http://thequad.blogs.nyti...ref=sports

Whitlock: Fab Five film m...rts on MSN

Much as I can't stand Whitlock, he's right about John Thompson and Georgetown.

It is Jalen Rose's job 2 tell Georgetown's story instead of his own?

niiiiice.

uPtoWnNY said:

http://thequad.blogs.nyti...ref=sports

Whitlock: Fab Five film m...rts on MSN

Much as I can't stand Whitlock, he's right about John Thompson and Georgetown.

Those are some brilliant and powerful responses. Particularly Grant Hill's.

Ummmm yeah I remember the starters at Carolina in 1993! Hello!! But I think it was a bad choice of words. He was recalling his feelings as a 17 year old. But....had he just left that term out, we wouldn't be here. Yes, I'm a Tar Heel and yes we hate Duke. But seriously? Not that much! In Rose's defense, I'd hate to be judged for the stupid stuff I thought at 17. But...he used poor judgement in word choice. But......I did laugh......only because they called Christian Laetner a bitch.

The documentary was really gratuitous. And they were beat twice for a title. And they get a documentary. Yeah, Rose must have the silver tongue.

Well said Grant Hill & Jason Whitlock. What did the fab5 accomplished. NOTHING!

They stole their look from Jordan. Fab5 were OVERRATED, loud mouth, wanna be thugs that choked under pressure. That's their legacy. The hype that team gets you would've thought they won a championship. They didn't win shit. Their losers in my book. Now Georgetown in the 80's & UNLV in the early 90's deserved the hype!

KatSkrizzle said:

Ummmm yeah I remember the starters at Carolina in 1993! Hello!! But I think it was a bad choice of words. He was recalling his feelings as a 17 year old. But....had he just left that term out, we wouldn't be here. Yes, I'm a Tar Heel and yes we hate Duke. But seriously? Not that much! In Rose's defense, I'd hate to be judged for the stupid stuff I thought at 17. But...he used poor judgement in word choice. But......I did laugh......only because they called Christian Laetner a bitch.

The documentary was really gratuitous. And they were beat twice for a title. And they get a documentary. Yeah, Rose must have the silver tongue.

Many folks share Rose's opinions about Duke. Aside from his 'Uncle Tom' comments, is he wrong? Coach K recruits a certain type of player, which is what every coach does. He wants kids from polished families, high basketball IQs, not necessarily kids who'll turn into great pros. Tim Duncan is a Coach K type player, but not John Wall. I always hated Duke - to me, they were a bunch of prep boys. And Laettner was a punkass bitch. He was great in college, but didn't do shit in the NBA.

[Edited 3/20/11 5:14am]

uPtoWnNY said:

KatSkrizzle said:

Ummmm yeah I remember the starters at Carolina in 1993! Hello!! But I think it was a bad choice of words. He was recalling his feelings as a 17 year old. But....had he just left that term out, we wouldn't be here. Yes, I'm a Tar Heel and yes we hate Duke. But seriously? Not that much! In Rose's defense, I'd hate to be judged for the stupid stuff I thought at 17. But...he used poor judgement in word choice. But......I did laugh......only because they called Christian Laetner a bitch.

The documentary was really gratuitous. And they were beat twice for a title. And they get a documentary. Yeah, Rose must have the silver tongue.

Many folks share Rose's opinions about Duke. Aside from his 'Uncle Tom' comments, is he wrong? Coach K recruits a certain type of player, which is what every coach does. He wants kids from polished families, high basketball IQs, not necessarily kids who'll turn into great pros. Tim Duncan is a Coach K type player, but not John Wall. I always hated Duke - to me, they were a bunch of prep boys. And Laettner was a punkass bitch. He was great in college, but didn't do shit in the NBA.

[Edited 3/20/11 5:14am]

I didn't want to say that. But yes Duke is notorious for having great college players and shit in the pros. I love you for saying it! I didn't want to catch the Duke hater label.

Carolina does have a standard as well. Will Graves was kicked off this year due to grades and bad behavior. Carolina didn't offer John Wall a scholarship because of his grades. But Carolina does have a reputation for their players having a good professional run. Because although it's about the team, it's also about creating the individual.

Coach K is a leader of men. Coach K is all about winning and him and the team. He wants kids that will stay all four years so he can win. The players that do go pro are so used to being babysat and monitored constantly that when they do get a taste of freedom they end up mediocre. Duke's team is ALL about Duke. It's very evident. NOTHING else matters to him but the winning team. Dude, Duke has players staying and going to grad school to play for him. Because it is ALL about him. JJ Reddick has a pretty nice career. But I haven't seen a pro player from Duke really make a lot of noise since Grant Hill. But to give Duke their props, I do see them create great players while they are in the machine.

The difference with Roy Williams is that he is a product of Dean Smith. There is a lot of Dean's school in him. Roy has lost four players this year and is still turning that team into the Carolina basketball machine that it is known for. Hell, when Carolina fired Matt Doherty, Roy turned around and turn MAtt's team into champions.

uPtoWnNY said:

KatSkrizzle said:

Ummmm yeah I remember the starters at Carolina in 1993! Hello!! But I think it was a bad choice of words. He was recalling his feelings as a 17 year old. But....had he just left that term out, we wouldn't be here. Yes, I'm a Tar Heel and yes we hate Duke. But seriously? Not that much! In Rose's defense, I'd hate to be judged for the stupid stuff I thought at 17. But...he used poor judgement in word choice. But......I did laugh......only because they called Christian Laetner a bitch.

The documentary was really gratuitous. And they were beat twice for a title. And they get a documentary. Yeah, Rose must have the silver tongue.

Many folks share Rose's opinions about Duke. Aside from his 'Uncle Tom' comments, is he wrong? Coach K recruits a certain type of player, which is what every coach does. He wants kids from polished families, high basketball IQs, not necessarily kids who'll turn into great pros. Tim Duncan is a Coach K type player, but not John Wall. I always hated Duke - to me, they were a bunch of prep boys. And Laettner was a punkass bitch. He was great in college, but didn't do shit in the NBA.

[Edited 3/20/11 5:14am]

I'm replying to you again, because you are full of gems! My boyfriend says the same thing, but never in public! Yes he thought they were all soft, but he'd never come out and call him an Uncle Tom! And the way Duke recruits students is shitty! They tell the kids nothing else matters to NC but Duke!

Oh yeah, and Tim Duncan went to Wake Forest. My brother in law played for Wake, so when they aren't playing Carolina, I root for them too!

Folks get all nervous when you tell the truth, but we all know the deal. Coach K does not recruit the same kind of players as Coach Calipari. Coack K's not interested in the one-and-dones.

But what I don't like is labeling kids "thugs" because they don't act in a way the majority approves of. They're having fun and being themselves. It's called being "human".

uPtoWnNY said:

KatSkrizzle said:

Ummmm yeah I remember the starters at Carolina in 1993! Hello!! But I think it was a bad choice of words. He was recalling his feelings as a 17 year old. But....had he just left that term out, we wouldn't be here. Yes, I'm a Tar Heel and yes we hate Duke. But seriously? Not that much! In Rose's defense, I'd hate to be judged for the stupid stuff I thought at 17. But...he used poor judgement in word choice. But......I did laugh......only because they called Christian Laetner a bitch.

The documentary was really gratuitous. And they were beat twice for a title. And they get a documentary. Yeah, Rose must have the silver tongue.

Many folks share Rose's opinions about Duke. Aside from his 'Uncle Tom' comments, is he wrong? Coach K recruits a certain type of player, which is what every coach does. He wants kids from polished families, high basketball IQs, not necessarily kids who'll turn into great pros. Tim Duncan is a Coach K type player, but not John Wall. I always hated Duke - to me, they were a bunch of prep boys. And Laettner was a punkass bitch. He was great in college, but didn't do shit in the NBA.

[Edited 3/20/11 5:14am]

You are missing the point regarding Duke and college basketball in general. I am not a Duke fan....AT ALL, but Coack K is a great coach, but his job is to win in college. Your point on Laettner and his lack of success in the NBA is irrelevant. The jealousy surrounding Duke is palpable.....and obvious....and very weak.

DarkKnight1 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Many folks share Rose's opinions about Duke. Aside from his 'Uncle Tom' comments, is he wrong? Coach K recruits a certain type of player, which is what every coach does. He wants kids from polished families, high basketball IQs, not necessarily kids who'll turn into great pros. Tim Duncan is a Coach K type player, but not John Wall. I always hated Duke - to me, they were a bunch of prep boys. And Laettner was a punkass bitch. He was great in college, but didn't do shit in the NBA.

[Edited 3/20/11 5:14am]

You are missing the point regarding Duke and college basketball in general. I am not a Duke fan....AT ALL, but Coack K is a great coach, but his job is to win in college. Your point on Laettner and his lack of success in the NBA is irrelevant. The jealousy surrounding Duke is palpable.....and obvious....and very weak.

I don't call it jealousy. I went to UNC. Hardly. I'm not going to spend 20 grand a semester to go. And besides, the academic standards of both schools are just as high. Duke and Carolina need each other. It makes each establishment stay on their toes both academically and athletically. UNC is a "public Ivy". Among the top 25 schools in the nation, last year 23. I'm hardly jealous. But a lot of the Duke players don't make a lot of noise outside of college hoops.

But both schools need each other in the end. I have a lot of friends that went to Duke, and I have to say, they're way cooler than a lot of UNC alum. UNC alum take the cake on uppity-ness; for the most part. They don't call UNC games wine and cheese parties for nothing.

And for the record. Roy Williams won two titles in 4 years. Coach K has four in 30 years.

Coach K is also Coach K because he has PR behind him too. Nothing he does isn't for press. I wish Rose hadn't given Duke any shit. Now everyone is going to be riding Duke's dick even more.

I can't stand Duke. But I respect them. It's obvious coach K knows what he's doing. I would love for coach K to coach my kid. I don't even have a problem with the fab 5 feeling the way they did about Duke during that time because they were young.

The problem is their grown men now. They suppose to be mature. Jalen Rose stated those were his views back then not now. So why bring back up that bullshit now. I know why!

The higher the controversy the higher the ratings. At your so call friend espense.

It's black on black crime. I've seen fools get more respect for doing time in jail than those that are in college with goals trying to make a better life for themselves.

Cris Rock said it best. There's two types of people with in the black community. There's

Black people and then there's N****s

The N****s got to go!

Uncle Tom Whitlock? Best to ignore the sucka.

silkylee said:

Well said Grant Hill & Jason Whitlock. What did the fab5 accomplished. NOTHING!

They stole their look from Jordan. Fab5 were OVERRATED, loud mouth, wanna be thugs that choked under pressure. That's their legacy. The hype that team gets you would've thought they won a championship. They didn't win shit. Their losers in my book. Now Georgetown in the 80's & UNLV in the early 90's deserved the hype!

What's thuggish about Chris Webber, Juwan Howard, and Jalen Rose?

uPtoWnNY said:

KatSkrizzle said:

Ummmm yeah I remember the starters at Carolina in 1993! Hello!! But I think it was a bad choice of words. He was recalling his feelings as a 17 year old. But....had he just left that term out, we wouldn't be here. Yes, I'm a Tar Heel and yes we hate Duke. But seriously? Not that much! In Rose's defense, I'd hate to be judged for the stupid stuff I thought at 17. But...he used poor judgement in word choice. But......I did laugh......only because they called Christian Laetner a bitch.

The documentary was really gratuitous. And they were beat twice for a title. And they get a documentary. Yeah, Rose must have the silver tongue.

Many folks share Rose's opinions about Duke. Aside from his 'Uncle Tom' comments, is he wrong? Coach K recruits a certain type of player, which is what every coach does. He wants kids from polished families, high basketball IQs, not necessarily kids who'll turn into great pros. Tim Duncan is a Coach K type player, but not John Wall. I always hated Duke - to me, they were a bunch of prep boys. And Laettner was a punkass bitch. He was great in college, but didn't do shit in the NBA.

[Edited 3/20/11 5:14am]

Hmm. It seems 2 me that TD turned out to be a great player, probably 1 of the all-time greats leading his Spurs to 4 NBA Championships. And still going strong.

silkylee said:

Well said Grant Hill & Jason Whitlock. What did the fab5 accomplished. NOTHING!

They stole their look from Jordan. Fab5 were OVERRATED, loud mouth, wanna be thugs that choked under pressure. That's their legacy. The hype that team gets you would've thought they won a championship. They didn't win shit. Their losers in my book. Now Georgetown in the 80's & UNLV in the early 90's deserved the hype!

Chris Webber was paid off to call a timeout that DID NOT exist in that NCAA title game against North Carolina!

The greatest shame isn't that, at the time, Jalen Rose -- as he reminded people in his ESPN documentary "The Fab Five" -- felt that black students who attended white schools were sellouts.

The greatest shame isn't that Kid Rose must have felt some sense of disloyalty or self-hatred because how else could he attend and become fabulous at the predominantly white University of Michigan and not consider himself a so-called Uncle Tom?

No, the greatest shame is that had Kid Rose read Harriet Beecher Stowe's 1852 novel "Uncle Tom's Cabin; or, Life Among the Lowly," he would have learned that Tom, the main character, was a beloved hero, a Christian martyr -- and someone who deserves better in history.

Stowe analyzed the daily pain of slavery by telling the stories of people revolving around Uncle Tom. History has masked how the book was intended. Even beloved Tom's story has been lost: He was beaten to death because he would not betray other slaves. All that remains is the fact that he was subservient to white criminals who kept him and other kidnapped Africans captive.

As if he had a choice.

A foolish endeavor

Sadly, that is where black America still exists 159 years later, debating our worth, our successes and failures, our hopes and dreams, based on how they relate to white America.

Instead of one America that measures itself against the world, we measure the gap between black and white, educationally, economically and socially. It is a foolish endeavor since America spent nearly a hundred years of its constituted life ensuring that there was an underclass. (You can't have a superior class without an underclass.) Black people, in the national aggregate, will never catch up, so to speak. Black people individually have surpassed in ways too numerous to count -- although we try to do so every February.

Kid Rose perpetuated a stereotype he didn't understand. Grown-up Rose, a 38-year-old sports analyst, reminded people of what he did. He could have taken out that "Uncle Tom" quote. He didn't because, then as now, he didn't understand the damage it could do.

Achievements and accusations

The bottom line is this: For centuries, white America and black America have spent billions to retain some separateness. So strong is that need for separateness that some black Americans have taken it as insult that other black Americans would seek to excel, would excel.

As the only member of my family to attend a predominantly white university (everyone else went to North Carolina Central University, N.C. A&T State University, Winston-Salem State University, Elizabeth City State University and Fayetteville State University), I heard what Grant Hill heard then and what kids still hear today.

With every achievement, my family beamed, while some peers accused me of trying to be white -- as if that were the only province for exceptional.

Yes, there's plenty to be sad about in this latest little brouhaha about who is and isn't black enough based on how smart they are. I'm sad that the argument still persists.

But I'm sadder that a beloved character in a book that President Abraham Lincoln claimed help start the Civil War, has been turned into a stereotype, his name into a racial epithet.

Uncle Tom deserves better.

Contact ROCHELLE RILEY: rriley99@freepress.com

Smittyrock70 said:

KatSkrizzle said:

Smittyrock70 said:

Hmm. It seems 2 me that TD turned out to be a great player, probably 1 of the all-time greats leading his Spurs to 4 NBA Championships. And still going strong.

Tim Duncan played for Wake Forest. He's boring to watch, but a helluva player. But...he was a Demon Deacon, not a Duke Blue Devil.

Well I neva said brah set the world on fire ala-Dr. J, Kobe, or MJ in high-flying dramatics. But like those 3 Mr. Fundamental gets the job done. I'm well aware that TD's from Wake Forest as well as the perrson I responded to earlier to my post. My point was that despite in his opinion that TD was a "Coach K" type of player like a Laettener(sorry if I mispelled his name) and people of that ilk that don't move on and have a superstar career in the NBA leading teams to a championship was off-base. That's all.

[Edited 3/22/11 22:49pm]