Every so often Apple releases one of its flavors of OS-X, which I just don't understand why it's considered a major upgrade and not just another incremental upgrade.

OS-X Leapard was an obvious upgrade, and despite not offering any real additional bells and whistels, I also understood why OS-X Snow Leapard was considered a major upgrade.

However, from what I've seen so far of OS-X Lion during Steve Job's debut of it at a previous Apple media event, and from reviews on the Internet, I don't understand why Lion is considered a major update.

This of course, isn't a bad thing. OS-X is a terrific operating system, and the hardware it ships with is good quality, and simply unbeaten in style. To make major changes to it would be risky and unecessary--it already works very well as it is. So, if the upgrade is going to cost anywhere from $50 to $100, what exactly justifies that?

They're calling it "Back to the Mac" where many of the features of the iPad are being added to the OS. And I admit, I love the fact that you'll be able to resume all applications from the point where you shut them down, and that this 'resume point' is intrinsic in the OS and not something the applications themselves need to take care of. But, does this constitute a major OS upgrade or just an added feature?

Seems lika waste of time 4 what I'm getting from my mac at the moment.

Graycap23 said:

Seems lika waste of time 4 what I'm getting from my mac at the moment.

I wouldn't call OS-X Lion feature bloat, and I do like some of the features they're going to add underneat the hood.

I just think branding it "Lion" like it's a major new OS upgrade is a bit much.

If Snow Leapard doesn't change at all, I think the OS is going to be good for at least another 2 years without changes.

I would rather Apple just not get into a feature-bloat war with Microsoft. Windows 7 is a great OS, but there's no reason why Apple should be intimidated by it. Hence, no real reason for major changes to OS-X.

Now if Windows 8 drops the registry, resolves .dll hell with a crude bandaide application-isolation route, I think Apple should sweat a little bit. Despite Steve Ballmer and industry pressure, Microsoft is quite capable of releasing a future OS to be worried about.

That 64 bit I'm getting out of Snow is treating me right.

I'll stick with that as long as I can.

Graycap23 said:

That 64 bit I'm getting out of Snow is treating me right.

I'll stick with that as long as I can.

I'm honestlhy beginning to sense that Apple will concentrate most of it's energy on it's non-PC devices like iPhones and iPads. The iPads of 2016 will probably be leaps and bounds ahead of the ones out now, but the notebooks and desktops will probably be only incrementally different.

SagsWay2low said:

Graycap23 said:

That 64 bit I'm getting out of Snow is treating me right.

I'll stick with that as long as I can.

I'm honestlhy beginning to sense that Apple will concentrate most of it's energy on it's non-PC devices like iPhones and iPads. The iPads of 2016 will probably be leaps and bounds ahead of the ones out now, but the notebooks and desktops will probably be only incrementally different.

U are probably right but Intel Mac's don't need 2 be messed with.

Graycap23 said:

SagsWay2low said:

I'm honestlhy beginning to sense that Apple will concentrate most of it's energy on it's non-PC devices like iPhones and iPads. The iPads of 2016 will probably be leaps and bounds ahead of the ones out now, but the notebooks and desktops will probably be only incrementally different.

U are probably right but Intel Mac's don't need 2 be messed with.

I honestly think the current macbook prod design is perfect.

About the only real mistep Apple has taken recently is that silly ass iPod Nano they just released. It's dreadful.

SagsWay2low said:

Graycap23 said:

U are probably right but Intel Mac's don't need 2 be messed with.

I honestly think the current macbook prod design is perfect.

About the only real mistep Apple has taken recently is that silly ass iPod Nano they just released. It's dreadful.

Agreed.

I could probably use my current setup 4 YEARS 2 come.

Graycap23 said:

SagsWay2low said:

I honestly think the current macbook prod design is perfect.

About the only real mistep Apple has taken recently is that silly ass iPod Nano they just released. It's dreadful.

Agreed.

I could probably use my current setup 4 YEARS 2 come.

I just replaced my white macbook (2007) because it was getting on in years, and I needed a little additional power.

The 15 inch macbook pro I just bought will last me at least 4 or 5 years to come. It'll be nice to see devices released with thunderbolt technology as well.

The years of replacing my computers and mp3 players every year are over. Too expensive and pointless. The stuff Apple releases now can last a good few years before the thought of upgrades even pops into my mind.

Also have a new MacBook (my first) and very happy with.

Anyone know when iWork 11 will be released?

Also, I need to find an affordable version of Logic Express 9 for recording somewhere soon...

Phishanga said:

Also have a new MacBook (my first) and very happy with.

Anyone know when iWork 11 will be released?

Also, I need to find an affordable version of Logic Express 9 for recording somewhere soon...

Is the a big difference between Garage Band and Logic 9 Express?

Graycap23 said:

Phishanga said:

Also have a new MacBook (my first) and very happy with.

Anyone know when iWork 11 will be released?

Also, I need to find an affordable version of Logic Express 9 for recording somewhere soon...

Is the a big difference between Garage Band and Logic 9 Express?

Uhm, as far as I know, you cannot create own beats with Garage Band?

I can only hope that the iPad-like features can be disabled

I cannot stand iOS and all the multi-touch fuckery I'm happy with a regular trackpad and a keyboard Although I do love the two-finger scrolling but that's about it.

I am looking forward to the new Mail app and I wish they stopped acting like they invented video calls or something. Apple has been making a lot of crap that is really just unnecessary - fun, but unnecessary. I suppose I can just not use it (and I don't) but they have been overlooking most of the useful features of Lion and have focused more on trivial stuff like FaceTime, Mission Control, Launchpad, etc.

That said, I'm really happy with Snow Leopard and don't really see Lion as a major upgrade. It is an important upgrade because of the new system features but other than that, it's just the novelty of making Mac OS more like iOS.

Also, iOS scrolling = bullshit.

I'm going to put on Snow Leopard tomorrow

Phishanga said:

Graycap23 said:

Is the a big difference between Garage Band and Logic 9 Express?

Uhm, as far as I know, you cannot create own beats with Garage Band?

Phishanga said:

Graycap23 said:

Is the a big difference between Garage Band and Logic 9 Express?

Uhm, as far as I know, you cannot create own beats with Garage Band?

OK, I'm not musically inclined but when you say "make beats" are you talking simply about sequencing drumb parts to create a beat and looping it like a sequencer?

Garage band is capable of doing that, but I'm ignorant of what "making beats" actually means.

Music created in Garageband by me (and I know NOTHING about music) in about 15 minutes.

Graycap23 said:

Phishanga said:

Uhm, as far as I know, you cannot create own beats with Garage Band?

Really? Garage band is midi based. That does not make sense.

Well, I'm not a 100% sure... maybe someone knows for sure?

Phishanga said:

Graycap23 said:

Really? Garage band is midi based. That does not make sense.

Well, I'm not a 100% sure... maybe someone knows for sure?

SagsWay2low said:

Phishanga said:

Uhm, as far as I know, you cannot create own beats with Garage Band?

OK, I'm not musically inclined but when you say "make beats" are you talking simply about sequencing drumb parts to create a beat and looping it like a sequencer?

Garage band is capable of doing that, but I'm ignorant of what "making beats" actually means.

Uhm, Garage Band has the pre-created drum loops that you can put together, but that's not what I'm looking for. I need something like Ultrabeat, which is a feature of Logic (Express), which allows you to create allows you to program your own beats using a pattern.

Phishanga said:

SagsWay2low said:

OK, I'm not musically inclined but when you say "make beats" are you talking simply about sequencing drumb parts to create a beat and looping it like a sequencer?

Garage band is capable of doing that, but I'm ignorant of what "making beats" actually means.

Uhm, Garage Band has the pre-created drum loops that you can put together, but that's not what I'm looking for. I need something like Ultrabeat, which is a feature of Logic (Express), which allows you to create allows you to program your own beats using a pattern.

Doesn't it also have drum kits?

Graycap23 said:

Phishanga said:

Well, I'm not a 100% sure... maybe someone knows for sure?

It's a poor man's version of a full blown sequencer.

Just recording for fun and not that overwhelmingly talented, so basic stuff is ok for me. But some certain things I do need.

Phishanga said:

SagsWay2low said:

OK, I'm not musically inclined but when you say "make beats" are you talking simply about sequencing drumb parts to create a beat and looping it like a sequencer?

Garage band is capable of doing that, but I'm ignorant of what "making beats" actually means.

Uhm, Garage Band has the pre-created drum loops that you can put together, but that's not what I'm looking for. I need something like Ultrabeat, which is a feature of Logic (Express), which allows you to create allows you to program your own beats using a pattern.

I use Logic 9 never really paid any attention 2 Garage Band.

Alej said:

I can only hope that the iPad-like features can be disabled

I cannot stand iOS and all the multi-touch fuckery I'm happy with a regular trackpad and a keyboard Although I do love the two-finger scrolling but that's about it.

I am looking forward to the new Mail app and I wish they stopped acting like they invented video calls or something. Apple has been making a lot of crap that is really just unnecessary - fun, but unnecessary. I suppose I can just not use it (and I don't) but they have been overlooking most of the useful features of Lion and have focused more on trivial stuff like FaceTime, Mission Control, Launchpad, etc.

That said, I'm really happy with Snow Leopard and don't really see Lion as a major upgrade. It is an important upgrade because of the new system features but other than that, it's just the novelty of making Mac OS more like iOS.

Also, iOS scrolling = bullshit.

I still view IOS a newbie in the OS market and there's room for improvement.

I do think Apple isn't given enough credit for how the iPhone and IOS revolutionized

the cellphone and indeed portable device market.

And I think the IOS style features require 3-finger swipes upward to activate, so

I don't think there's a problem there.

I completely get what you're saying about the bloaty nature of their features now.

Just throwing more bells and whistles is not going to make it a better O/S.

I do think that in general, Apple gives you features that are more useful than not.

Although I love the idea of applications being launched in the exact same place

that you closed them, I'm hoping you can disable this on certain apps by default.

I don't want to go to the last page I visited, especially if it's bizarre Japanese

torture-and-fetish-with-tenticles porn. And I have no interest of leaving off where

I started with certain office apps. However, for most apps it will be a great feature.

I like a lot of the features that I'm hearing about, but like you said, I don't see this

as a major upgrade.

Also, does anybody know if there's an Apple version of Visio or something comparable?

Phishanga said:

Also have a new MacBook (my first) and very happy with.

Anyone know when iWork 11 will be released?

Also, I need to find an affordable version of Logic Express 9 for recording somewhere soon...

Oh, to answer this, I think iWork 11 will either be released along side OS-X Lion or with the new iPods this September.

I think the new iPods will finally see increases in capacity so the old iPod Classic will be discontinued. Also, I believe they're adding a camera back into the iPod Nano , but keeping the same basic shape--which I think is just dreadful. There's no video on it, and you can't play games on it--so the stuff you bought for your older Nano will only play sound (if it's video), and the games just won't play at all.

And judging from leaks about the upcoming nano, they're keeping that stupid design.

I think the Nano will actually replace the shuffle, and the limitations of the Nano will allow Apple to more easily differentiate their products (between the Nano and the Touch). If a Nano were just a smaller touch, then it would cut into the touche's market per say. But I could be wrong about that.

anyways, to answer your question, I think iwork11 is going to drop with OS-X Lion or with the iPods this September.

You should take a peek at Office 2011 (Microsoft) though. It's really great--they even aded vba support back into it. It runs much, much, muuuuuuuch faster than office 2008.

SagsWay2low said:

Alej said:

I can only hope that the iPad-like features can be disabled

I cannot stand iOS and all the multi-touch fuckery I'm happy with a regular trackpad and a keyboard Although I do love the two-finger scrolling but that's about it.

I am looking forward to the new Mail app and I wish they stopped acting like they invented video calls or something. Apple has been making a lot of crap that is really just unnecessary - fun, but unnecessary. I suppose I can just not use it (and I don't) but they have been overlooking most of the useful features of Lion and have focused more on trivial stuff like FaceTime, Mission Control, Launchpad, etc.

That said, I'm really happy with Snow Leopard and don't really see Lion as a major upgrade. It is an important upgrade because of the new system features but other than that, it's just the novelty of making Mac OS more like iOS.

Also, iOS scrolling = bullshit.

I still view IOS a newbie in the OS market and there's room for improvement.

I do think Apple isn't given enough credit for how the iPhone and IOS revolutionized

the cellphone and indeed portable device market.

And I think the IOS style features require 3-finger swipes upward to activate, so

I don't think there's a problem there.

I completely get what you're saying about the bloaty nature of their features now.

Just throwing more bells and whistles is not going to make it a better O/S.

I do think that in general, Apple gives you features that are more useful than not.

Although I love the idea of applications being launched in the exact same place

that you closed them, I'm hoping you can disable this on certain apps by default.

I don't want to go to the last page I visited, especially if it's bizarre Japanese

torture-and-fetish-with-tenticles porn. And I have no interest of leaving off where

I started with certain office apps. However, for most apps it will be a great feature.

I like a lot of the features that I'm hearing about, but like you said, I don't see this

as a major upgrade.

Also, does anybody know if there's an Apple version of Visio or something comparable?

I was watching this video of someone fucking around with the new features in Lion. It's a hot mess. It's so confusing. I don't even want to know the hell people will go through if Lion is the first version of Mac OS X that they use. Hell.

In terms of Visio, I came across this: http://www.omnigroup.com/...mnigraffle

Anybody know a decent free piece of music software that'll let me have a decent number of tracks for doing vocals over an mp3? I haven't done anything musically on PC in years. I want something where I can easily punch in and out with the vocals lines at a time (as I'm not a great singer ) and maybe have some basic fx.

Fauxie said:

Anybody know a decent free piece of music software that'll let me have a decent number of tracks for doing vocals over an mp3? I haven't done anything musically on PC in years. I want something where I can easily punch in and out with the vocals lines at a time (as I'm not a great singer ) and maybe have some basic fx.

GarageBand or Audacity

I'm sure there are better ones out there but they're expensive as fuck

Alej said:

Fauxie said:

Anybody know a decent free piece of music software that'll let me have a decent number of tracks for doing vocals over an mp3? I haven't done anything musically on PC in years. I want something where I can easily punch in and out with the vocals lines at a time (as I'm not a great singer ) and maybe have some basic fx.

GarageBand or Audacity

I'm sure there are better ones out there but they're expensive as fuck

Thanks, I'll look those up.

Fauxie said:

Anybody know a decent free piece of music software that'll let me have a decent number of tracks for doing vocals over an mp3? I haven't done anything musically on PC in years. I want something where I can easily punch in and out with the vocals lines at a time (as I'm not a great singer ) and maybe have some basic fx.

I think there is another one called Kristal?

I was looking for this too, I'd like a cheap version of Protools for windows XP, but i am not sure that will happen any time soon