2elijah said:

Efan said:

It was very good post, but I honestly don't understand how white people are supposed to be more educated about black culture without asking any questions.

Absolutely nothing wrong with asking, but like I stated on another post, I think because of posts of the past where threads of this nature have surfaced, you unfortunately get those who take advantage of the opportunity to bait/troll, throw in racist mockery, and what happens? The entire thread goes in another direction. Ace may have been innocent in his questioning, but I think if he actually frequented any hair salon where women are getting their hair done, he will see what he asked about women of African descent, and the hair techniques they use to manage their hair, is not isolated to many other women from various race groups, who go through various techniques in managing their hair, and how they choose to wear it. It's just that all women have different hair textures, and they take care of their hair in many different ways.

Also I think someone else said it in a post somewhere in the mess of pages that had been posted..if you are that curious, try getting to know some black people outside of the web - obviously the can't answer for everyone but it's a start. The web is good for a whole load of things but it is really hard to judge peoples intent (good or bad) in a three line post.

[Edited 4/10/11 9:55am]

Okay, I'll stick my two cents in. The first thing I ever hear when someone white wants to adopt a black baby is that "they don't know how to do black hair." That's a funny comment to make because I thought all black people didn't have the same hair texture??

That's what I read on here and that's what I see in person. The Somolians around here have straighter hair than my white mother. But if someone inquires about black hair (like the OP) they're accused of being racist, or insensitive, or treating Blacks like they are gorillas in the mist or aliens. Some of us are just curious. All of my favorite artists are black women mostly and when I was a kid I was always curious about their hair. I had just never seen anything like that in real life. I live in Maine for God's sake! Like someone else said, people are curious about things that are different from them. I was always curious to know what it would be like to have green eyes like my sister too.

But, I would NEVER touch a black person's hair just to see what it feels like. Who the fuck would do that??? I am curious though because I don't know what it feels like. I just know my own silky hair.

Fauxie said:

Lammastide said:

I feel you. But segregation is sometimes a two-way thing. Ace, for example, hasn't locked himself away, making cultural assumptions or reading some sketchy mess on the internet and going out thinking he's an expert on Black folk. He actually asked Black folk with whom he interacts almost daily and whose first-hand insight he apparently respects -- us. and since we represent Black folk from literally all over the world, what better representation of our diversity could he tap? If we're offended by simply being asked respectfully about a part of our culture(s), then what?

[Edited 4/9/11 12:20pm]

Missed this post before. I've got to say it makes a lot of sense. And in the spirit of Lammastide's words the thread seems to be back on track again.

Actually, I think it was always on track. I think dismissing the actual alternate views/reactions of those who live that actual experience the poster questioned, is not really embracing or respecting the facts/truths from the actual sources, just because not everyone who are part of that source gave a "sweet" response.

Dismissing or partially accepting, when the ego takes over, only leads to accepting one-sided opinions or shall we say embracing what "one only wants to hear", yet at the same time, quickly embracing the opinions of those who have no actual knowledge/experience on the matter, and making excuses for their ignorance or innocence of the questioning.

It is true that if you want to learn something specific of a culture, you should go to the "source" so-to-speak, but at the same time, always expect that you will get "various" reactions when you do, and they will not always be "sweet" or what you expect. Which is why you should go into questioning, with your interests/curiosities with an "open mind" and leave the "ego" on the shelf.

Neophyte said:

2elijah said:

Absolutely nothing wrong with asking, but like I stated on another post, I think because of posts of the past where threads of this nature have surfaced, you unfortunately get those who take advantage of the opportunity to bait/troll, throw in racist mockery, and what happens? The entire thread goes in another direction. Ace may have been innocent in his questioning, but I think if he actually frequented any hair salon where women are getting their hair done, he will see what he asked about women of African descent, and the hair techniques they use to manage their hair, is not isolated to many other women from various race groups, who go through various techniques in managing their hair, and how they choose to wear it. It's just that all women have different hair textures, and they take care of their hair in many different ways.

Also I think someone else said it in a post somewhere in the mess of pages that had been posted..if you are that curious, try getting to know some black people outside of the web - obviously the can't answer for everyone but it's a start. The web is good for a whole load of things but it is really hard to judge peoples intent (good or bad) in a three line post.

[Edited 4/10/11 9:55am]

Absolutely agree. If you want to learn about a culture/ethnic group, do llike many anthropologists do. Go into that community with an "open mind" and speak to various people within that community, and interact with them directly about various cultures they practice within that group. I often think that many people forget that Blacks come from various communities/ethnic groups, and they don't all practice the same exact customs/live the same lifestyles. Another thing is that many, will use just "one experience" or contact they had with someone outside their group or a comment "they heard" from others in that group, and use that as "the final stamp" for the way all people from that particular group, think, live, eat or breathe. That's not educating oneself about them, that's being ignorant.

[Edited 4/10/11 10:27am]

eye work with alot of afican women & eye do mean alot & they all wear wigs!!!

StillGotIt said:

It's funny that u mention that...we are a family of four and our hair textures vary. However, like families of any race, there is still a commonality in how we care for our hair. I won't lie, usually if I see a nonwhite who has adopted a black female child, her hair is usually fried and totally fucked up if it hasnt yet been totally cut off and the end result is usually that child wishing she had white hair It is very fucked up when people touch your children. Sometimes it's obvious..I remember this one parent who touched my daughters pom poms upon greeting her. He then said oh...it's so soft. He never greeted any of the other children by touching their hair or any other part of them. He also didn't have a touch relationship with us. He then started asking hair questions.....moments like that are wht makes black people not allow their children to go to the homes of whites. I wish it were a rare occurrence. There were also many times when people would be nice enough to ask before touching her hair. My little girl has a lot of hair that draws massive attention [Edited 4/10/11 11:33am]

Black hair, esp black women's hair, is almost a political issue. I have twin sons that are almost 3. One of them was born with so much hair that I had to keep it in cornrows. I remember being out a a restaurant and a an older white woman remarking how pretty his hair was and then reaching out to touch it...then she seemed to realize what she was doing and quickly removed her hand. I just laughed because I'm so over it now. In my yonger years, she would have gotten a piece of my mind.

Most of my family is locked now. My mom has locks, my husband has locks, and my two little twins now have locks. If only I could convince my 21yr old daughter, who is always broke but manages to have a different weave every other week, to lock her hair....

Efan said:

This thread...wow.

Ace is one of the best guys on the org, and he asked a couple honest and polite questions. The negative reaction seems very unfair.

I 100% agree.

There are people on the org who ask questions simply as bait and Ace is not one of those people.

To address one of 2elijah's points, I do not think this is a question that could be addressed to all women. Women of other races have the luxury of being able to wear their hair in its natural state without their being any issues attached to it. I have had the luxury of being able to wear my hair any way I want to work whether it be natural or braids or whatever but I do also emphathize with black women who have been discriminated against because they have not been able to do the same.

In my opinion, Ace does not have to make friends with black people so that he can ask them personally about their hair. We would not suggest that black people go out and make friends with white people so that they can ask them various questions. I do not understand that about this so-called conversation. I rather Ace ask those who would have no problem here answering his questions, which I think he asked with a genuine curiosity and not from a bad place.

Also in my opinion, I think some of the responses in this thread come from a place of defense where some of the respondents feel as if they can wear their hair however the hell they feel like it, which is also true, but I don't understand the need to attempt the de-rail the thread. Sure, we all are free to respond to any thread but we are also free not to respond.

I, as a black woman, get looks and stupid ass comments from other black people when I wear my hair in its natural state. I think some of us have some issues and have bought into Euro-centric ideas of beauty. too bad another chance has been ruined to discuss that aspect of all this.

2elijah said:

Neophyte said:

Also I think someone else said it in a post somewhere in the mess of pages that had been posted..if you are that curious, try getting to know some black people outside of the web - obviously the can't answer for everyone but it's a start. The web is good for a whole load of things but it is really hard to judge peoples intent (good or bad) in a three line post.

[Edited 4/10/11 9:55am]

Absolutely agree. If you want to learn about a culture/ethnic group, do llike many anthropologists do. Go into that community with an "open mind" and speak to various people within that community, and interact with them directly about various cultures they practice within that group. I often think that many people forget that Blacks come from various communities/ethnic groups, and they don't all practice the same exact customs/live the same lifestyles. Another thing is that many, will use just "one experience" or contact they had with someone outside their group or a comment "they heard" from others in that group, and use that as "the final stamp" for the way all people from that particular group, think, live, eat or breathe. That's not educating oneself about them, that's being ignorant.

[Edited 4/10/11 10:27am]

Umm, why should someone change their method of learning because YOU require them to kowtow to you? That is absurd. There is nothing wrong (I repeat, nothing) with asking questions out of curiosity and it isn't anyone else's responsibility to do YOUR homework for you. That is, before you run your mouth about a bunch of stuff that has absolutely no meaning, figure out if this person is deserving of your ire. I surely can't believe you stop everyone and say, "No! Go make black friends and ask THEM about it! Don't ask me!" That is totally out of line.

I'm sorry, but this concept that people should stick to their own is unbelievable. Surely you are aware that this is racist. And not, "Well, is it racist if the person is black?" I find, a lot of the times, that justification is made from Black to ____ racism because of how tough black people had it/have it. Unfortunately, everyone has it tough and it's not productive to respond to this with further segregation.

2elijah said:

Neophyte said:

Also I think someone else said it in a post somewhere in the mess of pages that had been posted..if you are that curious, try getting to know some black people outside of the web - obviously the can't answer for everyone but it's a start. The web is good for a whole load of things but it is really hard to judge peoples intent (good or bad) in a three line post.

[Edited 4/10/11 9:55am]

Absolutely agree. If you want to learn about a culture/ethnic group, do llike many anthropologists do. Go into that community with an "open mind" and speak to various people within that community, and interact with them directly about various cultures they practice within that group. I often think that many people forget that Blacks come from various communities/ethnic groups, and they don't all practice the same exact customs/live the same lifestyles. Another thing is that many, will use just "one experience" or contact they had with someone outside their group or a comment "they heard" from others in that group, and use that as "the final stamp" for the way all people from that particular group, think, live, eat or breathe. That's not educating oneself about them, that's being ignorant.

[Edited 4/10/11 10:27am]

In some ways, the Org is real life and many people here consider this a community. Why not ask here?

I have seen people here talk about how ignorant they feel it is to have someone of another color walk up to them and ask them about their hair. Which is it? DO we as black women not want anyone to question us about our hair or do we?

It kind of feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation to me.

I don't know....maybe because my friends are such a diverse mix or maybe because I get any different mix of questions from them because I am open to pretty much anything, I don't even blink twice about someone I consider a friend asking such a thing.

Vendetta1 said:

2elijah said:

Absolutely agree. If you want to learn about a culture/ethnic group, do llike many anthropologists do. Go into that community with an "open mind" and speak to various people within that community, and interact with them directly about various cultures they practice within that group. I often think that many people forget that Blacks come from various communities/ethnic groups, and they don't all practice the same exact customs/live the same lifestyles. Another thing is that many, will use just "one experience" or contact they had with someone outside their group or a comment "they heard" from others in that group, and use that as "the final stamp" for the way all people from that particular group, think, live, eat or breathe. That's not educating oneself about them, that's being ignorant.

[Edited 4/10/11 10:27am]

In some ways, the Org is real life and many people here consider this a community. Why not ask here?

I have seen people here talk about how ignorant they feel it is to have someone of another color walk up to them and ask them about their hair. Which is it? DO we as black women not want anyone to question us about our hair or do we?

It kind of feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation to me.

I don't know....maybe because my friends are such a diverse mix or maybe because I get any different mix of questions from them because I am open to pretty much anything, I don't even blink twice about someone I consider a friend asking such a thing.

In my post it was never implied that they couldn't. too have grown up my entire life among very diverse communities, and have always been exposed to them. I've heard the questions come from all walks of life regarding curiosities of my culture, and even from those within my culture, about my sub-culture (Caribbean), so questions like Ace's are not "foreign" to me. My point was when anyone has a curiosity about another culture, including myself, that they should expect that they will not always get the reaction they expect.

Some people have suspicions about being questioned about specific situations of their culture, while others are comfortable with responding to them and give them some education on it. We're not all going to react the same, as evident on this thread. As we don't live the same life experiences, as well as many who are not exposed within their community to various ethnic groups. Some of us are, so it isn't surprising that some may only have a stereotypical knowledge or none at all, regarding their curiosity of other groups' cultures/religion. It is best however, for anyone who has a deep interest in specific cultures/ethnic groups, to go out and do some research, and speak to people within that group, and going into those communities and getting some "hands-on" knowledge/experience and exposure. It's pretty much like how students from various countries visit others, and stay in those countries for a while meeting the people, learning their customs, lifestyles, and come away with maybe not all, but a wealth of knowledge of a/or specific group(s).

Spinlight said:

2elijah said:

Absolutely agree. If you want to learn about a culture/ethnic group, do llike many anthropologists do. Go into that community with an "open mind" and speak to various people within that community, and interact with them directly about various cultures they practice within that group. I often think that many people forget that Blacks come from various communities/ethnic groups, and they don't all practice the same exact customs/live the same lifestyles. Another thing is that many, will use just "one experience" or contact they had with someone outside their group or a comment "they heard" from others in that group, and use that as "the final stamp" for the way all people from that particular group, think, live, eat or breathe. That's not educating oneself about them, that's being ignorant.

[Edited 4/10/11 10:27am]

Umm, why should someone change their method of learning because YOU require them to kowtow to you? That is absurd. There is nothing wrong (I repeat, nothing) with asking questions out of curiosity and it isn't anyone else's responsibility to do YOUR homework for you. That is, before you run your mouth about a bunch of stuff that has absolutely no meaning, figure out if this person is deserving of your ire. I surely can't believe you stop everyone and say, "No! Go make black friends and ask THEM about it! Don't ask me!" That is totally out of line.

I'm sorry, but this concept that people should stick to their own is unbelievable. Surely you are aware that this is racist. And not, "Well, is it racist if the person is black?" I find, a lot of the times, that justification is made from Black to ____ racism because of how tough black people had it/have it. Unfortunately, everyone has it tough and it's not productive to respond to this with further segregation.

No actually I think your response is absurd, and I'm not surprised at your nasty, rude, disrespectful, bullying tactics and your constant ignorant comments towards me. I have no interest in your opinions, until you learn to treat others with the respect, you feel you deserve from others. Now how you feel about me, really doesn't matter because you don't steal a damn bit of confidence from my day, but your continued insults and discriminative behavior, especially towards females on this site, is not acceptable, so in support of those female orgers you continue to disrespect and insult, as well as some of your questionable, race-related comments, I cannot discuss anything with you.

I find it interesting and surprising, however, that you as a Gay male, can have that type of attitude, when people from the LGBT community are still fighting for respect, and to be treated as equals, among a population of "some" who don't accept or respect them as such. Yet your questionable behavior and attitude towards many female orgers on this site has been rude, disrespectful and questionable. So in support of those female orgers you continue to insult and disrespect, I can no longer insult myself by having any conversation with you, until you learn how to respect others, the same way you would like to be respected.

I'm sure you will continue with your bullying tactics, and responding to my posts, but I have no further interest in your opinions, comments on any topic here, so I will ignore you with extreme pleasure from here on in. Our conversation ends here. Have a good day.

[Edited 4/10/11 14:21pm]

2elijah said:

Spinlight said:

Umm, why should someone change their method of learning because YOU require them to kowtow to you? That is absurd. There is nothing wrong (I repeat, nothing) with asking questions out of curiosity and it isn't anyone else's responsibility to do YOUR homework for you. That is, before you run your mouth about a bunch of stuff that has absolutely no meaning, figure out if this person is deserving of your ire. I surely can't believe you stop everyone and say, "No! Go make black friends and ask THEM about it! Don't ask me!" That is totally out of line.

I'm sorry, but this concept that people should stick to their own is unbelievable. Surely you are aware that this is racist. And not, "Well, is it racist if the person is black?" I find, a lot of the times, that justification is made from Black to ____ racism because of how tough black people had it/have it. Unfortunately, everyone has it tough and it's not productive to respond to this with further segregation.

No actually I think your response is absurd, and I'm not surprised at your nasty, rude, disrespectful, bullying tactics and your constant ignorant comments towards me. I have no interest in your opinions, until you learn to treat others with the respect, you feel you deserve from others. Now how you feel about me, really doesn't matter because you don't steal a damn bit of confidence from my day, but your continued insults and discriminative behavior, especially towards females on this site, is not acceptable, so in support of those female orgers you continue to disrespect and insult, as well as some of your questionable, race-related comments, I cannot discuss anything with you.

I find it interesting and surprising, however, that you as a Gay male, can have that type of attitude, when people from the LGBT community are still fighting for respect, and to be treated as equals, among a population of "some" who don't accept or respect them as such. Yet your questionable behavior and attitude towards many female orgers on this site has been rude, disrespectful and questionable. So in support of those female orgers you continue to insult and disrespect, I can no longer insult myself by having any conversation with you, until you learn how to respect others, the same way you would like to be respected.

I'm sure you will continue with your bullying tactics, and responding to my posts, but I have no further interest in your opinions, comments on any topic here, so I will ignore you with extreme pleasure from here on in. Our conversation ends here. Have a good day.

[Edited 4/10/11 14:21pm]

You might have some people here fooled with your racist bullshit, but I don't fall for your games. I've seen you push the envelope to purposely bait people constantly. You are one of the worst of them, truly. I'm also not going to justify or repeat my words for you because if you have that much trouble reading then you are too much of a charity case - I simply don't have time for your crap.

Needless to say, you really need to stick your own neck out from amongst the crowd and open your eyes. Perhaps StillGotIt and you can undertake this journey together since you both seem to have some serious problems with white people.

2elijah said:

Spinlight said:

Umm, why should someone change their method of learning because YOU require them to kowtow to you? That is absurd. There is nothing wrong (I repeat, nothing) with asking questions out of curiosity and it isn't anyone else's responsibility to do YOUR homework for you. That is, before you run your mouth about a bunch of stuff that has absolutely no meaning, figure out if this person is deserving of your ire. I surely can't believe you stop everyone and say, "No! Go make black friends and ask THEM about it! Don't ask me!" That is totally out of line.

I'm sorry, but this concept that people should stick to their own is unbelievable. Surely you are aware that this is racist. And not, "Well, is it racist if the person is black?" I find, a lot of the times, that justification is made from Black to ____ racism because of how tough black people had it/have it. Unfortunately, everyone has it tough and it's not productive to respond to this with further segregation.

No actually I think your response is absurd, and I'm not surprised at your nasty, rude, disrespectful, bullying tactics and your constant ignorant comments towards me. I have no interest in your opinions, until you learn to treat others with the respect, you feel you deserve from others. Now how you feel about me, really doesn't matter because you don't steal a damn bit of confidence from my day, but your continued insults and discriminative behavior, especially towards females on this site, is not acceptable, so in support of those female orgers you continue to disrespect and insult, as well as some of your questionable, race-related comments, I cannot discuss anything with you.

I find it interesting and surprising, however, that you as a Gay male, can have that type of attitude, when people from the LGBT community are still fighting for respect, and to be treated as equals, among a population of "some" who don't accept or respect them as such. Yet your questionable behavior and attitude towards many female orgers on this site has been rude, disrespectful and questionable. So in support of those female orgers you continue to insult and disrespect, I can no longer insult myself by having any conversation with you, until you learn how to respect others, the same way you would like to be respected.

I'm sure you will continue with your bullying tactics, and responding to my posts, but I have no further interest in your opinions, comments on any topic here, so I will ignore you with extreme pleasure from here on in. Our conversation ends here. Have a good day.

[Edited 4/10/11 14:21pm]

On the org I think the majority of people are gay and straight people are a minority. Or it just feels that way to me.

Maytiana said:

2elijah said:

No actually I think your response is absurd, and I'm not surprised at your nasty, rude, disrespectful, bullying tactics and your constant ignorant comments towards me. I have no interest in your opinions, until you learn to treat others with the respect, you feel you deserve from others. Now how you feel about me, really doesn't matter because you don't steal a damn bit of confidence from my day, but your continued insults and discriminative behavior, especially towards females on this site, is not acceptable, so in support of those female orgers you continue to disrespect and insult, as well as some of your questionable, race-related comments, I cannot discuss anything with you.

I find it interesting and surprising, however, that you as a Gay male, can have that type of attitude, when people from the LGBT community are still fighting for respect, and to be treated as equals, among a population of "some" who don't accept or respect them as such. Yet your questionable behavior and attitude towards many female orgers on this site has been rude, disrespectful and questionable. So in support of those female orgers you continue to insult and disrespect, I can no longer insult myself by having any conversation with you, until you learn how to respect others, the same way you would like to be respected.

I'm sure you will continue with your bullying tactics, and responding to my posts, but I have no further interest in your opinions, comments on any topic here, so I will ignore you with extreme pleasure from here on in. Our conversation ends here. Have a good day.

[Edited 4/10/11 14:21pm]

On the org I think the majority of people are gay and straight people are a minority. Or it just feels that way to me.

What are you insinuating? What are you reading that would tell you that? What is that supposed to mean? How does one "feel" people are gay? Do you have a problem with gay people? How dare you mention gay people like that. Face it: If you are straight, you are benefiting from the tragedy of gays all over the country.

Spinlight said:

Maytiana said:

On the org I think the majority of people are gay and straight people are a minority. Or it just feels that way to me.

What are you insinuating? What are you reading that would tell you that? What is that supposed to mean? How does one "feel" people are gay? Do you have a problem with gay people? How dare you mention gay people like that. Face it: If you are straight, you are benefiting from the tragedy of gays all over the country.

Vendetta1 said:

Efan said:

This thread...wow.

Ace is one of the best guys on the org, and he asked a couple honest and polite questions. The negative reaction seems very unfair.

I 100% agree.

There are people on the org who ask questions simply as bait and Ace is not one of those people.

To address one of 2elijah's points, I do not think this is a question that could be addressed to all women. Women of other races have the luxury of being able to wear their hair in its natural state without their being any issues attached to it. I have had the luxury of being able to wear my hair any way I want to work whether it be natural or braids or whatever but I do also emphathize with black women who have been discriminated against because they have not been able to do the same.

In my opinion, Ace does not have to make friends with black people so that he can ask them personally about their hair. We would not suggest that black people go out and make friends with white people so that they can ask them various questions. I do not understand that about this so-called conversation. I rather Ace ask those who would have no problem here answering his questions, which I think he asked with a genuine curiosity and not from a bad place.

Also in my opinion, I think some of the responses in this thread come from a place of defense where some of the respondents feel as if they can wear their hair however the hell they feel like it, which is also true, but I don't understand the need to attempt the de-rail the thread. Sure, we all are free to respond to any thread but we are also free not to respond.

I, as a black woman, get looks and stupid ass comments from other black people when I wear my hair in its natural state. I think some of us have some issues and have bought into Euro-centric ideas of beauty. too bad another chance has been ruined to discuss that aspect of all this.

I agree with some of your post. You're absolutely correct. Ace does not have to befriend any Black female to get his "particular "question answered, but keep in mind, that he specifically asked Black women of African descent the question, and like many here have said, why not go to the source? He did, and he received various reactions. Some nice, some not so nice. That's something no one can control on a public message board, so we can either choose to ignore some individual's responses to the question or continue responding to them. It's all personal choice. I don't know Ace, and I'm not familar with his postings, so I won't judge his character or do I know the reason he asked the question.

But......perhaps you did not see my earlier post, in this thread, where I did, make a suggestion to Ace, that there really is not that much difference to the hair techniques and processes used on Black women vs non-Black women, that goes on in the haircare process or at a salon, when women in general, (regardless of race/ethnicity) are getting their hair done. How that post was missed by some, but quickly responded to the later one, is surprising to say the least.

My later post in this thread, suggesting anyone interested in doing research period, on any particular group of interest, (not necessarily on the "specific" question Ace asked) would be better served by interacting with people within a community of interest, "directly" (not by internet), i.e., by learning the various customs/lifestyles/religious beliefs if any/various foods, etc., and getting "in-your-face or hands-on" exposure to the culture of a specific group. My comments in that post, was not directed Ace's "hair" question, but in reference to anyone who is interested in further or a more deeper learning experience about various cultures/ethnic groups. Anyway, it's been an interesting topic, with varying opinions/views, despite the difference of opinions.

[Edited 4/10/11 15:24pm]

I hear you 2elijah but the point I am making is that this is a good way for Ace to get his questions answered. I dunno, perhaps after this, he will come to those of us who will answer his questions without offense.

For all of you ignoring my posts...

The person who asked the question wasn't at issue.... it could of been anybody asking that...

this issue is...

If a black women responds negatively to a question asked about her, does she always have to be nice about her response?

The answer I see from people here is.... YES. Because God forbid any black woman here be offended by any question a white person asks her....

the question was asked politely sure... but its one of those sugar coated shit type of questions that MAY bring up feelings in people. EVERY PERSON already knew that going in. Ace fucking knew it, so did Dan, Fauxie, EVERYBODY!!! But still they act as if people like SCNDLS, Stillgotit, me, & Duecy are a bunch of oversensitive racist women with an agenda. WTF? It is what it is.... I guess black people can't answer shit honestly around here because if we do we are fucking racist against white people.

Some folks here can't take it if black women aren't all sweet? WTF? Some white people here need to stop being so damned oversensitive themselves....

I also think Ace handled himself just fine earlier before all this shit turned up... I am sure he isn't crying in some corner all curled up with a blankie.

As for me... I didn't mind answering Ace.... that was not an issue for me since I saw past his loaded question, but I am not all black people, and grown fucking women here should answer as they well please to. Ace can shake it off and keep on rolling along just like we ALL do when learning new things about customs and cultures we are new to.

The women here, black or white shouldn't have to hide their true feelings on a subject. They say whay they feel and talk about it. Nothing wrong or racist about that.

paintedlady said:

For all of you ignoring my posts...

The person who asked the question wasn't at issue.... it could of been anybody asking that...

this issue is...

If a black women responds negatively to a question asked about her, does she always have to be nice about her response?

The answer I see from people here is.... YES. Because God forbid any black woman here be offended by any question a white person asks her....

the question was asked politely sure... but its one of those sugar coated shit type of questions that MAY bring up feelings in people. EVERY PERSON already knew that going in. Ace fucking knew it, so did Dan, Fauxie, EVERYBODY!!! But still they act as if people like SCNDLS, Stillgotit, me, & Duecy are a bunch of oversensitive racist women with an agenda. WTF? It is what it is.... I guess black people can't answer shit honestly around here because if we do we are fucking racist against white people.

Some folks here can't take it if black women aren't all sweet? WTF? Some white people here need to stop being so damned oversensitive themselves....

I also think Ace handled himself just fine earlier before all this shit turned up... I am sure he isn't crying in some corner all curled up with a blankie.

As for me... I didn't mind answering Ace.... that was not an issue for me since I saw past his loaded question, but I am not all black people, and grown fucking women here should answer as they well please to. Ace can shake it off and keep on rolling along just like we ALL do when learning new things about customs and cultures we are new to.

The women here, black or white shouldn't have to hide their true feelings on a subject. They say whay they feel and talk about it. Nothing wrong or racist about that.

Ok, I am going to make this post and then I am going to leave this topic alone. It is one of the threads that make me wonder why I even come here anymore and that is my truth.

As one of the more hypersensitive people on the org, I have seen no problem with anyone being offended by anything they choose to be offended by. I have had more than my share of folks jumping on me here because of it. I have not given the tiniest of fucks.

In this case though, why be offended of the OP genuinely was not trying to offend anyone? There are plenty of race-baiters here and plenty of folks who come a runnin' to get there digs in when any thread on race is posted and this is not one of those cases.

Why not get mad as a woman of color when someone asks such a question? Because we can answer a question like this or even one from someone who truly is trying to race bait with style and dignity. I know none of you care if you get called an angry black woman but I do. That shit irks the hell out of me.

I post my thoughts here all the time but there are times where I hold my tongue. I didn't even want to post to this thread after my initial post for "fear" of being labelled one thing or another I am not but what I am not is someone who will not speak up when I feel something is wrong. I do not see where some of the conclusions have been reached on this thread including your post. I don't see where anyone has referred to anyone as a racist except Spin referring to 2elijah.

We are either going to decide we can talk about race on these boards or we are not. We are never goin to understand each other if a genuine dialogue cannot be had here.

Vendetta1 said:

paintedlady said:

For all of you ignoring my posts...

The person who asked the question wasn't at issue.... it could of been anybody asking that...

this issue is...

If a black women responds negatively to a question asked about her, does she always have to be nice about her response?

The answer I see from people here is.... YES. Because God forbid any black woman here be offended by any question a white person asks her....

the question was asked politely sure... but its one of those sugar coated shit type of questions that MAY bring up feelings in people. EVERY PERSON already knew that going in. Ace fucking knew it, so did Dan, Fauxie, EVERYBODY!!! But still they act as if people like SCNDLS, Stillgotit, me, & Duecy are a bunch of oversensitive racist women with an agenda. WTF? It is what it is.... I guess black people can't answer shit honestly around here because if we do we are fucking racist against white people.

Some folks here can't take it if black women aren't all sweet? WTF? Some white people here need to stop being so damned oversensitive themselves....

I also think Ace handled himself just fine earlier before all this shit turned up... I am sure he isn't crying in some corner all curled up with a blankie.

As for me... I didn't mind answering Ace.... that was not an issue for me since I saw past his loaded question, but I am not all black people, and grown fucking women here should answer as they well please to. Ace can shake it off and keep on rolling along just like we ALL do when learning new things about customs and cultures we are new to.

The women here, black or white shouldn't have to hide their true feelings on a subject. They say whay they feel and talk about it. Nothing wrong or racist about that.

Ok, I am going to make this post and then I am going to leave this topic alone. It is one of the threads that make me wonder why I even come here anymore and that is my truth.

As one of the more hypersensitive people on the org, I have seen no problem with anyone being offended by anything they choose to be offended by. I have had more than my share of folks jumping on me here because of it. I have not given the tiniest of fucks.

In this case though, why be offended of the OP genuinely was not trying to offend anyone? There are plenty of race-baiters here and plenty of folks who come a runnin' to get there digs in when any thread on race is posted and this is not one of those cases.

Why not get mad as a woman of color when someone asks such a question? Because we can answer a question like this or even one from someone who truly is trying to race bait with style and dignity. I know none of you care if you get called an angry black woman but I do. That shit irks the hell out of me.

I post my thoughts here all the time but there are times where I hold my tongue. I didn't even want to post to this thread after my initial post for "fear" of being labelled one thing or another I am not but what I am not is someone who will not speak up when I feel something is wrong. I do not see where some of the conclusions have been reached on this thread including your post. I don't see where anyone has referred to anyone as a racist except Spin referring to 2elijah.

We are either going to decide we can talk about race on these boards or we are not. We are never goin to understand each other if a genuine dialogue cannot be had here.

Assumptions are being made here...

1. Not everybody knows Ace.

2. So, some people on this thread really didn't "get" that he was innocent.

3. The question was one of those questions that was a loaded question.

it was NOT innocent...

a general hair question is innocent... but not so when its a white guy (avie pic) asking the question about black women specifically.

so you will get positive responses AND negative responses..

no biggie..

the real biggie is... IF someone does give a negative response they are wrong for it, even if it is a genuine feeling they have towards the subject.

this thread is not really an issue of race IMO, its an issue of entitlement. Some people here feel that any questions asked by them should never yeild a negative response.

Obviously some people were offended... Ace explained himself, people said OK...

things were cool, then the angry folks came in feeling justified because Ace meant no harm.

Well, not everybody knows Ace. So Ace was treated like any white guy would be treated if he asked a huge group of black women that question.

This happens in ALL threads on all topics, some people will respond positvely or negatively.

That is life, no surprise no biggie, and no one is pathetic because of it.

can we stop this madness get to the matter at hand please which is black hair

Now Ace, here is some videos with different natural hair regimens.

Now everyone is different there is no one way to take care of your hair but when i first went natural this videos are VERY VERY helpful..I had no clue how to take care of natural hair..

contrary to popular believe some black women dont know how to take care of their natural hair properly becuase they have relaxed it for so long..so transitioning is hard

she has more videos, hers help me out alot

[Edited 4/10/11 16:59pm]

2elijah said:

Actually the poster getitng "tired" thinking about women of African descent getting various things done to their hair, actually makes no sense, because when it comes down to it, to be honest, he should feel that way about all women who choose to go outside of their "natural" 'dos, and get various processes done to their hair. That includes everything from wearing their hair natural, to perms, hair coloring, flat-iron, hot-comb pressing, blow drying, wash and set, curly perms, etc. Those processes or haircare techniques, are not isolated among Black women. It's just particularly strange that he singled out women of African descent, when it's women from all race/ethnic groups, that use various techniquest for haircare, and the fact that no two women have the same hair texture.

Hi, 2elijah. Thank you for your thoughtful post.

I spend a lot of time in a neighborhood that has a large African-American population. A lot of the African-American women I see have either a wig, a weave or relaxed hair. African-American friends of mine tell me this is the norm, so I was curious to put the question to a larger group.

I do know that a lot of women (and some men, for that matter), of all races, put a shitload of work into their hair. I guess, for whatever reason, I just saw relaxing and applying/removing lace-fronts (in particular) as being very arduous. Now, of course I know that there are women of other races who wear lace-fronts, but - again - based on my own observation and what I'm told by friends (one of whom is a hairdresser), it seemed like it was just a much more popular thing in the African-American community.

Again, my intention (as it was with my 'Ladies, how the hell can you wear those heels?' thread), was to say, 'Why go through all that?', as well as 'Natural hair is beautiful'. So, what was designed to say, 'You don't have to "suffer" to be beautiful', was misinterpreted by some as a baiting and divisive post.

I am truly sorry that some were upset by this. I'll know in the future to tread more carefully.

In the words of a man who I think asked a question we should all ask more often, "Can we all get along?".

Sincerely,

Ace

Ace said:

I am truly sorry that some were upset by this. I'll know in the future to tread more carefully.

In the words of a man who I think asked a question we should all ask more often, "Can we all get along?".

Sincerely,

Ace

I don't think you need to be more careful. I think you should expect negative answers and well as positive ones. Having thicker skin helps evryone here on all sides.

I say "you" meaning all people here.

See, with issues of race we all fumble, then we learn from it. Its all part of the process.

Someone will not hate you or think negatively of you if they say...

"WTF? Why are you asking that?"

they just want to know why, (I don't think they saw you as a racist or anything like that)...and you explained it.... nothing wrong with that in my book.

formallypickles said:

can we stop this madness get to the matter at hand please which is black hair

Now Ace, here is some videos with different natural hair regimens.

Now everyone is different there is no one way to take care of your hair but when i first went natural this videos are VERY VERY helpful..I had no clue how to take care of natural hair..

contrary to popular believe some black women dont know how to take care of their natural hair properly becuase they have relaxed it for so long..so transitioning is hard

[Edited 4/10/11 16:59pm]

Actually, hairdressers in the black community need $$$ so they mislead their clients with snake oil tactics and sell naive customers into trying products and services that is actually bad for their hair.

So with all the bad info being presented as good info the confusion happens.

I know hair dressers that actually have some of their clients believing that black hair can not grow or look full with out a weave. That their natural hair will never look smooth without heavy processes and extremities of heat.

OH!!! Fullness is a quality all women ( regardless of race) want in their head of hair, many black women lack body and fullness once the natural nap of their hair is straightened. Since nappy hair is usually fine in texture, the hair (even if it grows out densly) will wear flat against the head. Especially if it is weighed down by heavy styling products... so these dubious hair stylists sell the idea that these women NEED hair weaves to make more money off of them.

Its a damn shame too, so when women go to natural... the stylist will point them to products that will do NOTHING for their hair, so the client will go back to the expensive weaves/braids and other services.

More salons are "hair care" salons, but this comes at the expense of losing profit because of it. So most salons mislead clients on purpose.

^^^ Very true paintedlady......Like I said before my sister is natural and youtube has helped her immensely. The videos are so informative. I wish we had more salons that catered to natural sisters...at least where I live.... to help other women who may want to transition but don't know where to start. It can be very daunting.

But I have to say i'm seeing more and more natural sisters rocking their naps beautifully and its a wonderful thing.

lavender1983 said:

^^^ Very true paintedlady......Like I said before my sister is natural and youtube has helped her immensely. The videos are so informative. I wish we had more salons that catered to natural sisters...at least where I live.... to help other women who may want to transition but don't know where to start. It can be very daunting.

But I have to say i'm seeing more and more natural sisters rocking their naps beautifully and its a wonderful thing.

It sure is

I am glad more businesses are accepting black women wearing their hair naturally also. Many women would be turned down for jobs over the way they wore their hair.

paintedlady said:

formallypickles said:

can we stop this madness get to the matter at hand please which is black hair

Now Ace, here is some videos with different natural hair regimens.

Now everyone is different there is no one way to take care of your hair but when i first went natural this videos are VERY VERY helpful..I had no clue how to take care of natural hair..

contrary to popular believe some black women dont know how to take care of their natural hair properly becuase they have relaxed it for so long..so transitioning is hard

[Edited 4/10/11 16:59pm]

Actually, hairdressers in the black community need $$$ so they mislead their clients with snake oil tactics and sell naive customers into trying products and services that is actually bad for their hair.

So with all the bad info being presented as good info the confusion happens.

I know hair dressers that actually have some of their clients believing that black hair can not grow or look full with out a weave. That their natural hair will never look smooth without heavy processes and extremities of heat.

OH!!! Fullness is a quality all women ( regardless of race) want in their head of hair, many black women lack body and fullness once the natural nap of their hair is straightened. Since nappy hair is usually fine in texture, the hair (even if it grows out densly) will wear flat against the head. Especially if it is weighed down by heavy styling products... so these dubious hair stylists sell the idea that these women NEED hair weaves to make more money off of them.

Its a damn shame too, so when women go to natural... the stylist will point them to products that will do NOTHING for their hair, so the client will go back to the expensive weaves/braids and other services.

More salons are "hair care" salons, but this comes at the expense of losing profit because of it. So most salons mislead clients on purpose.

really? I wonder if all stylists do this, because I hear all the time about products recommend by hair dressers. They are expensive as F&@# Thank God I don't go to them, then. I'll keep using my cheap conditioner thankyou.

I saw those natural hair videos you guys talked about. I think that if you didn't have to have an afro first then more black women would have natural hair. It's like you have to cut all your hair off first and it only looks good when it's been like that for 3 years or more. I wouldn't want to have an afro either.

paintedlady said:

lavender1983 said:

^^^ Very true paintedlady......Like I said before my sister is natural and youtube has helped her immensely. The videos are so informative. I wish we had more salons that catered to natural sisters...at least where I live.... to help other women who may want to transition but don't know where to start. It can be very daunting.

But I have to say i'm seeing more and more natural sisters rocking their naps beautifully and its a wonderful thing.

It sure is

I am glad more businesses are accepting black women wearing their hair naturally also. Many women would be turned down for jobs over the way they wore their hair.

And that is the truth.

I've been witness to bosses telling sisters that natural do's like dreads and afros are "untidy" and therefore can't be professional. Nothing but bullshit. But yea more buisnesses are accepting but just as many more are still stuck in their predujice ways.