Elle85n09 said:

StillGotIt said:

When stuff is all wrong, believe me the children notice. It is better to make whatever changes that you can withstand and be honest with the kids about the changes if they inquire. Absolutely do not let them in on the financial woes you may face, that is way too stressful for kids. Just tell them about the changes and make them.

I know somebody who grew up with parents that slept apart, who kept the problems a secret, and that child thought this was the picture of a normal marriage, and kept that thought into adulthood. This facade of a marriage fucked up that person as an adult--their picture of a healthy relationship if beyond warped.

Pretending everything is okay does not work with kids. They need both adults to be honest. They need to feel secure and have consistency. They need to feel safe, and there cannot be any badmouthing of either spouse. More importantly they will need your love and understanding through any seperation. Their anxiety comes through uncertainty, so do help them to keep their lives as "normal" as possible while at the same time you take care of yourself and your emotional needs.

You cant give them what you dont have. If you are not happy, believe me, it is reflecting negatively onto them in some form. Take care of yourself so that you can be the best parent to them that you can be.

This post is spot on PurpleJedi. I'm sorry your family is going through all of this. Is there anyway through insurance or personal finances to get your children some therapy? Just a thought...

Yes, that's next.

Wow, I can't believe people thinks its in the best interest of children to see their parents split up! No way!! That can ruin them and really cause them to rebel especially at your kids age of just going into their tween years. I say this:

You are their father, you should be willing to do whatever it takes to make sure they are happy and well taken care of. Please, put their feelings before your own. That includes, forgetting that you are miserable, and remembering that this stable home is best for them. I know that sucks, but they deserve it. You already know she can't afford the mortgage on her own, you signed on to take care of her to as your wife for better or for worse. Please remember that. This is your family here, don't leave them, until they are strong enough to survive on their own.

People that say "kids can tell" are wrong. Kids can only tell if you are putting it in their face! If you keep your composure and act normal (no fighting/arguing in front of them), then they will go on thinking things are normal for them. They DESERVE that. They are children, they don't need to be dealing with your adult issues, that is what messes kids up. No one believes in them being carefree. Don't tell them your issues, don't sleep in their bed. Sacrifice for them please. Suck it up, and continue to lay next to her, until your family is stable enough to be without you.

If you and your wife are truly done, then start doing things to move towards a split (without getiing kids involved) like starting to save more and perhaps your wife finding a higher paying job. This will prepare her to live on her own. Be sure that neither of you flaunt any new loves in front of each other or the kids anytime soon. Even if they act like it won't bother them, it will. They take this stuff to heart big time. Please wait before you do anything that could have lasting effects on your children.

I'm sorry you are going through this, but you COULD find your way back to your wife. I know she says no now, but that is common when a spouse has a hot new thing in life that is exciting. If you still love her and want things to work, don't give up so easily. This new guy probably won't work out, it usually doesn't. Give yourself some alone time to think things through, don't act on pain. Your kids don't deserve that. You and your wife can make this work for as long as you need to if you are both willing to try.

So I say, keep paying the bills, sleeping together, let her cook and clean, and let your kids going on with a loving family right now. Its best for them, please put their feelings before your own. They deserve that. Parents always sacrifice for their children, that seems to be what is needed in this situation. Would I do it for the sake of my kids...you damn right I would!

Nothinbutjoy said:

I'm just really stunned at that, just stunned.

We are talking about a person, sorry PJ, who can't heal in this situation, to quote myself

how can he become whole again, if his other half is still there taking up all that space!

ZombieKitten said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

I'm just really stunned at that, just stunned.

I know. Made note of it last night and started to reply, but decided against it. Closed the laptop down and went to bed.

Elle85n09 said:

Elle85n09 said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

I'm just really stunned at that, just stunned.

I know. Made note of it last night and started to reply, but decided against it. Closed the laptop down and went to bed.

...and yet...

...Daphne didn't say a single thing that I am not already thinking.

Wow.

Well it seems some of us agree that Daphne's response was pretty much invalid.

The thing is every one has their own lives, and just because you have children it doesn't mean you put your everything on hold for them. I really don't care what anyone else thinks otherwise. My parents are going through the same situation right now. My brother is 15 and I'm 19 - I decided last year to leave home and start a-new in a different country. That was my way with coping with it.

My brother and I have noticed the hardships between our parents for years now, since we were little kids. Now that I'm older I told both of my parents that their happiness is important to me and my brother. If they need to be seperate to have joy, then that's what they need to do...

The best thing you can do is get yourself out of this situation, and still be the loving father to your kids. Your wife as well. As long as they know that both of their parents love them still, they will be perfectly fine. Do NOT wait until your kids are older to move on with your life - that is truly unhealthy and I speak from personal experience!

Good luck to you, you have support here at the org, I hope it helps at least a tiny bit.

You have to do what makes you feel good about yourself and and the difficult situation your family is in. I've spent the better part of my life (51 yrs) trying to change other people and I know it doesn't work, although I slip up and occasionally try. If what Daphne says makes sense to you, and it's how you feel you should handle things, I don't believe anyone on this site would criticize you. We all have our opinions, but we're not standing in your shoes.

If I can do anything for you, or simply be quiet and read your feelings, you let me know okay? I'll keep you in my thoughts.

PurpleJedi said:

How far would you go "against your better judgement" for the sake of your children?

• Would you lie?
• Would you cheat?
• Would you steal?
• Would you change who you are and go against your basic sense of decency and pride...alter your very notions of what's wrong and what's right...learn to be "open" when it comes to extramarital relations even though it goes against your most basic beliefs, learn to do it yourself even...all for the sake of maintaining a home for your children? For the sake of keeping their lives with as much normalcy as possible until the relationship can be easily (financially) ended?

At what point does your sense of pride and virtue outweigh the responsibility that you have to give your children a comfortable life?

I don't think my job as a parent is to give my daughter a comfortable life. I believe that some children that grow up on farms have the best childhood yet their life is not comfortable and they are expected to pull their fair share of the work load while city kids may simply be playing away in after school programs.

My belief, at this point, is that my job is to ready my daughter for adulthood. I am 40 years older then her and I want her to be self motivated and not need me when she is well past 25 to light a fire under her ass to get a job and get on with her life.

I would not lie for her unless her life was in danger, ie her husband was an abuser. I honestly have gone through so much fucked up thinking in my own mind during my own lifetime that I would want my daughter to trust her gut and not lie to herself. I have not seen possitive results happen, in the long run, when people lie to themselves and others to keep the peace. Or when people lie to themselves about the truth of the status of a relationship. If your husband is cheating on you, pretending it is not so in order to keep the family together year after year does not help anybody. The kids know something is a miss and that you are not happy. My aunt told me something and I should have listened to her then "If the mother is happy, the kids are happy" basically kids do not benefit from you playing the martyr.

Elle85n09 said:

PurpleJedi said:

How far would you go "against your better judgement" for the sake of your children?

• Would you lie?
• Would you cheat?
• Would you steal?
• Would you change who you are and go against your basic sense of decency and pride...alter your very notions of what's wrong and what's right...learn to be "open" when it comes to extramarital relations even though it goes against your most basic beliefs, learn to do it yourself even...all for the sake of maintaining a home for your children? For the sake of keeping their lives with as much normalcy as possible until the relationship can be easily (financially) ended?

At what point does your sense of pride and virtue outweigh the responsibility that you have to give your children a comfortable life?

YES, to protect them.

Never, I want my childrens trust and love.

YES, to provide for them.

PurpleJedi said:

How far would you go "against your better judgement" for the sake of your children?

• Would you lie?
• Would you cheat?
• Would you steal?
• Would you change who you are and go against your basic sense of decency and pride...alter your very notions of what's wrong and what's right...learn to be "open" when it comes to extramarital relations even though it goes against your most basic beliefs, learn to do it yourself even...all for the sake of maintaining a home for your children? For the sake of keeping their lives with as much normalcy as possible until the relationship can be easily (financially) ended?

At what point does your sense of pride and virtue outweigh the responsibility that you have to give your children a comfortable life?

I'm one of those kids that was very happy to see my father and umma break up. They argued tons of times. That you could not hide. The worse thing in the world is seeing my umma upset and the first time i saw her cry while trying to not let me see was completely devastating to me. I guess that's why i protect her from every man she meets.

Family is a big deal to me. It was a big deal to umma but my dad didn't grow up here so I think that was the issue. He didn't care.

As for me:

I would lie-to some extent. I'd say things were fine and everything is going to work out only if the problem was minor like cheating once on me or something.

I would never cheat.

I would never steal.

I could only swallow my pride if I knew that the problem could be forgiven and forgotten. If there comes time where I am never happy around him and cry every night and my children witness it. The damage is done and I will leave.

I think it's very important to let children know that you love them more than anything. It doesn't matter what house they live in. If you do that they will feel safe, I believe.

PurpleJedi said:

XxAxX said:

to save a life? no limit. to provide a comfortable home? limits. i'm not an expert but imo a home where mom and dad are not happy together can be traumatic, and provide kids with a bad example of how adult relationships should be. kids are resilient. in my opinion it's best to be upfront with them and also be true to oneself. i remember what you are going through from your prior thread. be kind to yourself. you are important too. i hope you are okay

I know that my kids are strong, and no matter what, they'll be OK.

But for the immediate time...if I pack my bags and leave, she can't handle the mortgage with what I'd give in child support. So it's losing the house - the only home they've known - and either they'd have to move into some roach-infested apartment or move down to Florida with my in-laws. Either way, their lives would be drastically worse.

So - even my therapist recommends BTW - we are "on hold" just being nice to each other and going about our normal daily routines. If I need to go out, I go out. If she needs to go out, she goes. No questions asked. At some point she can find a better paying job and I'll be able to walk away leaving them in a better place.

But, as much as most other guys would kill to have a permanent "hall pass", it's killing me. I have to bite my tongue and swallow my pride knowing full well that at any time when she's "out with the girls" she could be "out with the other man". Today is especially bitter...the kids are with my parents, and she's been out since this afternoon "with the girls".

I could go out and find someone myself, kill the bitterness with a sweet young thing of my own. But I'm still a married man, and I'm having a hard time letting go (regardless of how fucked up it is). I just can't do it. My therapist wants me to take the time to work on my own issues without the stress of being away from the kids and in some basement somewhere living like a hermit.

So here I am, confused, angry, and ranting on the Org. I just don't know what to do.

I'm not trying to make fun of you situation by any means. But THIS^ is one more reason why I'm in favor of pre-nups!

PurpleJedi said:

paintedlady said:

Kick her out... you raise the kids... sue her for support.

Everybody remains relatively happy, children keep their home.

I'm not badass enough to do that.

YET.

I think YOU don't give yourself enough credit... but it is always hard to make things new, change is always scary.

I think you are an awesome dad because you are not disconnected about everyone's feelings in this situation. It is so very easy to just think of oneself in such a time like this, but you are taking all things into consideration.

Don't stay with her if you are not happy... the kids will suffer. Money makes things a bit easier yes, but big house doesn't make a happy home, sometimes living leaner makes us stronger and better people.

I chose to live leaner, I could of had an easier time with a dual income coming in... but instead I chose to have a peaceful home, AND my kids are happy.

You do what ever works for you and your kids will thrive in any situation you are happy and healthy in.

My best to you and your family. No answer is a wrong answer if you make the best out of your situation and the kids learn from it in a healthy way.

stevierae said:

Wow.

Well it seems some of us agree that Daphne's response was pretty much invalid.

The thing is every one has their own lives, and just because you have children it doesn't mean you put your everything on hold for them. I really don't care what anyone else thinks otherwise. My parents are going through the same situation right now. My brother is 15 and I'm 19 - I decided last year to leave home and start a-new in a different country. That was my way with coping with it.

My brother and I have noticed the hardships between our parents for years now, since we were little kids. Now that I'm older I told both of my parents that their happiness is important to me and my brother. If they need to be seperate to have joy, then that's what they need to do...

The best thing you can do is get yourself out of this situation, and still be the loving father to your kids. Your wife as well. As long as they know that both of their parents love them still, they will be perfectly fine. Do NOT wait until your kids are older to move on with your life - that is truly unhealthy and I speak from personal experience!

Good luck to you, you have support here at the org, I hope it helps at least a tiny bit.

Great post!

I grew up without my father... I met him when I was 23. After getting to know him over the years I have come to find out that it was for the best that my father didn't raise me.

Now me and my father have a decent relationship despite his weird ways. I am not bitter and happy.

I am so glad you are happy too, and I agree with every word you posted. You are wise beyond your years.

stevierae said:

My brother and I have noticed the hardships between our parents for years now, since we were little kids. Now that I'm older I told both of my parents that their happiness is important to me and my brother. If they need to be seperate to have joy, then that's what they need to do...

The best thing you can do is get yourself out of this situation, and still be the loving father to your kids. Your wife as well. As long as they know that both of their parents love them still, they will be perfectly fine. Do NOT wait until your kids are older to move on with your life - that is truly unhealthy and I speak from personal experience!

Good luck to you, you have support here at the org, I hope it helps at least a tiny bit.

I honestly respect my mother more for taking 4 kids and moving out on her own and away from my father and his bullshit than I imagine I would've if she just dealt with it and left us to continue witnessing all of that.

Now I am 29 and divorced. While my daughter may miss me (she lives several states away), I think she has more peace in the home with her mother and I living apart. She and I talk daily and are still very active in each other's lives. Her mother and I get along better now than we ever did married. I also believe the independence her mother was forced to learn has made her a better role model for our daughter.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Wow, I can't believe people thinks its in the best interest of children to see their parents split up! No way!! That can ruin them and really cause them to rebel especially at your kids age of just going into their tween years. I say this:

You are their father, you should be willing to do whatever it takes to make sure they are happy and well taken care of. Please, put their feelings before your own. That includes, forgetting that you are miserable, and remembering that this stable home is best for them. I know that sucks, but they deserve it. You already know she can't afford the mortgage on her own, you signed on to take care of her to as your wife for better or for worse. Please remember that. This is your family here, don't leave them, until they are strong enough to survive on their own.

People that say "kids can tell" are wrong. Kids can only tell if you are putting it in their face! If you keep your composure and act normal (no fighting/arguing in front of them), then they will go on thinking things are normal for them. They DESERVE that. They are children, they don't need to be dealing with your adult issues, that is what messes kids up. No one believes in them being carefree. Don't tell them your issues, don't sleep in their bed. Sacrifice for them please. Suck it up, and continue to lay next to her, until your family is stable enough to be without you.

If you and your wife are truly done, then start doing things to move towards a split (without getiing kids involved) like starting to save more and perhaps your wife finding a higher paying job. This will prepare her to live on her own. Be sure that neither of you flaunt any new loves in front of each other or the kids anytime soon. Even if they act like it won't bother them, it will. They take this stuff to heart big time. Please wait before you do anything that could have lasting effects on your children.

I'm sorry you are going through this, but you COULD find your way back to your wife. I know she says no now, but that is common when a spouse has a hot new thing in life that is exciting. If you still love her and want things to work, don't give up so easily. This new guy probably won't work out, it usually doesn't. Give yourself some alone time to think things through, don't act on pain. Your kids don't deserve that. You and your wife can make this work for as long as you need to if you are both willing to try.

So I say, keep paying the bills, sleeping together, let her cook and clean, and let your kids going on with a loving family right now. Its best for them, please put their feelings before your own. They deserve that. Parents always sacrifice for their children, that seems to be what is needed in this situation. Would I do it for the sake of my kids...you damn right I would!

Can't say I agree with all of your post, but I do agree with the bold part. Even after my ex re-married, she was depressed upon hearing I found someone else. And I agree with the bringing new love interests around kids. I think it's better to feel it out a little while and introduce them if they are gonna be in the picture a while. Kids tend to get attached (more or less depending on age)

I think I went to far for my own daughter and it is hurting more then helping.

I moved back to the shitty city that I grew up in to be closer to my family, ie my mother and my sister. I am a single mom and this child was the only grandechild and my sister's only niece or nephew. Mom and I had an off and on relationship but sis and I never got along.

Mom loved my daughter to pieces and spent a great deal of time with her in the 21 months they had together. The sis spent seperate time with my daughter because my sis never got along with my mom really either. When my mother died suddenly I chose to stay around because I thought of how painful it would be to move and take my daughter away from my sister.

In the 7 years since my sister has done so many strange and underhanded things. I have been depressed because this tiny industrial city is no place for me, period. I have been fighting depression and now my daughter keeps talking about other places to live.

What I am trying to say is that my decision hurt me and was not appretiated at all. Not only that I think my daughter sees me as not having a spine when it comes to my sister. Anyway, I thought having an aunt in her life would have been a major plus but I regret that choice.

Deadflow3r said:

I think I went to far for my own daughter and it is hurting more then helping.

I moved back to the shitty city that I grew up in to be closer to my family, ie my mother and my sister. I am a single mom and this child was the only grandechild and my sister's only niece or nephew. Mom and I had an off and on relationship but sis and I never got along.

Mom loved my daughter to pieces and spent a great deal of time with her in the 21 months they had together. The sis spent seperate time with my daughter because my sis never got along with my mom really either. When my mother died suddenly I chose to stay around because I thought of how painful it would be to move and take my daughter away from my sister.

In the 7 years since my sister has done so many strange and underhanded things. I have been depressed because this tiny industrial city is no place for me, period. I have been fighting depression and now my daughter keeps talking about other places to live.

What I am trying to say is that my decision hurt me and was not appretiated at all. Not only that I think my daughter sees me as not having a spine when it comes to my sister. Anyway, I thought having an aunt in her life would have been a major plus but I regret that choice.

Yes, I understand how important it is to make the right decision for everyone involved.

What I now understand is that making a rash decision can be just as damaging as not making any decision at all. So I am taking things one step at a time and trying to work out these feelings. Then when my head is in the right state of being, I can move forward.

Family, to me, is such an important thing that I can definitely see myself choosing the same path that you did...even staying in a place that you really don't want to be in for the sake of maintaining that bond. But I guess that you're realizing how damaging that may be.

Whatever you do, move forward with no regrets. That's what I am trying to do. Never regret the decisions you make in life. Mistakes will always happen...you learn from them and move forward. (Words imparted to me...thank you friends.)

Your kids are old enough now to understand real life concepts like divorce.

It should be the primary concern to spare yourself first and your children 2nd. Look at it like an airplane emergency. You always put your own mask on first. If you are dead, you are of little use to your kids. Similarly (in this relationship), if you are going through immense pain, your kids will feel it too in various ways.

Leave her. In no unncertain terms, leave her. She has committed one of the highest forms of betrayal a partner can commit. You being in that environment while she is dating another dude underneath your vows is going to do more damage to you than the separation will.

Not only has this betrayal been to you, but it was to your kids as well. Now, I'm not telling you to encourage your kids to feel this way.... But let's call a spade a spade. She is committing emotional adultery and you are letting her sleep in your bed. Stop taking that kind of abuse. Stop letting your KIDS take that kind of abuse.

And I'd like to echo the thoughts of others who have said to keep it clean when it comes to the kids. Do not bad mouth her. Honesty is always the best policy, but don't shit talk her. You are better than that. Now start acting like it.

PurpleJedi said:

Deadflow3r said:

I think I went to far for my own daughter and it is hurting more then helping.

I moved back to the shitty city that I grew up in to be closer to my family, ie my mother and my sister. I am a single mom and this child was the only grandechild and my sister's only niece or nephew. Mom and I had an off and on relationship but sis and I never got along.

Mom loved my daughter to pieces and spent a great deal of time with her in the 21 months they had together. The sis spent seperate time with my daughter because my sis never got along with my mom really either. When my mother died suddenly I chose to stay around because I thought of how painful it would be to move and take my daughter away from my sister.

In the 7 years since my sister has done so many strange and underhanded things. I have been depressed because this tiny industrial city is no place for me, period. I have been fighting depression and now my daughter keeps talking about other places to live.

What I am trying to say is that my decision hurt me and was not appretiated at all. Not only that I think my daughter sees me as not having a spine when it comes to my sister. Anyway, I thought having an aunt in her life would have been a major plus but I regret that choice.

Yes, I understand how important it is to make the right decision for everyone involved.

What I now understand is that making a rash decision can be just as damaging as not making any decision at all. So I am taking things one step at a time and trying to work out these feelings. Then when my head is in the right state of being, I can move forward.

Family, to me, is such an important thing that I can definitely see myself choosing the same path that you did...even staying in a place that you really don't want to be in for the sake of maintaining that bond. But I guess that you're realizing how damaging that may be.

You are so right about this. Since I have come to truly understand that I can not change my sister's actions I have quietly been going about feeling my way around leaving. You don't want to just jump out of the fire and into the frying pan.

However, Spinlight is right in that we both have to move forward and not stay a minute longer then we have to because depression is no joke and that is what results from devalueing yourself for any length of time. Once you become depressed you also get apathetic and lethargic. Anyway, both you and I need to stay strong and energetic and possitive for our children.