Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality

by Christopher Ryan

These 2 reviews copied from Amazon.com sum it up pretty good:

“A wonderfully provocative and well-written book which completely re-evaluates human sexual behaviour and gets to the root of many of our social and psychological ills.” (Steve Taylor, author of The Fall and Waking From Sleep )

“Sex At Dawn is the single most important book about human sexuality since Alfred Kinsey unleashed Sexual Behavior in the Human Male on the American public in 1948.” (Dan Savage )

[img:$uid]http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/books-about-love/12-8.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/bestsellers-2006/1457-1.jpg[/img:$uid]

Cerebus said:

Finishing up a couple of Trek books from a long series of books that tied in to each other. Then I'm going to read my Christmas present books. I got these, and I'm pretty excited to read all of them...

The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún is a previously unpublished work by J.R.R. Tolkien, written while Tolkien was Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford during the 1920s and ‘30s, before he wrote The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It makes available for the first time Tolkien’s extensive retelling in English narrative verse of the epic Norse tales of Sigurd the Völsung and The Fall of the Niflungs. It includes an introduction by J.R.R. Tolkien, drawn from one of his own lectures on Norse literature, with commentary and notes on the poems by Christopher Tolkien.

A beautiful boxed set: the definitive examination of how Tolkien came to write his original masterpiece, including the complete unpublished draft and little-known illustrations and unpublished maps, along with a new edition of the classic work itself.

First published in 1938, The Hobbit is a story that “grew in the telling,” and many characters and events in the published book are completely different from what Tolkien first wrote to read aloud to his young sons as part of their “fireside reads.” For the first time, The History of the Hobbit reproduces the original version of one of literature’s most famous stories, and includes many little-known illustrations and previously unpublished maps for The Hobbit created by Tolkien himself. Also featured are extensive annotations and commentaries on the date of composition, how Tolkien’s professional and early mythological writings influenced the story, the imaginary geography he created, and how he came to revise the book in the years after publication to accommodate events in The Lord of the Rings.

These two volumes are boxed together with a new edition of The Hobbit with a short introduction by Christopher Tolkien, a reset text incorporating the most up-to-date corrections, and all of Tolkien’s own drawings and color illustrations, including the rare “Mirkwood” piece.

Even though I hate Christopher's writing.

PunkMistress said:

Cerebus said:

Finishing up a couple of Trek books from a long series of books that tied in to each other. Then I'm going to read my Christmas present books. I got these, and I'm pretty excited to read all of them...

The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún is a previously unpublished work by J.R.R. Tolkien, written while Tolkien was Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford during the 1920s and ‘30s, before he wrote The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It makes available for the first time Tolkien’s extensive retelling in English narrative verse of the epic Norse tales of Sigurd the Völsung and The Fall of the Niflungs. It includes an introduction by J.R.R. Tolkien, drawn from one of his own lectures on Norse literature, with commentary and notes on the poems by Christopher Tolkien.

A beautiful boxed set: the definitive examination of how Tolkien came to write his original masterpiece, including the complete unpublished draft and little-known illustrations and unpublished maps, along with a new edition of the classic work itself.

First published in 1938, The Hobbit is a story that “grew in the telling,” and many characters and events in the published book are completely different from what Tolkien first wrote to read aloud to his young sons as part of their “fireside reads.” For the first time, The History of the Hobbit reproduces the original version of one of literature’s most famous stories, and includes many little-known illustrations and previously unpublished maps for The Hobbit created by Tolkien himself. Also featured are extensive annotations and commentaries on the date of composition, how Tolkien’s professional and early mythological writings influenced the story, the imaginary geography he created, and how he came to revise the book in the years after publication to accommodate events in The Lord of the Rings.

These two volumes are boxed together with a new edition of The Hobbit with a short introduction by Christopher Tolkien, a reset text incorporating the most up-to-date corrections, and all of Tolkien’s own drawings and color illustrations, including the rare “Mirkwood” piece.

Even though I hate Christopher's writing.

I TOTALLY agree! I own all the 'History Of Middle-Earth' volumes and I've read nearly every page. Sometimes I'll be reading along and I'll realize that I don't remember a damn thing from the last few paragraphs. I've read it, but I haven't processed it at all. His writing is just so damn dry and purposefully scholarly. No attempt to bring any excitment or adventure the to proceeding at all.

However, have you read 'The Children Of Hurin'? That's 95% JRR with only some edits, moving around of text pieces and a very small bit of writing by Christopher. I really enjoyed that book! It reminded me more of the stories in The Silmarillion than LOTR or The Hobbit.

I've started reading 'The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún' already and I skipped the extensive introductions and other notes at the beginning. The book is essentially just two large poems ("English narrative verse" - I love how they snuck that in on people ) with a bunch of notes and annotations from Christopher. I think I'll just read the poems and let them sink in for a while before I take a crack at the notes.

The Hobbit research volumes are (thankfully!) NOT by Christopher Tolkien, but some other Tolkien scholar named John Rateliff. I'm very excited to break into both of those, but MAAAAAAN is the text small! It's already two HEAVY volumes (Houghton Mifflin did a great job - very high archival qaulity to the whole set), so I really wasn't expecting I'd need a magnifying glass to read the print (I don't, really, but it is very small). More exciting is this version of The Hobbit itself (which can be purchased seperately). I've heard very good things about this edition of the book.

I know it is not that inspired or impressive, but ...

NDRU said:

I know it is not that inspired or impressive, but ...

No, it's just totally freakin' awesome!

Cerebus said:

NDRU said:

I know it is not that inspired or impressive, but ...

No, it's just totally freakin' awesome!

I have a bit of a love/hate thing with H.P.

I find the books entertaining enough and the series continued to get better. She deserves credit for that, but I can't quite get over that compared to a Tolkein or a CS Lewis the writing is very mediocre. She seems like a very lucky writer to have captured the world's attention so fully.

But I am definitely enjoying it.

[Edited 12/30/10 17:37pm]

Cerebus said:

PunkMistress said:

Even though I hate Christopher's writing.

I TOTALLY agree! I own all the 'History Of Middle-Earth' volumes and I've read nearly every page. Sometimes I'll be reading along and I'll realize that I don't remember a damn thing from the last few paragraphs. I've read it, but I haven't processed it at all. His writing is just so damn dry and purposefully scholarly. No attempt to bring any excitment or adventure the to proceeding at all.

However, have you read 'The Children Of Hurin'? That's 95% JRR with only some edits, moving around of text pieces and a very small bit of writing by Christopher. I really enjoyed that book! It reminded me more of the stories in The Silmarillion than LOTR or The Hobbit.

I've started reading 'The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún' already and I skipped the extensive introductions and other notes at the beginning. The book is essentially just two large poems ("English narrative verse" - I love how they snuck that in on people ) with a bunch of notes and annotations from Christopher. I think I'll just read the poems and let them sink in for a while before I take a crack at the notes.

The Hobbit research volumes are (thankfully!) NOT by Christopher Tolkien, but some other Tolkien scholar named John Rateliff. I'm very excited to break into both of those, but MAAAAAAN is the text small! It's already two HEAVY volumes (Houghton Mifflin did a great job - very high archival qaulity to the whole set), so I really wasn't expecting I'd need a magnifying glass to read the print (I don't, really, but it is very small). More exciting is this version of The Hobbit itself (which can be purchased seperately). I've heard very good things about this edition of the book.

Word!

You are sooooo my internet friend!

I haven't read The Children of Hurin. I loved The Silmarillion, but couldn't get through Unfinished Tales. I don't even remember why.

NDRU said:

Cerebus said:

No, it's just totally freakin' awesome!

I have a bot of a love/hate thing with H.P.

I find the books entertaining enough and the series continued to get better. She deserves credit for that, but I can't quite get over that compared to a Tolkein or a CS Lewis the writing is very mediocre. She seems like a very lucky writer to have captured the world's attention so fully.

But I am definitely enjoying it.

There's all kinds of way I can look at this, but I don't think any of them take away from what she's accomplished.

She's not a linguist or a scholar, so I wouldn't expect her to write the same way. No argument for her writing not being on their level - it's just not. But I've read A LOT of fantasy books that are far, FAR worse and much less original than hers.

Tolkien also "borrowed" heavily from other myth and legend when creating his own world. Lewis did not create many of the creatures used in his own heavily allegorical works. Were they better writers? Yes. Does that make her a bad writer? Personally, I don't think so. And I don't think that makes her ideas less interesting or powerful than theirs. They're just different. Their intentions were different and their styles are different. That's the first part.

The second part is that once you've finished all seven books (I'm not sure if you have done so previously or not) and possibly given all of them a re-read it becomes clear just how much foresight, planning and imagination she used in their creation. They aren't perfect - I've would never proclaimed them such. In fact, there's a couple parts that should probably have been moved to other books and there's a couple books (or passages, at least) that could use some editing (she didn't have that luxory, though, because her publisher and the world was waiting for each book). But in general, from book one to book seven, the storylines that she weaves together are incredible. Much more intricate (on a small, intimate scale, of course) and occasionally more interesting than the LOTR trilogy, which I count as some of my favorite works of fiction (due largely to the quality of the writing and intricacy of the world Tolkien created).

Lastly, that she did a majority of this with the world holding it's collective breath while waiting for each book is nothing short of astonishing. I kept thinking she would fail miserably at some point, but she never did (imo). And no one can EVER take away from her that fact that she introduced (and re-introduced) the joy of reading to generations of people around the world.

Edit: So I could change work to world in "intricacy of the world Tolkien created", but NDRU already quoted me, so... crap!

[Edited 12/30/10 17:54pm]

PunkMistress said:

You are sooooo my internet friend!

I haven't read The Children of Hurin. I loved The Silmarillion, but couldn't get through Unfinished Tales. I don't even remember why.

Sweet!

Read 'The Children of Hurin'. If you loved the Silmarillion I'm pretty sure you'll get through it in a day or two. It's a great story and it's not very long. I think the story itself (minus introductions, notes, geneologies and appendicies - of which there are many) takes up about 250 pages of the book.

I've read all of 'Unfinished Tales' and both volumes of 'The Book of Lost Tales' over the years, but I've never read them straight through. I'd just pick out a section or two and tackle that. When I find one I really love (which I have) I go back and re-read it from time to time.

Now I think I need to stop geeking out all over the org and go watch some Angel.

Cerebus said:

NDRU said:

I have a bot of a love/hate thing with H.P.

I find the books entertaining enough and the series continued to get better. She deserves credit for that, but I can't quite get over that compared to a Tolkein or a CS Lewis the writing is very mediocre. She seems like a very lucky writer to have captured the world's attention so fully.

But I am definitely enjoying it.

There's all kinds of way I can look at this, but I don't think any of them take away from what she's accomplished.

She's not a linguist or a scholar, so I wouldn't expect her to write the same way. No argument for her writing not being on their level - it's just not. But I've read A LOT of fantasy books that are far, FAR worse and much less original than hers.

Tolkien also "borrowed" heavily from other myth and legend when creating his own world. Lewis did not create many of the creatures used in his own heavily allegorical works. Were they better writers? Yes. Does that make her a bad writer? Personally, I don't think so. And I don't think that makes her ideas less interesting or powerful than theirs. They're just different. Their intentions were different and their styles are different. That's the first part.

The second part is that once you've finished all seven books (I'm not sure if you have done so previously or not) and possibly given all of them a re-read it becomes clear just how much foresight, planning and imagination she used in their creation. They aren't perfect - I've would never proclaimed them such. In fact, there's a couple parts that should probably have been moved to other books and there's a couple books (or passages, at least) that could use some editing (she didn't have that luxory, though, because her publisher and the world was waiting for each book). But in general, from book one to book seven, the storylines that she weaves together are incredible. Much more intricate (on a small, intimate scale, of course) and occasionally more interesting than the LOTR trilogy, which I count as some of my favorite works of fiction (due largely to the quality of the writing and intricacy of the work Tolkien created).

Lastly, that she did a majority of this with the world holding it's collective breath while waiting for each book is nothing short of astonishing. I kept thinking she would fail miserably at some point, but she never did (imo). And no one can EVER take away from her that fact that she introduced (and re-introduced) the joy of reading to generations of people around the world.

yes, I agree with all of that. She does deserve credit, especially with all the pressure (as you said) to produce another book, she managed to do so effortlessly (it seemed) giving everyone exactly what they wanted. Made 1000 page books that people were eating up! And she never failed to deliver as did, say, Stephen King during the Dark Tower series.

But the series does not have the weight or present the seamless world of Lewis & Tolkein. It is a little clunky and unemotional to me. Still, that is comparing to the best, which isn't really fair.

But the triumph is one of storytelling, not writing. And she did triumph. Can't take away from her accomplishment, you are right, but they will never be counted among my favorite books.

NDRU said:

Cerebus said:

No, it's just totally freakin' awesome!

I have a bit of a love/hate thing with H.P.

I find the books entertaining enough and the series continued to get better. She deserves credit for that, but I can't quite get over that compared to a Tolkein or a CS Lewis the writing is very mediocre. She seems like a very lucky writer to have captured the world's attention so fully.

But I am definitely enjoying it.

[Edited 12/30/10 17:37pm]

I could never get into any Tolkien books, but I devoured the Narnias as a kid. I've read HP first 2 books, but didn't really feel compelled to continue, perhaps if I was still a kid?

Right now...

ZombieKitten said:

NDRU said:

I have a bit of a love/hate thing with H.P.

I find the books entertaining enough and the series continued to get better. She deserves credit for that, but I can't quite get over that compared to a Tolkein or a CS Lewis the writing is very mediocre. She seems like a very lucky writer to have captured the world's attention so fully.

But I am definitely enjoying it.

[Edited 12/30/10 17:37pm]

I could never get into any Tolkien books, but I devoured the Narnias as a kid. I've read HP first 2 books, but didn't really feel compelled to continue, perhaps if I was still a kid?

First of all

I never really felt like I was reading kids books. Didn't even understand the designation. Regardless, the third book is where things start to get heavy and VERY un-kid like. Dementors suck... literally!

NDRU said:

I know it is not that inspired or impressive, but ...

ZombieKitten said:

NDRU said:

I have a bit of a love/hate thing with H.P.

I find the books entertaining enough and the series continued to get better. She deserves credit for that, but I can't quite get over that compared to a Tolkein or a CS Lewis the writing is very mediocre. She seems like a very lucky writer to have captured the world's attention so fully.

But I am definitely enjoying it.

[Edited 12/30/10 17:37pm]

I could never get into any Tolkien books, but I devoured the Narnias as a kid. I've read HP first 2 books, but didn't really feel compelled to continue, perhaps if I was still a kid?

I thought the HP books were for kids, too...

But then I took a graduate course for my major (Educational Sociology) called "Pop Culture & Education" where we examined how media portrays schooling.

He assigned us the first and fifth books: We broke down the Hogwarts schools- the classes, teachers, environment- in the 1st book. In the 5th, we examined the effects of government takeover on schooling through the Wizard's Council takeover of Hogwarts.

I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of writing and the storyline, so I went back and read books 2,3, and 4. Then I eagerly awaited the last two.

XxAxX said:

i just finished a slew of preston-child books. (Brimstone, Cabinet of Curiosities, Book of the Dead, Dance with Death) excellent thrill ride reads.

I was silly enough to read Wheel of Darkness while on a cruise!

Efan said:

Right now...

I enjoyed this.

I'm not reading anything presently. I keep downloading samples of books but then never bothering to read the whole book. Nothing has interested me enough to actually buy it.

NDRU said:

Cerebus said:

There's all kinds of way I can look at this, but I don't think any of them take away from what she's accomplished.

She's not a linguist or a scholar, so I wouldn't expect her to write the same way. No argument for her writing not being on their level - it's just not. But I've read A LOT of fantasy books that are far, FAR worse and much less original than hers.

Tolkien also "borrowed" heavily from other myth and legend when creating his own world. Lewis did not create many of the creatures used in his own heavily allegorical works. Were they better writers? Yes. Does that make her a bad writer? Personally, I don't think so. And I don't think that makes her ideas less interesting or powerful than theirs. They're just different. Their intentions were different and their styles are different. That's the first part.

The second part is that once you've finished all seven books (I'm not sure if you have done so previously or not) and possibly given all of them a re-read it becomes clear just how much foresight, planning and imagination she used in their creation. They aren't perfect - I've would never proclaimed them such. In fact, there's a couple parts that should probably have been moved to other books and there's a couple books (or passages, at least) that could use some editing (she didn't have that luxory, though, because her publisher and the world was waiting for each book). But in general, from book one to book seven, the storylines that she weaves together are incredible. Much more intricate (on a small, intimate scale, of course) and occasionally more interesting than the LOTR trilogy, which I count as some of my favorite works of fiction (due largely to the quality of the writing and intricacy of the work Tolkien created).

Lastly, that she did a majority of this with the world holding it's collective breath while waiting for each book is nothing short of astonishing. I kept thinking she would fail miserably at some point, but she never did (imo). And no one can EVER take away from her that fact that she introduced (and re-introduced) the joy of reading to generations of people around the world.

yes, I agree with all of that. She does deserve credit, especially with all the pressure (as you said) to produce another book, she managed to do so effortlessly (it seemed) giving everyone exactly what they wanted. Made 1000 page books that people were eating up! And she never failed to deliver as did, say, Stephen King during the Dark Tower series.

But the series does not have the weight or present the seamless world of Lewis & Tolkein. It is a little clunky and unemotional to me. Still, that is comparing to the best, which isn't really fair.

But the triumph is one of storytelling, not writing. And she did triumph. Can't take away from her accomplishment, you are right, but they will never be counted among my favorite books.

I enjoyed both the LOTR and the Potter series, but I would say Tolkein's tales are certainly more epic in the telling.

I still have to hold JK Rowling as sort of a hero of mine for what she was able to achieve considering that she came from no particular pedigree.

By contrast I found Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series to be truly awful.

Shoewhore said:

Efan said:

Right now...

I enjoyed this.

I'm not reading anything presently. I keep downloading samples of books but then never bothering to read the whole book. Nothing has interested me enough to actually buy it.

It's a lot more fun than I thought it would be. Since Farnsworth is a screenwriter, it's got that movie-script style about it, but that's fine. It's the epitome of a good plane ride read, for me.

Efan said:

Shoewhore said:

I enjoyed this.

I'm not reading anything presently. I keep downloading samples of books but then never bothering to read the whole book. Nothing has interested me enough to actually buy it.

It's a lot more fun than I thought it would be. Since Farnsworth is a screenwriter, it's got that movie-script style about it, but that's fine. It's the epitome of a good plane ride read, for me.

Oh yes, it's got "movie" written all over it! It was a fun read though.

"Liber Null & Psychonaut" by Peter J. Carroll

poetry by kenji miyazawa

i'll try to finish yukio mishima confessions of a mask

a bunch of children fantasy novels

and the king of elfland's daughter by lord dunsany

chocolate1 said:

ZombieKitten said:

I could never get into any Tolkien books, but I devoured the Narnias as a kid. I've read HP first 2 books, but didn't really feel compelled to continue, perhaps if I was still a kid?

I thought the HP books were for kids, too...

But then I took a graduate course for my major (Educational Sociology) called "Pop Culture & Education" where we examined how media portrays schooling.

He assigned us the first and fifth books: We broke down the Hogwarts schools- the classes, teachers, environment- in the 1st book. In the 5th, we examined the effects of government takeover on schooling through the Wizard's Council takeover of Hogwarts.

I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of writing and the storyline, so I went back and read books 2,3, and 4. Then I eagerly awaited the last two.

OK, so it would be more interesting to me if I was a teacher

ZombieKitten said:

chocolate1 said:

I thought the HP books were for kids, too...

But then I took a graduate course for my major (Educational Sociology) called "Pop Culture & Education" where we examined how media portrays schooling.

He assigned us the first and fifth books: We broke down the Hogwarts schools- the classes, teachers, environment- in the 1st book. In the 5th, we examined the effects of government takeover on schooling through the Wizard's Council takeover of Hogwarts.

I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of writing and the storyline, so I went back and read books 2,3, and 4. Then I eagerly awaited the last two.

OK, so it would be more interesting to me if I was a teacher

babynoz said:

NDRU said:

yes, I agree with all of that. She does deserve credit, especially with all the pressure (as you said) to produce another book, she managed to do so effortlessly (it seemed) giving everyone exactly what they wanted. Made 1000 page books that people were eating up! And she never failed to deliver as did, say, Stephen King during the Dark Tower series.

But the series does not have the weight or present the seamless world of Lewis & Tolkein. It is a little clunky and unemotional to me. Still, that is comparing to the best, which isn't really fair.

But the triumph is one of storytelling, not writing. And she did triumph. Can't take away from her accomplishment, you are right, but they will never be counted among my favorite books.

I enjoyed both the LOTR and the Potter series, but I would say Tolkein's tales are certainly more epic in the telling.

I still have to hold JK Rowling as sort of a hero of mine for what she was able to achieve considering that she came from no particular pedigree.

By contrast I found Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series to be truly awful.

Sword of Truth? Was that the one that started with Wizard's First Rule? Yes I hated that. It was really violent in places, too. There was like 100 pages of torture.

I read the first of the Robert Jordan series Wheel of Time, and I liked that a bit.

Cerebus said:

ZombieKitten said:

I could never get into any Tolkien books, but I devoured the Narnias as a kid. I've read HP first 2 books, but didn't really feel compelled to continue, perhaps if I was still a kid?

First of all

I never really felt like I was reading kids books. Didn't even understand the designation. Regardless, the third book is where things start to get heavy and VERY un-kid like. Dementors suck... literally!

I do feel like they are kids books, but they grow as the series grows. The last one is about 17 year olds and so it's practically adult. But I like kids books, so I don't think it's an insult to say it's a kids book. It just means no sex or swearing, the writing is fairly simple, and the main characters are kids.

NDRU said:

babynoz said:

I enjoyed both the LOTR and the Potter series, but I would say Tolkein's tales are certainly more epic in the telling.

I still have to hold JK Rowling as sort of a hero of mine for what she was able to achieve considering that she came from no particular pedigree.

By contrast I found Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series to be truly awful.

Sword of Truth? Was that the one that started with Wizard's First Rule? Yes I hated that. It was really violent in places, too. There was like 100 pages of torture.

I read the first of the Robert Jordan series Wheel of Time, and I liked that a bit.

Yep, that's the one...dreadful writing, I couldn't get into any of the characters and the dialog was so corny.

I'll have to check out Wheel of Time.

babynoz said:

NDRU said:

Sword of Truth? Was that the one that started with Wizard's First Rule? Yes I hated that. It was really violent in places, too. There was like 100 pages of torture.

I read the first of the Robert Jordan series Wheel of Time, and I liked that a bit.

Yep, that's the one...dreadful writing, I couldn't get into any of the characters and the dialog was so corny.

I'll have to check out Wheel of Time.

Wheel of time is better (Eye of the World is the first book), but still not a masterpiece.

But beware, the series is like 13 books SO FAR and each of them is about 1000 pages!!

next book on my list