retina said:

NDRU said:

before I saw the clip, I was dreading that maybe he was going to hit her or something, but this is not the case of a man beating up a woman.

It's sneaky and rude on his part, but only after she had fairly physically assaulted him.

Assaulted him? Are you serious? I can't even see her touching him. He just backs up when he realizes that she has her mind set on going through first, and then he intentionally trips her so that she falls to the ground with all the possible injuries that might lead to.

Injuries from falling to the ground, walking?

Dave1992 said:

retina said:

Assaulted him? Are you serious? I can't even see her touching him. He just backs up when he realizes that she has her mind set on going through first, and then he intentionally trips her so that she falls to the ground with all the possible injuries that might lead to.

Injuries from falling to the ground, walking?

Absolutely! Although minor bruises are the most common outcome, people can suffer anything from a broken hip or wrist to a ruptured knee cap or even a concussion depending on how they land, what the surface is and how old they are.

retina said:

NDRU said:

before I saw the clip, I was dreading that maybe he was going to hit her or something, but this is not the case of a man beating up a woman.

It's sneaky and rude on his part, but only after she had fairly physically assaulted him.

Assaulted him? Are you serious? I can't even see her touching him. He just backs up when he realizes that she has her mind set on going through first, and then he intentionally trips her so that she falls to the ground with all the possible injuries that might lead to.

watch it again, it looks to me like she is pushing him out of the way. He backs up, yes, but she does appear to be touching him. She shoves him out of the way.

I know assault sounds like a big word, but it doesn't necessarily mean causing injury (at least in this country)

I don't think tripping someone is cool, it's immature, and you're right she could hurt herself. But she had complete disregard for him and physically barreled through him. You say something about using force against a woman. He doesn't do that. She uses force against him. She initiated a physical situation with him, and therefore put herself at risk, and sure enough she fell down as a result.

It might not have been accidental, but they could have both fallen accidentally because of what she did. She took that risk and put him at risk, too--that is what I meant by assault.

I guess I could argue this either way, I see your point. It's a case where he is doing something wrong, but it is still her fault.

[Edited 10/14/10 11:38am]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault

this page kind of explains the distinction between assult as injury and assault as unwanted physical contact

NDRU said:

watch it again, it looks to me like she is pushing him out of the way. He backs up, yes, but she does appear to be touching him. She shoves him out of the way.

I have watched it a few times now, and I simply disagree with you. Not that it matters anyway, the point is that you simply don't attack a woman in that way, or anybody for that matter.

Of course he does that! He intentionally trips her so that she falls to the ground! According to your line of reasoning you would be innocent if you nudged someone so that they lost their balance and fell off a cliff, just because there's not a tremendous amount of force involved in the actual nudge. It's ridiculous.

No, she didn't fall down because she "put herself at risk". She fell down because he tripped her!

I strongly disagree. Her insisting to go through first does not in any way give him the right to trip her!

you made a distinction, saying you shouldn't use force specifically against a woman, I was simply saying this was not a case of a man using overpowering force against a woman

anyway, I am not saying he should have done it, but I do think she initiated a phyical situation and took a risk. You don't walk up to mike tyson and poke him in the face while calling him names either. Do you not see that she is wrong here, even if he is wrong too?

[Edited 10/14/10 12:03pm]

Some of y'all are nuts. Tripping a complete stranger is now OK because you were inconvenienced for five seconds? That lady should have stood up and punched dude squarly in the throat.

NDRU said:

you made a distinction, saying you shouldn't use force specifically against a woman, I was simply saying this was not a case of a man using overpowering force against a woman

anyway, I am not saying he should have done it, but I do think she initiated a phyical situation and took a risk. You don't walk up to mike tyson and poke him in the face while calling him names either. Do you not see that she is wrong here, even if he is wrong too?

[Edited 10/14/10 12:03pm]

NDRU said:

you made a distinction, saying you shouldn't use force against a woman, I assumed you meant using physical force--ie that men are stronger

anyway, I am not saying he should have done it, but I do think she initiated a phyical situation and took a risk. You don't walk up to mike tyson and call him names either. Do you not see that she is wrong here, even if he is wrong too?

Sure, he was further into the turnstyle than she was when they met so if he had given her a dirty look or mumbled a comment I wouldn't have blamed him.

As for the tripping though, I don't at all agree with those who think she "had it coming". You shouldn't have to worry about suddenly find yourself smashing into the ground at the intentional initiative of someone else just because you were a bit too much in a hurry going through a stupid turnstyle.

And although a lot of people these days obviously disagree with me, I do think it matters that it's a man and a woman. Women should not cause men bodily harm either but it's much more important that men don't cause women bodily harm no matter if it's directly or indirectly. To start to mess with such important rules of thumb would lead us onto a very, very slippery slope.

typo edit

[Edited 10/14/10 12:12pm]

NDRU said:

you made a distinction, saying you shouldn't use force specifically against a woman, I was simply saying this was not a case of a man using overpowering force against a woman

anyway, I am not saying he should have done it, but I do think she initiated a phyical situation and took a risk. You don't walk up to mike tyson and poke him in the face while calling him names either. Do you not see that she is wrong here, even if he is wrong too?

No, dude. Not at all. She didn't walk up to anybody and poke him in the face OR call him names. In fact, she was looking down. All dude had to do was step to the side for a few seconds and go on with his day. That's what a NORMAL human being would have done. Tripping a unsuspecting stranger on a pavement surface is grounds for a neck punch. And this is coming from somebody who admittedly HATES the human race. The rudeness of that woman, everyday normality. The aggression of that guy, totally unacceptable.

Ok, ya'll. What happens when we substitute a dude for an old lady? Does it change how you feel about people being rude with no expectation of consequence?

This, in my mind, is a question of environment and culture. If you're from a place where violence happens, you think about yourself and your surroundings. I assume every human is fuckin psychotic. I treat them accordingly, with lots of space and politeness. And I watch them like a hawk.

I think people from "good neighborhoods" forget violence is a real thing, so they just go off willynilly. This old woman is a prime example. After she got bust in the snotbox, she looked like she just witnessed a velociraptor holdin a slave auction.

"They still do that...?"

[Edited 10/14/10 12:43pm]

retina said:

NDRU said:

you made a distinction, saying you shouldn't use force against a woman, I assumed you meant using physical force--ie that men are stronger

anyway, I am not saying he should have done it, but I do think she initiated a phyical situation and took a risk. You don't walk up to mike tyson and call him names either. Do you not see that she is wrong here, even if he is wrong too?

Sure, he was further into the turnstyle than she was when they met so if he had given her a dirty look or mumbled a comment I wouldn't have blamed him.

As for the tripping though, I don't at all agree with those who think she "had it coming". You shouldn't have to worry about suddenly find yourself smashing into the ground at the intentional initiative of someone else just because you were a bit too much in a hurry going through a stupid turnstyle.

And although a lot of people these days obviously disagree with me, I do think it matters that it's a man and a woman. Women should not cause men bodily harm either but it's much more important that men don't cause women bodily harm no matter if it's directly or indirectly. To start to mess with such important rules of thumb would lead us onto a very, very slippery slope.

typo edit

[Edited 10/14/10 12:12pm]

yeah, I would not do what he did, but if it happened to me (I was tripped) I would think "well, I probably should not have done that"

I think part of my POV is that he did not hit or push her, he simply did not get out of her way completely. I know he intentionally tripped her, but had she given a bit more concern for him she might not have tripped, and even better, she could have avoided the whole situation.

I do see your point (I am in no way saying violence is okay), but I just can't feel bad for her in this particular instance

NDRU said:

retina said:

Sure, he was further into the turnstyle than she was when they met so if he had given her a dirty look or mumbled a comment I wouldn't have blamed him.

As for the tripping though, I don't at all agree with those who think she "had it coming". You shouldn't have to worry about suddenly find yourself smashing into the ground at the intentional initiative of someone else just because you were a bit too much in a hurry going through a stupid turnstyle.

And although a lot of people these days obviously disagree with me, I do think it matters that it's a man and a woman. Women should not cause men bodily harm either but it's much more important that men don't cause women bodily harm no matter if it's directly or indirectly. To start to mess with such important rules of thumb would lead us onto a very, very slippery slope.

typo edit

[Edited 10/14/10 12:12pm]

yeah, I would not do what he did, but if it happened to me (I was tripped) I would think "well, I probably should not have done that"

I think part of my POV is that he did not hit or push her, he simply did not get out of her way completely. I know he intentionally tripped her, but had she given a bit more concern for him she might not have tripped, and even better, she could have avoided the whole situation.

I do see your point (I am in no way saying violence is okay), but I just can't feel bad for her in this particular instance

So to me it clearly seems like you're still saying that she had it coming because of what she did; that somehow the tripping was ultimately her fault. If that's truly what you're saying then we definitely have to agree to disagree.

Cerebus said:

NDRU said:

you made a distinction, saying you shouldn't use force specifically against a woman, I was simply saying this was not a case of a man using overpowering force against a woman

anyway, I am not saying he should have done it, but I do think she initiated a phyical situation and took a risk. You don't walk up to mike tyson and poke him in the face while calling him names either. Do you not see that she is wrong here, even if he is wrong too?

No, dude. Not at all. She didn't walk up to anybody and poke him in the face OR call him names. In fact, she was looking down. All dude had to do was step to the side for a few seconds and go on with his day. That's what a NORMAL human being would have done. Tripping a unsuspecting stranger on a pavement surface is grounds for a neck punch. And this is coming from somebody who admittedly HATES the human race. The rudeness of that woman, everyday normality. The aggression of that guy, totally unacceptable.

So she gives him the neck punch, then what are his rights? To kill her? She started this whole thing, he elevated it.

He couldn't step to the side, he had to back up all the way through the turnstyle. She looks like she put her shoulder into him to me. Not hard, just in a "I don't give a fuck about you I am more important" kind of way. He should not have tripped her, but come on, she should not have done that either.

retina said:

NDRU said:

yeah, I would not do what he did, but if it happened to me (I was tripped) I would think "well, I probably should not have done that"

I think part of my POV is that he did not hit or push her, he simply did not get out of her way completely. I know he intentionally tripped her, but had she given a bit more concern for him she might not have tripped, and even better, she could have avoided the whole situation.

I do see your point (I am in no way saying violence is okay), but I just can't feel bad for her in this particular instance

So to me it clearly seems like you're still saying that she had it coming because of what she did; that somehow the tripping was ultimately her fault. If that's truly what you're saying then we definitely have to agree to disagree.

I am not saying he was right to do it it, but I am saying people like her should not be surprised if stuff like this happens to them.

DrRockdapuss said:

Ok, ya'll. What happens when we substitute a dude for an old lady? Does it change how you feel about people being rude with no expectation of consequence?

This, in my mind, is a question of environment and culture. If you're from a place where violence happens, you think about yourself and your surroundings. I assume every human is fuckin psychotic. I treat them accordingly, with lots of space and politeness. And I watch them like a hawk.

I think people from "good neighborhoods" forget violence is a real thing, so they just go off willynilly. This old woman is a prime example. After she got bust in the snotbox, she looked like she just witnessed a velociraptor holdin a slave auction.

"They still do that...?"

[Edited 10/14/10 12:43pm]

that is kind of my point

I find that video really disturbing, but violence is a real possibility in this world. It is not wise to go pushing people's buttons either physically or verbally.

This world is getting less polite, and I think little incidents will be more frequent.

NDRU said:

retina said:

So to me it clearly seems like you're still saying that she had it coming because of what she did; that somehow the tripping was ultimately her fault. If that's truly what you're saying then we definitely have to agree to disagree.

I am not saying he was right to do it it, but I am saying people like her should not be surprised if stuff like this happens to them.

What is that supposed to mean though? lol

It's as if you're saying that she should expect to get tripped if she's too much in a hurry through a turnstyle; that she should watch out and go out of her way to accomodate assholes like that guy just because he might go beyond everything that's right or proportionate and attack her? That kind of a society, where the assholes get to control other people's lives, is unacceptable. It's one of the reasons that we have laws and rules.

it was an major asshole move on his part

that stemmed from

a minor asshole move on her part

his reaction was excessive

but not that surprising by todays standards

people shouldn't expect to show blatant disrespect or disregard

for others and not receive some kind of reaction,

whether that reaction be appropriate or otherwise

did she ask for it? no

but she created the immediate environment

that led to the reaction

had she muttered

a simple excuse me, I'm sorry

or waited her turn

then likely, we wouldn't even be discussing

his excessive actions

orger said:

it was an major asshole move on his part

that stemmed from

a minor asshole move on her part

his reaction was excessive

but not that surprising by todays standards

people shouldn't expect to show blatant disrespect or disregard

for others and not receive some kind of reaction,

whether that reaction be appropriate or otherwise

did she ask for it? no

but she created the immediate environment

that led to the reaction

had she muttered

a simple excuse me, I'm sorry

or waited her turn

then likely, we wouldn't even be discussing

his excessive actions

I wanna trip you for excessive use of your return key.

I've watched this a couple times. The man is in the turnstile, the woman pushes him back out. To me, the trip doesn't look intentional at all, rather, it looks like he was lifting his leg while being pushed backwards. And then when she falls, he turns to ask if she's ok.

Seems like what she did was intentional, and what he did was accidental.

=0P

They looked like they hit the turnstile at the same time. 50/50 IMO.

But he should've called her a cunt, not tripped her.

Efan said:

orger said:

it was an major asshole move on his part

that stemmed from

a minor asshole move on her part

his reaction was excessive

but not that surprising by todays standards

people shouldn't expect to show blatant disrespect or disregard

for others and not receive some kind of reaction,

whether that reaction be appropriate or otherwise

did she ask for it? no

but she created the immediate environment

that led to the reaction

had she muttered

a simple excuse me, I'm sorry

or waited her turn

then likely, we wouldn't even be discussing

his excessive actions

I wanna trip you for excessive use of your return key.

I totally understand

you won't catch me playng the victim

if you do

DrRockdapuss said:

The impatient woman who wouldn't wait in line or let dude go out first? Jack the Tripper? You decide!!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/wa...qnk1hI-YFU[/youtube]

at him acting all confused "ARE YOU OK??"

But not funny.

No one, has the right to take frustration to any kind of physical manifestation, so fuck him and his cowardly ass if he tripped her on purpose. Even if she was a total bitch.

Some older dude blatantly cut in front of me in line at the grocery store the other day. He considered the line I was at, it was taking too long for his taste. I got in line, then MF had the NERVE to come back and get in front of me. I was like HEY HEY! SIR! SIR! SIR! He totally shot me a look that let me know he knew very well what he was doing but didn't give two shits. I let him know it wasn't cool and TRUST I stared him down till he was so unfomfortable he almost left with out his change , but what the fuck was I gonna do? start throwin down? It's a line, I'll live.

Plus, not to mention, who would people view as the villian if I started goin off on him? Older Asian dude (who barely spoke English?) or the Big Bitchy Evil Queen???

Yeah...

[Edited 10/14/10 13:42pm]

Yeah, I also thought they hit at the same time.

I don't think she did anything wrong here... it's like an all way stop... You come to a stop at the same time as someone else... you wait for the other person to go... they wait for you to go... it only makes the situation worse... It's better if someone makes a decision about who should go first...

[Edited 10/14/10 13:45pm]

retina said:

NDRU said:

I am not saying he was right to do it it, but I am saying people like her should not be surprised if stuff like this happens to them.

What is that supposed to mean though? lol

It's as if you're saying that she should expect to get tripped if she's too much in a hurry through a turnstyle; that she should watch out and go out of her way to accomodate assholes like that guy just because he might go beyond everything that's right or proportionate and attack her? That kind of a society, where the assholes get to control other people's lives, is unacceptable. It's one of the reasons that we have laws and rules.

I'm not saying she deserved it, but that she could have avoided this entirely had she not been an asshole first. She made a choice to be rude...not just rude, but physically imposing.

I totally agree with part of what you are saying, except you have expressed no problem with what she did. In my mind, what she did is a much greater cancer in this modern world. That kind of rudeness is more & more common, and it is a cold choice of selfishness. It causes what he did, which was stupid and wrong, but more of a normal human reaction to having your buttons pushed one too many times--again, not the right response, but one that I know is possible, and that is why I try to be polte aside from the golden rule and yada yada

Anyone is capable of violence, not just assholes. And no, violence is not the answer, except that humans being the animals we are, it often is the answer people receive. That is why politeness is there, so that we do not give people any reason to act like animals.

Let's say I do agree with you that he should not have done that. Can you agree she should not have done it either?

orger said:

Efan said:

I wanna trip you for excessive use of your return key.

I totally understand

you won't catch me playng the victim

if you do

I'd help you up after I tripped you. I'm not a total asshole.

Efan said:

orger said:

I totally understand

you won't catch me playng the victim

if you do

I'd help you up after I tripped you. I'm not a total asshole.

you're like a real life

living, breathing

sour patch kid

johnart said:

Some older dude blatantly cut in front of me in line at the grocery store the other day. He considered the line I was at, it was taking too long for his taste. I got in line, then MF had the NERVE to come back and get in front of me. I was like HEY HEY! SIR! SIR! SIR! He totally shot me a look that let me know he knew very well what he was doing but didn't give two shits. I let him know it wasn't cool and TRUST I stared him down till he was so unfomfortable he almost left with out his change , but what the fuck was I gonna do? start throwin down? It's a line, I'll live.

Plus, not to mention, who would people view as the villian if I started goin off on him? Older Asian dude (who barely spoke English?) or the Big Bitchy Evil Queen???

Who cares what anyone would think? He was in the wrong, not you. You should have got right in front of that old fossil and held your place.

One time some fucktard had the nerve to ask if she could get in front of me because she had less groceries. When I said no, she and her husband started with the rolleyes and shit. I'm like, wait your turn like everybody else. Mfers always trying to get over on somebody. Same shit happens in the subways.

NDRU said:

I'm not saying she deserved it, but that she could have avoided this entirely had she not been an asshole first. She made a choice to be rude...not just rude, but physically imposing.

I totally agree with part of what you are saying, except you have expressed no problem with what she did. In my mind, what she did is a much greater cancer in this modern world. That kind of rudeness is more & more common, and it is a cold choice of selfishness. It causes what he did, which was stupid and wrong, but more of a normal human reaction to having your buttons pushed one too many times--again, not the right response, but one that I know is possible, and that is why I try to be polte aside from the golden rule and yada yada

Anyone is capable of violence, not just assholes. And no, violence is not the answer, except that humans being the animals we are, it often is the answer people receive. That is why politeness is there, so that we do not give people any reason to act like animals.

Let's say I do agree with you that he should not have done that. Can you agree she should not have done it either?

NDRU said:

Cerebus said:

No, dude. Not at all. She didn't walk up to anybody and poke him in the face OR call him names. In fact, she was looking down. All dude had to do was step to the side for a few seconds and go on with his day. That's what a NORMAL human being would have done. Tripping a unsuspecting stranger on a pavement surface is grounds for a neck punch. And this is coming from somebody who admittedly HATES the human race. The rudeness of that woman, everyday normality. The aggression of that guy, totally unacceptable.

So she gives him the neck punch, then what are his rights? To kill her? She started this whole thing, he elevated it.

He couldn't step to the side, he had to back up all the way through the turnstyle. She looks like she put her shoulder into him to me. Not hard, just in a "I don't give a fuck about you I am more important" kind of way. He should not have tripped her, but come on, she should not have done that either.

What are you talking about? The guy tripped a woman for no reason. He had to move one, MAYBE two steps to get out of her rude ass way. This happens to all of us on a regular basis, I'm sure. The grocery store - or any other kind of shopping. Public transportation. Crowded city streets. Walking the hallways at a place of employment. Are you all REALLY trying to say that you go around tripping every person who is slightly rude to you all day long? Give me a break on this subject already because that's some sociopathic, psycho John Doe (from Se7en) bullshit. That guy had ZERO right to trip that woman. Period! And yes, I AM saying that if somebody assaulted me in such a manner that I would get up and show them what was REALLY going on.