Cerebus said:

SCNDLS said:

Did you see the interview?

Have you read this thread?

Yeah uh huh

sag10 said:

Why are you all so interested in ones sexual orientation..

It doesn't matter.

It does, IMHO, when you perpetuate homophobia in your art and you refuse to discuss how religion within your community is perpetuating said homophobia within the black community all because your tired ass is scared of losing out in millions of profit.

...that's why I am pissed at Perry's tired ass and Oprah's too. To have this show aired during a very important day within the LGBT movement was straight up dangerous on Oprah's party.

sosgemini said:

sag10 said:

Why are you all so interested in ones sexual orientation..

It doesn't matter.

It does, IMHO, when you perpetuate homophobia in your art and you refuse to discuss how religion within your community is perpetuating said homophobia within the black community all because your tired ass is scared of losing out in millions of profit.

...that's why I am pissed at Perry's tired ass and Oprah's too. To have this show aired during a very important day within the LGBT movement was straight up dangerous on Oprah's party.

As trite as his movies/plays are, I don't think they advocate homophobia. As far as him being compelled to address the homophobia within the black community, I agree, but it should be a collective effort, not only on him.

That being said, I don't think he owes anybody to acknowledge that he's a red blooded blooming queen, why the hell should he, its his life.

sosgemini said:

sag10 said:

Why are you all so interested in ones sexual orientation..

It doesn't matter.

It does, IMHO, when you perpetuate homophobia in your art and you refuse to discuss how religion within your community is perpetuating said homophobia within the black community all because your tired ass is scared of losing out in millions of profit.

...that's why I am pissed at Perry's tired ass and Oprah's too. To have this show aired during a very important day within the LGBT movement was straight up dangerous on Oprah's party.

Interesting points. But in fairness, do you really think Perry's work perpetuates homophobia any more than the broader context of film and art in which it's situated? If so, how and where? (I don't think I've seen pointed homophobia in his work, but I honestly don't know his repertoire well enough to have a broad picture.)

Also, while I do think the onus is on Christians -- in a broad and general sense -- to defend the integrity of their community/faith against those within the fold who misrepresent Christianity with their own biases, hatred, etc., is it really fair to declare what pointed duty a particular individual has in this? Don't you think that's a matter of indivudual calling?

As to your point about Oprah's timing given yesterday was Spirit Day... ...I don't know how I feel about that. I hadn't given it much though. I will say, however, that to the extent some celebs' rumored non-hetero orientations are publicly discussed in venues like Oprah's, I wish it weren't so sloppy. For example, when/if revelations of their traumatic past springs up, I cringe, because I know full well such accounts validate uncritical "X is caused directly by Y" assumptions many folk have about LGBTQs. If they're gonna talk about it, I wish they'd take care to mention that their intrinsic sexual orientation, to the extent they believe it to exist, may very well not altogether be affected by some absence or presence of trauma, sexual or otherwise. (I know heteros, for example, who were molested; conversely, my own formative years, sexually and otherwise, were pretty Leave it to Beaver, and I'm gay.) To date, I've seen only singer Tonéx speak to this important point, and I gave him a standing ovation in my own home.

[Edited 10/21/10 15:00pm]

TonyVanDam said:

sag10 said:

No, he is very heterosexual sorry to disappoint you.

Are you sure about THAT^?!? The word is still out about Tyler being bi on a down low.

He doesn't even strike me as bi. He seems to me like a full fledged queen.

Harlepolis said:

sosgemini said:

It does, IMHO, when you perpetuate homophobia in your art and you refuse to discuss how religion within your community is perpetuating said homophobia within the black community all because your tired ass is scared of losing out in millions of profit.

...that's why I am pissed at Perry's tired ass and Oprah's too. To have this show aired during a very important day within the LGBT movement was straight up dangerous on Oprah's party.

As trite as his movies/plays are, I don't think they advocate homophobia. As far as him being compelled to address the homophobia within the black community, I agree, but it should be a collective effort, not only on him.

That being said, I don't think he owes anybody to acknowledge that he's a red blooded blooming queen, why the hell should he, its his life.

As long as he doesn't downgrade us, I'm fine with him staying in the closet as long as he wants to. Lord knows, if a person comes out, it needs to be when they are comfortable with doing so...that is, if they ever are comfortable enough.

I do believe strongly in busting people out though. However, only the ones that either downgrade us, bash us, or think they are better than us. Those types deserve to be busted out and I get a bigger thrill out of seeing them busted out than shitting on Shitney Houston.

Well that show was a starting point for a bigger show to come on Nov 5th... I believe over 200 men who have been abused will be in attendance.. 1 of them is my friend former FBI agent James Clemente.. they filmed it yesterday

What struck a cord with me is that Tyler kept saying how that when these men would touch him he kept stating how his body would betray him because he responded to the sexual act

Lammastide said:

sosgemini said:

It does, IMHO, when you perpetuate homophobia in your art and you refuse to discuss how religion within your community is perpetuating said homophobia within the black community all because your tired ass is scared of losing out in millions of profit.

...that's why I am pissed at Perry's tired ass and Oprah's too. To have this show aired during a very important day within the LGBT movement was straight up dangerous on Oprah's party.

Interesting points. But in fairness, do you really think Perry's work perpetuates homophobia any more than the broader context of film and art in which it's situated? If so, how and where? (I don't think I've seen pointed homophobia in his work, but I honestly don't know his repertoire well enough to have a broad picture.)

Also, while I do think the onus is on Christians -- in a broad and general sense -- to defend the integrity of their community/faith against those within the fold who misrepresent Christianity with their own biases, hatred, etc., is it really fair to declare what pointed duty a particular individual has in this? Don't you think that's a matter of indivudual calling?

As to your point about Oprah's timing given yesterday was Spirit Day... ...I don't know how I feel about that. I hadn't given it much though. I will say, however, that to the extent some celebs' rumored non-hetero orientations are publicly discussed in venues like Oprah's, I wish it weren't so sloppy. For example, when/if revelations of their traumatic past springs up, I cringe, because I know full well such accounts validate uncritical "X is caused directly by Y" assumptions many folk have about LGBTQs. If they're gonna talk about it, I wish they'd take care to mention that their intrinsic sexual orientation, to the extent they believe it to exist, may very well not altogether be affected by some absence or presence of trauma, sexual or otherwise. (I know heteros, for example, who were molested; conversely, my own formative years, sexually and otherwise, were pretty Leave it to Beaver, and I'm gay.) To date, I've seen only singer Tonéx speak to this important point, and I gave him a standing ovation in my own home.

[Edited 10/21/10 15:00pm]

I do, by bathing himself in a "the church is the solution" plots that the bulk of his plays and movies preach and *not* addressing how religion also perpetuates a stigma towards homophobia, then he is part of the problem. Especially when he appears hellbent on preaching about every other problem with us black folks community.

To the person who made the point about Oprah's upcoming show, do you really thing she's gonna go there? She has never addressed the problem in the past and doubt she will no...Her and Perry make too much money off the black church folk to call them out for their problem. It's the equivalent of the catholic church/molestation blindness.

Shyra said:

PDogz said:

The topic of discussion was childhood abuse he had suffered as a child growing up. The topic was not his sexual orientation.

OK, so it wasn't about his sexual orientation. Does that make me wrong for voicing an opinion?

Not in my opinion.

sag10 said:

SCNDLS said:

I'm watching now. Is he about to come out???

No, he is very heterosexual sorry to disappoint you.

Respectfully, I don't get that impression... at all. Nor can I understand why his sexuality would be received as a disappointment by anyone, one way or the other. But as I've said many times, I think the real problem is that still far too many people think there's something wrong, or less than manly, about being gay. Those people are shortsighted, in my opinion.

Since watching this interview he had with Oprah, I have tons more respect for Tyler than I had previously, and my heart goes out to his (and others) troubled childhood.

banks said:

What struck a cord with me is that Tyler kept saying how that when these men would touch him he kept stating how his body would betray him because he responded to the sexual act

I was going to respond to this comment, then I thought I should be sure to understand what you meant by 'a chord being struck' with you. What was it you felt or perceived?

sosgemini said:

Lammastide said:

Interesting points. But in fairness, do you really think Perry's work perpetuates homophobia any more than the broader context of film and art in which it's situated? If so, how and where? (I don't think I've seen pointed homophobia in his work, but I honestly don't know his repertoire well enough to have a broad picture.)

Also, while I do think the onus is on Christians -- in a broad and general sense -- to defend the integrity of their community/faith against those within the fold who misrepresent Christianity with their own biases, hatred, etc., is it really fair to declare what pointed duty a particular individual has in this? Don't you think that's a matter of indivudual calling?

As to your point about Oprah's timing given yesterday was Spirit Day... ...I don't know how I feel about that. I hadn't given it much though. I will say, however, that to the extent some celebs' rumored non-hetero orientations are publicly discussed in venues like Oprah's, I wish it weren't so sloppy. For example, when/if revelations of their traumatic past springs up, I cringe, because I know full well such accounts validate uncritical "X is caused directly by Y" assumptions many folk have about LGBTQs. If they're gonna talk about it, I wish they'd take care to mention that their intrinsic sexual orientation, to the extent they believe it to exist, may very well not altogether be affected by some absence or presence of trauma, sexual or otherwise. (I know heteros, for example, who were molested; conversely, my own formative years, sexually and otherwise, were pretty Leave it to Beaver, and I'm gay.) To date, I've seen only singer Tonéx speak to this important point, and I gave him a standing ovation in my own home.

[Edited 10/21/10 15:00pm]

I do, by bathing himself in a "the church is the solution" plots that the bulk of his plays and movies preach and *not* addressing how religion also perpetuates a stigma towards homophobia, then he is part of the problem. Especially when he appears hellbent on preaching about every other problem with us black folks community.

To the person who made the point about Oprah's upcoming show, do you really thing she's gonna go there? She has never addressed the problem in the past and doubt she will no...Her and Perry make too much money off the black church folk to call them out for their problem. It's the equivalent of the catholic church/molestation blindness.

I guess I've seen the absence of Perry addressing LGBTQs vis-a-vis the black church in his work as conspicuous, no doubt, but not necessarily a problem. Maybe we forget he very well could come out with some stuff that actively endorses the current scourge (my word, obviously) of anti-gay belief and practice that permeates the church (and not just the black church, BTW). He's professed no loyalty to "our cause," so I don't assume he's holding out on something he owes us.

Now where Oprah is regarded, I may have to agree with you. She's, in fact, come out in defense of LGBTQs fighting for equity in other domains. Her conspicuous silence about homophobia in the church is a bit more inconsistent with who she's presented herself to be and, therefore, harder to settle in my mind.

[Edited 10/21/10 15:56pm]

vainandy said:

Harlepolis said:

As trite as his movies/plays are, I don't think they advocate homophobia. As far as him being compelled to address the homophobia within the black community, I agree, but it should be a collective effort, not only on him.

That being said, I don't think he owes anybody to acknowledge that he's a red blooded blooming queen, why the hell should he, its his life.

As long as he doesn't downgrade us, I'm fine with him staying in the closet as long as he wants to. Lord knows, if a person comes out, it needs to be when they are comfortable with doing so...that is, if they ever are comfortable enough.

I do believe strongly in busting people out though. However, only the ones that either downgrade us, bash us, or think they are better than us. Those types deserve to be busted out and I get a bigger thrill out of seeing them busted out than shitting on Shitney Houston.

PDogz said:

banks said:

What struck a cord with me is that Tyler kept saying how that when these men would touch him he kept stating how his body would betray him because he responded to the sexual act

I was going to respond to this comment, then I thought I should be sure to understand what you meant by 'a chord being struck' with you. What was it you felt or perceived?

Chord is exactly what i meant.. I just wondered why kept on mentioning that he was aroused ?

Lammastide said:

sosgemini said:

I do, by bathing himself in a "the church is the solution" plots that the bulk of his plays and movies preach and *not* addressing how religion also perpetuates a stigma towards homophobia, then he is part of the problem. Especially when he appears hellbent on preaching about every other problem with us black folks community.

To the person who made the point about Oprah's upcoming show, do you really thing she's gonna go there? She has never addressed the problem in the past and doubt she will no...Her and Perry make too much money off the black church folk to call them out for their problem. It's the equivalent of the catholic church/molestation blindness.

I guess I've seen the absence of Perry addressing LGBTQs vis-a-vis the black church in his work as conspicuous, no doubt, but not necessarily a problem. Maybe we forget he very well could come out with some stuff that actively endorses the current scourge (my word, obviously) of anti-gay belief and practice that permeates the church (and not just the black church, BTW). He's professed no loyalty to "our cause," so I don't assume he's holding out on something he owes us.

Now where Oprah is regarded, I may have to agree with you. She's, in fact, come out in defense of LGBTQs fighting for equity in other domains. Her conspicuous silence about homophobia in the church is a bit more inconsistent with who she's presented herself to be and, therefore, harder to settle in my mind.

Well, maybe Perry should stop dressing up in drag if he is too scared to actually address LGBT issues. The T does mean something, cha know.

But he won't, cause he's making bank and that is the morally incomprehensible issue IMHO and the reason I will continue to call him out for his hypocrisy.

And something just didn't sound right when it came to his story of sexual abuse...the words he chose, the timeline, it was all very calculated and made me wonder if he is hiding more to cover up so that he can continue to make his BANK....

...and I question all this as a survivor myself. It all just smelled, off.

PDogz said:

banks said:

what's amazing is after all his father did to him, he still takes care of that mofo.. got him living in a mansion and sends him a montly check

That goes to Tylers credit, plus shows his Dad who the bigger man is. I admire him for doing it. It's not that he's showing his Dad any love, he's just doing it because he's got BANK like that (...and probably rubbing it in Dad's face). I bet one thing for sure: Dad knows who's in control these days! Dad knows who's BOSS.

What a evil-freak his Dad was anyway; staring at him through holes in the door and shit. Honestly speaking, Tylers Dad wasn't/isn't a whole lot different than mine. Though it was my older brother that caught most of the grief.

How about that statement his Dad made about " If he whipped Tyler's really good he might have been Obama..

banks said:

PDogz said:

I was going to respond to this comment, then I thought I should be sure to understand what you meant by 'a chord being struck' with you. What was it you felt or perceived?

Chord is exactly what i meant.. I just wondered why kept on mentioning that he was aroused ?

Oh, I see. Thanks.

sosgemini said:

Lammastide said:

I guess I've seen the absence of Perry addressing LGBTQs vis-a-vis the black church in his work as conspicuous, no doubt, but not necessarily a problem. Maybe we forget he very well could come out with some stuff that actively endorses the current scourge (my word, obviously) of anti-gay belief and practice that permeates the church (and not just the black church, BTW). He's professed no loyalty to "our cause," so I don't assume he's holding out on something he owes us.

Now where Oprah is regarded, I may have to agree with you. She's, in fact, come out in defense of LGBTQs fighting for equity in other domains. Her conspicuous silence about homophobia in the church is a bit more inconsistent with who she's presented herself to be and, therefore, harder to settle in my mind.

Well, maybe Perry should stop dressing up in drag if he is too scared to actually address LGBT issues. The T does mean something, cha know.

But he won't, cause he's making bank and that is the morally incomprehensible issue IMHO and the reason I will continue to call him out for his hypocrisy.

And something just didn't sound right when it came to his story of sexual abuse...the words he chose, the timeline, it was all very calculated and made me wonder if he is hiding more to cover up so that he can continue to make his BANK....

...and I question all this as a survivor myself. It all just smelled, off.

My feelings EXACTLY!

banks said:

PDogz said:

That goes to Tylers credit, plus shows his Dad who the bigger man is. I admire him for doing it. It's not that he's showing his Dad any love, he's just doing it because he's got BANK like that (...and probably rubbing it in Dad's face). I bet one thing for sure: Dad knows who's in control these days! Dad knows who's BOSS.

What a evil-freak his Dad was anyway; staring at him through holes in the door and shit. Honestly speaking, Tylers Dad wasn't/isn't a whole lot different than mine. Though it was my older brother that caught most of the grief.

How about that statement his Dad made about " If he whipped Tyler's really good he might have been Obama..

Yeah, that was an unfortunate response.

PDogz said:

banks said:

How about that statement his Dad made about " If he whipped Tyler's really good he might have been Obama..

Yeah, that was an unfortunate response.

I could be wrong but what i got from Tyler is that his Father might have felt like he was Gay or Soft and that's why he abused him... He wasnt the type of son he wanted

Oh hell, no! Now it's Lisa Maria's time at the chair.

sosgemini said:

Oh hell, no! Now it's Lisa Maria's time at the chair.

I watched that too... I just wonder why she's doing all these show's about him now.... Randy is pissed that his parents did a interview with Oprah to be shown at a later date

banks said:

PDogz said:

Yeah, that was an unfortunate response.

I could be wrong but what i got from Tyler is that his Father might have felt like he was Gay or Soft and that's why he abused him... He wasnt the type of son he wanted

I suspect the same thing. It's also why I figured he would would secretly watch Tyler in his room from the hole in the door.

sosgemini said:

Oh hell, no! Now it's Lisa Maria's time at the chair.

I saw that preview yesterday. I was through when Oprah asked her if she coulda saved his life and she started crying. I hate that shit!

sosgemini said:

Oh hell, no! Now it's Lisa Maria's time at the chair.

Steals GIF

sosgemini said:

sag10 said:

Why are you all so interested in ones sexual orientation..

It doesn't matter.

It does, IMHO, when you perpetuate homophobia in your art and you refuse to discuss how religion within your community is perpetuating said homophobia within the black community all because your tired ass is scared of losing out in millions of profit.

...that's why I am pissed at Perry's tired ass and Oprah's too. To have this show aired during a very important day within the LGBT movement was straight up dangerous on Oprah's party.

Is it important that you discuss your sexual orientation with everyone on the org?

Not trying to be a smart ass but your sexual orientation is your personal business.

As far as TP goes if he's gay he is gay but i don't think he is obligated to omit that

to anyone anymore than Luther Vandross did.

phunkdaddy said:

sosgemini said:

It does, IMHO, when you perpetuate homophobia in your art and you refuse to discuss how religion within your community is perpetuating said homophobia within the black community all because your tired ass is scared of losing out in millions of profit.

...that's why I am pissed at Perry's tired ass and Oprah's too. To have this show aired during a very important day within the LGBT movement was straight up dangerous on Oprah's party.

Is it important that you discuss your sexual orientation with everyone on the org?

Not trying to be a smart ass but your sexual orientation is your personal business.

As far as TP goes if he's gay he is gay but i don't think he is obligated to omit that

to anyone anymore than Luther Vandross did.

Where am I talking about my sexual orientation?

I forgot to record this episode for my wife and now she is pissed. Is there somewhere on the webosphere where she can watch the show?

sosgemini said:

Lammastide said:

I guess I've seen the absence of Perry addressing LGBTQs vis-a-vis the black church in his work as conspicuous, no doubt, but not necessarily a problem. Maybe we forget he very well could come out with some stuff that actively endorses the current scourge (my word, obviously) of anti-gay belief and practice that permeates the church (and not just the black church, BTW). He's professed no loyalty to "our cause," so I don't assume he's holding out on something he owes us.

Now where Oprah is regarded, I may have to agree with you. She's, in fact, come out in defense of LGBTQs fighting for equity in other domains. Her conspicuous silence about homophobia in the church is a bit more inconsistent with who she's presented herself to be and, therefore, harder to settle in my mind.

Well, maybe Perry should stop dressing up in drag if he is too scared to actually address LGBT issues. The T does mean something, cha know.

But he won't, cause he's making bank and that is the morally incomprehensible issue IMHO and the reason I will continue to call him out for his hypocrisy.

And something just didn't sound right when it came to his story of sexual abuse...the words he chose, the timeline, it was all very calculated and made me wonder if he is hiding more to cover up so that he can continue to make his BANK....

...and I question all this as a survivor myself. It all just smelled, off.

Well, I don't think the tradition of theatric cross dressing need necessarily raise suspicion about homosexuality... or transgenderedness. We never held that sort of thing against Flip Wilson or Martin Lawrence, for example.

I suspect there's more at stake in "claiming" Perry because we 1) assume (and in many ways want) him to be gay ; 2) therefore see in him a sort of unspoken coming together of the black church and the LGBTQ community, a representation of the pink elephant that has long existed in Black America to our discomfort; and 3) are all too ready to destroy that pink elephant manifest in him. It's a perfect Gerardian scapegoat scenario! And the kicker is, he's screwed no matter what he does: If he came out, say, as gay (and, let's face it, we won't accept anything short of that), he loses his huge core audience, the very force that makes him relevant to anyone. If he comes out and altogether condemns all things LGBTQ, he retains (most of) that audience, but bolsters the heterosexism of the church and drives further divisiveness in Black America. His only hope, as I see it, is remaining right where he is on the issue and holding out until... I dunno ...or simply getting into secular entertainment devoid of any real sociopolitical/religious commentary. That way no one should expect anything of him at all except one fairly mediocre 90 minute flick every year.

But... I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe it aint't that deep.

Anyway... I didn't see the interview, so tell me: What do you think he was being cagey about with regard to the abuse allegations? Do you think he's flat-out lying? What sort of way do you see him pimping this?