dseann said:

Mach said:

Isn't she too fair skinned to pull off Cleopatra

She's also too pretty. The historical Cleopatra had one of the most beautiful ... minds of her time, but not physical beauty. The coins minted at the time of her reign show her to have a nose the size of Tucan Sam's.

That's why I think Maya Rudolph should play her. Maya got that pelican bay nose.

DesireeNevermind said:

dseann said:

She's also too pretty. The historical Cleopatra had one of the most beautiful ... minds of her time, but not physical beauty. The coins minted at the time of her reign show her to have a nose the size of Tucan Sam's.

That's why I think Maya Rudolph should play her. Maya got that pelican bay nose.

Agreed! I posted before realizing someone threw the coins out there for the org to see.

Reel said:

missmad said:

I'll just keep my mouth closed on that one, lest I offend the entire forum. But....if you listen to Mommar khadafi, he is not like the leaders of the countries that you mentioned. Also, technically there is no such thing as "The Middle East" all of that was AFRICA until they built the Suez Canal thus taking the name of the so called middle eastern region completely out of Africa.

Here's what i will say without getting myself all riled up. Greeks and other Non Blacks came to AFRICA to study. One of the first UNIVERSITIES was in Sub Saharan Africa. That University was in what they called Timbuktu also known as present day Mali. The present blacks that were bought here on Slave Ships were from the West African Countries then known as Mali, Ghana, and Sonyah.

History was stolen, Libraries were burned, because while people in North African and Sub Saharan Africa were so advanced in just about ever domain known to mankind. Thier NORTHERN counterparts weren't doing very much with their time. But building circular blocks that served absolutely no purpose. So instead of looking stupid, they looted resources of the land, chissled off noses of the spinx, and other Egyptian artifacts, and somehow convinced lighter skinned Africans to not identify with their darker-complexioned brothers and sisters. The entire thing sickens me. if you ever want to strike a sore spot with me, just talk about this subject. Sorry for writting a freekin book on War and Peace. Just remember History is exactly that HIS STORY! He who wins the wars REWRITES HIS Story.

Absolute shit.

And that's all I want to say about that.

DesireeNevermind said:

JustErin said:

Why not go by what she looked like on the coins?

Yikes.

those are some mighty pretty and detailed looking coins. Most of them look like crap and are quite rusted. But.....using this depiciton...certainly the most appropriate person to play Cleo would be none other than:

[img:$uid]http://www.topnews.in/files/images/MayaRudolph2.jpg[/img:$uid]

We agree. I posted Maya's pic on page 4. When I looked at the 3-D rendering I immediately thought of her.

Two points. I won't bother reading this entire thread i gleaned from two pages what is going on

1.) Anicent people didn't have the same concept of race as we do today. The Ancient Egyptians in their art depicted themselves differently from all other Nationalities. They weren't as dark as the Kingdom of Kush and they darker than other Mediterrian peoples. Most people agree that possibly thru the 3 dynasty Egypt was mostly of "African Hertiage" after that the nation and ruling classes were multiracial but all of an Egyptian Identiy

2.) The Ptolomiec Dynasty was the last Pharoinc Dynasty. founded by Alexnader II, of Macedonia, more commonly known as Alexander the Great. (Agelina played his mother in the movie Alexander) After his death Ptolomy I Sator I, one of his Macedonian Generals became ruler of Egypt in 326BCE and Pharoh in 304BCE. At this point in time Egypt was ruled by a Greek Elite that intermarried each other, spoke Greek and practiced the Greek religion. Cleopatra VII was the last ruler of the Ptolomy family and the first to spek Egyptian or practice the Egyptian religion. She was manily of Macedonian/Greek decent and there has been some recent speculation that Cleopatra had a grandmother of some African decent due to the findings of remains believed to be that of her sister. But it still widely debated if the said remains are related to Cleopatra or not

The high degree of inbreeding amongst the Ptolemies can be seen from the ancestry of Cleopatra VII. As the graph below shows, she only had four great-grandparents and six (out of a possible 16) great-great-grandparents (furthermore, four of those six were descended from the other two).

Ptolomy VII and Cleopatra III were her great grandparents and mother and father to 3 of her 4 grandparents, they were also her great great grandparents by being the mother and father of her her great grand parent Cleopatra Selene I

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/EgyptianPtolemies2.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg/175px-Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Cleopatra_VII_tetradrachm_Ascalon_mint.jpg/220px-Cleopatra_VII_tetradrachm_Ascalon_mint.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Cleopatra_VII_tetradrachm_Syria_mint.jpg/220px-Cleopatra_VII_tetradrachm_Syria_mint.jpg[/img:$uid]

She was most def Greek whether she had any "black" in her is debateable and i would say since we know most of her ancestors are inbreed she wasn't.

Can Angie pull it off? I hope so.

[Edited 6/21/10 0:02am]

PunkMistress said:

Without fail, when racism is discussed by people of color, white people who have never and will never experience the issues being discussed still feel the need to declare that the accounts of those who have had these experiences are baseless, silly, or without merit.

Ya know, I've noticed that - and from some otherwise really good (white) friends. It's aggravating, because I would always hope that they knew me better than to assert I would be making baseless claims.

Reel said:

Heck after Mel Gibson casted Jesus as white, when the whole educated world at least agrees that he was a person of color...nothing surprises me anymore.

Yeah, what was Mel Gibson thinking?

ehuffnsd said:

Two points. I won't bother reading this entire thread i gleaned from two pages what is going on

1.) Anicent people didn't have the same concept of race as we do today. The Ancient Egyptians in their art depicted themselves differently from all other Nationalities. They weren't as dark as the Kingdom of Kush and they darker than other Mediterrian peoples. Most people agree that possibly thru the 3 dynasty Egypt was mostly of "African Hertiage" after that the nation and ruling classes were multiracial but all of an Egyptian Identiy

2.) The Ptolomiec Dynasty was the last Pharoinc Dynasty. founded by Alexnader II, of Macedonia, more commonly known as Alexander the Great. (Agelina played his mother in the movie Alexander) After his death Ptolomy I Sator I, one of his Macedonian Generals became ruler of Egypt in 326BCE and Pharoh in 304BCE. At this point in time Egypt was ruled by a Greek Elite that intermarried each other, spoke Greek and practiced the Greek religion. Cleopatra VII was the last ruler of the Ptolomy family and the first to spek Egyptian or practice the Egyptian religion. She was manily of Macedonian/Greek decent and there has been some recent speculation that Cleopatra had a grandmother of some African decent due to the findings of remains believed to be that of her sister. But it still widely debated if the said remains are related to Cleopatra or not

The high degree of inbreeding amongst the Ptolemies can be seen from the ancestry of Cleopatra VII. As the graph below shows, she only had four great-grandparents and six (out of a possible 16) great-great-grandparents (furthermore, four of those six were descended from the other two).

Ptolomy VII and Cleopatra III were her great grandparents and mother and father to 3 of her 4 grandparents, they were also her great great grandparents by being the mother and father of her her great grand parent Cleopatra Selene I

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/EgyptianPtolemies2.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg/175px-Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Cleopatra_VII_tetradrachm_Ascalon_mint.jpg/220px-Cleopatra_VII_tetradrachm_Ascalon_mint.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Cleopatra_VII_tetradrachm_Syria_mint.jpg/220px-Cleopatra_VII_tetradrachm_Syria_mint.jpg[/img:$uid]

She was most def Greek whether she had any "black" in her is debateable and i would say since we know most of her ancestors are inbreed she wasn't.

Can Angie pull it off? I hope so.

[Edited 6/21/10 0:02am]

In the mid 80's I had a History teacher in H.S. tell me that Cleopatra was a black woman. Being black myself I was soooo impressed I went out and did my own research (ready to condemn Hollywood for inserting Liz Taylor in what I considered to be a black role) . What I found made me laugh. You are right, she is of Greek descent, not African or even Arabic. The reason she became soooo popular with the Egyptians is that on her coronation, she dressed herself as the Goddess Isis, which was an embrace of ancient Egyptian culture. She won her "subjects" hearts. Like I said, she was an extremely intelligent woman for her time and shattered many female stereotypes in the process. I also discovered that she wasn't a "whore" as Europeans later portrayed her. This label was affixed because of her betrayal of Rome.

PANDURITO said:

Reel said:

Heck after Mel Gibson casted Jesus as white, when the whole educated world at least agrees that he was a person of color...nothing surprises me anymore.

Yeah, what was Mel Gibson thinking?

You know what's really fucked about these hollywood versions of Jesus? They are all made to be frail and weak! Why was hollywood so quick to have a short, thin boned girly looking dude play Jesus? Jesus was a carpenter by trade which meant he worked hard, probably out in the open sun and used his muscles! Those actors looked pampered and like they lived on rice cakes and seaweed. Give me a burly dude with some hair on his chest and callouses on his hands with firm and noticeable biceps!!!! Dreads would be nice too since I doubt Jesus was doing the 100 brush stroke on his locks.

DesireeNevermind said:

PANDURITO said:

Yeah, what was Mel Gibson thinking?

You know what's really fucked about these hollywood versions of Jesus? They are all made to be frail and weak! Why was hollywood so quick to have a short, thin boned girly looking dude play Jesus? Jesus was a carpenter by trade which meant he worked hard, probably out in the open sun and used his muscles! Those actors looked pampered and like they lived on rice cakes and seaweed. Give me a burly dude with some hair on his chest and callouses on his hands with firm and noticeable biceps!!!! Dreads would be nice too since I doubt Jesus was doing the 100 brush stroke on his locks.

DesireeNevermind said:

PANDURITO said:

Yeah, what was Mel Gibson thinking?

You know what's really fucked about these hollywood versions of Jesus? They are all made to be frail and weak! Why was hollywood so quick to have a short, thin boned girly looking dude play Jesus? Jesus was a carpenter by trade which meant he worked hard, probably out in the open sun and used his muscles! Those actors looked pampered and like they lived on rice cakes and seaweed. Give me a burly dude with some hair on his chest and callouses on his hands with firm and noticeable biceps!!!! Dreads would be nice too since I doubt Jesus was doing the 100 brush stroke on his locks.

[img:$uid]http://www.salamandersociety.com/blacks/060226sperco_black_jesus.jpg[/img:$uid]

TonyVanDam said:

DesireeNevermind said:

You know what's really fucked about these hollywood versions of Jesus? They are all made to be frail and weak! Why was hollywood so quick to have a short, thin boned girly looking dude play Jesus? Jesus was a carpenter by trade which meant he worked hard, probably out in the open sun and used his muscles! Those actors looked pampered and like they lived on rice cakes and seaweed. Give me a burly dude with some hair on his chest and callouses on his hands with firm and noticeable biceps!!!! Dreads would be nice too since I doubt Jesus was doing the 100 brush stroke on his locks.

[img:$uid]http://www.salamandersociety.com/blacks/060226sperco_black_jesus.jpg[/img:$uid]

This is probably where hollywood bases Jesus's look from... The Shroud of Turin...

tinaz said:

This is probably where hollywood bases Jesus's look from... The Shroud of Turin...

That and 2000 years of Art History

PANDURITO said:

Reel said:

Heck after Mel Gibson casted Jesus as white, when the whole educated world at least agrees that he was a person of color...nothing surprises me anymore.

Yeah, what was Mel Gibson thinking?

yeah but mel went out of his way to do a film in Aramaic, in an effort to be historically accurate, but then cast the same blue eyed european in the role. Not that I think Jesus was irie dread, but more likely he looked arab

tinaz said:

TonyVanDam said:

[img:$uid]http://www.salamandersociety.com/blacks/060226sperco_black_jesus.jpg[/img:$uid]

This is probably where hollywood bases Jesus's look from... The Shroud of Turin...

I'm pretty sure that's just the lead singer of Nickelback.

I'm still upset about George Clooney playing me

JustErin said:

tinaz said:

This is probably where hollywood bases Jesus's look from... The Shroud of Turin...

I'm pretty sure that's just the lead singer of Nickelback.

Of Jeff Bridges.

.

[Edited 6/24/10 15:31pm]

tinaz said:

TonyVanDam said:

[img:$uid]http://www.salamandersociety.com/blacks/060226sperco_black_jesus.jpg[/img:$uid]

This is probably where hollywood bases Jesus's look from... The Shroud of Turin...

Wasn't the shroud proven to be a fake and the pic a self portrait of DaVinci?

VenusBlingBling said:

I understand that it can be ike a punch in the stomach when a white person (whatever that is) gets the role of a black person (whatever that is), which has happened oh so often.

But, as it has been pointed out, it is also quite good to check the facts, texts and evidences before arguing and insulting each other. No one knows exactly what she looked like. She was mixed. She was of Grecian and Roman ancestry. Persian. Etcetera.

But historians are still debating and researching so non of us can say she really was this or that.

Cleopatra was a powerful human being and lived in Egypt. I think that's what we can dare to state as facts.

She was NOT black. She was Egyptian because she was born in Egypt, but to Greek parents.

dseann said:

VenusBlingBling said:

I understand that it can be ike a punch in the stomach when a white person (whatever that is) gets the role of a black person (whatever that is), which has happened oh so often.

But, as it has been pointed out, it is also quite good to check the facts, texts and evidences before arguing and insulting each other. No one knows exactly what she looked like. She was mixed. She was of Grecian and Roman ancestry. Persian. Etcetera.

But historians are still debating and researching so non of us can say she really was this or that.

Cleopatra was a powerful human being and lived in Egypt. I think that's what we can dare to state as facts.

She was NOT black. She was Egyptian because she was born in Egypt, but to Greek parents.

Again....one cannot claim that she was entirely black nor entirely greek because her maternal heritage is incomplete. Also, given that Greek male royals had concubines...we cannot deduce with all accuracy that her paternal bloodline like was entirely Greek. Venus is right. Historians are still debating so none of us can say she was 100% percent this or that and it all depends on what historian you choose to believe. At best, you can call her mixed because hell...even the greeks were mixing it up before she came along. And can we stop saying she fucked her baby brother? All marriages are not consumated. Plus she allegedly killed him so I doubt she wanted to get some baby brother dick beforehand.

Carry On.

kpowers said:

I'm still upset about George Clooney playing me

that's it.....I'm done

Also I read in People magazine today that Thandie Newton won their poll on who would be best for the role....... doesnt mean shit, but it's just to put out there

carry on

I think skin color will be among the least of the film's fictionalizations.

DesireeNevermind said:

dseann said:

She was NOT black. She was Egyptian because she was born in Egypt, but to Greek parents.

Again....one cannot claim that she was entirely black nor entirely greek because her maternal heritage is incomplete. Also, given that Greek male royals had concubines...we cannot deduce with all accuracy that her paternal bloodline like was entirely Greek. Venus is right. Historians are still debating so none of us can say she was 100% percent this or that and it all depends on what historian you choose to believe. At best, you can call her mixed because hell...even the greeks were mixing it up before she came along. And can we stop saying she fucked her baby brother? All marriages are not consumated. Plus she allegedly killed him so I doubt she wanted to get some baby brother dick beforehand.

Carry On.

The offspring of concubines were never in line for the throne as Cleo and her brother were.

Secondly, when did we say she fucked her brother?

DesireeNevermind said:

dseann said:

She was NOT black. She was Egyptian because she was born in Egypt, but to Greek parents.

Again....one cannot claim that she was entirely black nor entirely greek because her maternal heritage is incomplete. Also, given that Greek male royals had concubines...we cannot deduce with all accuracy that her paternal bloodline like was entirely Greek. Venus is right. Historians are still debating so none of us can say she was 100% percent this or that and it all depends on what historian you choose to believe. At best, you can call her mixed because hell...even the greeks were mixing it up before she came along. And can we stop saying she fucked her baby brother? All marriages are not consumated. Plus she allegedly killed him so I doubt she wanted to get some baby brother dick beforehand.

Carry On.

Egyptians didn't think of themselves as White Black Arab or anything else they were Egyptians. However no other Ptolomic ruler aside from Cleopatra VII, who we are talking about, practiced the Epytian religion or spoke Epytian. They consiered themselves Hellenes and spoke Kiorne Greek and practiced the Greek Religion. And no she didn't want to be coregent with her brother Ptolomy XIV after the death of her father, and when his visors tried to strong her out of power is when she went to Caesar and setting into motion the end of the Roman Republic and changing the world forever.

dseann said:

tinaz said:

This is probably where hollywood bases Jesus's look from... The Shroud of Turin...

Wasn't the shroud proven to be a fake and the pic a self portrait of DaVinci?

not really. the Church only allows small samples and the what they've figured out is parts of it were restorted during different times so it's still pretyt much a quesiton of faith.

ehuffnsd said:

dseann said:

Wasn't the shroud proven to be a fake and the pic a self portrait of DaVinci?

not really. the Church only allows small samples and the what they've figured out is parts of it were restorted during different times so it's still pretyt much a quesiton of faith.

Clearly you don't watch The Discovery Channel.

It's been proven a fake and the image is that of DaVinci wrapped in some kind of sheet. All the other traditional Catholic pics of Jesus throughout his lifetime are also portraits of DaVinci at different stages of his life. Not being funny here either. They found and showed his official portraits and they are identical.

dseann said:

ehuffnsd said:

not really. the Church only allows small samples and the what they've figured out is parts of it were restorted during different times so it's still pretyt much a quesiton of faith.

Clearly you don't watch The Discovery Channel.

It's been proven a fake and the image is that of DaVinci wrapped in some kind of sheet. All the other traditional Catholic pics of Jesus throughout his lifetime are also portraits of DaVinci at different stages of his life. Not being funny here either. They found and showed his official portraits and they are identical.

i haven't had a tv in a year so i missed it. but for the most up to date on stories on the web is still inconclusive, contimated samples, pollen from the mideast, various other mysteries.

the Church doesn't say it's real, but also don't stop pious veneration, whatever makes people feel closer to the Divine.