XxAxX said:

johnart said:

Why do I even watch it? I just end up yelling at the tv screen and pissed off every time.

Why are these nasty ass people (yes I know it's insensitive of me and that this is a disorder) not forced to live in some sort of monitored group home situation? Especially when kids are involved.

Lawd and then they always gotta start up with it being everybody else's problem.

[Edited 9/6/10 20:34pm]

there's a SHOW about this?

Actually, two shows - "Hoarders" on A&E, and "Hoarding: Buried Alive" on TLC. I actually prefer the TLC show because that show seems to really delve into why the person became a hoarder. From the few episodes I've seen, it's almost always brought on by a trauma. They are both fascinating shows, if not disgusting and hard to watch at times.

This show makes me feel bad for being unorganized, at times slobbish, and a record collector.

johnart said:

How does Oh Hell No! Clean Yo Shit! sound for my show? Too insensitive?

EmeraldSkies said:

Body of Las Vegas woman found in clutter at home

LAS VEGAS — A four-month search for a missing Las Vegas woman came to a ghastly end this week when her husband found her corpse in their home amid a labyrinth of squalor that had been impassable even to search dogs.

Bill James apparently had no idea that the body of his pack-rat wife, Billie Jean, was under the same roof as he helped police scour the home and the Nevada desert for any sign of her. Then he spotted the feet of the body poking out of a floor-to-ceiling pile of junk Wednesday, revealing in shocking detail the woman's penchant for hoarding.

Police say they searched the home several times — even using dogs from a unit that helped locate bodies at ground zero after Sept. 11 and Hurricane Katrina. But they were unable to find the body of amid the piles of clothes, knickknacks, trash and other junk.

"For our dogs to go through that house and not find something should be indicative of the tremendous environmental challenges they faced," police spokesman Bill Cassell said.

Clark County Coroner's office spokeswoman Jessica Coloma said it could take weeks to determine when and how the 67-year-old woman died. The husband has been cooperative throughout the investigation and quickly notified police of his discovery.

One thing is not in doubt about the case: Billie Jean James loved to hoard. It's a behavior that has received new attention this year with two popular reality TV shows — "Hoarding: Buried Alive" and "Hoarders" — that chronicle the lives of people who live in absolute squalor because they cannot bring themselves to throw anything away.

A similar situation could be seen at the James' home in a desert-front cul-de-sac near the Las Vegas Strip. In the driveway sits two huge trash bins that require industrial-sized trucks to haul them away. The front patio is filled with knickknacks including old chairs, smaller trash bins and a 10-foot basketball hoop.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...s/us_news/

Sad.

I always had that question:

Ok what's up with all the Hoarders shows, nasty houses, pack rats, animal hoarders and then there are them darn children Hoarder shows - Kate plus 8, 19 and counting, octomom! SMDH!!!!!!!!!!

I am glad they are bringing attention to this. It was like a hidden problem, which is likely unique to our country since there is so much available. Anybody living like this needs help, and so do any children involved. I have to admit, the show pisses me off...and if I had a loved one who is a hoarder, I would probably just send in people to throw all of their shit away after I have had them temporarily institutionalized . Something probably fell on the woman......

EmeraldSkies said:

Body of Las Vegas woman found in clutter at home

LAS VEGAS — A four-month search for a missing Las Vegas woman came to a ghastly end this week when her husband found her corpse in their home amid a labyrinth of squalor that had been impassable even to search dogs.

Bill James apparently had no idea that the body of his pack-rat wife, Billie Jean, was under the same roof as he helped police scour the home and the Nevada desert for any sign of her. Then he spotted the feet of the body poking out of a floor-to-ceiling pile of junk Wednesday, revealing in shocking detail the woman's penchant for hoarding.

Police say they searched the home several times — even using dogs from a unit that helped locate bodies at ground zero after Sept. 11 and Hurricane Katrina. But they were unable to find the body of amid the piles of clothes, knickknacks, trash and other junk.

"For our dogs to go through that house and not find something should be indicative of the tremendous environmental challenges they faced," police spokesman Bill Cassell said.

Clark County Coroner's office spokeswoman Jessica Coloma said it could take weeks to determine when and how the 67-year-old woman died. The husband has been cooperative throughout the investigation and quickly notified police of his discovery.

One thing is not in doubt about the case: Billie Jean James loved to hoard. It's a behavior that has received new attention this year with two popular reality TV shows — "Hoarding: Buried Alive" and "Hoarders" — that chronicle the lives of people who live in absolute squalor because they cannot bring themselves to throw anything away.

A similar situation could be seen at the James' home in a desert-front cul-de-sac near the Las Vegas Strip. In the driveway sits two huge trash bins that require industrial-sized trucks to haul them away. The front patio is filled with knickknacks including old chairs, smaller trash bins and a 10-foot basketball hoop.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...s/us_news/

That's mental, I wonder how she got under all that stuff unless she was digging under looking for something?

wildgoldenhoney said:

EmeraldSkies said:

Body of Las Vegas woman found in clutter at home

LAS VEGAS — A four-month search for a missing Las Vegas woman came to a ghastly end this week when her husband found her corpse in their home amid a labyrinth of squalor that had been impassable even to search dogs.

Bill James apparently had no idea that the body of his pack-rat wife, Billie Jean, was under the same roof as he helped police scour the home and the Nevada desert for any sign of her. Then he spotted the feet of the body poking out of a floor-to-ceiling pile of junk Wednesday, revealing in shocking detail the woman's penchant for hoarding.

Police say they searched the home several times — even using dogs from a unit that helped locate bodies at ground zero after Sept. 11 and Hurricane Katrina. But they were unable to find the body of amid the piles of clothes, knickknacks, trash and other junk.

"For our dogs to go through that house and not find something should be indicative of the tremendous environmental challenges they faced," police spokesman Bill Cassell said.

Clark County Coroner's office spokeswoman Jessica Coloma said it could take weeks to determine when and how the 67-year-old woman died. The husband has been cooperative throughout the investigation and quickly notified police of his discovery.

One thing is not in doubt about the case: Billie Jean James loved to hoard. It's a behavior that has received new attention this year with two popular reality TV shows — "Hoarding: Buried Alive" and "Hoarders" — that chronicle the lives of people who live in absolute squalor because they cannot bring themselves to throw anything away.

A similar situation could be seen at the James' home in a desert-front cul-de-sac near the Las Vegas Strip. In the driveway sits two huge trash bins that require industrial-sized trucks to haul them away. The front patio is filled with knickknacks including old chairs, smaller trash bins and a 10-foot basketball hoop.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...s/us_news/

That's mental, I wonder how she got under all that stuff unless she was digging under looking for something?

She might have been,but she is not the only woman to have died this way. In England there was a 77-year old lady that died,after a pile of suitcases fell on her. She was also a hoarder.

I don't think it's very hard to understand hoarders' behaviour. Most people let their homes fall into disrepair, let dirty dishes stack up, stuff lying around on the floor etc when they're feeling depressed. It's as if the clutter in our minds manifests itself through clutter in our homes. Hoarders just follow an extreme version of that pattern.

I've only seen the commercials but I love it when that possum runs thru the pile of crap! Priceless.

retina said:

I don't think it's very hard to understand hoarders' behaviour. Most people let their homes fall into disrepair, let dirty dishes stack up, stuff lying around on the floor etc when they're feeling depressed. It's as if the clutter in our minds manifests itself through clutter in our homes. Hoarders just follow an extreme version of that pattern.

That's an interesting point.

Why is it that, in seemingly every case, the hoarder develops extreme attachments and assigns deep meaning to useless junk - tons and tons of useless junk. Maybe that's a reflection of what they feel they're missing?

PunkMistress said:

retina said:

I don't think it's very hard to understand hoarders' behaviour. Most people let their homes fall into disrepair, let dirty dishes stack up, stuff lying around on the floor etc when they're feeling depressed. It's as if the clutter in our minds manifests itself through clutter in our homes. Hoarders just follow an extreme version of that pattern.

That's an interesting point.

Why is it that, in seemingly every case, the hoarder develops extreme attachments and assigns deep meaning to useless junk - tons and tons of useless junk. Maybe that's a reflection of what they feel they're missing?

Yeah, you're probably onto something there. Their lives are all a mess in their heads and in their homes they have a thousand physical representations of every thought and feeling and emotional attachment. The border between the abstract emotions and the concrete junk has been totally blurred and if they don't cling to all of those items they probably feel like they have nothing at all to live for. The items bring a sense of security and familiarity.

Also, the apathy that depression brings simply prevents the hoarders from sorting things out.

Just my guess.

One of the shows said that hoarders have a relationship with their things instead of relationships with real people. That, in part, makes it so difficult for them to let go of their things. I can totally see that. Hoarding behavior is so isolating.

Nothinbutjoy said:

One of the shows said that hoarders have a relationship with their things instead of relationships with real people. That, in part, makes it so difficult for them to let go of their things. I can totally see that. Hoarding behavior is so isolating.

That's gotta be the only reason they would keep around botulism bulging expired food.

Cinnie said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

One of the shows said that hoarders have a relationship with their things instead of relationships with real people. That, in part, makes it so difficult for them to let go of their things. I can totally see that. Hoarding behavior is so isolating.

That's gotta be the only reason they would keep around botulism bulging expired food.

You know what bugs me about this show, and this sorta goes along with the coddling that johnart mentioned, is... I have yet to hear a really good reason for keeping around not only "useless" items, but items that have passed that and are now hazardous.

retina said:

PunkMistress said:

That's an interesting point.

Why is it that, in seemingly every case, the hoarder develops extreme attachments and assigns deep meaning to useless junk - tons and tons of useless junk. Maybe that's a reflection of what they feel they're missing?

Yeah, you're probably onto something there. Their lives are all a mess in their heads and in their homes they have a thousand physical representations of every thought and feeling and emotional attachment. The border between the abstract emotions and the concrete junk has been totally blurred and if they don't cling to all of those items they probably feel like they have nothing at all to live for. The items bring a sense of security and familiarity.

Also, the apathy that depression brings simply prevents the hoarders from sorting things out.

Just my guess.

Interesting points...

I had a family member start...

she was OCD-ish.... always kept her house spotless,

then she started buying shit in bulk... to be prepared... for anything

she bought out of fear, she kept buying, and she then had clutter... tons of clutter, then the clutter overtook her....

we helped her by taking a few things out and killing all the vermin that made new homes out of all the nesting materials. That was her "rock bottom".

She learned to throw things out, and I blame the fact that she grew up without nothing and depression she was sufferring from. I think an extreme need to prove your self-sufficiency plays a part too.

People that suffer from depression have a hard time gauging what is enough and what is over compensation.

She told me that she bought because she thought it was important to have stuff because she never had stuff as a child and she went with out. She never wanted to go through that again, so now she has balance and is healthy.

Cinnie said:

Cinnie said:

That's gotta be the only reason they would keep around botulism bulging expired food.

You know what bugs me about this show, and this sorta goes along with the coddling that johnart mentioned, is... I have yet to hear a really good reason for keeping around not only "useless" items, but items that have passed that and are now hazardous.

The other thing that bugs me about the show (though I still watch out of sheer fascination and compulsion) and a lot of other shows, for that matter (Obssessed and Intervention, to name a few) is that while there is the positive of making certain conditions known and bringing them up for discussion...there is a level of "Freak-Show-ism" to them. I'm not saying the folk suffering from these conditions are freaks, I am saying that I think a lot of these show's success probably relies on the old "rubbernecking" syndrome or folk feeling better about themselves by watching others wallow in some sort of disabling condition.

Nothinbutjoy said:

One of the shows said that hoarders have a relationship with their things instead of relationships with real people. That, in part, makes it so difficult for them to let go of their things. I can totally see that. Hoarding behavior is so isolating.

On the other hand, they don't form very good relationships with these things. Hardly anything is ever cared for properly.

EmeraldSkies said:

wildgoldenhoney said:

That's mental, I wonder how she got under all that stuff unless she was digging under looking for something?

She might have been,but she is not the only woman to have died this way. In England there was a 77-year old lady that died,after a pile of suitcases fell on her. She was also a hoarder.

Probably because they were both old and frail that it contributed to their death.

PunkMistress said:

retina said:

I don't think it's very hard to understand hoarders' behaviour. Most people let their homes fall into disrepair, let dirty dishes stack up, stuff lying around on the floor etc when they're feeling depressed. It's as if the clutter in our minds manifests itself through clutter in our homes. Hoarders just follow an extreme version of that pattern.

That's an interesting point.

Why is it that, in seemingly every case, the hoarder develops extreme attachments and assigns deep meaning to useless junk - tons and tons of useless junk. Maybe that's a reflection of what they feel they're missing?

My hoarder friend says she felt discarded as a child, thrown away like a piece of rubbish by those she loved.

paintedlady said:

retina said:

Yeah, you're probably onto something there. Their lives are all a mess in their heads and in their homes they have a thousand physical representations of every thought and feeling and emotional attachment. The border between the abstract emotions and the concrete junk has been totally blurred and if they don't cling to all of those items they probably feel like they have nothing at all to live for. The items bring a sense of security and familiarity.

Also, the apathy that depression brings simply prevents the hoarders from sorting things out.

Just my guess.

Interesting points...

I had a family member start...

she was OCD-ish.... always kept her house spotless,

then she started buying shit in bulk... to be prepared... for anything

she bought out of fear, she kept buying, and she then had clutter... tons of clutter, then the clutter overtook her....

we helped her by taking a few things out and killing all the vermin that made new homes out of all the nesting materials. That was her "rock bottom".

She learned to throw things out, and I blame the fact that she grew up without nothing and depression she was sufferring from. I think an extreme need to prove your self-sufficiency plays a part too.

People that suffer from depression have a hard time gauging what is enough and what is over compensation.

She told me that she bought because she thought it was important to have stuff because she never had stuff as a child and she went with out. She never wanted to go through that again, so now she has balance and is healthy.

yup

and it's not apathy usually, but feeling overwhelmed by all the stuff, that really, where do you start? I could work all day at my friend's apartment and not make a dent. She used to buy bookcases and storage boxes and fill them up and still have no order. The stacked up boxes made it impossible to find out what was even IN them. In fact we have about 15 of these boxes in our back shed that she has no space for, and will NEVER have any space for.

paintedlady said:

retina said:

Yeah, you're probably onto something there. Their lives are all a mess in their heads and in their homes they have a thousand physical representations of every thought and feeling and emotional attachment. The border between the abstract emotions and the concrete junk has been totally blurred and if they don't cling to all of those items they probably feel like they have nothing at all to live for. The items bring a sense of security and familiarity.

Also, the apathy that depression brings simply prevents the hoarders from sorting things out.

Just my guess.

Interesting points...

I had a family member start...

she was OCD-ish.... always kept her house spotless,

then she started buying shit in bulk... to be prepared... for anything

she bought out of fear, she kept buying, and she then had clutter... tons of clutter, then the clutter overtook her....

we helped her by taking a few things out and killing all the vermin that made new homes out of all the nesting materials. That was her "rock bottom".

She learned to throw things out, and I blame the fact that she grew up without nothing and depression she was sufferring from. I think an extreme need to prove your self-sufficiency plays a part too.

People that suffer from depression have a hard time gauging what is enough and what is over compensation.

She told me that she bought because she thought it was important to have stuff because she never had stuff as a child and she went with out. She never wanted to go through that again, so now she has balance and is healthy.

I think you're right. Overcompensation is definitely a factor and the depression allows it to get out of control. Sorry to hear that it got to the point where she had vermin nesting. Knowing that probably made her even less likely to deal with it all. It had just gotten too out of hand.

When I think about my own more mundane tendency to allow clutter, I usually clean up as long as it doesn't get beyond a certain point. It's as if there's some kind of majority rule at work; if the majority of the apartment is clean then I want to keep the rest clean too. But if it gets to a point (maybe after a party or whatever) where most of the apartment feels messy, then I'm likely to just allow the rest to get messy too. Maybe hoarders reach a similar point, with the difference being that once it's gotten out of control there's just no turning back?

If I've had it really messy for a while I either just get sick of it or something happens (like a visit from a friend) that forces me to clean up. Hoarders probably don't have people coming over very often and because of that they don't get pushed into cleaning either.

johnart said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

One of the shows said that hoarders have a relationship with their things instead of relationships with real people. That, in part, makes it so difficult for them to let go of their things. I can totally see that. Hoarding behavior is so isolating.

On the other hand, they don't form very good relationships with these things. Hardly anything is ever cared for properly.

It's a twisted sense of control. They do what they do to have control their environment/life, but in reality, their environment takes control of their life.

I can understand "how" a hoarder thinks... they think they shouldnt throw anything out because sometime they may need it, or be able to use it for something else and it just blows up from there... If they see a good sale, they cant pass it up because it was a good bargain... And in time, this becomes an obsession that spirals out of control...

What I dont understand is this... They all know what they are doing is wrong, unhealthy, and in alot of cases harmful to their families, why cant they change the behaviour? Sure, I would LOVE to eat nothing but sugar all day, but I know its bad so I dont...Its called self control... If a person can recognize this bad behaviour I dont understand why they cant control themselves... And I dont think its a mental "illness" per say because its not something one has to takes meds for? Its kind of like the panic attack thread to me, They are something that can be controlled just by the power of self control...

HonestMan13 said:

I've only seen the commercials but I love it when that possum runs thru the pile of crap! Priceless.

SERIOUSLY! That possum did it for me! They are the nastiest scavenger around. I call them the devil rats! Their teeth are razor sharp. This show makes me want to clean my already clean house!

It's a shame these people have so many enablers in their lives. Someone between a husband/wife/children/cousin or friend should offer to clean or hire someone before their homes become a health hazard.

retina said:

paintedlady said:

Interesting points...

I had a family member start...

she was OCD-ish.... always kept her house spotless,

then she started buying shit in bulk... to be prepared... for anything

she bought out of fear, she kept buying, and she then had clutter... tons of clutter, then the clutter overtook her....

we helped her by taking a few things out and killing all the vermin that made new homes out of all the nesting materials. That was her "rock bottom".

She learned to throw things out, and I blame the fact that she grew up without nothing and depression she was sufferring from. I think an extreme need to prove your self-sufficiency plays a part too.

People that suffer from depression have a hard time gauging what is enough and what is over compensation.

She told me that she bought because she thought it was important to have stuff because she never had stuff as a child and she went with out. She never wanted to go through that again, so now she has balance and is healthy.

I think you're right. Overcompensation is definitely a factor and the depression allows it to get out of control. Sorry to hear that it got to the point where she had vermin nesting. Knowing that probably made her even less likely to deal with it all. It had just gotten too out of hand.

When I think about my own more mundane tendency to allow clutter, I usually clean up as long as it doesn't get beyond a certain point. It's as if there's some kind of majority rule at work; if the majority of the apartment is clean then I want to keep the rest clean too. But if it gets to a point (maybe after a party or whatever) where most of the apartment feels messy, then I'm likely to just allow the rest to get messy too. Maybe hoarders reach a similar point, with the difference being that once it's gotten out of control there's just no turning back?

If I've had it really messy for a while I either just get sick of it or something happens (like a visit from a friend) that forces me to clean up. Hoarders probably don't have people coming over very often and because of that they don't get pushed into cleaning either.

Yeah, I think people that live like that go outside and escape their homes.

I am the same as you... I have 3 kids I'm raising alone, so since their dad left (he was a neat freak) I am relaxed about the small messes. Sometimes it can feel like shoveling shit against the tide... it just keeps coming back. So I let the kids be kids and we clean withe the same attitude.

I get scared for these people that hoard stuff because its such a fire hazard!

ZombieKitten said:

yup

and it's not apathy usually, but feeling overwhelmed by all the stuff, that really, where do you start? I could work all day at my friend's apartment and not make a dent. She used to buy bookcases and storage boxes and fill them up and still have no order. The stacked up boxes made it impossible to find out what was even IN them. In fact we have about 15 of these boxes in our back shed that she has no space for, and will NEVER have any space for.

!!!!

Were you amazed as much as I was as to how the person was able to find new and inventive places/ways to fill a space with crap? OMG!!! The person I helped was storing stuff inside stuff. Every availble nook and cranny. The air was horrible, so dusty! I don't understand how anyone that hoards doesn't develope breathing problems.

paintedlady said:

ZombieKitten said:

yup

and it's not apathy usually, but feeling overwhelmed by all the stuff, that really, where do you start? I could work all day at my friend's apartment and not make a dent. She used to buy bookcases and storage boxes and fill them up and still have no order. The stacked up boxes made it impossible to find out what was even IN them. In fact we have about 15 of these boxes in our back shed that she has no space for, and will NEVER have any space for.

!!!!

Were you amazed as much as I was as to how the person was able to find new and inventive places/ways to fill a space with crap? OMG!!! The person I helped was storing stuff inside stuff. Every availble nook and cranny. The air was horrible, so dusty! I don't understand how anyone that hoards doesn't develope breathing problems.

she is in denial

she says her place is "messy" she always says, "excuse the place it's a bit of a nightmare".

A normal person can see that the problem is NOT that she has a lack of space or a "storage problem" a normal person simply does not accumulate that much stuff.

Like Tina says, the fear that she might need it later prevents her from throwing it out, however, having 3 tricycles somewhere for when her kid is old enough, defeats the purpose if he reaches the age of 5 (too old for them) before she can locate them again.

Her place stinks because a piece of fruit fell behind stuff and can't be found.

Her and her kid are ALWAYS sick. Mainly stomach flus and respiratory ailments. Surprise surprise.

OK, I had my third appointment with my Occupational therapist yesterday and my third appointment with my nurse today and saw my social worker on Wednesday. None of these people actually clean and I can only imagine what all of this is costing insurance wise.

While the occupatiional therapist was there, she is an expert on hoarders, another hoarder who she was suppose to see after me called and wanted to cancel. The woman, we will call her Daisy, is so ashamed of her hoarding that she won't let help in.

I asked my Occupational therapist if we could work towards getting a support group together so that people like Daisy who were mortified to let "normal" people know their thoughts and life could get help from folks like herself who she didn't have to be embarassed in front of.

I am bad, but I don't collect garbage and I am more of a clutterer than a hoarder. I have magazines but they are all less than 2 years old, most less than a year. I just can not organize for shit. Also sales always get me because, like alot of these people, I was once homeless. I tend to think "I will never be able to get it at this price again!" I hate to shop because I have to PULL myself away from clearance items.

Well so far me and the OT have decided that in the next week I would keep an hour by hour diary of what I plan to do, verses what I have done,and my moods.

It will be another 5 weeks before I get the cleaning service to come. Hopefully one of them has fantastic organizational skills. If my home was organized like a grocery store with everything having a specific place then I think I could keep it up. We will see

Deadflow3r said:

OK, I had my third appointment with my Occupational therapist yesterday and my third appointment with my nurse today and saw my social worker on Wednesday. None of these people actually clean and I can only imagine what all of this is costing insurance wise.

While the occupatiional therapist was there, she is an expert on hoarders, another hoarder who she was suppose to see after me called and wanted to cancel. The woman, we will call her Daisy, is so ashamed of her hoarding that she won't let help in.

I asked my Occupational therapist if we could work towards getting a support group together so that people like Daisy who were mortified to let "normal" people know their thoughts and life could get help from folks like herself who she didn't have to be embarassed in front of.

I am bad, but I don't collect garbage and I am more of a clutterer than a hoarder. I have magazines but they are all less than 2 years old, most less than a year. I just can not organize for shit. Also sales always get me because, like alot of these people, I was once homeless. I tend to think "I will never be able to get it at this price again!" I hate to shop because I have to PULL myself away from clearance items.

Well so far me and the OT have decided that in the next week I would keep an hour by hour diary of what I plan to do, verses what I have done,and my moods.

It will be another 5 weeks before I get the cleaning service to come. Hopefully one of them has fantastic organizational skills. If my home was organized like a grocery store with everything having a specific place then I think I could keep it up. We will see