Things I Notice:

I notice...at least here in Minnesota, that gay latin guys really do not mix or socialize too much with other races. I don't know weather it is just more of because of the closeness and fimiliarity of the culture to not mix with others too much. It's not just me...because me and a couple of my friends talked about it.

I understand that alot of the black culture have alot of trouble accepting being gay..is this the reason that there arent more black gay shows, magazines, articles etc. etc. I was MAD AS HELL when Noah's Arc was taken off Logo?

Starting to see more and mroe Somali Gay life in Minnesota also..which is great by all means...I was really shocked though and it took me by suprise....now if we can get more Egyptians out of the closet we would be set

What you think?

Lets chat!!!

paisleypark4 said:

Things I Notice:

I notice...at least here in Minnesota, that gay latin guys really do not mix or socialize too much with other races. I don't know weather it is just more of because of the closeness and fimiliarity of the culture to not mix with others too much. It's not just me...because me and a couple of my friends talked about it.

I understand that alot of the black culture have alot of trouble accepting being gay..is this the reason that there arent more black gay shows, magazines, articles etc. etc. I was MAD AS HELL when Noah's Arc was taken off Logo?

Starting to see more and mroe Somali Gay life in Minnesota also..which is great by all means...I was really shocked though and it took me by suprise....now if we can get more Egyptians out of the closet we would be set

What you think?

Lets chat!!!

wow i didnt know gay east africans exsisted ...

shows you how much of a box im in

i could only speak for amsterdam and it's pretty mixed here. Of course, the latino's hang out with other latino's (mostly i think it's a language thing), but they don't have their own subculture.

Almost all my friends are gay and almost everybody is from another culture and it all mixes.

We go to the same bars etc.

Maybe it's a Minnesota thing?

On the main drag in boystown (Chicago) youd be lucky to find more an a couple dozen of black gays. Its better than it use to be, but not by much. Latinos and whites mix pretty easily, though that may be that Circuit, a bar/dance club on Halsted, advertises to the Latino clientale.

Then again Chicago is still pretty segregated overall and not by just White and Black. Each nationality seems to have their own part of the city. though it seems like its always been that way.

Which brings up a question for me: do we hold stronger to our cultural ties, or our sexual identity ties? I think the segregation you're seeing in your gay community is a reflection of society as a whole. It's the same in The Bay Area, even though people think were more enllightened over here...not true. The Castro is predominantly white men, excuse me, rich white men.

I work at public schools, and segregation is alive and well my friends...it's just not legal anymore.

First of all paisley, are you gay???

myfavorite said:

robertlove said:

lazycrockett said:

The Cleveland gay scene was quite segregated along ethnic lines. It was overwhelmingly white, with small caches of "other" gay men here and there. They all were generally civil, and they physically occupied many of the same gathering spaces because Cleveland isn't exactly a hotbed of social options, but they didn't substantively mingle at all... except for casual sex. One exception might be the real bond that Black and Latino gay men seemed to enjoy. That was really cool.

In Toronto, the gay community is ethnically quite integrated, as far as I can tell. But very sharp segregation does exist along lines of age, wealth and physical beauty. Young, rich, pretty white men do rule the roost, but you could be reasonably accepted and socially mobile with a workable combination of just the "young," "rich" and "pretty." One place I'd argue straight-up racism does raise its head is in the disparate attitudes toward gay newcomers to Canada. It seems that if you are white with, say, some discernible overseas accent and/or adherence to certain trappings of your native culture, you are cool as hell for having a little added flavor. If the same could be said of you, but you are brown, black, especially if you're yellow , etc., you simply are an alien (or a disposible fetish prop) until such time that you are more satisfactorily integrated into the local common culture.

...Now, I must say that aside from certain activist efforts to which I belong, my own lifestyle is considerably removed from what most of us would call "the community." Much of my critique, then, is based on impressions from the outside, looking in. But friends I have who are more immersed in the local gay scene pretty much suggest I'm not far off in my thinking.

Interesting.

Latinos (mostly cuban and puertorican) gays are completely integrated with white gays in Tampa & Miami. Asians are mixed with whites in Florida as well, though there aren't enough queer Asians to form a "community". There are plenty of gay, black men in Tampa, but they tend to date outside their race from what I've seen--it's not a 'community' of black gays.

Gay blacks are discriminated like hell by the overall black population in Tampa though. Of all the ethnicities, I'd say black Americans of African heritage are the most homophobic in Florida. Latinos come in second. I woud blame it on religion, but then again--I would blamei on religion.

[Edited 3/28/11 17:21pm]

Lammastide said:

The Cleveland gay scene was quite segregated along ethnic lines. It was overwhelmingly white, with small caches of "other" gay men here and there. They all were generally civil, and they physically occupied many of the same gathering spaces because Cleveland isn't exactly a hotbed of social options, but they didn't substantively mingle at all... except for casual sex. One exception might be the real bond that Black and Latino gay men seemed to enjoy. That was really cool.

In Toronto, the gay community is ethnically quite integrated, as far as I can tell. But very sharp segregation does exist along lines of age, wealth and physical beauty. Young, rich, pretty white men do rule the roost, but you could be reasonably accepted and socially mobile with a workable combination of just the "young," "rich" and "pretty." One place I'd argue straight-up racism does raise its head is in the disparate attitudes toward gay newcomers to Canada. It seems that if you are white with, say, some discernible overseas accent and/or adherence to certain trappings of your native culture, you are cool as hell for having a little added flavor. If the same could be said of you, but you are brown, black, especially if you're yellow , etc., you simply are an alien (or a disposible fetish prop) until such time that you are more satisfactorily integrated into the local common culture.

...Now, I must say that aside from certain activist efforts to which I belong, my own lifestyle is considerably removed from what most of us would call "the community." Much of my critique, then, is based on impressions from the outside, looking in. But friends I have who are more immersed in the local gay scene pretty much suggest I'm not far off in my thinking.

Wow that is a really thought out post ..thank you for your comments.

I think the young rich and pretty thing all falls in line with all races when it comes to being gay. I have been reading alot of books on loving thyself being gay weather you are not pretty or rich or young....dont know why gay people are obsessed with that...those types get on my NERVES So the blacks and latinos are closer in Toronto? Sounds like the NY lifestyle, they seem alot more close than out here in the midwest....

paisleypark4 said:

Lammastide said:

The Cleveland gay scene was quite segregated along ethnic lines. It was overwhelmingly white, with small caches of "other" gay men here and there. They all were generally civil, and they physically occupied many of the same gathering spaces because Cleveland isn't exactly a hotbed of social options, but they didn't substantively mingle at all... except for casual sex. One exception might be the real bond that Black and Latino gay men seemed to enjoy. That was really cool.

In Toronto, the gay community is ethnically quite integrated, as far as I can tell. But very sharp segregation does exist along lines of age, wealth and physical beauty. Young, rich, pretty white men do rule the roost, but you could be reasonably accepted and socially mobile with a workable combination of just the "young," "rich" and "pretty." One place I'd argue straight-up racism does raise its head is in the disparate attitudes toward gay newcomers to Canada. It seems that if you are white with, say, some discernible overseas accent and/or adherence to certain trappings of your native culture, you are cool as hell for having a little added flavor. If the same could be said of you, but you are brown, black, especially if you're yellow , etc., you simply are an alien (or a disposible fetish prop) until such time that you are more satisfactorily integrated into the local common culture.

...Now, I must say that aside from certain activist efforts to which I belong, my own lifestyle is considerably removed from what most of us would call "the community." Much of my critique, then, is based on impressions from the outside, looking in. But friends I have who are more immersed in the local gay scene pretty much suggest I'm not far off in my thinking.

Wow that is a really thought out post ..thank you for your comments.

I think the young rich and pretty thing all falls in line with all races when it comes to being gay. I have been reading alot of books on loving thyself being gay weather you are not pretty or rich or young....dont know why gay people are obsessed with that...those types get on my NERVES So the blacks and latinos are closer in Toronto? Sounds like the NY lifestyle, they seem alot more close than out here in the midwest....

Black and Latino (particularly Puerto Rican) LGBTs in Cleveland are close. In Toronto, I see no particular bond between those two groups moreso than any others.

...???

versiongirl said:

Which brings up a question for me: do we hold stronger to our cultural ties, or our sexual identity ties? I think the segregation you're seeing in your gay community is a reflection of society as a whole. It's the same in The Bay Area, even though people think were more enllightened over here...not true. The Castro is predominantly white men, excuse me, rich white men.

I work at public schools, and segregation is alive and well my friends...it's just not legal anymore.

Castro, that is San Fran right? I noticed that there....Castro clubs are a bit small compared to those here in Minneapolis...I was kind of suprised....even though we dont actually have a strip of bars. I notice there were more predominatley white people in the gay community in San Fran than anywhere else I have been to.

SagsWay2low said:

Gay blacks are discriminated like hell by the overall black population in Tampa though. Of all the ethnicities, I'd say black Americans of African heritage are the most homophobic in Florida. Latinos come in second. I woud blame it on religion, but then again--I would blamei on religion.

[Edited 3/28/11 17:21pm]

I think that the general rule pretty much everywhere you go.

paisleypark4 said:

versiongirl said:

Which brings up a question for me: do we hold stronger to our cultural ties, or our sexual identity ties? I think the segregation you're seeing in your gay community is a reflection of society as a whole. It's the same in The Bay Area, even though people think were more enllightened over here...not true. The Castro is predominantly white men, excuse me, rich white men.

I work at public schools, and segregation is alive and well my friends...it's just not legal anymore.

Castro, that is San Fran right? I noticed that there....Castro clubs are a bit small compared to those here in Minneapolis...I was kind of suprised....even though we dont actually have a strip of bars. I notice there were more predominatley white people in the gay community in San Fran than anywhere else I have been to.

Yes, that is San Francisco (think Sean Penn in MILK) and yes, it is predominantly rich, white men...some of which are REPUBLICANS!!!

I live in Los Angeles. It's poppin out here

versiongirl said:

paisleypark4 said:

Castro, that is San Fran right? I noticed that there....Castro clubs are a bit small compared to those here in Minneapolis...I was kind of suprised....even though we dont actually have a strip of bars. I notice there were more predominatley white people in the gay community in San Fran than anywhere else I have been to.

Yes, that is San Francisco (think Sean Penn in MILK) and yes, it is predominantly rich, white men...some of which are REPUBLICANS!!!

ScarletScandal said:

I live in Los Angeles. It's poppin out here

LA really aint all that.............

It's not as surprising as some would think... I already knew this. It don't matter what your orientation is, that privelege bullshit always gets in the way of peace between all ethnicities.

myfavorite said:

ScarletScandal said:

I live in Los Angeles. It's poppin out here

LA really aint all that.............

Coming from Pennsylvania it is.

paisleypark4 said:

robertlove said:

i could only speak for amsterdam and it's pretty mixed here. Of course, the latino's hang out with other latino's (mostly i think it's a language thing), but they don't have their own subculture.

Almost all my friends are gay and almost everybody is from another culture and it all mixes.

We go to the same bars etc.

Maybe it's a Minnesota thing?

Could be a language thing...nothing against them, I must have dated at least three latino guys. I hear lots of good things about gay life in Amsterdam....to visit..not to live though.

What do you mean? Why would it bad to live in Amsterdam?

I've seen very few hispanics in the gay clubs down here. Actually, I can count two occassions that I even saw hispanics in the gay clubs, period. Once in the black club back in the mid 1990s and the black gays talked about them like a dog which really got on my nerves. Another time in the mid 2000s in the white club and they seemed to be more accepting of them.

That night in the black club back in the 1990s, I ran into one of them in the restroom and tried to talk to him and he couldn't speak a damn word of English. That didn't matter to me though because conversation wasn't what I was after. I simply pointed to his crotch and put my finger in my mouth. The motherfucker walked away. I want me some of them big, thick, hairy hispanic dicks though, so bad I can taste it dammitt!!! Those are some hot motherfuckers..

Timmy84 said:

It's not as surprising as some would think... I already knew this. It don't matter what your orientation is, that privelege bullshit always gets in the way of peace between all ethnicities.

tru dat. i guess it comes with all types of bars?

vainandy said:

I've seen very few hispanics in the gay clubs down here. Actually, I can count two occassions that I even saw hispanics in the gay clubs, period. Once in the black club back in the mid 1990s and the black gays talked about them like a dog which really got on my nerves. Another time in the mid 2000s in the white club and they seemed to be more accepting of them.

That night in the black club back in the 1990s, I ran into one of them in the restroom and tried to talk to him and he couldn't speak a damn word of English. That didn't matter to me though because conversation wasn't what I was after. I simply pointed to his crotch and put my finger in my mouth. The motherfucker walked away. I want me some of them big, thick, hairy hispanic dicks though, so bad I can taste it dammitt!!! Those are some hot motherfuckers..

Where do they usually hang in your area? I know you said you dont go to the clubs often anymore. I think gay black guys in the past (at least just two years ago just in Minnesota) used to think mexicans were snobby because they always clung to eachother. I was used to seeing more hispanics and blacks mix well in New York..thats why there are so many 'blatinos' in the East Coast. Here, it's like apples and oranges half the time.

I had three different types of hispanic guys unfortunatley so I couldnt rate their sizes...plus Im not a big fan of the penis it does nothing for me really.

.I had a dude from Venezuela... sexy thick hands and feet, thick curly hair and would suck my lip so hard it would bruise...he hd a really small dick. A short Puerto Rican guy same age as me, his dick was medium sized, and a Mexican Puerto Rican kid, thick, smooth body, very good kisser and had a BIG ass. He had a nice 7" on him..I was suprised...I gotta say their lips are heaven Make ya melt.

robertlove said:

paisleypark4 said:

robertlove said: Could be a language thing...nothing against them, I must have dated at least three latino guys. I hear lots of good things about gay life in Amsterdam....to visit..not to live though.

What do you mean? Why would it bad to live in Amsterdam?

Just the suggestions I got from my former roomate and a flight attendant. One said, lack of jobs. One said the party atmosphere is too much. I'd like to see for myself.

Generally Auckland New Zealand, has a fairly integrated gay culture as most of our best drag queens are Maori or Pacific Islander, but there is an economic division between white gays and non white gays.

1. Theres an unfortunate element of conservative white collar European gays who avoid the scene and try to assimilate into mainstream, they generally disdain teh gay lifestyle and are closted.

2. Younger Polynesian/Maori gays who are mostly marginalised to being entertainers and prostitutes and a lot of younger transexual gays are prostitutes, there are stories of 12 and 13 year old Samoan and Maori transvestites selling their bodies for smokes and a can of corned beef, and a large area of K Road (Our red light district) has side streets full of trannie hookers.

3. Young European gays (under 30) who are quite wealthy but into hedonistic drugs and partying, real scene queens

4. Gay Business types, there are a lot of successful gay male entrepeneurs, virtually all white, they are mainstreamed and include a dynamic group of young politicians in the Labour party, although one has recently been suspended pending a sexual complaint by an 18 year old man (The media being homophobic and run by the Christian right, has blown it out of proportion)

5. Lesbians Not really a large enough community to be generalised, lesbianism is hardly known or understood here, although its suspected that Helen Clark former PM was a lesbian.

6. Toy Boys, a lot of wealthy white men have bought Thai, Asian, African, Latina and Filipina men home as partners, but mostly they leave the guy when they get residency and a lot flirt around for survival, but once they get past their 30s they marry and settle down. A lot are really gay for pay and do this for residency.

Thats a half shell of gay life here. But just to say it was only decriminalized in 1986 and therefore a lot of older gays (50+) were formerly married and still uncomfortable about it. My partner for instance.

paisleypark4 said:

robertlove said:

What do you mean? Why would it bad to live in Amsterdam?

Just the suggestions I got from my former roomate and a flight attendant. One said, lack of jobs. One said the party atmosphere is too much. I'd like to see for myself.

Huh? I don't know anybody without a job. We're doing pretty good.

versiongirl said:

paisleypark4 said:

Castro, that is San Fran right? I noticed that there....Castro clubs are a bit small compared to those here in Minneapolis...I was kind of suprised....even though we dont actually have a strip of bars. I notice there were more predominatley white people in the gay community in San Fran than anywhere else I have been to.

Yes, that is San Francisco (think Sean Penn in MILK) and yes, it is predominantly rich, white men...some of which are REPUBLICANS!!!

I'm going to have to disagree with you. I know (or have worked with) a great many gay men in SF/the Bay Area and know (or have worked with) a great many men who frequent SF because they are gay. Maybe one or two of them are anywhere near what would generally be considered "rich". The rest of them have been evenly spread across all income and lifestyle levels. From street living junkie to Mercedes/home in the East Bay Hills owning CEO.

The white part I can agree with, although I'd only call it a majority. There is a gay Latino and Black presence, its just much smaller than the Caucasion demographic.