MY fault for asking the dumb question in the first place..

it goes with the territory.

So there is no need to be so sensitive if somepeople react negatively to a question that can be seen as bait.

There are people saying that women of african descent are sensitive about hair....well hate to burst folks bubble but this is not our issue. We never had an "issue", it was the issue of those who dont see us as equal, and tried their best to convince persons of african descent that they were/are not equal.

I dont know of any other race of women that had to sue, in a court of law for the right to wear the hair they were born with the way they themselves saw fit. (And this wasn't a million years ago, this is as recent as the late 80's and 90s.) Hell...black persons natural hair still draws gasps. White people still will touch a young black child's hair without invitation to see what it feels like.

So, after all that oppression, brainwashing and non accepting bullshit, now white folks suddenly dont know to leave well enough alone. Folk are now curious about black hair, that alien anomoly that they simply have to look at periodically?

Puh leez.

People of african descent are not oversensitive. They are reacting to the shit that has been said of them and done to them. The problem is and has always been the attitude of non black people....

STOP MAKING BULLSHIT GENERAL COMMENTS THAT STEREOTYPE AND SEPERATE PEOPLE! Damn it. There is no ALL. There is no EVERYONE. We are NOT all the SAME and we have NOT all wronged you. Get over it.

Cerebus said:

STOP MAKING BULLSHIT GENERAL COMMENTS THAT STEREOTYPE AND SEPERATE PEOPLE! Damn it. There is no ALL. There is no EVERYONE. We are NOT all the SAME and we have NOT all wronged you. Get over it.

bullshit general comments? Oh...recent history, caselaw and civil rights are bull shit? Since you think that is bullshit, you are llikely part of the problematic group that I take issue with.

Oh.....and I claim that "you" have all wronged me? you dont know me...for real...you dont, and if you knew who you were talking to, you would bite your tongue and pause for a second cuz you are sounding mighty clueless. I cannot seperate people, and I cannot be seperated from people.

I never said "you" are all the same. I never typed "all" or "everyone,." I was specific. I said "those who dont see us as equal. Why does it bother you? Are you one of the non black people in that category?

As for the "get over it part of your post"... get over wanting to know shit that is none of your business and accept people the way they are without question. And if you were alive when all that shit was going down and didn't speak against it, you ARE part of the problem.

StillGotIt said:

Cerebus said:

STOP MAKING BULLSHIT GENERAL COMMENTS THAT STEREOTYPE AND SEPERATE PEOPLE! Damn it. There is no ALL. There is no EVERYONE. We are NOT all the SAME and we have NOT all wronged you. Get over it.

bullshit general comments? Oh...recent history, caselaw and civil rights are bull shit? Since you think that is bullshit, you are llikely part of the problematic group that I take issue with.

Oh.....and I claim that "you" have all wronged me? you dont know me...for real...you dont, and if you knew who you were talking to, you would bite your tongue and pause for a second cuz you are sounding mighty clueless. I cannot seperate people, and I cannot be seperated from people.

I never said "you" are all the same. I never typed "all" or "everyone,." I was specific. I said "those who dont see us as equal. Why does it bother you? Are you one of the non black people in that category?

As for the "get over it part of your post"... get over wanting to know shit that is none of your business and accept people the way they are without question. And if you were alive when all that shit was going down and didn't speak against it, you ARE part of the problem.

YOU are the problem. Until you, and others like you figure that out NOTHING will ever change.

Yes, bullshit general comments. I'm not talking about the history of civil rights, something that I'm very much familiar with, by the way. I'm talking about how you make it sound like ALL "white folks" are just walking around on the street accosting you on a daily basis. If you cannot seperate a PERSON from PEOPLE then, once again, its YOU that has a problem, not me.

I'm part of what problematic group that you take issue with? The "white folks" group? Please. How about you read some of my posts and get back to me on that one. Because you won't be able to find a comment where I marginalize or stereotype ANY race, creed, color or preference. I can't say the same for you and some of the other people who have posted in this thread.

YOU said, "white folks" TWICE as a general all encompassing term in your first comment. There was no seperation of any one person from another, just "white folks". There was no "some", or "sometimes", or "I've seen this happen before". And its not even close to the first time its happened in this thread. Let me start up a thread talkin' about "black folks" as stereotypes and we'll see how friendly people are with their responses.

YOU, in this VERY QUOTE are accusing ME, a person YOU know nothing about of being one of those general "white folks" that so clearly offend you. Something which you absolutely no grounds for. Period.

And for the record, I have never touched ANYBODIES hair in public, of any age, or any race, ever! Because that would be incredibly RUDE. Not racist. RUDE.

Me get over what? Once AGAIN, you don't know ANYTHING about me. Not my past, my present, my family or my friends. You have no idea what I'm about. But you're so filled with anger and hatred, evidently towards "white folks", that you're willing to out yourself in that regard on a public forum. If you're going to walk that path you're going to have to deal with the response.

Lock? Why, because you said some stuff you don't want to have to deal with anymore?

[img:$uid]http://i54.tinypic.com/ojgoif.gif[/img:$uid]

Shit is getting real in this thread,

You wrote so much that I never said based on your interpretation of my words... I guess you think that you are reading between the lines. I will not address your assumptions, it's useless as you will no doubt continue to twist and turn, and come up with additional assumptions mixed with some truth. Are you suffering from deep seated guilt over past actions or worse---inactions?

I never ran from responding. I often enjoy spirited discussions with the ignorant. I am not seperating anybody from anybody.....people are already seperated, and it was people who oppressed that created the chasm. Your momentary kumbaya idealism will not change that. Your world is simply not the same as the one many others live in. People still worry about their hair being too ethnic when they interview. That is not a stereotype, its a reality.

You say that you are aware of civil rights history? Well then, you must know that what happened in the past is not in the past, it gave light to more issues, and also gave rights to fight about old issues that just wont go away. Hence, the lawsuits about womens hair and black men's beards...oh wait...but that didn't affect you, did it...so its all bullshit and we need to get over it because you didn't personally discriminate. Did you petition others to support the law to allow us to wear our hair and shave our beards the way that we see fit? (rhetorical question)

There is shit still going on to this day, civil rights is not a past thing you learn about, its a life you live, but then again you wouldn't necessarily know that.....learning about the history of the civil rights movement and living it in present day are not the same.

You are right....I dont know you or your people. And based on your rant, I have no desire to change that. For the record, whether you acknowledge it or not, if you are not black, you are reaping the benefit of those who came before you, at the expense of those who do not resemble you. Thats not hatred, thats just the way it is. Does that make you responsible for shit being done today? That's between you and your maker.

There is a saying I've heard: "Do not argue with fools. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Hence, I mentioned the lock because you are simply not worth the power it takes to keep my computer turned on.

StillGotIt said:

You wrote so much that I never said based on your interpretation of my words... I guess you think that you are reading between the lines. I will not address your assumptions, it's useless as you will no doubt continue to twist and turn, and come up with additional assumptions mixed with some truth. Are you suffering from deep seated guilt over past actions or worse---inactions?

I never ran from responding. I often enjoy spirited discussions with the ignorant. I am not seperating anybody from anybody.....people are already seperated, and it was people who oppressed that created the chasm. Your momentary kumbaya idealism will not change that. Your world is simply not the same as the one many others live in. People still worry about their hair being too ethnic when they interview. That is not a stereotype, its a reality.

You say that you are aware of civil rights history? Well then, you must know that what happened in the past is not in the past, it gave light to more issues, and also gave rights to fight about old issues that just wont go away. Hence, the lawsuits about womens hair and black men's beards...oh wait...but that didn't affect you, did it...so its all bullshit and we need to get over it because you didn't personally discriminate. Did you petition others to support the law to allow us to wear our hair and shave our beards the way that we see fit? (rhetorical question)

There is shit still going on to this day, civil rights is not a past thing you learn about, its a life you live, but then again you wouldn't necessarily know that.....learning about the history of the civil rights movement and living it in present day are not the same.

You are right....I dont know you or your people. And based on your rant, I have no desire to change that. For the record, whether you acknowledge it or not, if you are not black, you are reaping the benefit of those who came before you, at the expense of those who do not resemble you. Thats not hatred, thats just the way it is. Does that make you responsible for shit being done today? That's between you and your maker.

There is a saying I've heard: "Do not argue with fools. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Hence, I mentioned the lock because you are simply not worth the power it takes to keep my computer turned on.

Oh shut the fuck up. The OP was asking a simple question and plenty people were willing to give simple answers. Keep your baggage to yourself.

StillGotIt said:

You wrote so much that I never said based on your interpretation of my words... I guess you think that you are reading between the lines. I will not address your assumptions, it's useless as you will no doubt continue to twist and turn, and come up with additional assumptions mixed with some truth. Are you suffering from deep seated guilt over past actions or worse---inactions?

I never ran from responding. I often enjoy spirited discussions with the ignorant. I am not seperating anybody from anybody.....people are already seperated, and it was people who oppressed that created the chasm. Your momentary kumbaya idealism will not change that. Your world is simply not the same as the one many others live in. People still worry about their hair being too ethnic when they interview. That is not a stereotype, its a reality.

You say that you are aware of civil rights history? Well then, you must know that what happened in the past is not in the past, it gave light to more issues, and also gave rights to fight about old issues that just wont go away. Hence, the lawsuits about womens hair and black men's beards...oh wait...but that didn't affect you, did it...so its all bullshit and we need to get over it because you didn't personally discriminate. Did you petition others to support the law to allow us to wear our hair and shave our beards the way that we see fit? (rhetorical question)

There is shit still going on to this day, civil rights is not a past thing you learn about, its a life you live, but then again you wouldn't necessarily know that.....learning about the history of the civil rights movement and living it in present day are not the same.

You are right....I dont know you or your people. And based on your rant, I have no desire to change that. For the record, whether you acknowledge it or not, if you are not black, you are reaping the benefit of those who came before you, at the expense of those who do not resemble you. Thats not hatred, thats just the way it is. Does that make you responsible for shit being done today? That's between you and your maker.

There is a saying I've heard: "Do not argue with fools. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Hence, I mentioned the lock because you are simply not worth the power it takes to keep my computer turned on.

Clueless, dismissive, hateful, obtuse and just downright wrong.

Are you truly so unaware as to not understand what you wrote? I read between no lines. What you said is right there for all to see, and it reads quite clear.

You haven't attempted to have any kind of a conversation. No, you just continue to make up completely nonsensical issues that you seem to think are some kind of diagnosis of my character. You appear to believe that you've made some sort of deeply intelligent comments or points that are going to succeed in outing me or pushing my buttons. Nothing could be further from the truth. All you've done is made me feel even more sadness that someone could live with so much misplaced hate. Like I said, read up on what I write around here before you go making accusations.

You also continue to repeatedly assume that you know ANYTHING about me and "my world" when, to put it plainly, you don't know shit.

You've also personally and directly attacked me and disparaged my character in the guise of intelligent conversation so many times that I lost count. I made points. I brought up real thoughts about real issues. All you've done is try to convince me that its OK for you to be a racist. So please, by all means, make the world a better place and turn off your computer.

I would kill for some (natural) curls...

As a mixed individual, I would be happy to serve as a proxy to the genuinely curious white folks that have questions related to black people. Send that shit my way and I'll post the questions that white people are forbidden to ask. There we go. The peace has been kept.

Ace said:

How many of you wear your hair "au naturel" (i.e. no weaving, lace-fronts-or-other wigs or straightening)?

I ask because, from what I read, it seems like black women who don't do any of these things are in the vast minority. Is this accurate?

It seems like so much work! I get tired just thinking about it!

Neophyte said:

Ace said:

How many of you wear your hair "au naturel" (i.e. no weaving, lace-fronts-or-other wigs or straightening)?

I ask because, from what I read, it seems like black women who don't do any of these things are in the vast minority. Is this accurate?

It seems like so much work! I get tired just thinking about it!

What is it that you are reading that has made you so curious?

The bible. Ebony. Jet. Rolling Stone. Who cares?

Spinlight said:

Neophyte said:

What is it that you are reading that has made you so curious?

The bible. Ebony. Jet. Rolling Stone. Who cares?

Who cares?

Obviously I do otherwise I would not have asked.

StillGotIt said:

You wrote so much that I never said based on your interpretation of my words... I guess you think that you are reading between the lines. I will not address your assumptions, it's useless as you will no doubt continue to twist and turn, and come up with additional assumptions mixed with some truth. Are you suffering from deep seated guilt over past actions or worse---inactions?

I never ran from responding. I often enjoy spirited discussions with the ignorant. I am not seperating anybody from anybody.....people are already seperated, and it was people who oppressed that created the chasm. Your momentary kumbaya idealism will not change that. Your world is simply not the same as the one many others live in. People still worry about their hair being too ethnic when they interview. That is not a stereotype, its a reality.

You say that you are aware of civil rights history? Well then, you must know that what happened in the past is not in the past, it gave light to more issues, and also gave rights to fight about old issues that just wont go away. Hence, the lawsuits about womens hair and black men's beards...oh wait...but that didn't affect you, did it...so its all bullshit and we need to get over it because you didn't personally discriminate. Did you petition others to support the law to allow us to wear our hair and shave our beards the way that we see fit? (rhetorical question)

There is shit still going on to this day, civil rights is not a past thing you learn about, its a life you live, but then again you wouldn't necessarily know that.....learning about the history of the civil rights movement and living it in present day are not the same.

You are right....I dont know you or your people. And based on your rant, I have no desire to change that. For the record, whether you acknowledge it or not, if you are not black, you are reaping the benefit of those who came before you, at the expense of those who do not resemble you. Thats not hatred, thats just the way it is. Does that make you responsible for shit being done today? That's between you and your maker.

There is a saying I've heard: "Do not argue with fools. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Hence, I mentioned the lock because you are simply not worth the power it takes to keep my computer turned on.

You've made very good points StillGotIt, and I have to commend you for not letting the typical org bullies stop you from expressing your views on this. Some are getting angry at what you're saying because you're telling truths they can't seem to handle or are not trying to "understand".

I have to say you're right about it being "others' issue" and not specifically that of Black women. If I stated it was an "issue" in the Black community in my previous thread, then stand corrected. I do remember the cases of Black women getting fired from their jobs or threatened they'll be fired for wearing their hair in "natural" styles. All based on someone else's prejudice or disrepect to their culture.

I remember when women with afros seeking employment were told to "straighten" their hair. Women who wore their hair in braids were told it was "too ethnic" or "militant.". These are many documented cases of this.

Surprising when the movie "10" came out with White actress Bo Derek, wearing an African-braided hairstyle, and suddenly that African hairdo was accepted by many non-blacks. Surprising? Absolutely not. It seems many non-blacks received their education about thatAfrican or Black-American, related natural hairstyles when this movie came out. Pathetic. This type of situation wasn't/isn't isolated to Blacks, the same things happened to Native Americans when they were forced to dress and cut their hair to appear more "European", and were banned from wearing their hair in their traditional, ethnic group's style.

It was a matter of disrespecting another's culture while being forced to embrace that of the "majority". It seems the lack of education, disrespect towards black culture and ignorance, still seems to be a problem in this country, especially judging by some of the responses, and lack of respect, comprehension, some displaying in reaction to your post. If they were really interested in "learning" about it, some would not have reacted this way, but like I said before, some jump on these threads with no real, sincere interest in the topic, other than to bully or bringitheir own undercover prejudices. I applaud you for stance and input on this topic.

I'm sure, like me, there are many ghost readers of this thread that would love to engage in this discussion further but just feel like it's going to go in circles. There's an inherent deep seated emotional connection to certain "issues" that just inevitably seem to push some people, (of any race/creed) over the edge.

I have a very good amount of respect for some of the people who have posted on both sides of this debate/discussion/argument. While I do think some of the venom has been misplaced, at risk of sounding like a Dr. Phil wannabe, I'd like to try to stir the boat in a different direction by putting somethng else out there.

If I'm being honest, after reading everything in here, I'm not so sure the hair component of the question is what has got certain people upset. It seems to be more a question of the propriety of a white person asking something about certain customs/characterisitics of black people. I very rarely enter these discussion here. Mostly because this is Prince.org and it's not what I look to talk about when I come to this site. I tried this once before and my simple questions/comparisons to the plight of others went over like a lead balloon.

I've said before my ex-wife happened to be black. That's nothing to be proud or ashamed of. We were two people who fell in love that just happened to be of different colors. I learned a lot about the black community from her, (including the "culture" of hair). There were many others aspects, far more important than hair I learned from her, but that's a story for another day. The one thing I will say is that no matter how educated/enlightened you think you are on a subject, your eyes do open up a great deal when you go to a community and still see evidence of the racial divisions from the past. As a white person, you can understand very quickly why some issues are still very sensitive.

Now - why do I say all this? Well, at risk of being ignored or (even worse) having pot shots taken at me for daring to trivialize the plight of one by comparing it to another, I'll have a go at where my head/heart take me on threads of this nature. (Sorry if that sounds cheesy).

My girlfriend now happens to be Jewish. Just like in my previous relationship, I am learning new things about a different group of people that I've never had the experience to know before. One of the customs I have become most intimately familiar with is Shabbat. At the highest level, it's pretty straight forward. Every Friday night, she and her family get together, say prayers and have dinner together. There's far more to it than that, but suffice to say, I attend almost every one and have learned to say some of the prayers. Mind you, I am not remotely interested in converting, I just think she and her family are beautiful people and it's a respectful thing to do.

Over the course of our relationship, I have asked a number of prodding questions. Perhaps the most simple would be something like, "As you've gotten older, do you view Friday's Shabbat as more an obligation or something that continues to bind your family together"?

She never for a second thought my question (or any of my questions) are rooted with any secondary designs. They are just questions aimed at trying to learn something new about someone who has different experiences than your own. Is that not a fair question to ask? Or as some have suggested/insinuated, is this the type of question that is only fair to ask of someone you know?

I guess, in the hopes of reaching anyone who has been frustrated by this thread, I'll ask my question in a more specific way. If I were to create a thread out here asking the following:

People of Jewish faith: As you grow older do you view Shabbat as more of an obligation or something that keeps you connected to your family?

Should people of Jewish heritage take great offense at my posing this question to them? Is this only something I should ask of someone I know? Why does/could/should this question offend? I think most would acknowledge Jewish people have been (and continue to be) persecuted throughout most of history. And just like the black community, there are still very strong signs of how that persecution has impacted them today.

Does the dividng line on where something becomes inappropriate stem from the race of the person asking the question or the proximity to the people they are asking it of/to? I really don't understand.

I imagine not many folks will read this entire post. I am very sorry for its' length. But I do hope it leads to some thought from those who are troubled by those of us that would naturally ask questions of our fellow human beings on this planet who come from different walks of life.

JOYJOY said:

SagsWay2low said:

I agree that many female atheletes are built like that. My statement wasn't meant to be a generalized view of female, black, nor athletic women though. Just her. She's u-g-l-y without an alibi.

She is not Ugly...

You like both men & women but within your personal taste you still have a TYPE that you prefer, you dont find Serena attractive because she is not your type. This makes her unappealing to YOU.

Please try not to generalise Dan, your usually more astute when you post even when your trying to be funny.

ok ok.

I'll rephrase this. "In my opinion, and given my own personal tastes, I think she looks like the Sorlock pit in Return of the Jedi."

Neophyte said:

Ace said:

How many of you wear your hair "au naturel" (i.e. no weaving, lace-fronts-or-other wigs or straightening)?

I ask because, from what I read, it seems like black women who don't do any of these things are in the vast minority. Is this accurate?

It seems like so much work! I get tired just thinking about it!

What is it that you are reading that has made you so curious?

Actually the poster getitng "tired" thinking about women of African descent getting various things done to their hair, actually makes no sense, because when it comes down to it, to be honest, he should feel that way about all women who choose to go outside of their "natural" 'dos, and get various processes done to their hair. That includes everything from wearing their hair natural, to perms, hair coloring, flat-iron, hot-comb pressing, blow drying, wash and set, curly perms, etc. Those processes or haircare techniques, are not isolated among Black women. It's just particularly strange that he singled out women of African descent, when it's women from all race/ethnic groups, that use various techniquest for haircare, and the fact that no two women have the same hair texture.