TheDigitalGardener said:

Extasy was brilliant in the early to mid 90's, £20 a shot, almost pure MDMA, then as popularity in the drug grew and grew (in my part of the UK), the quality dipped considerably, along with the prices.

People began dying and there was a ton of shit press about it all (at least here in the UK).

A young girl in her teens (if i remember) died from a bad E, her mother made the very brave decision to publish a picture of her daughter moments from death in the UK press.

That picture shocked a lot of us in our group, and not long after that we stopped doing E, i'm sure that picture had the same effect on a lot of people across the UK.

By that time you were getting E for £1, and it was just shit, it contained almost no MDMA and was just a mix of bad quality speed, acid and god knows what else.

the thing was, I split a pill with my friend and he was fine. I was messed up for months. That made me realize it was not just the drug, but the chemistry of the person taking it as well.

NDRU said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

Extasy was brilliant in the early to mid 90's, £20 a shot, almost pure MDMA, then as popularity in the drug grew and grew (in my part of the UK), the quality dipped considerably, along with the prices.

People began dying and there was a ton of shit press about it all (at least here in the UK).

A young girl in her teens (if i remember) died from a bad E, her mother made the very brave decision to publish a picture of her daughter moments from death in the UK press.

That picture shocked a lot of us in our group, and not long after that we stopped doing E, i'm sure that picture had the same effect on a lot of people across the UK.

By that time you were getting E for £1, and it was just shit, it contained almost no MDMA and was just a mix of bad quality speed, acid and god knows what else.

the thing was, I split a pill with my friend and he was fine. I was messed up for months. That made me realize it was not just the drug, but the chemistry of the person taking it as well.

Indeed.

It took me from being an angry, violent asshole to a peace loving hippie raver. ... and then I had to stop taking it. Anyway...

I took it a lot. The number is so large that people are like, "yeah, right", so I don't actually give one any more. But I only attended two or three of my 125 plus Dead and Jerry Garcia shows sober, and from 1991 to 1995 I didn't go to or stay at a rave if I didn't have a dose or couldn't find one at the party. I was going to parties 2-5 times a week during those years. And that doesn't take into account personal home use. So, ya know, do the math. A lot.

All those times but the last two were great. Some of the best experiences of my life. Transcendent jams at concerts, dancing in a trance like state until long after the sun came up back when raves were actually fun, camping and hiking with friends, discussing all manner of deep thought. Personally, I rarely had visual hallucinations. I always got the enhanced colors and sounds, tracers on light sources, wall warps, floor rolls and stuff like that (I mean, for real, you have no idea how long you can watch the fibers on a bathroom towel wiggle until you've had that experience), but I didn't actuallty "see things" very often. Probably only about 10% of the time, maybe even less. When I did it was always great, though. But mostly what acid did for me... to me? Good question. Anyway, mostly I just felt more free, open and loose. I was more willing to open myself to those other layers of conciousness, of being, and thinking. It allowed me to view the most simple concepts from a multitude of difficult angles, and to make the deepest, most complicated thoughts seem simple and easy. And then there was the last two times...

Second to last was home use, and I ended up naked under a sleeping bag on the concrete back patio in the midst of a seriously awful trip. I've never sweated so much in my entire life, felt like I was having a heart attack for about three hours and I couldn't make sense of any of my thoughts. They'd fly into my head, bounce around, run into another thought and fly back out. Eventually I passed out and woke up many hours later laying in the same spot, still sweating, every muscle in my body weak and shaking, having trouble breathing. Well, I'm (usually) no fool, so I decided that was it. Never again. The main reason for that being I was scared shitless it would happen again. More on that in a bit...

However, I really loved doing the stuff, so after a couple months I decided it was time to try again. Went to a Prodigy show and bumped into a regular seller (older hippie guy with a big grey beard who usually wore a big floppy cap). He smiled a big old grin and said, "you'll definitely only need one", which kind of freaked me out. I should have tossed it on the ground at that point as a hit was only five bucks. Of course, I didn't - but boy do I wish I had. The Prodigy were great, and I mean really freakin' awesome. I had just started tripping when they came on stage. Everybody was hyped, they were hyped and the energy was super intense. Their sound systems have always been WAY too loud and this show was no exception. It was chest rattlingly loud, which was always something I really enjoyed. Everyone was dancing maniacally, bouncing up and down, arms waving in the air. At one point a group of naked people danced snake like through the smiling crowd. I remember clearly looking at the people I was with, seeing them smiling from ear to ear, and smiling back. Then the Prodigy stopped playing...

And my right ear began ringing. See, I hadn't moved more than a couple feet through their entire set and my right ear was about 10 feet away from one of their stacks the whole time (and that was after hundreds of other raves and concerts). I started to feel a bit "off" and said I was going to go to the bathroom. Went into this long hallway and started hearing echoing voices. A DJ started playing and the music echoed through the halls. The halls started twisting. The bricks in the floor started alternately rising and falling. I started sweating and proceeded to experienced my first panic attack, which lasted for the next several weeks (and I don't mean that in the plural, I mean THAT panic attack was in affect almost constantly for the next several weeks). The last thing I remember was walking out the front door and the grumpy tough looking security guy (who had been ignoring everybody else) unfolding his arms, reaching out and asking me if I was OK. I walked out the front door - then it was morning, I was in the back of the truck we'd driven there in as my friends drove back over the Bay Bridge towards home. To this day I have no memory of the time in between leaving the club and waking up in the truck. I think I got out and peed on the side of a building at one point. But that's the most I can come up with.

I still have tinnitus in my right ear (which is why I preach using earplugs), floaters on my eyes (scars that move around on top of my corneas) and I had on again off again panic attacks for the next ten years. None of that existed before that night.

I never asked anybody for help afterwards because I didn't want to explain that all this, possibly, came from doing too much acid, or from doing acid at all. A couple friends knew, and I eventually told a boss because he was an old hippie himself (he was actually pissed that I hadn't told him sooner). I had one rather expensive trip to the hospital during a bad panic attack where the friends who took me said the heart monitor was bouncing so fast it looked like a solid line (awesome! ). Anyway, somewhere along the way after trying xanax (hate it!), refusing to try any other drugs (strangely, I've always hated pills) and reading a TON of books on the subject I figured it all out for myself. Haven't had a panic attack since 2005.

Now, those last two experiences may sound horrifying. They do to me, and I can tell you for sure that they weren't fun at the time. But in all honesty, I wish I could still do the stuff. I can't, and I never will, but I wish I could. I know hippies who have done the stuff since the sixties who have NEVER had a problem. But I also know hippies who have consumed far less than I did who became completely different people. I can't even explain what it is that would make somebody want to keep doing the stuff, either. Opening those doors, I guess. But its not like drinking, smoking some herb, or doing speed where you know pretty specifically what affect those drugs are going to have on you and that they're generally going to be the same each time. With acid it was always slightly different. The mood effects could range from mellow and peaceful, to heavy and intense. The hallucinatory state you reached depended as much on your own state of mind going in as they did on the quality and quantity of the acid you ingested. And that brings me back to the being "scared"...

I think, after much experience and study (reading) that most people know if they should take the stuff or not. If you're apprehensive, scared or worried about it, thats what you're going to carry into your "trip". Which probably means it would be better if you left the stuff alone. I never was, other than that very last time. The first time it was offerred I was like, *smile*, "sure!" And all those times but the last two were incredibly wonderful. But even today its not something I can endorse or condone. Its a decision that each person needs to make on their own.

Strangely (because now this thread is here), my 15 year old nephew (who knows a lot about my past) and his best friend recently asked me about it because some kids at school were telling him these crazy ass stories about "what they saw" when they took it. I sat them down and had a couple hour conversation about choices and possibilities, without ever really giving my approval, or disapproval of the possibly that they may take it some point in the future. Its a difficult conversation for me, though, as I can say without a doubt that alcohol has been far more damaging to our family than anything else (a fact that he also knows full well). But at the same time, as much as I enjoyed the good times I had on acid, I wouldn't want him (or anybody else) to experience the bad side of what I went through. But the good side? Shoot. I wish I could bottle that experience and sell it!

Anyway. Yeah, I did a lot of acid and I survived long enough to write long rambling posts about it.

Oh yeah, I rarely took more than a couple tabs at one time. Nearly always blotter (paper). Had sugar cubes a couple times and pure liquid drops a couple times.

Lastly, fuck ecstacy. Fuck it 1000 times. That shit is awful.

I can relate to some of what you said above, except it happened to me after only my second ever hit of E!

Panic attacks that lasted for months with varying intensity, some so bad I felt like I could not cross the street because it was too intense. I lost a ton of weight because a single grape felt like a turkey dinner. Falling asleep literally felt like falling, and I would jerk awake.

Eventually I quit smoking pot because I just did not enjoy it anymore, and slowly got better. But it was hell. Quitting weed was good for me, but it was not what I wanted, exactly, it was forced on me by this "condition."

Just my second hit of E ever. I would sooner do heroin than try it again.

But acid was always okay, aside from the occasional anxiety of wanting the trip to end after 10 hours or so.

NDRU said:

I can relate to some of what you said above, except it happened to me after only my second ever hit of E!

Panic attacks that lasted for months with varying intensity, some so bad I felt like I could not cross the street because it was too intense. I lost a ton of weight because a single grape felt like a turkey dinner. Falling asleep literally felt like falling, and I would jerk awake.

Eventually I quit smoking pot because I just did not enjoy it anymore, and slowly got better. But it was hell. Quitting weed was good for me, but it was not what I wanted, exactly, it was forced on me by this "condition."

Just my second hit of E ever. I would sooner do heroin than try it again.

But acid was always okay, aside from the occasional anxiety of wanting the trip to end after 10 hours or so.

Oh yes I totally remember the "falling" asleep and jerking awake. But I've had insomnia for so long that that was never a huge issue for me.

How did you get your panic attacks to stop? Just quit smoking weed? I never stopped that, although I did quit drinking coffee, soda and eating almost all sugar for two years. Never went back to soda, either. As far as the herb goes, some days it was all that would calm me down to a point where I could function normally. The two biggest things for me were learning how to identify the symptons (so I would know an attack was coming before it got there) and learning how to breathe properly. Learning how to regulate my breathing was HUGE. In the end that's actually how I was able to get them to stop altogether.

TheDigitalGardener is totally correct in regards to the arch of quality regarding ecstacy. But the same thing goes on with acid, speed, heroin, etc. And it goes in cycles. Some times the market is flooded with really good stuff, sometimes it's flooded with crap. A lot of the time it depends on what circles you travel in. The rave scene in the Bay Area went through the same cycle with ecstacy, but I was never into it to begin with. I didn't like what it was doing to some friends so I did a good amount of research and discovered that even the pure MDMA was not something I wanted to get into. No preaching, of course. Because I was a drug hoover for many years. But X just seemed to chemically weird to me. Plus, I didn't like the description of the side affects and possible long term damage. Not like things turned out all shiny for me, though. Pick your poison, I guess.

I used to LOVE that nervous twitchy come down time at the end of a trip. Your body would be kind of buzzing (literally), your muscles all jello like. Perfect time to take a massive rip on the three footer and enjoy another hour of a different kind of high as you finally drifted off to sleep. Sigh.

TheDigitalGardener said:

Extasy was brilliant in the early to mid 90's, £20 a shot, almost pure MDMA, then as popularity in the drug grew and grew (in my part of the UK), the quality dipped considerably, along with the prices.

People began dying and there was a ton of shit press about it all (at least here in the UK).

A young girl in her teens (if i remember) died from a bad E, her mother made the very brave decision to publish a picture of her daughter moments from death in the UK press.

That picture shocked a lot of us in our group, and not long after that we stopped doing E, i'm sure that picture had the same effect on a lot of people across the UK.

By that time you were getting E for £1, and it was just shit, it contained almost no MDMA and was just a mix of bad quality speed, acid and god knows what else.

Although never really being attracted to Extasy I took it twice in the 90's due to the crowd around me, on both occaisions nothing happened and I felt left out.
For some vague reason I still tink extasy is going to far.


On another note I've always had too much respect for peyote, Probably due to those excellent Castenada books I've never seen it in a recreational light.

I would be interested in taking 'shrooms again though

Cerebus said:

NDRU said:

I can relate to some of what you said above, except it happened to me after only my second ever hit of E!

Panic attacks that lasted for months with varying intensity, some so bad I felt like I could not cross the street because it was too intense. I lost a ton of weight because a single grape felt like a turkey dinner. Falling asleep literally felt like falling, and I would jerk awake.

Eventually I quit smoking pot because I just did not enjoy it anymore, and slowly got better. But it was hell. Quitting weed was good for me, but it was not what I wanted, exactly, it was forced on me by this "condition."

Just my second hit of E ever. I would sooner do heroin than try it again.

But acid was always okay, aside from the occasional anxiety of wanting the trip to end after 10 hours or so.

Oh yes I totally remember the "falling" asleep and jerking awake. But I've had insomnia for so long that that was never a huge issue for me.

How did you get your panic attacks to stop? Just quit smoking weed? I never stopped that, although I did quit drinking coffee, soda and eating almost all sugar for two years. Never went back to soda, either. As far as the herb goes, some days it was all that would calm me down to a point where I could function normally. The two biggest things for me were learning how to identify the symptons (so I would know an attack was coming before it got there) and learning how to breathe properly. Learning how to regulate my breathing was HUGE. In the end that's actually how I was able to get them to stop altogether.

TheDigitalGardener is totally correct in regards to the arch of quality regarding ecstacy. But the same thing goes on with acid, speed, heroin, etc. And it goes in cycles. Some times the market is flooded with really good stuff, sometimes it's flooded with crap. A lot of the time it depends on what circles you travel in. The rave scene in the Bay Area went through the same cycle with ecstacy, but I was never into it to begin with. I didn't like what it was doing to some friends so I did a good amount of research and discovered that even the pure MDMA was not something I wanted to get into. No preaching, of course. Because I was a drug hoover for many years. But X just seemed to chemically weird to me. Plus, I didn't like the description of the side affects and possible long term damage. Not like things turned out all shiny for me, though. Pick your poison, I guess.

I used to LOVE that nervous twitchy come down time at the end of a trip. Your body would be kind of buzzing (literally), your muscles all jello like. Perfect time to take a massive rip on the three footer and enjoy another hour of a different kind of high as you finally drifted off to sleep. Sigh.

Many thanks to both of you guys for your fascinating posts!

Cerebus said:

NDRU said:

I can relate to some of what you said above, except it happened to me after only my second ever hit of E!

Panic attacks that lasted for months with varying intensity, some so bad I felt like I could not cross the street because it was too intense. I lost a ton of weight because a single grape felt like a turkey dinner. Falling asleep literally felt like falling, and I would jerk awake.

Eventually I quit smoking pot because I just did not enjoy it anymore, and slowly got better. But it was hell. Quitting weed was good for me, but it was not what I wanted, exactly, it was forced on me by this "condition."

Just my second hit of E ever. I would sooner do heroin than try it again.

But acid was always okay, aside from the occasional anxiety of wanting the trip to end after 10 hours or so.

Oh yes I totally remember the "falling" asleep and jerking awake. But I've had insomnia for so long that that was never a huge issue for me.

How did you get your panic attacks to stop? Just quit smoking weed? I never stopped that, although I did quit drinking coffee, soda and eating almost all sugar for two years. Never went back to soda, either. As far as the herb goes, some days it was all that would calm me down to a point where I could function normally. The two biggest things for me were learning how to identify the symptons (so I would know an attack was coming before it got there) and learning how to breathe properly. Learning how to regulate my breathing was HUGE. In the end that's actually how I was able to get them to stop altogether.

I learned that what happened with E was that my seratonin was depleted, and that the weed was not helping me replenish it. When I smoked after taking E I experienced the paranoia that others always described and I never understood.

Smoking weed is a mild trip, and creates a challenge for your brain. That is why it is fun--a new perspective. So I felt that smoking would deplete the little bit of seratonin that I had created, and I could never get ahead. Well, that's my theory, at least. But it is true that it made my heart beat faster, so I can assume that it is not physically calming except for the relief to be smoking it when I was jonesing!

I don't know, I started to view weed very differently. I used to think it relaxed me, then I started to think it excited me. And I did not want excitement, I wanted calm so that I could replenish. I am not against it, but it helped me regain normalcy to quit. I was not only feeling panic, I felt like I was tripping for months on end. I craved boredom!

It was not only the weed, though. I started eating foods with lots of tryptophan (which creates seratonin) and stopped drinking coffee. I ate turkey, ice cream, avocado, banana, and anything that seemed rich. No rice or bread. Those somehow seemed empty.

I also did the breathing techniques you described. I started performing, and actually learned to like the feeling of nervousness that came with it. Nerves are normal, and manageable, especially after you experience panic.

Gradually I got better. Sometimes I miss weed, but generally I think I am better without it so I just never went back to it. I also get a panicky feeling when I imagine getting high, so it does not appeal in the same way--eight years later!! I guess I am scarred!

[Edited 3/8/11 23:04pm]