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November 29, 2010

An actress who attended a New Zealand casting session in the hope of playing an extra in the Peter Jackson film The Hobbit , was reportedly told that her skin was not the right color for her to play a Tolkien creature.

Naz Humphreys, who has Pakistani heritage, told the Waikato Times: "It's 2010 and I still can't believe I'm being discriminated against because I have brown skin. The casting manager basically said they weren't having anybody who wasn't pale-skinned."

According to press reports, there is video footage that shows the casting manager telling people at the audition: "We are looking for light-skinned people. I'm not trying to be... whatever. It's just the brief. You've got to look like a hobbit."

Director Jackson's spokesperson said that he was unaware of these casting restrictions and that it is "an incredibly unfortunate error".

He said: "It is not something the producers or the director of The Hobbit were aware of. They would never issue instructions of this kind to the casting crew. All people meeting the age and height requirements are welcome to audition."

Article

[Edited 11/29/10 10:14am]

The shit is ludicrous.

I love how any adaptation that isn't happening now and on Earth is automatically cast as White and British.

Ancient Rome

Biblical films

Space films

Middle Earth

The Empire

Mt. Olympus

Always White and British. Why is that?

Though in a lot cases I tend to agree with the analysis of the white british ideal (still ticked off about "clash of the titans"). Given that "the hobbit" is an adaptation of a british author who spent decades developing his idea of an ancient british folklore it kind of is a given in this case. I can't be mad at it.

It's pretty screwed up though given that new zealand has a majority browned skinned population and this movie stands to really bring in the bucks for that country like lord of the rings did. A lot of people got paid and paid well, some didn't, but most did.

What else is new?

Fair enough. Considering the source material for the film, I don't see a problem here at all.

You can't shoehorn every nationality into every film just to please the politically 'correct'.

.

[Edited 11/29/10 10:31am]

But do the books say specifically that there is no one black in all of the realms? Except maybe Orcs?

Why would anyone in 2010 be surprised by this? It'll keep going on until people realize how stupid it is. Remember that.

DrRockdapuss said:

But do the books say specifically that there is no one black in all of the realms? Except maybe Orcs?

Dunno. I'm not that into it.

But if Tolkien described Hobbits as fare-skinned, and they're following the source closely, that shouldn't be critcised.

[Edited 11/29/10 10:53am]

I am still upset Tom Cruise did not get the title role in Ali. He's spunky!

What next? no white aborigines? no black KKK members?

I've never read The Hobbit, but what about the source material would lead one to conclude that Hobbits must be white? Is it because Tolkien was white?

Lammastide said:

I've never read The Hobbit, but what about the source material would lead one to conclude that Hobbits must be white? Is it because Tolkien was white?

I can't remember any specific reference to skin color, either. But there are a lot of books outside of The Hobbit & the Lord of the Rings, like the Silmarillion or Middle Earth books, maybe those specify.

But it's silly, they cast humans as hobbits and elves and orcs, so it seems anyone could be able to play a role if they are good enough

[Edited 11/29/10 11:11am]

DrRockdapuss said:

But do the books say specifically that there is no one black in all of the realms? Except maybe Orcs?

I don't think the books are that descriptive, but I'm not sure since I'm not a true Tolkienite. and just for point sake the orcs aren't black either according to the books (or the movies), just mutated elves. but I can understand the assumption based on the visual alone and I think a lot of people make that connection.

I don't know it doesn't bother me in this case as I said before. I mean a few hundred years ago I would wage to bet that it was quite rare for there to have been a naturally born black finnish or scotsman or whatever that makes up the british people, it's a british folklore. Now Zeus (a greek god) dressed in shiny armor like the knights of the round table or Caesar walking around speaking the proper queen's english is a bit off putting (and boring), in this day and age. I think it would help if hollywood would keep some historical realism today, unlike the past, at the very least.

Obviously, there are no blacks in the land of Middle Earth and it's stories because it is derived entirely of Anglo-saxen (which Tolkein was a proffessor of at Oxford University) Celtic, and Norse lore which were all of the white race.

You see, the entire world of Middle Earth is based upon the mythology of these, and so it would be absurded to add a black character to the story. Middle Earth is, as a fantasy, supposed to be Europe, or more specificaly England, tens of thousands of years ago in a time that was lost and unknown to us - a place of lore and magic.

All of the characters in the book are English folk, and English culture is throughout it.

Imagine a fantasy written about the ancient history of Africa, it's people, and it's culture. Would you expect any whites to be there? Of course not. The same goes for The Lord of the Rings.

I assure you, it has nothing to do with racism or the ideals of discrimination very common in Tolkein's time. Any who suggest it know nothing of The Lord of the Rings.

I actually find this particular casting more ridiculous

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Marrk said:

Marrk said:

DrRockdapuss said:

But do the books say specifically that there is no one black in all of the realms? Except maybe Orcs?

Dunno. I'm not that into it.

But if Tolkien described Hobbits as fare-skinned, and they're following the source closely, that shouldn't be critcised.

[Edited 11/29/10 10:53am]

I'm a huge Tolkien fan, and nowhere in the Hobbit or the LOTR books does it say that all hobbits are white.

Nowhere.

This is a case of same shit, different day as far as moviemaking is concerned.

PunkMistress said:

Marrk said:

Dunno. I'm not that into it.

But if Tolkien described Hobbits as fare-skinned, and they're following the source closely, that shouldn't be critcised.

[Edited 11/29/10 10:53am]

I'm a huge Tolkien fan, and nowhere in the Hobbit or the LOTR books does it say that all hobbits are white.

Nowhere.

This is a case of same shit, different day as far as moviemaking is concerned.

The main description of Hobbits in LotR is in the Prologue

Prologue:

For they(Hobbits) are a little people, smaller than Dwarves; less stout and stocky, that is, even when they are not actually much shorter. Their height is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure ... Bandobras Took ... was four foot five and able to ride a horse. He was surpassed in all Hobbit records only by two famous characters of old.

Tolkien goes on: ... they seldom wore shoes, since their feet had tough leathery soles and were clad in a thick curling hair, much like the hair of their heads ... and further: The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble ... the Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger ... the Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others ... And he says The Harfoots ... were the most normal and representative variety of Hobbit and also the most settled. The four Hobbits of the Fellowship appear to have been Harfoots with (in the case of Merry, Pippin and Frodo at least) some Fallohide ancestry.

andykeen said:

Prologue:

For they(Hobbits) are a little people, smaller than Dwarves; less stout and stocky, that is, even when they are not actually much shorter. Their height is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure ... Bandobras Took ... was four foot five and able to ride a horse. He was surpassed in all Hobbit records only by two famous characters of old.

Tolkien goes on: ... they seldom wore shoes, since their feet had tough leathery soles and were clad in a thick curling hair, much like the hair of their heads ... and further: The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble ... the Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger ... the Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others ... And he says The Harfoots ... were the most normal and representative variety of Hobbit and also the most settled. The four Hobbits of the Fellowship appear to have been Harfoots with (in the case of Merry, Pippin and Frodo at least) some Fallohide ancestry.

so THE MAIN ONES were "browner of skin," then? Someone tell casting!

[Edited 11/29/10 12:13pm]

PunkMistress said:

Marrk said:

Dunno. I'm not that into it.

But if Tolkien described Hobbits as fare-skinned, and they're following the source closely, that shouldn't be critcised.

[Edited 11/29/10 10:53am]

I'm a huge Tolkien fan, and nowhere in the Hobbit or the LOTR books does it say that all hobbits are white.

Nowhere.

Did i say that? nope. i did not. I i typed the word 'if' based on a vague recollection.

andykeen has confirmed that recollection to be at least partially correct.

andykeen said:

Obviously, there are no blacks in the land of Middle Earth and it's stories because it is derived entirely of Anglo-saxen (which Tolkein was a proffessor of at Oxford University) Celtic, and Norse lore which were all of the white race.

You see, the entire world of Middle Earth is based upon the mythology of these, and so it would be absurded to add a black character to the story. Middle Earth is, as a fantasy, supposed to be Europe, or more specificaly England, tens of thousands of years ago in a time that was lost and unknown to us - a place of lore and magic.

All of the characters in the book are English folk, and English culture is throughout it.

Imagine a fantasy written about the ancient history of Africa, it's people, and it's culture. Would you expect any whites to be there? Of course not. The same goes for The Lord of the Rings.

I assure you, it has nothing to do with racism or the ideals of discrimination very common in Tolkein's time. Any who suggest it know nothing of The Lord of the Rings.

I've no doubt the dream of such an ancient, fantastical place would reflect the people of a given time and place. Almost all folklore does. But while Tolkien's vision was conceived in interwar England, it is neither set there nor is it now envisioned from that vantagepoint. The world that has inherited Tolkien's story is extraordinarily diverse, and if we can imagine a prehistoric world (even where England now sits) wherein 4-foot, hairy-footed elves roamed around, how can our imaginations not accommodate they might not all be white? Heck, we now know even early humans of given locales didn't look altogether like their descendents in those places.

But then there is also what we know of Tolkien: As a very religious man -- whose faith played out in his writing -- I'd think he sought to tell a tale that would confer universal themes and truths. His own England (and therefore his narrative lense) may have been quite white by virtue of its own racial homogeneity at the time, but I don't get from him that he'd find that lense particularly necessary... or even desireable were it brought to his attention by 2010's global audience.

[Edited 11/30/10 6:57am]

andykeen said:

Prologue:

For they(Hobbits) are a little people, smaller than Dwarves; less stout and stocky, that is, even when they are not actually much shorter. Their height is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure ... Bandobras Took ... was four foot five and able to ride a horse. He was surpassed in all Hobbit records only by two famous characters of old.

Tolkien goes on: ... they seldom wore shoes, since their feet had tough leathery soles and were clad in a thick curling hair, much like the hair of their heads ... and further: The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble ... the Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger ... the Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others ... And he says The Harfoots ... were the most normal and representative variety of Hobbit and also the most settled. The four Hobbits of the Fellowship appear to have been Harfoots with (in the case of Merry, Pippin and Frodo at least) some Fallohide ancestry.

And then there is that.

I find this unfortunate, though...

Casting Director Is Dismissed from ‘The Hobbit’ Amid Racial Dispute

You’d think a movie project whose roster of characters runs from diminutive dwarves to giant dragons would need to be as inclusive as possible in its casting. But on Monday, a casting agent was let go from Peter Jackson’s planned film adaptations of “The Hobbit,” after placing newspaper advertisements seeking extras with “light skin tones” and a prospective performer said she was told she was too dark to appear in the movies, Agence France-Presse reported.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nyt...l-dispute/

Lammastide said:

I find this unfortunate, though...

Casting Director Is Dismissed from ‘The Hobbit’ Amid Racial Dispute

By DAVE ITZKOFF

You’d think a movie project whose roster of characters runs from diminutive dwarves to giant dragons would need to be as inclusive as possible in its casting. But on Monday, a casting agent was let go from Peter Jackson’s planned film adaptations of “The Hobbit,” after placing newspaper advertisements seeking extras with “light skin tones” and a prospective performer said she was told she was too dark to appear in the movies, Agence France-Presse reported.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nyt...l-dispute/

All's well that ends well!

whatever happened to 'You're not what we're looking for. Thanks for coming!'?

Dude must have been pretty dumb.

Lammastide said:

andykeen said:

Prologue:

For they(Hobbits) are a little people, smaller than Dwarves; less stout and stocky, that is, even when they are not actually much shorter. Their height is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure ... Bandobras Took ... was four foot five and able to ride a horse. He was surpassed in all Hobbit records only by two famous characters of old.

Tolkien goes on: ... they seldom wore shoes, since their feet had tough leathery soles and were clad in a thick curling hair, much like the hair of their heads ... and further: The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble ... the Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger ... the Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others ... And he says The Harfoots ... were the most normal and representative variety of Hobbit and also the most settled. The four Hobbits of the Fellowship appear to have been Harfoots with (in the case of Merry, Pippin and Frodo at least) some Fallohide ancestry.

And then there is that.

though the Harfoots were "darker" as a rule than other Hobbits, I think it likely they were not as dark-skinned as someone from South Gondor or the Harad; only "dark" compared to other Hobbits.

Seems like it would all be moot with the tons of makeup and wigs they will undoubtably use!

All the hobbit actors wore wigs in Lord of the Rings. But yes they were all caucasian. Actually if I saw a hobbit obviously played by another race from reality, it would be detrimental to the story for me. It would be an indication of real life politics or affirmative casting/marketing in my opinion, not feel true to the source material in which races are more simply divided by species (hobbit vs elf vs human vs dwarf).

I'm beginning to doubt these movies will be any good given all the crap it's taken just to get these movies started. They lost one director which I think would have put an interesting twist on the storyline. but then the fans would have raised hell anyway cause PJ didn't do. then you had the whole mess with the unions, delays and whatnot.

Sad somebody had to lose their job based on simple phrase wording but that's the way it is all over.

Oh well, I'm sure there are a lot of brown-skinned people working at WETA, that's were the money is. Of course that does absolutely nothing for you if you're an actor.

Marrk said:

What next? no white aborigines? no black KKK members?

There was a black member of the KKK, Clayton Bigsby

DrRockdapuss said:

But do the books say specifically that there is no one black in all of the realms? Except maybe Orcs?

Does it say Orcs are Black?

That I don't recall, I recall foul smelling, blackened teeth, . . . .