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Reply #120 posted 09/08/10 12:01am

meow85

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JustErin said:

meow85 said:

So, so many things come into play.

Shitty economy and high unemployment. There's hardly any jobs so no matter how qualified you are there's no guarantee you'll be hired because you've often got to fight against literally hundreds of other candidates. This province has the highest cost of living in Canada and the lowest minimum wage, and my city is actually rated as the least affordable in the world.

Everyone I know who is lucky enough to work -including now, thankfully, me -is working well below their skill and education level. The folks in trades are doing better overall, but even there jobs with good pay are in short supply.

I have 6 friends that have moved to BC (Vancouver and area) and they had no issues finding a good job right away, and are all doing very, very well. It's weird to hear all this talk about no jobs, or jobs under one's skill level.

Since those I know have been so successful out there, it's one of the cities I am considering moving to when I am finished school.

What do they do? Because the people I know cover a pretty wide range of careers and nearly everyone's un- or underemployed. Maybe your friends were lucky, but jobs here are scarce. Even crap jobs that anyone should be able to just walk into are being fought over.

"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #121 posted 09/08/10 12:13am

JustErin

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meow85 said:

JustErin said:

I have 6 friends that have moved to BC (Vancouver and area) and they had no issues finding a good job right away, and are all doing very, very well. It's weird to hear all this talk about no jobs, or jobs under one's skill level.

Since those I know have been so successful out there, it's one of the cities I am considering moving to when I am finished school.

What do they do? Because the people I know cover a pretty wide range of careers and nearly everyone's un- or underemployed. Maybe your friends were lucky, but jobs here are scarce. Even crap jobs that anyone should be able to just walk into are being fought over.

Kind of across the board. A couple are single with no dependents, one is single with a child, and the others are married with children. Maybe they were lucky...I dunno. I just know they are all doing well and loving it out there. Sure, it's expensive but they all think it's worth it and have no plans to leave.

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Reply #122 posted 09/08/10 4:47am

retina

meow85 said:

my city is actually rated as the least affordable in the world.

You're talking about Vancouver, right? I'm sorry, but I can't see how that can be true. I lived there for two years and the only thing I found a bit expensive compared to what I was used to from Stockholm was the rent. Everything else was either a bit cheaper or a lot cheaper. A bit cheaper: hydro, insurance, bus and train fare, CDs and DVDs, store bought food etc. A lot cheaper: going to a restaurant, gasoline, cars, clothes, second hand goods, entrance fees and tickets etc.

And if you compare the price level to, say, London or Tokyo or Zurich, there's a world of difference. I'd say almost all average Vancouverites would really struggle to survive in those cities.

I do understand that Vancouver feels crazy expensive to a Canadian though. It's a far cry from the price levels of more mid sized cities.

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Reply #123 posted 09/08/10 4:47am

StillGotIt

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re: skinmechanics post "How about getting a little colour into that world view of yours?"....please elaborate. I'm not totally certain about what you are trying to get at.

For job interviews, there are MANY ways to deal with the appearance issue. I need not outline it in detail...but it can go from borrowing items for interviews to buying items secondhand, or participating in programs that offer back to work clothing. One need not spend a fortune to look good. I dont care what race, hair is hair. I've hired people with natural hair styles, and I've passed over people with hairweaves. People just shouldn't go in looking like a bird lives in their head. And then there are those who just dont know any better and show up at interviews with visible tattoos and facial piercings.....its like...are you serious?

Many people should just learn to live within or preferbly below their means. Too many people dont. Everyone knows there will be times when the economy goes down....that is what savings are for--to provide a cushion. I was taught to always have about 2 years worth of basic living expenses saved up so that our family would be okay. So many people I know NEVER saved, not when we were younger and not now.

These non savers are often trendy, and when times are good make comments such as "when are you going to upgrade your vehicle." But those same people will call me looking for money or need a ride somewhere because their car got repossessed. My car has been around for a while, but I have no car payments, low insurance premiums, it's well maintained and it's paid for.

Folks dont want to talk about it, but many people dug their hole long before the economy tanked by not being wise with what they already had.

Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
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Reply #124 posted 09/08/10 4:57am

retina

meow85 said:

JustErin said:

I have 6 friends that have moved to BC (Vancouver and area) and they had no issues finding a good job right away, and are all doing very, very well. It's weird to hear all this talk about no jobs, or jobs under one's skill level.

Since those I know have been so successful out there, it's one of the cities I am considering moving to when I am finished school.

What do they do? Because the people I know cover a pretty wide range of careers and nearly everyone's un- or underemployed. Maybe your friends were lucky, but jobs here are scarce. Even crap jobs that anyone should be able to just walk into are being fought over.

I applied for at least one "crap job" there (checking tickets at a cinema) and got it quite easily (although I never started it because of work permit snags). I was also accepted at a position as a photographer (but even that one didn't work out due to work permit rejection, even though I have lots of experience in the area). I also saw "help wanted" signs posted in stores every now and then which is unheard of in Stockholm.

I'm not drawing any big conclusions of any of that though. I could well have just been lucky. But what I did appreciate was that I was at least called to an interview every single time I applied for something, even if my CV wasn't a great match for the job. That way I got a chance to speak for myself and that makes a huge difference. In Sweden it's very very hard to get called to an interview. They usually only pick out four or five applications that they think look interesting and discard the rest, which is silly since some people are crap at writing applications but would excel at the job.

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Reply #125 posted 09/08/10 7:53am

Deadflow3r

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meow85 said:

StillGotIt said:

Seriously...we Americans of today for the most part have NO IDEA what real poverty is. There are still some places in our country where there is real poverty, but most on this thread IMO just dont know.

If you were on welfare, that is not real poverty because you are not without basic needs. There are people who have no toilets, no windows, no doors, who eat mud to fill their stomachs. If they eat once a day they are lucky. There are no options, no medical care and basic education is a far fetched fantasy. You work to eat, not to buy shit.

Now...if we are talking poor by the Western standard, since I could only afford one luxury vacation this year, I consider myself to be broke as hell. biggrin

[Edited 9/3/10 16:38pm]

I can't always feed myself. I've gone days at a time with no food, and it's not because I'm anorexic. I've been dangerously close to homelessness. I regularly go way into overdraft on my bank account as a matter of necessity. My grand total worth of possessions is not even enough to bother insuring. I can not buy anything new. I have no car. I can't even afford a bike.

I work two jobs, have no dependents, am young and able bodied and I can't really afford my own basic necessities. With ten years of work experience and a college education, this is the reality for young people in this city in 2010. I'm not alone, either. Most of my friends are on EI or mooching off their parents due to lack of options.

I agree that many people who think of themselves as poor are just broke and that there is a difference. But there are also a lot of people -some of them right here in this thread -who really are poor. The roommate and I bought a carton of real milk last week. We had to collect change to do it....

The food issue is another pissed for me.

The # on killer of women in this country is not breast cancer or even cancer. It is heart failure.

What contributes to that and the rising # of people with type 2 diabetes?

It is high sodium levels (found in canned and prepackaged foods) also the type of fats found in certain food contribute to that and white bread, pasta and rice are great for driving your insulin levels batty.

So what do we give our poor people at food banks and what can they afford with their measley food stamps? Why these very foods.

To me when you feed people white pasta and white rice and the bag shows that there is no fiber content or vitamin or mineral content you are basically feeding people edible rocks. Only I think the rocks might be better.

Some of the poorest people in the nation are Native Americans, and they along with other poor people are fighting obesity and type 2 diabetes that is like an epidemic for them.

I weigh 234 lbs right now and have come to the conclusion that it is better for me to eat very little, less that 1000 calories, then eat ANY crappy foods.

Crappy, high sugar/corn syrup foods also play with your moods. When you are already a bit down you don't need that rush and then crash either.

Why do we hear so much more about breast cancer? Could it be the sale of all that pink paraphenalia and therefore $$$ for corporations?

Could it be that the makers of all that nasty ass food that is killing our poor and making their kids nearly unteachable (yes Omega 5 fats slow down your ability to learn) are made by the same large companies that give big $$$$$ to our candidates come election time?

Is that why they get to strip the rain forests and plant corn?????

I don't want free health insurance for everyone; I want a chance at having a healthy life and a high quality of life for everyone. Health insurance is great, sure, but what about massive amounts of prevention?

There came a time when the risk of remaining tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. Anais Nin.
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Reply #126 posted 09/08/10 8:28am

StillGotIt

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Deadflow3r said:

meow85 said:

I can't always feed myself. I've gone days at a time with no food, and it's not because I'm anorexic. I've been dangerously close to homelessness. I regularly go way into overdraft on my bank account as a matter of necessity. My grand total worth of possessions is not even enough to bother insuring. I can not buy anything new. I have no car. I can't even afford a bike.

I work two jobs, have no dependents, am young and able bodied and I can't really afford my own basic necessities. With ten years of work experience and a college education, this is the reality for young people in this city in 2010. I'm not alone, either. Most of my friends are on EI or mooching off their parents due to lack of options.

I agree that many people who think of themselves as poor are just broke and that there is a difference. But there are also a lot of people -some of them right here in this thread -who really are poor. The roommate and I bought a carton of real milk last week. We had to collect change to do it....

The food issue is another pissed for me.

The # on killer of women in this country is not breast cancer or even cancer. It is heart failure.

What contributes to that and the rising # of people with type 2 diabetes?

It is high sodium levels (found in canned and prepackaged foods) also the type of fats found in certain food contribute to that and white bread, pasta and rice are great for driving your insulin levels batty.

So what do we give our poor people at food banks and what can they afford with their measley food stamps? Why these very foods.

To me when you feed people white pasta and white rice and the bag shows that there is no fiber content or vitamin or mineral content you are basically feeding people edible rocks. Only I think the rocks might be better.

Some of the poorest people in the nation are Native Americans, and they along with other poor people are fighting obesity and type 2 diabetes that is like an epidemic for them.

I weigh 234 lbs right now and have come to the conclusion that it is better for me to eat very little, less that 1000 calories, then eat ANY crappy foods.

Crappy, high sugar/corn syrup foods also play with your moods. When you are already a bit down you don't need that rush and then crash either.

Why do we hear so much more about breast cancer? Could it be the sale of all that pink paraphenalia and therefore $$$ for corporations?

Could it be that the makers of all that nasty ass food that is killing our poor and making their kids nearly unteachable (yes Omega 5 fats slow down your ability to learn) are made by the same large companies that give big $$$$$ to our candidates come election time?

Is that why they get to strip the rain forests and plant corn?????

I don't want free health insurance for everyone; I want a chance at having a healthy life and a high quality of life for everyone. Health insurance is great, sure, but what about massive amounts of prevention?

Love the post....this is a VERY SERIOUS problem. The quality of the food

Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
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Reply #127 posted 09/08/10 11:50am

meow85

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retina said:

meow85 said:

my city is actually rated as the least affordable in the world.

You're talking about Vancouver, right? I'm sorry, but I can't see how that can be true. I lived there for two years and the only thing I found a bit expensive compared to what I was used to from Stockholm was the rent. Everything else was either a bit cheaper or a lot cheaper. A bit cheaper: hydro, insurance, bus and train fare, CDs and DVDs, store bought food etc. A lot cheaper: going to a restaurant, gasoline, cars, clothes, second hand goods, entrance fees and tickets etc.

And if you compare the price level to, say, London or Tokyo or Zurich, there's a world of difference. I'd say almost all average Vancouverites would really struggle to survive in those cities.

I do understand that Vancouver feels crazy expensive to a Canadian though. It's a far cry from the price levels of more mid sized cities.

The stats came from measuring median income -which is not particularly high -against cost of living, which is. The biggest employer in Vancouver is hospitality and service, neither of which pay what they're worth, and the cost of owning or renting is astronomically high. You ever try to pay for a $1000 a month bachelor suite on eight dollars an hour?

Vancouver doesn't just "feel" expensive. It is expensive. Food is expensive. Rent is expensive. Transit is expensive. Anything else you mentioned is entertainment, not cost of living. Entertainment is a luxury many people in Vancouver can not afford.

"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #128 posted 09/08/10 11:54am

meow85

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retina said:

meow85 said:

What do they do? Because the people I know cover a pretty wide range of careers and nearly everyone's un- or underemployed. Maybe your friends were lucky, but jobs here are scarce. Even crap jobs that anyone should be able to just walk into are being fought over.

I applied for at least one "crap job" there (checking tickets at a cinema) and got it quite easily (although I never started it because of work permit snags). I was also accepted at a position as a photographer (but even that one didn't work out due to work permit rejection, even though I have lots of experience in the area). I also saw "help wanted" signs posted in stores every now and then which is unheard of in Stockholm.

I'm not drawing any big conclusions of any of that though. I could well have just been lucky. But what I did appreciate was that I was at least called to an interview every single time I applied for something, even if my CV wasn't a great match for the job. That way I got a chance to speak for myself and that makes a huge difference. In Sweden it's very very hard to get called to an interview. They usually only pick out four or five applications that they think look interesting and discard the rest, which is silly since some people are crap at writing applications but would excel at the job.

There was a time when what you described happened. Even just 4 or 5 years ago you could pretty much walk into any job anywhere in the province.

But not now. Then is not now, and unless you happen to be living in Vancouver in 2010, I suggest you shhh on the topic.

We're in a situation right now where even burger flipping jobs are being fought over by applicants, and even if you're "lucky" enough to be hired you won't be paid much and will probably only be allowed part-time, because there are simply more bodies than there is work.

"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #129 posted 09/08/10 12:00pm

meow85

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You know, retina, I don't much appreciate someone who doesn't live here and is clearly not and may have never been in a similar situation undermining what I say. You came here on a work visa before and it worked out? Good for you. I live in Vancouver in the here and now.

"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #130 posted 09/08/10 12:44pm

retina

meow85 said:

You know, retina, I don't much appreciate someone who doesn't live here and is clearly not and may have never been in a similar situation undermining what I say. You came here on a work visa before and it worked out? Good for you. I live in Vancouver in the here and now.

You know, meow85, I don't much appreciate your know-it-all attitude. I'm speaking from my own personal experience and that's no less valid than your own personal experience. And you have no clue what I may or may not have experienced in terms of living conditions in the past, so I suggest you get off your high horses in regards to that as well.

Do re-read what I wrote in my first response because if you truly understood it, you wouldn't have any reason to take issue with it. You were talking about the world's least affordable city, and that's what I addressed. Vancouver is simply not the world's least affordable city and that's a fact. If you want to mix in parameters like median income things may (or may not, I don't have any reliable numbers for that in front of me) look different, but that's not what you or I were initially talking about. I was responding to your claim, no more and no less.

As for the here and the now of the work market I have plenty of friends in Vancouver and they're not having any more problems getting work today than they did four or five years ago. So I think you should ask yourself if maybe it's just you and/or your circle of friends that are less marketable than most people, for whatever reason? The possibility of that is just as big as the possibility that it's me and my friends that are misjudging the situation.

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Reply #131 posted 09/08/10 12:53pm

Number23

purse

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Reply #132 posted 09/08/10 1:29pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

sad what's happening here?

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Reply #133 posted 09/08/10 1:32pm

Rightly

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meow85 said:

StillGotIt said:

Seriously...we Americans of today for the most part have NO IDEA what real poverty is. There are still some places in our country where there is real poverty, but most on this thread IMO just dont know.

If you were on welfare, that is not real poverty because you are not without basic needs. There are people who have no toilets, no windows, no doors, who eat mud to fill their stomachs. If they eat once a day they are lucky. There are no options, no medical care and basic education is a far fetched fantasy. You work to eat, not to buy shit.

Now...if we are talking poor by the Western standard, since I could only afford one luxury vacation this year, I consider myself to be broke as hell. biggrin

[Edited 9/3/10 16:38pm]

I can't always feed myself. I've gone days at a time with no food, and it's not because I'm anorexic. I've been dangerously close to homelessness. I regularly go way into overdraft on my bank account as a matter of necessity. My grand total worth of possessions is not even enough to bother insuring. I can not buy anything new. I have no car. I can't even afford a bike.

I work two jobs, have no dependents, am young and able bodied and I can't really afford my own basic necessities. With ten years of work experience and a college education, this is the reality for young people in this city in 2010. I'm not alone, either. Most of my friends are on EI or mooching off their parents due to lack of options.

I agree that many people who think of themselves as poor are just broke and that there is a difference. But there are also a lot of people -some of them right here in this thread -who really are poor. The roommate and I bought a carton of real milk last week. We had to collect change to do it....

this last description could more or less be applied to my situation., except that I am alone. Only 2 of my old friends stuck by me when I originally fell from grace. Words can't express the level of disappointment I felt when what i thought were close friends discreetly turned their backs on me. I can't imagine that they were afraid I'd have asked them for a loan, for they know, and knew then, how proud I am and was.
I don't think I'll ever regain the trust I once had in people. I worry about that sometimes. If I ever get into calm waters again, they'll be unmapped, I don't want to become bitter or completely hardened.

small circles, big wheels!
I've got a pretty firm grip on the obvious!
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Reply #134 posted 09/08/10 2:27pm

StillGotIt

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meow85 said:

StillGotIt said:

Okay...I hear what you guys are saying....and perhaps my definition of poverty is a bit extreme. And I also know that my perception has changed over time.

I think it is because I fell into the category of "poverty" by local standards at one point in my life, and I sometimes complained. And then I traveled to different countries....and the things that I saw changed me, and stuck with me. I guess that a part of me doesn't measure poverty only by what you have, but also I consider one's potential to change their situation.

The majority of people in the Western world have the power/potential to change their situation...because of that, I view western poverty differently. Also, people make choices to be poor--and I don't consider that poverty either.

Determination to succeed in the western world holds a lot of weight, so in some way, one's mentality often greatly contributes to the state of their assets. (The economy right now is making this less true than usual.... but then I also consider an old story I've heard about an ant and a grasshopper.....)

Everybody has ups and downs, but in the western world, especially when I am walking with my children and an able bodied person asks me for change.....I consider that laziness, not poverty.

You don't know that able-bodied person asking for change doesn't already have a job. Or two. Or a child to support.

A lot of panhandlers, matter of fact, are employed, often with multiple jobs. They may actually work more than full-time hours and still come up short for rent or groceries.

Laziness, eh? Try asking before assuming.

if somebody sees me with children and dares to ask me for anything, I am allowed to assume whatever I want. An able bodied person has no business begging a mother with children. That is total BS, shameful and truly selfish. It is obvious that I already have somebody I am taking care of...the children with me.

Get a job. and if the beggar already has one, get another...and if they still need more money, just work smarter (instead of harder) and get a BETTER job. I know plenty of people who have had need to work 3 jobs....I myself once had 3 to stabilize my lifestyle. People need to just stop being lazy and thinking the world owes them something. I work for my money and I am not giving it away to random street urchins.

Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
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Reply #135 posted 09/08/10 2:48pm

PunkMistress

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StillGotIt said:

meow85 said:

You don't know that able-bodied person asking for change doesn't already have a job. Or two. Or a child to support.

A lot of panhandlers, matter of fact, are employed, often with multiple jobs. They may actually work more than full-time hours and still come up short for rent or groceries.

Laziness, eh? Try asking before assuming.

if somebody sees me with children and dares to ask me for anything, I am allowed to assume whatever I want. An able bodied person has no business begging a mother with children. That is total BS, shameful and truly selfish. It is obvious that I already have somebody I am taking care of...the children with me.

Get a job. and if the beggar already has one, get another...and if they still need more money, just work smarter (instead of harder) and get a BETTER job. I know plenty of people who have had need to work 3 jobs....I myself once had 3 to stabilize my lifestyle. People need to just stop being lazy and thinking the world owes them something. I work for my money and I am not giving it away to random street urchins.

It annoyed the shit out of me when panhandlers would get up in my face when I was walking with my two little girls. I used to say to them, "Do you see I have children to feed? Get out of my face, please." Of course, this was reserved for the ones who were totally rude and had no sense of personal space.

It's what you make it.
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Reply #136 posted 09/08/10 11:31pm

novabrkr

DesireeNevermind said:

sad what's happening here?

Co-sign.

The people asking for money on the streets has very little to do with the type of unemployment problems many countries are facing with at the moment. The people asking for money on the streets have always existed. They've always existed here too, even if we have a fairly well-working welfare system (i.e. every citizen is entitled to get the basic needs covered and maybe even a little bit extra). When someone asks for change it usually goes for alcohol or drugs.

That's an entirely different type of a phenomenon than the problems resulting from part-time jobs having become the norm, sudden disability, your own business going belly up or not simply having enough money to take care of the needs of your kids. According to my own observations, the situation in North America is especially tough right now, because the US hadn't gotten prepared for it at all. The entire system has been built on the supposition that getting jobs is fairly easy and you can get them whenever you want.

[Edited 9/9/10 11:41am]

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Reply #137 posted 09/09/10 10:41am

Bainne

retina said:

meow85 said:

You know, retina, I don't much appreciate someone who doesn't live here and is clearly not and may have never been in a similar situation undermining what I say. You came here on a work visa before and it worked out? Good for you. I live in Vancouver in the here and now.

You know, meow85, I don't much appreciate your know-it-all attitude. I'm speaking from my own personal experience and that's no less valid than your own personal experience. And you have no clue what I may or may not have experienced in terms of living conditions in the past, so I suggest you get off your high horses in regards to that as well.

Do re-read what I wrote in my first response because if you truly understood it, you wouldn't have any reason to take issue with it. You were talking about the world's least affordable city, and that's what I addressed. Vancouver is simply not the world's least affordable city and that's a fact. If you want to mix in parameters like median income things may (or may not, I don't have any reliable numbers for that in front of me) look different, but that's not what you or I were initially talking about. I was responding to your claim, no more and no less.

As for the here and the now of the work market I have plenty of friends in Vancouver and they're not having any more problems getting work today than they did four or five years ago. So I think you should ask yourself if maybe it's just you and/or your circle of friends that are less marketable than most people, for whatever reason? The possibility of that is just as big as the possibility that it's me and my friends that are misjudging the situation.

You always seem to rub people up the wrong way in this forum! comfort

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Reply #138 posted 09/09/10 2:49pm

Bainne

Number23 said:

purse

Dry English wit, I love it.

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Reply #139 posted 09/09/10 3:01pm

Number23

Bainne said:



Number23 said:


purse



Dry English wit, I love it.


mad
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Reply #140 posted 09/09/10 5:31pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

novabrkr said:

DesireeNevermind said:

sad what's happening here?

Co-sign.

The people asking for money on the streets has very little to do with the type of unemployment problems many countries are facing with at the moment. The people asking for money on the streets have always existed. They've always existed here too, even if we have a fairly well-working welfare system (i.e. every citizen is entitled to get the basic needs covered and maybe even a little bit extra). When someone asks for change it usually goes for alcohol or drugs.

That's an entirely different type of a phenomenon than the problems resulting from part-time jobs having become the norm, sudden disability, your own business going belly up or not simply having enough money to take care of the needs of your kids. According to my own observations, the situation in North America is especially tough right now, because the US hadn't gotten prepared for it at all. The entire system has been built on the supposition that getting jobs is fairly easy and you can get them whenever you want.

[Edited 9/9/10 11:41am]

What's that saying? Many people are one paycheck away from homelessness or something like that.

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Reply #141 posted 09/09/10 11:08pm

novabrkr

It probably means that I can't even fully grasp the ruthlessness of the US system as a European. A situation where you're either employed or you're homeless is just rare over here. I don't think that's the case even in the poorest countries of EU. Getting unemployment benefits or welfare won't certainly make you rich either, but you're not going to end up on the streets just because the company you worked for did some bad decisions and went out of business. That might change of course, I can't see into the future.

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Reply #142 posted 10/22/10 7:30am

booty

'

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