How far would you go "against your better judgement" for the sake of your children?

• Would you lie?
• Would you cheat?
• Would you steal?
• Would you change who you are and go against your basic sense of decency and pride...alter your very notions of what's wrong and what's right...learn to be "open" when it comes to extramarital relations even though it goes against your most basic beliefs, learn to do it yourself even...all for the sake of maintaining a home for your children? For the sake of keeping their lives with as much normalcy as possible until the relationship can be easily (financially) ended?

At what point does your sense of pride and virtue outweigh the responsibility that you have to give your children a comfortable life?

how old are your kids?

i stayed with my husband "for the sake of the children" and that was the worst thing i could have done....

if it's wrong you just dont do it... for their sake

because children need to learn and understand from their mum about honesty and strength so they can be happy ppl

to save a life? no limit. to provide a comfortable home? limits. i'm not an expert but imo a home where mom and dad are not happy together can be traumatic, and provide kids with a bad example of how adult relationships should be. kids are resilient. in my opinion it's best to be upfront with them and also be true to oneself. i remember what you are going through from your prior thread. be kind to yourself. you are important too. i hope you are okay

ZombieKitten said:

how old are your kids?

9, 10½, 12½

XxAxX said:

to save a life? no limit. to provide a comfortable home? limits. i'm not an expert but imo a home where mom and dad are not happy together can be traumatic, and provide kids with a bad example of how adult relationships should be. kids are resilient. in my opinion it's best to be upfront with them and also be true to oneself. i remember what you are going through from your prior thread. be kind to yourself. you are important too. i hope you are okay

I know that my kids are strong, and no matter what, they'll be OK.

But for the immediate time...if I pack my bags and leave, she can't handle the mortgage with what I'd give in child support. So it's losing the house - the only home they've known - and either they'd have to move into some roach-infested apartment or move down to Florida with my in-laws. Either way, their lives would be drastically worse.

So - even my therapist recommends BTW - we are "on hold" just being nice to each other and going about our normal daily routines. If I need to go out, I go out. If she needs to go out, she goes. No questions asked. At some point she can find a better paying job and I'll be able to walk away leaving them in a better place.

But, as much as most other guys would kill to have a permanent "hall pass", it's killing me. I have to bite my tongue and swallow my pride knowing full well that at any time when she's "out with the girls" she could be "out with the other man". Today is especially bitter...the kids are with my parents, and she's been out since this afternoon "with the girls".

I could go out and find someone myself, kill the bitterness with a sweet young thing of my own. But I'm still a married man, and I'm having a hard time letting go (regardless of how fucked up it is). I just can't do it. My therapist wants me to take the time to work on my own issues without the stress of being away from the kids and in some basement somewhere living like a hermit.

So here I am, confused, angry, and ranting on the Org. I just don't know what to do.

PurpleJedi said:

ZombieKitten said:

how old are your kids?

9, 10½, 12½

OK, they are old enough to sense what's going down, unless they are all boys, in which case even if you TELL them they are probably not paying attention

So you are thinking that you and your wife live together but have a life outside of the home? like 2 singles sharing a family kind of arrangement? I think for that to work, you'd need a castle with his and hers wings

PurpleJedi said:

it's killing me.

bitter

I'm still a married man, and I'm having a hard time letting go (regardless of how fucked up it is). I just can't do it.

are you officially separated?

ZombieKitten said:

PurpleJedi said:

9, 10½, 12½

OK, they are old enough to sense what's going down, unless they are all boys, in which case even if you TELL them they are probably not paying attention

So you are thinking that you and your wife live together but have a life outside of the home? like 2 singles sharing a family kind of arrangement? I think for that to work, you'd need a castle with his and hers wings

Yeah, for that to work I'd need to be more like any of the millions of cheating husbands out there, who don't value the sanctity of the vows we took. I'd need to change WHO I AM.

THAT is the question.

The fact that my therapist agrees means that either;

a) I'm being too much of a whiny bitch and need to "man up" about it, or

b) I need a new therapist

PurpleJedi said:

ZombieKitten said:

OK, they are old enough to sense what's going down, unless they are all boys, in which case even if you TELL them they are probably not paying attention

So you are thinking that you and your wife live together but have a life outside of the home? like 2 singles sharing a family kind of arrangement? I think for that to work, you'd need a castle with his and hers wings

Yeah, for that to work I'd need to be more like any of the millions of cheating husbands out there, who don't value the sanctity of the vows we took. I'd need to change WHO I AM.

THAT is the question.

The fact that my therapist agrees means that either;

a) I'm being too much of a whiny bitch and need to "man up" about it, or

b) I need a new therapist

your therapist wants you to man up???? well that's like saying boys don't cry

that's just plain dumb

I can see that for you the arrangement is not likely to work.

ZombieKitten said:

PurpleJedi said:

it's killing me.

bitter

I'm still a married man, and I'm having a hard time letting go (regardless of how fucked up it is). I just can't do it.

are you officially separated?

No, not yet. We're still sleeping in the same bed for Christ's sake (I refuse to sleep on the sofa and I'm too big an idiot to make her do it).

PurpleJedi said:

ZombieKitten said:

are you officially separated?

No, not yet. We're still sleeping in the same bed for Christ's sake (I refuse to sleep on the sofa and I'm too big an idiot to make her do it).

if it's not official yet, then you have a right to know what she is doing, and if she wants to be with you it has to stop!

ZombieKitten said:

PurpleJedi said:

Yeah, for that to work I'd need to be more like any of the millions of cheating husbands out there, who don't value the sanctity of the vows we took. I'd need to change WHO I AM.

THAT is the question.

The fact that my therapist agrees means that either;

a) I'm being too much of a whiny bitch and need to "man up" about it, or

b) I need a new therapist

your therapist wants you to man up???? well that's like saying boys don't cry

that's just plain dumb

I can see that for you the arrangement is not likely to work.

NO, that's not what he said.

I have issues (esteem, confidence, etc.) that he wants to work on me, and his thought is that; a) it'll be easier for ME to heal if I'm in my "home" with my kids, and b) with some time, we could very well find our way back together (or I might decide she's not worth it and find someone else).

BUT...again, I have to be "OK" with the "open marriage" concept (even though he's not using that term). Supposedly she's not physically involved with the other man, it's just "texting" and "phone calls" to fill a "void in her life". But I'm not stupid. I'm a man. I know what new relationships are like...I can only imagine how exciting a "forbidden" one can be. If it hasn't happened, it's only a matter of time.

PurpleJedi said:

ZombieKitten said:

your therapist wants you to man up???? well that's like saying boys don't cry

that's just plain dumb

I can see that for you the arrangement is not likely to work.

NO, that's not what he said.

I have issues (esteem, confidence, etc.) that he wants to work on me, and his thought is that; a) it'll be easier for ME to heal if I'm in my "home" with my kids, and b) with some time, we could very well find our way back together (or I might decide she's not worth it and find someone else).

BUT...again, I have to be "OK" with the "open marriage" concept (even though he's not using that term). Supposedly she's not physically involved with the other man, it's just "texting" and "phone calls" to fill a "void in her life". But I'm not stupid. I'm a man. I know what new relationships are like...I can only imagine how exciting a "forbidden" one can be. If it hasn't happened, it's only a matter of time.

so, again, I'm wanting to know if you know what SHE wants, does she want YOU to continue to be in her life? If she can re-commit to you, and break if off with the other guy, start afresh, would you want her to stay with you?

ZombieKitten said:

PurpleJedi said:

NO, that's not what he said.

I have issues (esteem, confidence, etc.) that he wants to work on me, and his thought is that; a) it'll be easier for ME to heal if I'm in my "home" with my kids, and b) with some time, we could very well find our way back together (or I might decide she's not worth it and find someone else).

BUT...again, I have to be "OK" with the "open marriage" concept (even though he's not using that term). Supposedly she's not physically involved with the other man, it's just "texting" and "phone calls" to fill a "void in her life". But I'm not stupid. I'm a man. I know what new relationships are like...I can only imagine how exciting a "forbidden" one can be. If it hasn't happened, it's only a matter of time.

so, again, I'm wanting to know if you know what SHE wants, does she want YOU to continue to be in her life? If she can re-commit to you, and break if off with the other guy, start afresh, would you want her to stay with you?

She wants me to be in her life as the friend that she insists I've been (and nothing more). I'm a caring, loyal, nice person but not much of a spontaneous, exciting type of guy...which apparently was what she thought she wanted 15 years ago, but not any longer.

If she broke it off, and re-committed, I would be the happiest guy around. It's what I asked for a month ago, when I swore to do whatever I had to do to make things right as long as she broke it off with the other guy. But she refuses to do so, and wants me to go out and find "happiness" for myself.

SO, that's my conundrum. Stay, play the part of mom & dad, I pay most of the bills, she cooks and cleans, and we go out and have fun apart from each other.

PurpleJedi said:

ZombieKitten said:

so, again, I'm wanting to know if you know what SHE wants, does she want YOU to continue to be in her life? If she can re-commit to you, and break if off with the other guy, start afresh, would you want her to stay with you?

She wants me to be in her life as the friend that she insists I've been (and nothing more). I'm a caring, loyal, nice person but not much of a spontaneous, exciting type of guy...which apparently was what she thought she wanted 15 years ago, but not any longer.

If she broke it off, and re-committed, I would be the happiest guy around. It's what I asked for a month ago, when I swore to do whatever I had to do to make things right as long as she broke it off with the other guy. But she refuses to do so, and wants me to go out and find "happiness" for myself.

SO, that's my conundrum. Stay, play the part of mom & dad, I pay most of the bills, she cooks and cleans, and we go out and have fun apart from each other.

so she wants out

does your therapist know that?

He shouldn't be telling you there is a chance of getting back together then

what makes me mad is that until she met this guy, you were a husband to her. Now looking back on your life together, she compares that to the limmerance she is experiencing now with new man. You can't compare these things! Down the track he's not going to be exciting either

everything what nubbajoy said, AND

whatever happens, however difficult and awful you have it between the 2 of you, don't EVER talk badly of each each other to and in front of the kids they take it to heart, and their image of you changes, and you don't need that as well right now. Don't force them to take sides. Yeah, she's being a bitch, but she is still their MOTHER.

ZombieKitten said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

And don't sleep in the same bed anymore. If you can, double up your kids so you can have your own room. Tell them it is temporary & make sure it is temporary. Just my thoughts on the situation, take them or leave them. I just hope you end up happier in the end.

they are probably doing that for the kids sake, but it's not helping PJ at ALL, he's clearly suffering

ZombieKitten said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

ZombieKitten said:

they are probably doing that for the kids sake, but it's not helping PJ at ALL, he's clearly suffering

When my sister was 12 & I was 8 my parents started their split. Our folks moved us into the same room & my mother moved into the newly opened room. Our folks explained to us that they were divorcing, it wasn't our fault and even though they wouldn't be husband an wife anymore they would always be our mom & dad. My sister took it harder than I did, but in the end it helped begin to define our new normal.

my kid asked me today if daddy and I were going to divorce and which house were they going to live in!!????!!!!! he said he hoped I would keep this house and then he would choose to live here with me WTF!

I asked why did he think that, and it was because yesterday the master was giving me a hard time about not having dinner ready on time and we argued

Nothinbutjoy said:

Kids pick up so much and so little at the same time. Then, their imaginations go into overdrive. They are exhausting.

my kid asked me very chirpily, like a joke, so I'm sure he doesn't even begin to think anything like that could be true

When stuff is all wrong, believe me the children notice. It is better to make whatever changes that you can withstand and be honest with the kids about the changes if they inquire. Absolutely do not let them in on the financial woes you may face, that is way too stressful for kids. Just tell them about the changes and make them.

I know somebody who grew up with parents that slept apart, who kept the problems a secret, and that child thought this was the picture of a normal marriage, and kept that thought into adulthood. This facade of a marriage fucked up that person as an adult--their picture of a healthy relationship if beyond warped.

Pretending everything is okay does not work with kids. They need both adults to be honest. They need to feel secure and have consistency. They need to feel safe, and there cannot be any badmouthing of either spouse. More importantly they will need your love and understanding through any seperation. Their anxiety comes through uncertainty, so do help them to keep their lives as "normal" as possible while at the same time you take care of yourself and your emotional needs.

You cant give them what you dont have. If you are not happy, believe me, it is reflecting negatively onto them in some form. Take care of yourself so that you can be the best parent to them that you can be.

PurpleJedi said:

XxAxX said:

to save a life? no limit. to provide a comfortable home? limits. i'm not an expert but imo a home where mom and dad are not happy together can be traumatic, and provide kids with a bad example of how adult relationships should be. kids are resilient. in my opinion it's best to be upfront with them and also be true to oneself. i remember what you are going through from your prior thread. be kind to yourself. you are important too. i hope you are okay

I know that my kids are strong, and no matter what, they'll be OK.

But for the immediate time...if I pack my bags and leave, she can't handle the mortgage with what I'd give in child support. So it's losing the house - the only home they've known - and either they'd have to move into some roach-infested apartment or move down to Florida with my in-laws. Either way, their lives would be drastically worse.

So - even my therapist recommends BTW - we are "on hold" just being nice to each other and going about our normal daily routines. If I need to go out, I go out. If she needs to go out, she goes. No questions asked. At some point she can find a better paying job and I'll be able to walk away leaving them in a better place.

But, as much as most other guys would kill to have a permanent "hall pass", it's killing me. I have to bite my tongue and swallow my pride knowing full well that at any time when she's "out with the girls" she could be "out with the other man". Today is especially bitter...the kids are with my parents, and she's been out since this afternoon "with the girls".

I could go out and find someone myself, kill the bitterness with a sweet young thing of my own. But I'm still a married man, and I'm having a hard time letting go (regardless of how fucked up it is). I just can't do it. My therapist wants me to take the time to work on my own issues without the stress of being away from the kids and in some basement somewhere living like a hermit.

So here I am, confused, angry, and ranting on the Org. I just don't know what to do.

god have mercy. that sounds like hell. i am so sorry you are suffering. please hang in there and remember it WILL get better someday. i've never been exactly where you are, but i'm divorced and i do remember a long dreary period of no hope, constant tension, and some despair. then, i moved out. the very act of doing so was enough to give me the first flash of hope i'd felt in a looong time, after feeling like i'd never have that in my life again.

don't give up.

PurpleJedi said:

ZombieKitten said:

so, again, I'm wanting to know if you know what SHE wants, does she want YOU to continue to be in her life? If she can re-commit to you, and break if off with the other guy, start afresh, would you want her to stay with you?

She wants me to be in her life as the friend that she insists I've been (and nothing more). I'm a caring, loyal, nice person but not much of a spontaneous, exciting type of guy...which apparently was what she thought she wanted 15 years ago, but not any longer.

If she broke it off, and re-committed, I would be the happiest guy around. It's what I asked for a month ago, when I swore to do whatever I had to do to make things right as long as she broke it off with the other guy. But she refuses to do so, and wants me to go out and find "happiness" for myself.

SO, that's my conundrum. Stay, play the part of mom & dad, I pay most of the bills, she cooks and cleans, and we go out and have fun apart from each other.

Kick her out... you raise the kids... sue her for support.

Everybody remains relatively happy, children keep their home.

paintedlady said:

PurpleJedi said:

She wants me to be in her life as the friend that she insists I've been (and nothing more). I'm a caring, loyal, nice person but not much of a spontaneous, exciting type of guy...which apparently was what she thought she wanted 15 years ago, but not any longer.

If she broke it off, and re-committed, I would be the happiest guy around. It's what I asked for a month ago, when I swore to do whatever I had to do to make things right as long as she broke it off with the other guy. But she refuses to do so, and wants me to go out and find "happiness" for myself.

SO, that's my conundrum. Stay, play the part of mom & dad, I pay most of the bills, she cooks and cleans, and we go out and have fun apart from each other.

Kick her out... you raise the kids... sue her for support.

Everybody remains relatively happy, children keep their home.

I'm not badass enough to do that.

YET.

StillGotIt said:

When stuff is all wrong, believe me the children notice. It is better to make whatever changes that you can withstand and be honest with the kids about the changes if they inquire. Absolutely do not let them in on the financial woes you may face, that is way too stressful for kids. Just tell them about the changes and make them.

I know somebody who grew up with parents that slept apart, who kept the problems a secret, and that child thought this was the picture of a normal marriage, and kept that thought into adulthood. This facade of a marriage fucked up that person as an adult--their picture of a healthy relationship if beyond warped.

Pretending everything is okay does not work with kids. They need both adults to be honest. They need to feel secure and have consistency. They need to feel safe, and there cannot be any badmouthing of either spouse. More importantly they will need your love and understanding through any seperation. Their anxiety comes through uncertainty, so do help them to keep their lives as "normal" as possible while at the same time you take care of yourself and your emotional needs.

You cant give them what you dont have. If you are not happy, believe me, it is reflecting negatively onto them in some form. Take care of yourself so that you can be the best parent to them that you can be.

This post is spot on PurpleJedi. I'm sorry your family is going through all of this. Is there anyway through insurance or personal finances to get your children some therapy? Just a thought...