thesexofit said:

728huey said:

I totally agree! I didn't see the movie in the theaters, but I did catch it once on TNT, and it was horrible compared to the earlier Batman movies. I know a lot of people blame George Clooney for almost killing the Batman franchise, but I think he could have been an awesome Bruce Wayne if he'd been allowed to act like himself and not given a hackneyed script with horrible dialogue and wacked out scenarios like using staellites to beam sunrays over a frozen city to melt the ice which was presumably three feet thick. Actually, Batman Forever was nearly as bad as this steaming pile of crap, and the only thing that saved that movie from being a total disaster was Jim Carrey's awesome performance as The Riddler.

Yes. I havn't seen it in years but "Batman forever" was indeed saved by Carey. Tommy Lee Jones was miscast. He was just dull. Totally upstaged by a then still growing Jim Carrey.

As for Kilmer? I thought he did good actually. Not as good as Keaton, but still good.

Schumacher's version of Two-Face was totally off. He made him into a poor man's Joker. Shows you he never read(or has any respect for) comics or comic-book writers. One of that hack's quotes was "I want to make Batman fun again" - fucking asshole. Nipples on the Bat-suit - Frank Miller should have kicked his ass for that hot mess. At least dudes like Chris Nolan and Tim Burton 'get it'. Although I don't know what Burton was thinking with Batman Returns. It could have been great with just Batman and Catwoman. Maybe WB forced him to add another villain. I like Danny DeVito, but he sucked as the Penguin.

The Dark Knight is my favorite(one of the best superhero films ever made), followed by Batman '89. I'm lukewarm toward Batman Returns, and the Schumacher films are a steaming pile of dog shit.

[Edited 10/5/10 22:55pm]

uPtoWnNY said:

Although I don't know what Burton was thinking with Batman Returns. It could have been great with just Batman and Catwoman. Maybe WB forced him to add another villain. I like Danny DeVito, but he sucked as the Penguin.

WHAT

WaterInYourBath said:

Michael Keaton was the best. He had a fantastic face. The structure of his mouth/lips looked great in that mask, lol. Plus, his acting style made Batman/Bruce Wayne mysterious and captivating.

Christian Bale is excellent too in my opinion. He's one of my top favorite actors. In contrast to Keaton, I think Bale portrays Bruce Wayne's personality disorder(s) most accurately, and had the best stature and muscle tone.

Val Kilmer was ok. He's a good actor, but didn't really make any impact to me. Jim Carrey was the one who made his movie great.

George Clooney bored me, lol. I didn't find anything interesting about him as Batman, nor did I enjoy the storyline.

So I rank the movies like this:

1) Batman

2) Batman Returns

3) Batman Begins

4) Batman Forever

5) The Dark Knight

6) Batman and Robin ....

Wow...Dark Knight worse than forever? and Begins? Why, out of curiousity?

In response to the original topic, the problem with Batman and Robin is that it was essentially the exact same movie as Batman Forever, with the cheese level ramped up. I still enjoy it on some level: it was the first film I went to see on opening day, and I had a fun time watching it...but it really is a bad movie. Truth be told, Forever is a pretty terrible film too, I can hardly stand to watch it. Mainly because the villains are SO not like their comic counterparts, and the changes they made did nothing to enhance the characters.

As for my list of top films, it would have to go like this:

1. Batman Returns/Dark Knight (Tie. Batman Returns has been my favorite film for a long time, but I realize there are some flaws to it. Dark Knight is near perfect filmmaking, but the soft spot I have for Returns means they're tied. Dark Knight is the closest anyone has come to getting the comics correct.)

2. Batman (Great, iconic film. Almost usurped by Begins, but Danny Elfman brings this one over the top.)

3. Batman Begins (I like this film a lot, but it has a coupld annoyances to me: the end, where he lets Ras die, and the way that Ras was FINALLY in a film, portrayed correctly...but they did nothing with the Lazarus Pit or Talia. That disappointed the crap out of me, since he is my favorite villain.)

4. Batman Forever (Two Face, one of the top villians, reduced to this shlock. Positive note: Chris O'Donnell)

5. Batman & Robin (see above.)

Hero0101 said:

As for my list of top films, it would have to go like this:

1. Batman Returns/Dark Knight (Tie. Batman Returns has been my favorite film for a long time, but I realize there are some flaws to it. Dark Knight is near perfect filmmaking, but the soft spot I have for Returns means they're tied. Dark Knight is the closest anyone has come to getting the comics correct.)

2. Batman (Great, iconic film. Almost usurped by Begins, but Danny Elfman brings this one over the top.)

3. Batman Begins (I like this film a lot, but it has a coupld annoyances to me: the end, where he lets Ras die, and the way that Ras was FINALLY in a film, portrayed correctly...but they did nothing with the Lazarus Pit or Talia. That disappointed the crap out of me, since he is my favorite villain.)

4. Batman Forever (Two Face, one of the top villians, reduced to this shlock. Positive note: Chris O'Donnell)

5. Batman & Robin (see above.)

Nice analysis , my turn

1. The Dark Knight: not only a superior superhero movie, but also a great motion picture. Easily the best attempt (so far) at bringing to life the best Batman comic book of the 90s: The Long Halloween; epic script, strong perfomances and improved action choreography...only X-Men 2 rivals Dark knight as the best superhero film of the 00s...

2. Batman '89: slighty dated, but still a pop culture phenomenon. Excellent portrayal of the Joker by Nicholson (manic violence, manic egocentrism), epic soundtrack, a fine Bruce Wayne/Batman and an amazing set design. I also appreciate the effort of the filmmakers to recreate the feel of the 30s/40s comics (smartass journalists, gangsters with pastel suits, incompetent police force, etc.) with the dark/serious edge of Neil Adams/Frank Miller...and the batplane is BADASS Until Begins/Dark Knight appeared, this was the definitive Batman movie...Many people hate the fact that the Jocker is the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents, but in this movie that twist actually worked...

3. Batman Begins: flawed, but a very strong and enthusiastic portrayal of the origins of Batman, clearly based on Batman: Year One (Frank Miller). I guess Batman is one of the few superheroes that deserves a well-crafted film about his early life and how he became a superhero... Flaws: Katie Holmes is decent, but trite (Maggie was a major improvement) and the movie, despite being absolutely necessary, feels like an extended intro of bigger/better things to come...

4.Batman Forever: many people hate this movie, but back in 1995 it was a blast. After the murky/sad/dark Returns, Schumacher (briefly) brought some excitement back to the franchise: superior action sequences, exciting new soundtrack and a decent portrayal of the origins of Robin. If not for the friggin' green rays and Tommy Lee's overacting, this sequel could have been much better. Uneven, but watchable, and Kilmer looked great as Batman...

5.Batman Returns: a complete mess; too violent, too dark, too sad, too Burtonish...Catwoman is horribly underused and the Penguin is just disgusting, not scary nor pitiful; the character of Max Schrek was much more interesting, but the screenwriters should have used an original gangster of the comics (Maroni or Falcone)...Schrek was just a character created for the movie, and that sucked...Silly new soundtrack, too many plot holes and a weak final battle: the army of missile-armed penguins was insanely silly and a hint of worse things to come : green rays, Mr.Freeze, etc. That said, the scene where Selina Kyle finally loses it and goes insane is one of the best scenes of all time...

6.Batman & Robin: I think this thread says it all. Bad bad bad...

In a word, YES.

Schumacher KILLED the franchise.

Nolan brought it back.

And you can't blame Clooney for it sucking. Actually, he's the ONLY actor that looked the part of BOTH Bruce Wayne AND Batman. Keaton was an alright Bruce Wayne (not really) but was in no way believable as The Dark Knight. Kilmer looked decent in costume, but wasn't Bruce Wayne AT ALL.

No, the blame lies totally at Schumacher's feet and he knows it. Not only did Nolan bring back the Batman franchise, but the entire superhero genre on film's resurgence can be i think directly linked to his realistic portrayal and love for the material.

It took years for the character to evolve from the campy 60's era and Schumacher got it back there in one disaster of a film.

And if i see him on the street, i'm also kicking him in the junk and getting my money back.

ButterscotchPimp said:

In a word, YES.

Schumacher KILLED the franchise.

Nolan brought it back.

And you can't blame Clooney for it sucking. Actually, he's the ONLY actor that looked the part of BOTH Bruce Wayne AND Batman. Keaton was an alright Bruce Wayne (not really) but was in no way believable as The Dark Knight. Kilmer looked decent in costume, but wasn't Bruce Wayne AT ALL.

No, the blame lies totally at Schumacher's feet and he knows it. Not only did Nolan bring back the Batman franchise, but the entire superhero genre on film's resurgence can be i think directly linked to his realistic portrayal and love for the material.

It took years for the character to evolve from the campy 60's era and Schumacher got it back there in one disaster of a film.

And if i see him on the street, i'm also kicking him in the junk and getting my money back.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Hershe said:

ButterscotchPimp said:

Kilmer looked decent in costume, but wasn't Bruce Wayne AT ALL.

I think the little boy Bruce (he was great) in Batman Begins would grow up to be Val Kilmer's Bruce.

Couldn't disagree more. Val Kilmer didn't look the part at all.

I think that Christian Bale would grow up to be George Clooney if they cast Clooney in the movie adaptation of "The Dark Knight Returns".

i'm a genius.

yeah, it pretty much sucked

too many characters

Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy

not a single one of them had personality

I've never understood the love for Batman Returns

it's not a terrible movie, it's just kinda ok

ButterscotchPimp said:

I couldn't even finish watching the 1989 "Batman" movie because it was so boring so I never watched any of the ones that followed. It was nothing like I expected to see. I loved the television series from the 1960s and I wanted to see something similar to that.

orger said:

I've never understood the love for Batman Returns

it's not a terrible movie, it's just kinda ok

I hate Batman Returns. It should have been sponsored by Excedrin. That movie is just a giant headache-maker. I'd rather listen to two hours of nails running down chalkboards than watch Batman Returns, with Danny Devito obnoxiously squawking and all the loud, hammy overacting from the entire cast. Even the soundtrack is loud and intrusive. Plus the story is incredibly stupid.

And yes, Batman and Robin was that bad a movie. Just awful, awful stuff. Thankfully, Nolan came along and saved the franchise.

Batman fans like me, who grew up reading the Neal Adams and Dennis O´Neil stories, will always have a fondness for what Chris Nolan and Christian Bale created because their version of Batman truly lives up to what fans of the 1970s/early 1980s Batman comics expect.

No other Batman movie even comes close to Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

I wish Chris Nolan would bring back Ras Al Ghul somehow and use the "Lazarus Pit" storyline and turn it into a great movie, he and Christian Bale REALLY seem to be very dedicated to the original DC superhero...rather than just making another movie, they have obviously studied the character, his background and his friends and villains.

All the other Batman movies, including the ones that Tim Burton made with Michael Keaton, left me totally cold. The first one (1989) was okay, though Keaton was neither convicing as Bruce Wayne nor as Batman, but it was still watchable. What Joel Schumacher did was atrocious.

I liked the 1960s series when I was a kid and the movie to it also wasn´t that bad for its time but, as I grew older, I learned to appreciate Neal Adams, Dennis O´Neil and Frank Miller so much that I can´t really like any other Batman movies than the Nolan ones anymore.

He and Bale came closest to how I always wanted a Batman movie to be .

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are the best superhero movies EVER and I watched The Dark Knight two times on two consecutive days, that´s how much I liked it.

Can´t wait for part III.

kpowers said:

After 10 minutes I walked out of the movie and went over to George Clooney's house and kicked the living shit out of him. I told him never ever make another movie about me again.

That had to hurt.

KoolEaze said:

Batman fans like me, who grew up reading the Neal Adams and Dennis O´Neil stories, will always have a fondness for what Chris Nolan and Christian Bale created because their version of Batman truly lives up to what fans of the 1970s/early 1980s Batman comics expect.

No other Batman movie even comes close to Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

I wish Chris Nolan would bring back Ras Al Ghul somehow and use the "Lazarus Pit" storyline and turn it into a great movie, he and Christian Bale REALLY seem to be very dedicated to the original DC superhero...rather than just making another movie, they have obviously studied the character, his background and his friends and villains.

All the other Batman movies, including the ones that Tim Burton made with Michael Keaton, left me totally cold. The first one (1989) was okay, though Keaton was neither convicing as Bruce Wayne nor as Batman, but it was still watchable. What Joel Schumacher did was atrocious.

I liked the 1960s series when I was a kid and the movie to it also wasn´t that bad for its time but, as I grew older, I learned to appreciate Neal Adams, Dennis O´Neil and Frank Miller so much that I can´t really like any other Batman movies than the Nolan ones anymore.

He and Bale came closest to how I always wanted a Batman movie to be .

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are the best superhero movies EVER and I watched The Dark Knight two times on two consecutive days, that´s how much I liked it.

Can´t wait for part III.

Everything you wrote is so right. I can totally see what Ivy sees in you.

Yes it was that horrible.

Efan said:

Efan said:

Hero0101 said:

WaterInYourBath said:

Michael Keaton was the best. He had a fantastic face. The structure of his mouth/lips looked great in that mask, lol. Plus, his acting style made Batman/Bruce Wayne mysterious and captivating.

Christian Bale is excellent too in my opinion. He's one of my top favorite actors. In contrast to Keaton, I think Bale portrays Bruce Wayne's personality disorder(s) most accurately, and had the best stature and muscle tone.

Val Kilmer was ok. He's a good actor, but didn't really make any impact to me. Jim Carrey was the one who made his movie great.

George Clooney bored me, lol. I didn't find anything interesting about him as Batman, nor did I enjoy the storyline.

So I rank the movies like this:

1) Batman

2) Batman Returns

3) Batman Begins

4) Batman Forever

5) The Dark Knight

6) Batman and Robin ....

Wow...Dark Knight worse than forever? and Begins? Why, out of curiousity?

In response to the original topic, the problem with Batman and Robin is that it was essentially the exact same movie as Batman Forever, with the cheese level ramped up. I still enjoy it on some level: it was the first film I went to see on opening day, and I had a fun time watching it...but it really is a bad movie. Truth be told, Forever is a pretty terrible film too, I can hardly stand to watch it. Mainly because the villains are SO not like their comic counterparts, and the changes they made did nothing to enhance the characters.

As for my list of top films, it would have to go like this:

1. Batman Returns/Dark Knight (Tie. Batman Returns has been my favorite film for a long time, but I realize there are some flaws to it. Dark Knight is near perfect filmmaking, but the soft spot I have for Returns means they're tied. Dark Knight is the closest anyone has come to getting the comics correct.)

2. Batman (Great, iconic film. Almost usurped by Begins, but Danny Elfman brings this one over the top.)

3. Batman Begins (I like this film a lot, but it has a coupld annoyances to me: the end, where he lets Ras die, and the way that Ras was FINALLY in a film, portrayed correctly...but they did nothing with the Lazarus Pit or Talia. That disappointed the crap out of me, since he is my favorite villain.)

4. Batman Forever (Two Face, one of the top villians, reduced to this shlock. Positive note: Chris O'Donnell)

5. Batman & Robin (see above.)

Yep. Dark Knight is ranked lower for me because of the way they characterized Joker in that one. I prefer the look of Joker that's seen in the cartoons and video games (like how Jack Nicholson played him). I don't read the comics, so I couldn't relate to Heath Ledger's portrayal. Plus, I love Jim Carrey as Riddler in Forever, so I just have to rank that one higher. And regarding Begins, I just think that's a better movie/storyline overall than Dark Knight.

This thread is like being on another site. Weird, but cool.

Cerebus said:

KoolEaze said:

Batman fans like me, who grew up reading the Neal Adams and Dennis O´Neil stories, will always have a fondness for what Chris Nolan and Christian Bale created because their version of Batman truly lives up to what fans of the 1970s/early 1980s Batman comics expect.

No other Batman movie even comes close to Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

I wish Chris Nolan would bring back Ras Al Ghul somehow and use the "Lazarus Pit" storyline and turn it into a great movie, he and Christian Bale REALLY seem to be very dedicated to the original DC superhero...rather than just making another movie, they have obviously studied the character, his background and his friends and villains.

All the other Batman movies, including the ones that Tim Burton made with Michael Keaton, left me totally cold. The first one (1989) was okay, though Keaton was neither convicing as Bruce Wayne nor as Batman, but it was still watchable. What Joel Schumacher did was atrocious.

I liked the 1960s series when I was a kid and the movie to it also wasn´t that bad for its time but, as I grew older, I learned to appreciate Neal Adams, Dennis O´Neil and Frank Miller so much that I can´t really like any other Batman movies than the Nolan ones anymore.

He and Bale came closest to how I always wanted a Batman movie to be .

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are the best superhero movies EVER and I watched The Dark Knight two times on two consecutive days, that´s how much I liked it.

Can´t wait for part III.

While we're at it, I would probably explode from delight if the Hugo Strange storyline--with an awesome actress playing Silver St. Cloud--were ever done on film.

That, and the Joker fish.

I have not seen it since it was in the theater, but I remember being angry at how the movie was insulting my intelligence. It was like watching a music video. Everything was so phony.

I never thought that MIchael Keaton was the best choice for Batman, but Clooney seemed so stiff. Worst of all was the decline of the villain. Nicholson>DeVito>Jones/Carrey>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Schwarzenegger

I absolutely LOVE IT. Uma Thurman was SOOOO fierce!! It's just sooooo campy. I was 14 when I saw it, and it's one of my favorites. It's just so over the top "comic-y" lol

Efan said:

KoolEaze said:

Batman fans like me, who grew up reading the Neal Adams and Dennis O´Neil stories, will always have a fondness for what Chris Nolan and Christian Bale created because their version of Batman truly lives up to what fans of the 1970s/early 1980s Batman comics expect.

No other Batman movie even comes close to Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

I wish Chris Nolan would bring back Ras Al Ghul somehow and use the "Lazarus Pit" storyline and turn it into a great movie, he and Christian Bale REALLY seem to be very dedicated to the original DC superhero...rather than just making another movie, they have obviously studied the character, his background and his friends and villains.

All the other Batman movies, including the ones that Tim Burton made with Michael Keaton, left me totally cold. The first one (1989) was okay, though Keaton was neither convicing as Bruce Wayne nor as Batman, but it was still watchable. What Joel Schumacher did was atrocious.

I liked the 1960s series when I was a kid and the movie to it also wasn´t that bad for its time but, as I grew older, I learned to appreciate Neal Adams, Dennis O´Neil and Frank Miller so much that I can´t really like any other Batman movies than the Nolan ones anymore.

He and Bale came closest to how I always wanted a Batman movie to be .

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are the best superhero movies EVER and I watched The Dark Knight two times on two consecutive days, that´s how much I liked it.

Can´t wait for part III.

While we're at it, I would probably explode from delight if the Hugo Strange storyline--with an awesome actress playing Silver St. Cloud--were ever done on film.

That, and the Joker fish.

Absolutely !

And thanks a lot for the compliments.

Vendetta1 said:

Efan said:

Everything you wrote is so right. I can totally see what Ivy sees in you.

He's smart and he's hot.

Ehhhhmm....thanks !

KoolEaze said:

Vendetta1 said:

Efan said: He's smart and he's hot.

Ehhhhmm....thanks !

You know it's true.

Number23 said:

A sneak peek of Hell.

I loved the 60's TV series Batman. I was a big fan of the show as a kid and love the series and the 6o's movie version now.

Yes, you can blame Clooney, with his no acting ass. The previews for that movie looked bad, I didn't even bother. Mr. Freeze and Two-face have always been my favorite villains. Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze was a joke and Mr. Clooney wasn't masculint enough to play Batman. (IMO) When it came on cable I tried to watch it but . . .

I tolerated Michael Keaton as Batman and liked Val Kilmer, a lot. Someone mentioned Kilmer embodied Bruce Wayne, I agree. It's my understanding Kilmer would have played the part again ( "Batman and Robin") if he hadn't clashed with the producer and the director. Needless to say I like Christian Bale and I look forward to how the franchise evolves with him as Batman. I hope they decided to use some of the lessor known villains such as False Face, Shame, and Hush.