elmer said:

KoolEaze said:

That´s a very logical explanation that I hadn´t thought of when I wrote my post.

Speaking of Brits being exposed to American English every day...where do you see the future of British English in the near future? Do you think that certain American nouns, verbs, spellings and expressions will infiltrate British English for good? Sure, this would have happened much earlier if that were the case, but then again, these days there is so much more exposure to American English, and on top of that there is also much more of a cultural exchange due to studying or working abroad, global corporations etc.

I´m just curious....

And I´m actually quite surprised that British children still speak British English, considering that they watch a lot of American TV shows.

They don´t dub Sesame Street from American to British English, or do they?

How do British orgers who are ex-pats and who constantly meet English speakers from other countries feel about this whole debate?

As I said above in my previous post, as a non-native speaker, I have a more relaxed attitude.

American words and expressions are commonplace in Britain today, moreso amongst the under-25s, I often hear the rising inflexion that make a statement sound like a question. Language is constantly evolving anyway so it would be churlish to be too uptight about differences in vocabulary etc. I'm wholly in favour of different dialects.

As for pronunciation and spelling, certain conventions ought to be rigidly adhered to if we're gonna maintain the stance of speaking proper English, for the sake of preservation and decency.

Such as....?

I´m just asking out of curiousity, not because I disagree.

And where should one draw the line between dialect/accent or change of language on the one hand, and plain mistake on the other hand? (Again, I don´t disagree with you, just asking for your opinion, that´s all).

Militant said:

I don't really think I have a strong accent. What do you guys think? This is me narrating this clip.

You do have a strong accent! and I just love how you guys say the word "literally"

LOL, thanks.

People have sometimes asked if I'm Canadian or Australian, so I wasn't quite sure how obvious my accent is. I definitely DON'T have the regional accent of where I'm from (Birmingham).... AT ALL.

Gotta admit, I sometimes "play it up" a bit when I'm in the US because people seem to love it

Militant said:

LOL, thanks.

People have sometimes asked if I'm Canadian or Australian, so I wasn't quite sure how obvious my accent is. I definitely DON'T have the regional accent of where I'm from (Birmingham).... AT ALL.

Gotta admit, I sometimes "play it up" a bit when I'm in the US because people seem to love it

You´re from Handsworth, right?

One of my favorite Reggae groups from the 1980s is from there..Steel Pulse.

They had this album called Handsworth Revolution....I loved that one.

"The people of Handsworth,I know that

one hand wash the other,

so they say.. "

Great group, great music. I own almost all their albums from back in the days.

But they don´t speak the way you do. At least not in their songs.

KoolEaze said:

You´re from Handsworth, right?

One of my favorite Reggae groups from the 1980s is from there..Steel Pulse.

They had this album called Handsworth Revolution....I loved that one.

"The people of Handsworth,I know that

one hand wash the other,

so they say.. "

Great group, great music. I own almost all their albums from back in the days.

But they don´t speak the way you do. At least not in their songs.

I am indeed, and I know Steel Pulse very well. Their bass player Amlak is a friend of mine, and the lead singer David Hinds is a very good friend of my cousin. My cousin actually mixed their last two albums they put together but I'm not sure if they've been released. One of them was a live album and the other was an album with dub mixes of some of their most recent songs. "Handsworth Revolution" is an absolute classic. Real nice guys.

My cousins actually got their start in the music industry back in the 80's by coming up through the reggae scene. They worked with UB40 and then Warners hired them to produce an album for Stan Campbell from The Specials. Then, they produced and co-wrote an album with another cousin of ours, Apache Indian, called "No Reservations" which was picked up by Island Records and became a huge international seller. We're all really proud to be from Handsworth!

XxAxX said:

BlackAdder7 said:

madonna and i share quite a bit. i usually don't open up about our connection to just anyone but i feel safe here at the ORG. she and i are both originally from liverpool, england, which is a small town that stockpiles livers for english people. anyhoo, her accent has always been a bit broad so i taught her to say 'the rain in spain falls mainly on the plain'.

sweetie, you know i love you and believe you 100% and all, but wasn't that a movie? called, 'my fair lady?"

Militant said:

I don't really think I have a strong accent. What do you guys think? This is me narrating this clip.

way to rock the brett michaels bandana!!

KoolEaze said:

Here is a longer snippet from the very same interview with Madonna. When you read the Youtube user comments, you will notice that someone writes that she sounded British in the first 30 seconds and American in the last 30 seconds but honestly,

Madonna is neither English nor American. She is Italian.

dJJ said:

KoolEaze said:

Here is a longer snippet from the very same interview with Madonna. When you read the Youtube user comments, you will notice that someone writes that she sounded British in the first 30 seconds and American in the last 30 seconds but honestly,

Madonna is neither English nor American. She is Italian.

To be Italian, she would need to be born in Italy. She was born in Bay City Michigan. Her father was first generation Italian American and her mother was of French Canadian descent.

Edit: Oops missed out a word

[Edited 1/31/11 13:09pm]

KoolEaze said:

Sorry for getting a bit off topic. Back to your original question: I think that American English is much easier to learn, to pronounce and to mimick than British English. The proper register, intonation, sociolect, dialect and pronunciation are much more complex in the British English language, and another important factor is that England is a very old country compared to the USA, and older countries usually have a much broader spectrum of different regional dialects, and it takes a lot of dedication and time to really master it. My former teacher, who was a Londoner, always said that former German president Richard von Weizsäcker spoke almost perfect British English even though he only spent a relatively short time as a student in England after he finished school. Most linguists think that it´s almost impossible to speak a language without an accent after you´ve reached the age of 14 but I have a couple of Polish friends who learned German when they were 17 or 18, and today they speak German without an accent. There always seems to be an exception to the rule.

what is funny to me are people who can mimic!

I remember a pair of twins who came to Australia and started at my school at age 16. They were from Newcastle in the UK, so had a strong accent. Within a couple of months, one of them lost her accent completely! she was mimicking the Australian accent, ALL THE TIME lol

The other one could do it for minutes at a time but found it exhausting.

A friend of mine now from Mauritius, with a heavy french accent, works at GAP, and when she "standard" (she says "standahrd" and we sayd "standed"), nobody here can understand her, so she has to mimic the Australian accent and THEN they understand!

Militant said:

LOL, thanks.

People have sometimes asked if I'm Canadian or Australian, so I wasn't quite sure how obvious my accent is. I definitely DON'T have the regional accent of where I'm from (Birmingham).... AT ALL.

Gotta admit, I sometimes "play it up" a bit when I'm in the US because people seem to love it

you don't sound aussie or canadian at all you sound like a pom

ZombieKitten said:

you don't sound aussie or canadian at all you sound like a pom

I don't think I do either. But other people have said it on more than a few occasions. Which is weird.

elmer said:

FauxReal said:

I had the same reaction the first time I heard Idris Elba (Stringer Bell on "The Wire") speak. Had no idea dude was British.

Yeah, he seemed to be spot on, but McNulty's English accent leaks out, his phrasing constantly slipping became a distraction - in fact, I'm not sure what accent he was doing, it's definitely not the Baltimore of the other characters. Y'know the guy who played Mayor Carletti is Irish.

I don't think the Brits or Irish are generally any better equpped w/accents, just look at Jason Statham and Colin Farrell.

[Edited 1/31/11 5:42am]

WTF? McNulty too?

The wool has been pulled over my eyes.

Militant said:

ZombieKitten said:

you don't sound aussie or canadian at all you sound like a pom

I don't think I do either. But other people have said it on more than a few occasions. Which is weird.

They just don't know what one sounds like then.

My mum, with pretty heavy swedish accent, once got asked if she was from Ceylon Some people really have no idea!

I know I have an aussie accent, and some very observant people can tell there is a hint of something else there.

Canadians have accents?

I'm Canadian so I'm really curious. What does it sound like?

I think everyone who is not over 60 sounds American in Ontario. The older people get, the more they pronounce certain words differently from American english imo. American media has taken over televisions, radios, ads, and heck almost everyhting you can think of. That's why.

I notice Canadian english is very much influence by the English language in spelling and in some pronounciations but retains the North American accent.

I think Newfoundland and the Eastern coast has more of the accent because it's farther from American influences. I'm not sure about British Columbia. Oh and Quebec. It's like a whole different country out there.

Asymphony5 said:

Canadians have accents?

to everyone outside of Canada you do!

BlackAdder7 said:

madonna's an idiot.

post of the week

erik319 said:

Can I just point out that when American's talk about an 'English accent', 99% of them are actually talking about BBC English Accent (or occasionally a VERY bad cockney accent).

It's so rare to hear an American trying to attempt any other English accent that I actually can't think of anyone who's done it... successfully or otherwise. Can anyone else..?

No.

TheDigitalGardener said:

erik319 said:

Can I just point out that when American's talk about an 'English accent', 99% of them are actually talking about BBC English Accent (or occasionally a VERY bad cockney accent).

It's so rare to hear an American trying to attempt any other English accent that I actually can't think of anyone who's done it... successfully or otherwise. Can anyone else..?

No.

I thought the bullshit bullshit bullshit speech by Kristen Bell was quite good!

ZombieKitten said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

No.

I thought the bullshit bullshit bullshit speech by Kristen Bell was quite good!

Not familier with it, sorry.

ZombieKitten said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

No.

I thought the bullshit bullshit bullshit speech by Kristen Bell was quite good!

hahahahahahahahahahaha

"Oiiiim Aldous Snow, nao drinks fa me, thanks! bewshit bewshit bewshit"

Jonah Hill's was pretty funny in that movie too:

Militant said:

I don't really think I have a strong accent. What do you guys think? This is me narrating this clip.

You have a pretty strong accent to American ears.

I often wonder what Americans sound like to other people?

I love trying to speak in different accents. Sometimes my son and I break out our Shakespearian accents in public just to see people's reaction,

Asymphony5 said:

Canadians have accents?

I'm Canadian so I'm really curious. What does it sound like?

I think everyone who is not over 60 sounds American in Ontario. The older people get, the more they pronounce certain words differently from American english imo. American media has taken over televisions, radios, ads, and heck almost everyhting you can think of. That's why.

I notice Canadian english is very much influence by the English language in spelling and in some pronounciations but retains the North American accent.

I think Newfoundland and the Eastern coast has more of the accent because it's farther from American influences. I'm not sure about British Columbia. Oh and Quebec. It's like a whole different country out there.

I've lived in Ontario for four years, up from Ohio, and you guys do largely sound like Midwestern Americans to me. But every now and again, you do very noticeable things with vowels. Often...

* Your "o" in process and sorry is long.

* Your second "a" in again is long.

* Your been sounds like bean, not bin.

* Your about sounds like a boat.

* The British "u" you guys retain in spellings like "neighbour" and "behaviour" sometimes does play out in your pronunciations.

Elsewhere, too, I notice many Canadians pronounce schedule with an opening "sh..." instead of "sk...."

I do find this stuff more pronounced in older Canadians and prairie folk. And there is regional stuff going on, too: British Columbians often have a drawl not unlike California's; and folk from the Maritimes (and, yes, particularly Newfoundland and Labrador) sound really odd to me -- almost Irish or something. And then, of course, there's... the Quebecois.

Beyond Quebec, I didn't expect all the variation. It's actually been a cool little surprise.

[Edited 1/31/11 18:22pm]

Lammastide said:

Asymphony5 said:

Canadians have accents?

I'm Canadian so I'm really curious. What does it sound like?

I think everyone who is not over 60 sounds American in Ontario. The older people get, the more they pronounce certain words differently from American english imo. American media has taken over televisions, radios, ads, and heck almost everyhting you can think of. That's why.

I notice Canadian english is very much influence by the English language in spelling and in some pronounciations but retains the North American accent.

I think Newfoundland and the Eastern coast has more of the accent because it's farther from American influences. I'm not sure about British Columbia. Oh and Quebec. It's like a whole different country out there.

I've lived in Ontario for four years, up from Ohio, and you guys do largely sound like Midwestern Americans to me. But every now and again, you do very noticeable things with vowels. Often...

* Your "o" in process and sorry is long.

* Your second "a" in again is long.

* Your been sounds like bean, not bin.

* Your about sounds like a boat.

* The British "u" you guys retain in spellings like "neighbour" and "behaviour" sometimes does play out in your pronunciations.

Elsewhere, too, I notice many Canadians pronounce schedule with an opening "sh..." instead of "sk...."

I do find this stuff more pronounced in older Canadians and prairie folk. And there is regional stuff going on, too: British Columbians often have a drawl not unlike California's; and folk from the Maritimes (and, yes, particularly Newfoundland and Labrador) sound really odd to me -- almost Irish or something. And then, of course, there's... the Quebecois.

Beyond Quebec, I didn't expect all the variation. It's actually been a cool little surprise.

[Edited 1/31/11 18:22pm]

How's it going eh?

luv4u said:

How's it going eh?

Certainly can't forget that!

...Or "zed."

TheDigitalGardener said:

erik319 said:

Can I just point out that when American's talk about an 'English accent', 99% of them are actually talking about BBC English Accent (or occasionally a VERY bad cockney accent).

It's so rare to hear an American trying to attempt any other English accent that I actually can't think of anyone who's done it... successfully or otherwise. Can anyone else..?

No.

I was surprised to find out James Marsters wasn't British after seeing him for years on Buffy The Vampire Slayer.

Lammastide said:

Asymphony5 said:

Canadians have accents?

I'm Canadian so I'm really curious. What does it sound like?

I think everyone who is not over 60 sounds American in Ontario. The older people get, the more they pronounce certain words differently from American english imo. American media has taken over televisions, radios, ads, and heck almost everyhting you can think of. That's why.

I notice Canadian english is very much influence by the English language in spelling and in some pronounciations but retains the North American accent.

I think Newfoundland and the Eastern coast has more of the accent because it's farther from American influences. I'm not sure about British Columbia. Oh and Quebec. It's like a whole different country out there.

I've lived in Ontario for four years, up from Ohio, and you guys do largely sound like Midwestern Americans to me. But every now and again, you do very noticeable things with vowels. Often...

* Your "o" in process and sorry is long.

* Your second "a" in again is long.

* Your been sounds like bean, not bin.

* Your about sounds like a boat.

* The British "u" you guys retain in spellings like "neighbour" and "behaviour" sometimes does play out in your pronunciations.

Elsewhere, too, I notice many Canadians pronounce schedule with an opening "sh..." instead of "sk...."

I do find this stuff more pronounced in older Canadians and prairie folk. And there is regional stuff going on, too: British Columbians often have a drawl not unlike California's; and folk from the Maritimes (and, yes, particularly Newfoundland and Labrador) sound really odd to me -- almost Irish or something. And then, of course, there's... the Quebecois.

Beyond Quebec, I didn't expect all the variation. It's actually been a cool little surprise.

[Edited 1/31/11 18:22pm]

I know that Canadians use British spelling but while doing some research on American and British spelling I found this little remark on an Apple discussion board where Apple users are complaining about the American spelling (and lack of Canadian or British spelling) in some of Apple´s products.

"The non-existence of Canadian English on my iPhone drives me mental! I dealt with the American spelling for ages, then switched to British English for a while to see if it would bother me less… no dice. Both are equally irksome. If Facebook can do it’s entire site over in Pirate, Apple can surely do up a Canadian language setting."

My question is....why would a Canadian person find British spelling just as irksome as American spelling, like the quote above suggests? I mean, isn´t British spelling pretty much what they use in Canada?

Regarding the pronunciation, I can´t really hear the difference between US Midwesterners and Canadians. People like Pamela Anderson, Michael J.Fox and Tommy Chong always sound like typical US Americans to me, not just in their movie roles but also in interviews but yes, I have also noticed that the older generation uses a slightly different pronunciation.

A friend of mine is from BC and I find his pronunciation very precise and clear, maybe due to his academic background, but I can´t really say that he sounds any different compared to a US American from Northern California, so I pretty much agree with you.

KoolEaze said:

Lammastide said:

I've lived in Ontario for four years, up from Ohio, and you guys do largely sound like Midwestern Americans to me. But every now and again, you do very noticeable things with vowels. Often...

* Your "o" in process and sorry is long.

* Your second "a" in again is long.

* Your been sounds like bean, not bin.

* Your about sounds like a boat.

* The British "u" you guys retain in spellings like "neighbour" and "behaviour" sometimes does play out in your pronunciations.

Elsewhere, too, I notice many Canadians pronounce schedule with an opening "sh..." instead of "sk...."

I do find this stuff more pronounced in older Canadians and prairie folk. And there is regional stuff going on, too: British Columbians often have a drawl not unlike California's; and folk from the Maritimes (and, yes, particularly Newfoundland and Labrador) sound really odd to me -- almost Irish or something. And then, of course, there's... the Quebecois.

Beyond Quebec, I didn't expect all the variation. It's actually been a cool little surprise.

[Edited 1/31/11 18:22pm]

I know that Canadians use British spelling but while doing some research on American and British spelling I found this little remark on an Apple discussion board where Apple users are complaining about the American spelling (and lack of Canadian or British spelling) in some of Apple´s products.

"The non-existence of Canadian English on my iPhone drives me mental! I dealt with the American spelling for ages, then switched to British English for a while to see if it would bother me less… no dice. Both are equally irksome. If Facebook can do it’s entire site over in Pirate, Apple can surely do up a Canadian language setting."

My question is....why would a Canadian person find British spelling just as irksome as American spelling, like the quote above suggests? I mean, isn´t British spelling pretty much what they use in Canada?

Regarding the pronunciation, I can´t really hear the difference between US Midwesterners and Canadians. People like Pamela Anderson, Michael J.Fox and Tommy Chong always sound like typical US Americans to me, not just in their movie roles but also in interviews but yes, I have also noticed that the older generation uses a slightly different pronunciation.

A friend of mine is from BC and I find his pronunciation very precise and clear, maybe due to his academic background, but I can´t really say that he sounds any different compared to a US American from Northern California, so I pretty much agree with you.

Canadian English is neither exactly American nor British. Where spelling is concerned, it's a hybrid of the two. (This website highlights some variations.) I haven't run into a lot of folk who hold an exclusivist position; in most applications, either an American or British spelling would be fine so long as there is consistency throughout. The Apple customer you cite is probably typical in that he feels comfortable and wants to retain the latitude to use both. Apple, then, might allow for dual spellings and the occasional British convention of dropping the article in front of a noun. (e.g. "I was in hospital" vs. " I was in the hospital.") Then, with a dictionary that accommodates vocabulary influences from Acadian and Quebecois French, some aboriginal tongues and certain isolated regions in the north and east of Canada, they should be OK.

Where pronunciation is regarded, I think you're right: Many internationally marketed Canadian celebrities and younger folk have no discernably Canadian accent. I've got no solid reason for this except to suggest the Midwestern American accent is pretty expansive and therefore held as the Standard American English in mass media. Professionals and younger folk who primarily/regularly engage American media (and this describes most English-speaking Canadians) operate with that cultural default, I'm thinking, with local nuances in speech existing with a growing subtlety. Also, the particular celebrities you mentioned spent much of their formative time in southern B.C., where, as we've suggested, the speech patterns bear nothing really marked -- they sound vaguely Northern Californian/Pacific Northwest. And then they're actors, too, and might actively have gained a conditioning to speak with the Standard accent. On the other hand, I find musicians, for example, to be less beholden to this sort of thing. When you get a chance, pay attention to the way Alanis Morrisette, Fefe Dobson, Feist or Avril Lavigne speak. I've noticed they sound more identifiably Canadian.