DesireeNevermind said:

Alright bear with me all you JRR Tolkien fans but uh....

If all the characters in this trio of folklore were to be pale skinned and representative of some british ideal or British mythical/fantasy creature (e.g. elves, dwarfs, hobbits, humans that resemble british noblemen) then uh....why was that army just outside moldor (sp) made up of brown skinned arabic looking peoples all dressed in red and black. shit they could pass for modern day taliban. I'm thinking of the scene from Return of the King. Also, if one really wanted to cry racism or colorism or just "ism" period then one could take offense that the larger orks (sp) that were born out of the ground all happened to be very dark skinned and nearly black and that the only women in the film were all pale skinned, very thin, white women with hair down to their arses - not even a brown eyed chick among the bunch.

I'd like to sympathise with Mz Humphreys but come on....a lot of the mystical and history **cough** theirstory films that are the creation of British writers and European film directors is almost always whitewashed. She can be angry but should she be surprised?

Very good point and well spotted.

I mentioned in an earlier reply that this army are the Harradrim which according to the books come from lands with hotter climates far to the south which is a parralel to Europe. Jackson was spot on in the casting here to keep the ethnicity of the books. Even though it matters not to people who don't know the books or would go unoticed, these details are important to those that do. The Horse Riders, of Rohan are a parrel to the vikings of scandinavia so the blonde look was also spot on. You have to understand that Tolkien was a proffessor of European Mythology, Beowulf etc. He wanted to create a full Nordic scale mythology for Great Britain as it didn't have one.

lust said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Alright bear with me all you JRR Tolkien fans but uh....

If all the characters in this trio of folklore were to be pale skinned and representative of some british ideal or British mythical/fantasy creature (e.g. elves, dwarfs, hobbits, humans that resemble british noblemen) then uh....why was that army just outside moldor (sp) made up of brown skinned arabic looking peoples all dressed in red and black. shit they could pass for modern day taliban. I'm thinking of the scene from Return of the King. Also, if one really wanted to cry racism or colorism or just "ism" period then one could take offense that the larger orks (sp) that were born out of the ground all happened to be very dark skinned and nearly black and that the only women in the film were all pale skinned, very thin, white women with hair down to their arses - not even a brown eyed chick among the bunch.

I'd like to sympathise with Mz Humphreys but come on....a lot of the mystical and history **cough** theirstory films that are the creation of British writers and European film directors is almost always whitewashed. She can be angry but should she be surprised?

Very good point and well spotted.

I mentioned in an earlier reply that this army are the Harradrim which according to the books come from lands with hotter climates far to the south which is a parralel to Europe. Jackson was spot on in the casting here to keep the ethnicity of the books. Even though it matters not to people who don't know the books or would go unoticed, these details are important to those that do. The Horse Riders, of Rohan are a parrel to the vikings of scandinavia so the blonde look was also spot on. You have to understand that Tolkien was a proffessor of European Mythology, Beowulf etc. He wanted to create a full Nordic scale mythology for Great Britain as it didn't have one.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Harad

Social Organisation

Haradrim King by Kyle Anderson

Harad's tribes were divided—at least in the minds of the men of northwestern Middle-earth—into those of Near and Far Harad, although there were many tribes of the Haradrim, often mutually hostile. Those of Near Harad were brown-skinned, with black hair and dark eyes, whereas the people of Far Harad had black skin. It is also presumed that every tribe had a chieftain, who served as their leader and general in the battlefield.

Also note the mention of the men from northwestern middle earth (the men of the LOTR stories) You must be able to see the pararel with Europe with the hotter lands to the South, where skin goes from white to brown to black the further south you go.

lust said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Alright bear with me all you JRR Tolkien fans but uh....

If all the characters in this trio of folklore were to be pale skinned and representative of some british ideal or British mythical/fantasy creature (e.g. elves, dwarfs, hobbits, humans that resemble british noblemen) then uh....why was that army just outside moldor (sp) made up of brown skinned arabic looking peoples all dressed in red and black. shit they could pass for modern day taliban. I'm thinking of the scene from Return of the King. Also, if one really wanted to cry racism or colorism or just "ism" period then one could take offense that the larger orks (sp) that were born out of the ground all happened to be very dark skinned and nearly black and that the only women in the film were all pale skinned, very thin, white women with hair down to their arses - not even a brown eyed chick among the bunch.

I'd like to sympathise with Mz Humphreys but come on....a lot of the mystical and history **cough** theirstory films that are the creation of British writers and European film directors is almost always whitewashed. She can be angry but should she be surprised?

Very good point and well spotted.

I mentioned in an earlier reply that this army are the Harradrim which according to the books come from lands with hotter climates far to the south which is a parralel to Europe. Jackson was spot on in the casting here to keep the ethnicity of the books. Even though it matters not to people who don't know the books or would go unoticed, these details are important to those that do. The Horse Riders, of Rohan are a parrel to the vikings of scandinavia so the blonde look was also spot on. You have to understand that Tolkien was a proffessor of European Mythology, Beowulf etc. He wanted to create a full Nordic scale mythology for Great Britain as it didn't have one.

And on that note, the casting manager was right to reject those actors and extras who didn't fit the look of the characters in the books; if his attention was to remain true to Tolkein's characters. Now I better understand the uproar over the casting that was done for "The Last Air Bender".

The casting director for this Hobbit film could have chosen a better way to reject people at audition rather than tell them their skin wasn't the right color- if for no other reason than to avoid accusations of racism. Here in the U.S. particularly California, the casting agents don't have to tell you anything. They can just say thank you and goodbye.

DesireeNevermind said:

lust said:

Very good point and well spotted.

I mentioned in an earlier reply that this army are the Harradrim which according to the books come from lands with hotter climates far to the south which is a parralel to Europe. Jackson was spot on in the casting here to keep the ethnicity of the books. Even though it matters not to people who don't know the books or would go unoticed, these details are important to those that do. The Horse Riders, of Rohan are a parrel to the vikings of scandinavia so the blonde look was also spot on. You have to understand that Tolkien was a proffessor of European Mythology, Beowulf etc. He wanted to create a full Nordic scale mythology for Great Britain as it didn't have one.

And on that note, the casting manager was right to reject those actors and extras who didn't fit the look of the characters in the books; if his attention was to remain true to Tolkein's characters. Now I better understand the uproar over the casting that was done for "The Last Air Bender".

The casting director for this Hobbit film could have chosen a better way to reject people at audition rather than tell them their skin wasn't the right color- if for no other reason than to avoid accusations of racism. Here in the U.S. particularly California, the casting agents don't have to tell you anything. They can just say thank you and goodbye.

Indeed. The casting director messed up with how it was handled and lost his job because of it.

New Zealand for the most part is a very integrated society and whilst I'm not saying we don't have racism because we do we don't have the social issues and resentment around race that seemsso relevant in the U.S. We currently have an Indian governor general (The Queens representative here) and have many polititions, MP's and mayors from all sorts of backgrounds. We have had a rastafarian mp and a transexual Maori woman as a Mayor of one our cities. That must be a world first. It's something I am proud of.

The contention that writers who write nonwhite characters face the prospect of an outcry falls horribly flat for one major, inescapable reason:

Writers worth their salt constantly write characters that are different from themselves. Yes, there are

instances when critics fault writers for writing fiction that doesn't seem natural to a demographic portrayed in a story, but that's part of the risk of writing. And, really, it's what grows you as a writer.

Secondly, add minority writers to the projects, if you're concerned about character authenticity. They abound! There are tons of liberal arts graduates -- especially from HCBUs -- who would love the opportunity to write for major projects. Dang, I'm one of 'em!

In this day and age, thinking that only white writers are around to write scripts is kind of central to the exclusion I'm talking about.

johnart said:

ufoclub said:

Here's one of the times that Saturday Night Live directly addressed racism in the face with a sketch... and really crossed a certain line at the end...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/1477/saturday-night-live-word-association

Wow I'm surprised they went there.

in the '70s - yeah...

November 29, 2010, 1:56 pm

Casting Director Dismissed From ‘Hobbit’