SUPRMAN said:

RebirthOfCool said:

OR - The players can have his power tempered via the new CBA. Haven't you been paying attention to ANYTHING I've written about this?

Yes I have.

But if the any player doesn't want to submit to discipline in the NFL or any other league, they aren't obligated to.

They can walk away. That is an option if they don't want to submit to discipline.

Yes, they can seek changes to the CBA I'm just pointing out that changing the CBA is not the only way this has to be dealt with.

What's wrong with someone dissatisfied leaving?

Look for this to be an issue in the upcoming CBA.

Nothing regarding the disciplining of players is going to change with the next CBA. Quote me.

Cerebus said:

Nothing regarding the disciplining of players is going to change with the next CBA. Quote me.

Maybe, maybe not. But make no camping trip mistake about it, it WILL be an issue .

RebirthOfCool said:

Cerebus said:

Nothing regarding the disciplining of players is going to change with the next CBA. Quote me.

Maybe, maybe not. But make no camping trip mistake about it, it WILL be an issue .

Issue 4 sho............

RebirthOfCool said:

Cerebus said:

Nothing regarding the disciplining of players is going to change with the next CBA. Quote me.

Maybe, maybe not. But make no camping trip mistake about it, it WILL be an issue .

I've been following this very closely - it hasn't been an issue. All the issues are about distribution of the owners profits. More money for the lesser paid players (grunts and those who don't play a long time), a fund for older retired players, the structure of a large contracts (max) for longer tenured/star players and a possible long term healthcare plan. They don't care about being disciplined, they just want more money for playing by those rules.

"Make no camping trip mistake about it"

RebirthOfCool said:

SUPRMAN said:

Yes I have.

But if the any player doesn't want to submit to discipline in the NFL or any other league, they aren't obligated to.

They can walk away. That is an option if they don't want to submit to discipline.

Yes, they can seek changes to the CBA I'm just pointing out that changing the CBA is not the only way this has to be dealt with.

What's wrong with someone dissatisfied leaving?

Look for this to be an issue in the upcoming CBA.

Yeah, I can see them giving up six and seven figure checks over Goodell's discipline . . . . .

Cerebus said:

RebirthOfCool said:

Maybe, maybe not. But make no camping trip mistake about it, it WILL be an issue .

I've been following this very closely - it hasn't been an issue. All the issues are about distribution of the owners profits. More money for the lesser paid players (grunts and those who don't play a long time), a fund for older retired players, the structure of a large contracts (max) for longer tenured/star players and a possible long term healthcare plan. They don't care about being disciplined, they just want more money for playing by those rules.

"Make no camping trip mistake about it"

Again, you got inside sources? Apparently not, because if you did, you'd know this was an issue with some players.

SUPRMAN said:

RebirthOfCool said:

Look for this to be an issue in the upcoming CBA.

Yeah, I can see them giving up six and seven figure checks over Goodell's discipline . . . . .

Again, for the 2nd time, I'm not sure what your point is or if there's even a point, but apparently you're not well-versed on the NFL and its practices to properly handle this discussion.

RebirthOfCool said:

Cerebus said:

I've been following this very closely - it hasn't been an issue. All the issues are about distribution of the owners profits. More money for the lesser paid players (grunts and those who don't play a long time), a fund for older retired players, the structure of a large contracts (max) for longer tenured/star players and a possible long term healthcare plan. They don't care about being disciplined, they just want more money for playing by those rules.

"Make no camping trip mistake about it"

Again, you got inside sources? Apparently not, because if you did, you'd know this was an issue with some players.

True it may be an issue for some players but not one they are going to strike over I bet you that.

RebirthOfCool said:

SUPRMAN said:

Yeah, I can see them giving up six and seven figure checks over Goodell's discipline . . . . .

Again, for the 2nd time, I'm not sure what your point is or if there's even a point, but apparently you're not well-versed on the NFL and its practices to properly handle this discussion.

Do you think the NFL players are going to strike because Goodell's power and authority to discipline is not limited?

Why do you think that's something they care enough about to give up six and seven figure game checks?

RebirthOfCool said:

SUPRMAN said:

Yeah, I can see them giving up six and seven figure checks over Goodell's discipline . . . . .

Again, for the 2nd time, I'm not sure what your point is or if there's even a point, but apparently you're not well-versed on the NFL and its practices to properly handle this discussion.

You've given me no reason to believe you know any more than I do.

Knowing a couple of NFL players does not give you a pulse on the league or inside information.

SUPRMAN said:

RebirthOfCool said:

Again, you got inside sources? Apparently not, because if you did, you'd know this was an issue with some players.

True it may be an issue for some players but not one they are going to strike over I bet you that.

Where in the hell did anyone mention a strike? Can you read?

SUPRMAN said:

RebirthOfCool said:

Again, for the 2nd time, I'm not sure what your point is or if there's even a point, but apparently you're not well-versed on the NFL and its practices to properly handle this discussion.

You've given me no reason to believe you know any more than I do.

Knowing a couple of NFL players does not give you a pulse on the league or inside information.

You obviously don't know shit . You just start coming out of left fucking field with shit - "strike"? Really, you shouldn't comment anymore on this.

RebirthOfCool said:

SUPRMAN said:

True it may be an issue for some players but not one they are going to strike over I bet you that.

Where in the hell did anyone mention a strike? Can you read?

That's what will happen if they don't agree on a CBA isn't it?

They aren't going to not approve a CBA because Goodell keeps the authority he presently has is my contention.

RebirthOfCool said:

SUPRMAN said:

You've given me no reason to believe you know any more than I do.

Knowing a couple of NFL players does not give you a pulse on the league or inside information.

You obviously don't know shit . You just start coming out of left fucking field with shit - "strike"? Really, you shouldn't comment anymore on this.

Personal attacks are not an adequate substitute for a intelligent response.

[Edited 8/31/10 7:36am]

RebirthOfCool said:

SUPRMAN said:

You've given me no reason to believe you know any more than I do.

Knowing a couple of NFL players does not give you a pulse on the league or inside information.

You obviously don't know shit . You just start coming out of left fucking field with shit - "strike"? Really, you shouldn't comment anymore on this.

Back atcha.

SUPRMAN said:

RebirthOfCool said:

Where in the hell did anyone mention a strike? Can you read?

That's what will happen if they don't agree on a CBA isn't it?

They aren't going to not approve a CBA because Goodell keeps the authority he presently has is my contention.

Oh ok, so the strike is your angle.

SUPRMAN said:

RebirthOfCool said:

You obviously don't know shit . You just start coming out of left fucking field with shit - "strike"? Really, you shouldn't comment anymore on this.

Personal attacks are not an adequate substitute for a intelligent response.

[Edited 8/31/10 7:36am]

Yeah but it makes for a good read .

RebirthOfCool said:

Cerebus said:

I've been following this very closely - it hasn't been an issue. All the issues are about distribution of the owners profits. More money for the lesser paid players (grunts and those who don't play a long time), a fund for older retired players, the structure of a large contracts (max) for longer tenured/star players and a possible long term healthcare plan. They don't care about being disciplined, they just want more money for playing by those rules.

"Make no camping trip mistake about it"

Again, you got inside sources? Apparently not, because if you did, you'd know this was an issue with some players.

You don't need inside sources - just follow the stories and pieces that have been written and filmed already. HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumble did a huge piece on it (possibly two). Inside The NFL dedicated an entire show to it, with parties from both sides on set explaining their sides of the arguments. E60 has done segments on it more than once. Every major newspaper where an NFL team resides has been doing stories on it since last season, and I've read nearly all of them online. So again, no need for inside sources because I'm quoting facts. I'm sure there are "some players" who don't like Goodell. I'm sure there are some players who don't like their shoes. But neither one of those points has anything to do with them getting a new CBA finalized right now. It's money, plain and simple. Especially now that the owners have come out in favor of an 18 game season. You can bet that's going to make this negotiation even more contentious.

Also, a strike has been a possibility all along. The players don't want it, but they've said they will support it if that's what it comes to. They said that early LAST season.

Seriously, does the amount of time he plays have anything to do with how big he is and how much stress he puts on his bones? Or is it just chance that keeps dealing him a bum hand? I guess if he plays less there's less of a chance of him getting hurt again. But I tend to think he's just so big, so heavy and so atheletic that his body can't take the abuse. At some point he's going to do something that his brain thinks is OK, but his body disagrees. Another injury. In that case I don't think it would make a difference if he played five minutes a game or forty-five.

Rockets take cautious approach to Yao's comeback

Partial article - you can... rest here

It was certainly a welcome sight for Rockets fans last week—Yao Ming, moving confidently, working up a sweat, banging around in one-on-one situations with teammate Chuck Hayes(notes). Last year, Houston put up a valiant effort in trying to slip into the playoffs in the West, but came up just short. But there was a general overall confidence when it came to the Rockets, because this year, Yao was expected to return to the court after missing the entire season because of foot surgery.

Now, doctors have declared Yao’s left foot 100 percent healed, and he has been cleared to work his way up to 5-on-5 practices. Expect to see Yao suiting up for training camp, and expect to see him on the floor for Houston’s opening night game on October 26 against the Lakers. But just how much of Yao we’ll be seeing, at least in the season’s early going, remains a mystery. He has averaged 32.7 minutes per game over the course of his career, but probably isn’t going to approach that kind of court time this year.

Cerebus said:

RebirthOfCool said:

Again, you got inside sources? Apparently not, because if you did, you'd know this was an issue with some players.

You don't need inside sources - just follow the stories and pieces that have been written and filmed already. HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumble did a huge piece on it (possibly two). Inside The NFL dedicated an entire show to it, with parties from both sides on set explaining their sides of the arguments. E60 has done segments on it more than once. Every major newspaper where an NFL team resides has been doing stories on it since last season, and I've read nearly all of them online. So again, no need for inside sources because I'm quoting facts. I'm sure there are "some players" who don't like Goodell. I'm sure there are some players who don't like their shoes. But neither one of those points has anything to do with them getting a new CBA finalized right now. It's money, plain and simple. Especially now that the owners have come out in favor of an 18 game season. You can bet that's going to make this negotiation even more contentious.

Also, a strike has been a possibility all along. The players don't want it, but they've said they will support it if that's what it comes to. They said that early LAST season.

Good luck in thinking that then playa . In the meantime, I get my info from the horse's mouth while you can keep working the OTHER end of the horse.

Cerebus said:

Seriously, does the amount of time he plays have anything to do with how big he is and how much stress he puts on his bones? Or is it just chance that keeps dealing him a bum hand? I guess if he plays less there's less of a chance of him getting hurt again. But I tend to think he's just so big, so heavy and so atheletic that his body can't take the abuse. At some point he's going to do something that his brain thinks is OK, but his body disagrees. Another injury. In that case I don't think it would make a difference if he played five minutes a game or forty-five.

Rockets take cautious approach to Yao's comeback

Partial article - you can... rest here

It was certainly a welcome sight for Rockets fans last week—Yao Ming, moving confidently, working up a sweat, banging around in one-on-one situations with teammate Chuck Hayes(notes). Last year, Houston put up a valiant effort in trying to slip into the playoffs in the West, but came up just short. But there was a general overall confidence when it came to the Rockets, because this year, Yao was expected to return to the court after missing the entire season because of foot surgery.

Now, doctors have declared Yao’s left foot 100 percent healed, and he has been cleared to work his way up to 5-on-5 practices. Expect to see Yao suiting up for training camp, and expect to see him on the floor for Houston’s opening night game on October 26 against the Lakers. But just how much of Yao we’ll be seeing, at least in the season’s early going, remains a mystery. He has averaged 32.7 minutes per game over the course of his career, but probably isn’t going to approach that kind of court time this year.

I hope Yao can come back but I think he may just be 2 big 4 hoops and the stress it puts on his frame and body type.

RebirthOfCool said:

Good luck in thinking that then playa . In the meantime, I get my info from the horse's mouth while you can keep working the OTHER end of the horse.

OK dude. Whaaaatever. You keep thinking what you WANT to be true. It seems to be working for you on quite a few threads. I, on the other hand, actually know.

Graycap23 said:

Cerebus said:

Seriously, does the amount of time he plays have anything to do with how big he is and how much stress he puts on his bones? Or is it just chance that keeps dealing him a bum hand? I guess if he plays less there's less of a chance of him getting hurt again. But I tend to think he's just so big, so heavy and so atheletic that his body can't take the abuse. At some point he's going to do something that his brain thinks is OK, but his body disagrees. Another injury. In that case I don't think it would make a difference if he played five minutes a game or forty-five.

Rockets take cautious approach to Yao's comeback

Partial article - you can... rest here

It was certainly a welcome sight for Rockets fans last week—Yao Ming, moving confidently, working up a sweat, banging around in one-on-one situations with teammate Chuck Hayes(notes). Last year, Houston put up a valiant effort in trying to slip into the playoffs in the West, but came up just short. But there was a general overall confidence when it came to the Rockets, because this year, Yao was expected to return to the court after missing the entire season because of foot surgery.

Now, doctors have declared Yao’s left foot 100 percent healed, and he has been cleared to work his way up to 5-on-5 practices. Expect to see Yao suiting up for training camp, and expect to see him on the floor for Houston’s opening night game on October 26 against the Lakers. But just how much of Yao we’ll be seeing, at least in the season’s early going, remains a mystery. He has averaged 32.7 minutes per game over the course of his career, but probably isn’t going to approach that kind of court time this year.

I hope Yao can come back but I think he may just be 2 big 4 hoops and the stress it puts on his frame and body type.

For the ability he has - yeah, I agree. I think Oden may be heading down the same path. Too much talent for the size of their frames. The evolution of the human body hasn't caught up with the evolution of what the brain has convinced them they can do. On the other hand, this kind of thing has happened to a few big men in the past, too. So it could just be a continuation of the same problems. It just seemed like training and medical science had "fixed" a lot of these issues. Haven't seem them reocurring like this in a while. Read an article about Oden having a larger role next year and was like, "ummm, really?" I just think dude is going to break again.

Cerebus said:

Graycap23 said:

I hope Yao can come back but I think he may just be 2 big 4 hoops and the stress it puts on his frame and body type.

For the ability he has - yeah, I agree. I think Oden may be heading down the same path. Too much talent for the size of their frames. The evolution of the human body hasn't caught up with the evolution of what the brain has convinced them they can do. On the other hand, this kind of thing has happened to a few big men in the past, too. So it could just be a continuation of the same problems. It just seemed like training and medical science had "fixed" a lot of these issues. Haven't seem them reocurring like this in a while. Read an article about Oden having a larger role next year and was like, "ummm, really?" I just think dude is going to break again.

Bet on it............I wish it weren't true but reality is a b****.

Cerebus said:

RebirthOfCool said:

Good luck in thinking that then playa . In the meantime, I get my info from the horse's mouth while you can keep working the OTHER end of the horse.

OK dude. Whaaaatever. You keep thinking what you WANT to be true. It seems to be working for you on quite a few threads. I, on the other hand, actually know.

Riiiight, just like your "camping trip" 4 miles deep into the Earth .

Cerebus said:

Graycap23 said:

I hope Yao can come back but I think he may just be 2 big 4 hoops and the stress it puts on his frame and body type.

For the ability he has - yeah, I agree. I think Oden may be heading down the same path. Too much talent for the size of their frames. The evolution of the human body hasn't caught up with the evolution of what the brain has convinced them they can do. On the other hand, this kind of thing has happened to a few big men in the past, too. So it could just be a continuation of the same problems. It just seemed like training and medical science had "fixed" a lot of these issues. Haven't seem them reocurring like this in a while. Read an article about Oden having a larger role next year and was like, "ummm, really?" I just think dude is going to break again.

It's not about "evolution of man" because that would insinuate that eventually all people will be 6'5+ in the future, and that's just not the case. No, what this is about people of a particular height not physically cut out for certain stresses on the body. It's unnatural for a man of 6'8+ to be running and jumping and collidong with other bodies of any size, and some as big or bigger. These dudes that are that tall are freaks of nature and yet they are asked to perform on bodies that aren't cut out to do that sort of thing. Most big men experience leg/knee/foot issues during their careers because it's just not natural to be that physical on bodies like that.

Celtics signed Delonte West. Oh, baby!

uPtoWnNY said:

Celtics signed Delonte West. Oh, baby!

He's back where he started. I wish the Lakers had signed him.

RebirthOfCool said:

Cerebus said:

For the ability he has - yeah, I agree. I think Oden may be heading down the same path. Too much talent for the size of their frames. The evolution of the human body hasn't caught up with the evolution of what the brain has convinced them they can do. On the other hand, this kind of thing has happened to a few big men in the past, too. So it could just be a continuation of the same problems. It just seemed like training and medical science had "fixed" a lot of these issues. Haven't seem them reocurring like this in a while. Read an article about Oden having a larger role next year and was like, "ummm, really?" I just think dude is going to break again.

It's not about "evolution of man" because that would insinuate that eventually all people will be 6'5+ in the future, and that's just not the case. No, what this is about people of a particular height not physically cut out for certain stresses on the body. It's unnatural for a man of 6'8+ to be running and jumping and collidong with other bodies of any size, and some as big or bigger. These dudes that are that tall are freaks of nature and yet they are asked to perform on bodies that aren't cut out to do that sort of thing. Most big men experience leg/knee/foot issues during their careers because it's just not natural to be that physical on bodies like that.

It insinuates no such thing. That's makes as much sense as everyone is going to be Indian one day because India has the largest population on the planet and at projected growth rates . . .

People are not all moving to the same point on the spectrum, after over 10,000 years of recorded history, this is a far as evolution has gotten us.