johnart said:

OK Nah.

I have had a few and could only make it a few posts past my last one without getting PTFO.

Can we just agree that maybe someone of a bit darker persuasion than Angie might have made a more fitting choice for the role without callin all white folk racist and all of that nonsense bullshit.

Shit. For real.

I'm just glad Beyonce didn't get the role

bboy87 said:

johnart said:

OK Nah.

I have had a few and could only make it a few posts past my last one without getting PTFO.

Can we just agree that maybe someone of a bit darker persuasion than Angie might have made a more fitting choice for the role without callin all white folk racist and all of that nonsense bullshit.

Shit. For real.

I'm just glad Beyonce didn't get the role

jone70 said:

jeami said:

Once again, it sounds like the non-black folks need to STFU immediately. The ancient Egyptians were black because Egypt is a part of Africa, NOT the Middle East. If you don't believe me, just look at a map. For some strange reason, North Africa is now considered to be the Middle East. I guess people say that because so many Middle Eastern people live there. They don't realize that the Middle Easterners took over that part of Africa years ago. Before they came along, Black folks were in control.

No, Angie isn't fit to play the role because she's WHITE, NOT BLACK OR MIDDLE EASTERN. Then again, this is just a stupid Hollywood movie so what else can you expect?

BTW, I wish Hollywood would stop doing stupid remakes and start making new, original movies. They keep on making the same stupid movies because the industry is racist, sexist, and homophobic. If the industry was more diverse and open-minded, there would be more people that are capable of making decent movies.

[Edited 6/13/10 18:30pm]

For what it's worth, some Egyptians do not consider themselves African. I once got into a discussion with an Egyptian cab driver about how he should see an exhibition (Short Century: Liberation & Independence Movements in Africa) and he was like, "I'm not from Africa." Silly me, I thought Egypt was on the continent of Africa. I think northern Africa (ie Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, etc.) does not really identify with sub-Saharan Africa.

yea and I have no idea why.

PANDURITO said:

Harlepolis said:

Have you seen the Nubian people who live in the south of Egypt? Have you EVER been to Egypt? Or the "foot in the mouth" routine is just an impulse?

I know the Nubians, yes. Less than 1% of Egypt population. There are more blacks in Spain.

my mom's side of the family is Nubian an she spoke the language as well.

I think i should play Cleopatra

In the end it's just a movie, really.

Genesia said:

Deadflow3r said:

I guess I mistakenly thought that you were saying that it is OK that she not be played by actress who was neither of African or Asian descent. That is why I addressed your comment. If I am wrong and in fact you, like me, believe she should NOT be played by a caucasian then I am sorry for misreading your posts.

No, I don't think she has to played by an African - because she wasn't more than a quarter African, if that. And she damn sure wasn't Asian.

Man - we need some remedial reading classes up in this joint.

I know, right?

Cleopatra was a homely mixed race woman who fucked her brother. And why are people acting like everyone who comes from Egypt was black? Ptolemy was white and he was born (and died) in Egypt. Tons of Cleo's relatives were white. None of the Egyptian people I know refer to themselves as black. But that's anecdotal evidence so it really doesn't support my argument.

BombSquad said:

sorry, but Cleopatra was just a black as Thomas Jefferson, George Washington or Abraham Lincoln were Native Americans. or as Alexander the Great and his soldiers were black.

she's a descendant of one of Alexander the Great's generals, the origin was 100 percent Helenistc/Greek. she also spoke Greek like all other Ptolemaic "governours" before her, and only learned Egyptian as a second language later on

[Edited 6/14/10 6:36am]

BEST REPLY.

I have no idea why some people are so convinced that Cleo was what we today consider black. She was ethnically Macedonian.

White actors snagging minority roles causes furor

By Lisa Respers France, CNN June 18, 2010 -- Updated 2036 GMT (0436 HKT)

(CNN) -- There was a time when if a white actor or actress was cast in the role of a character of color, there was very little outcry.

When Swedish actor Warner Oland portrayed Asian detective Charlie Chan or Elizabeth Taylor was cast as Cleopatra, the Queen of Egypt, there was no call for boycotts or publicized outrage.

But times have changed, and these days some fans ask the question why, with so many talented black, Latino and Asian actors, does Hollywood continue to pass them over?

"It seems that not a year goes by where this debate isn't had, and I think it's a worthy debate," said Andrew Wallenstein, editor for The Hollywood Reporter's website. "I think this stems from a long-held frustration regarding the access of minority actors to leading roles. It's bad enough that they are far less likely to be cast in those roles in general, and it's downright galling to them that in roles in which they are perceived as having a natural advantage they are still getting beaten out."

The latest example is the controversy surrounding the news that Angelina Jolie has been tapped to play the Queen of the Nile in a planned film based on the forthcoming biography "Cleopatra: A Life."

A posting about the backlash on CNN's Marquee blog drew more than a thousand responses as varied as from those who argued Cleopatra was Greek and not dark-skinned to those who noted Hollywood productions are often not historically accurate.

"I believe everyone is overlooking the obvious: Cleo was NOT Egyptian, she was of Greek descent," wrote a commenter named Daniel. "Cleo was a Ptolemy and they were Greek descendents of one of Alexander's generals; they married within their own family almost to the point of inbreeding and stayed that way until Cleo's death."

A visitor to the site named Gregory took a different tack.

"[Cleopatra] was an African woman ... before British colonialism so she was a Black woman," he said. "It reminds me of old cowboy movies where the White guy kisses an Indian girl, but in reality she was played by a White starlet with makeup on. Come on people!"

Two years ago, Cambridge University Egyptologist Sally Ann Ashton touched off debate over the queen's look when she used ancient artifacts to produce a computer-generated image of what Cleopatra may have looked like -- complete with olive skin and a full lower lip.

"She probably wasn't just completely European," Ashton told the Daily Mail newspaper. "You've got to remember that her family had actually lived in Egypt for 300 years by the time she came to power."

And others on the Marquee blog pointed out there is an element of suspending belief when it comes to Hollywood.

"It's acting folks," wrote a commenter named Dianne. "You don't have to be the color of the person you're impersonating. How far do you want to take this? We should fire Hugh Laurie immediately because he's an Oxford, England, born actor playing an American on House M.D.?"

Jolie is not the only one caught up in the colorblind casting debate.

Fans recently cried foul at the casting of Jake Gyllenhaal as the Prince of Persia and the young actor Noah Ringer as the adolescent hero Aang and other actors in the upcoming film "The Last Airbender." There were even calls for boycotts of both films.

There appears to be no hard and fast data on how often white actors are cast as characters of color, but some industry observers say it happens enough to raise the ire of some fans.

Craig Detweiler, director of the Center for Entertainment, Media and Culture at Pepperdine University, said Hollywood has "a long and painful history of misrepresentation."

"Whether you are talking about Warner Oland as Charlie Chan or Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra, given opportunities to give actors appropriate roles, Hollywood often defers to box office," he said. "With 'The Last Airbender' you have four Asian/Inuit roles that all went to Caucasian actors."

Detweiler said he believes "Prince of Persia" suffered at the box office because moviegoers didn't buy Gyllenhaal in the title role. "Sometimes Hollywood sabotages themselves by having lower expectations than the audience," he said. "If you think about it, in an America that can elect Barack Obama it's somewhat shocking that supposedly progressive Hollywood can be so regressive in their casting."

Tyler Maddox-Simms is director of the soon-to-be-released film "Love Chronicles: Secrets Revealed," which features an all-black cast including Vivica Fox and Ving Rhames. Maddox-Simms says she has no problem with Jolie playing Cleopatra, though she understands the frustration -- especially given the dearth of roles available for minority actors.

"Personally, in my films I want the best talent, no matter what the color," Maddox-Simms. "For black actresses especially there are so few good roles every year and so few lead parts for actors of color."

THR.com's editor Wallenstein said there is an inherent double standard in that there is not much crossover in the opposite direction with actors of color snagging roles written for whites. Maddox-Simms agrees and said the movie business is simply that -- an industry out to make a profit.

"When you are making a film, you have the art and you have the business," the director said. "Angelina Jolie will bring in the box office. It's typically believed that black films, minus a Tyler Perry, will not bring in the box office receipts that a film with an A-list star."

Writer Tambay Obenson reported on the Jolie casting for Shadow and Act, an online collective of writers, filmmakers, film critics and film enthusiasts who discuss primarily film and filmmakers of the African Diaspora. He believes a lack of knowledge about Cleopatra's heritage coupled with anxiety about the movie industry's track record of casting choices may be helping to flame the Jolie controversy.

And he noted that Jolie is a bit of a lightning rod given her past performance as a biracial woman in "A Mighty Heart."

"I have talked to some people who would agree that Cleopatra wasn't black, but the fact that they would cast Angelina Jolie rather than, say, a Mediterranean actress still causes some concern," Obenson said. "There was a lot of backlash about Jolie as Mariane Pearl in 'A Mighty Heart,' and I think that was a bit more warranted."

When it comes to portraying one of the most famous queens in history, at least a few commenters on CNN's Marquee blog found that the color of her skin may not be the only reason Jolie is perceived as not the perfect choice for the plum role.

"Now that we've established that Cleopatra wasn't black, as none of the Ptolemies were and almost none of the Pharoahs, let's get down to the real question," wrote a commenter listed as Snakdar. "Angelina is hot, but she's too old for the part."

[Edited 6/18/10 20:34pm]

(CNN) -- There was a time when if a white actor or actress was cast in the role of a character of color, there was very little outcry.

Guess there was a time when people had REAL problems to deal with

Has anybody mentioned Manuela Testolinis' mother yet? She is Egyptian and she certainly doesn't look mixed, never mind white.

Oh well, words don't matter. What matters is actions. If Angelina makes the movie and people don't go to see it and maybe boycott then things might change. However, if everone just and says "that's the way it has always been, you can't change Hollywood" indeed historical figures will be played by the fairest actor possible.

Scarlett Johannson would be better for the role, after all, since when has historical accuracy been on the Hollywood agenda? The central motivating factor behind the decision-making throughout the whole industry is economic, not artistic.

Why not go by what she looked like on the coins?

Yikes.

MidniteMagnet said:

Genesia said:

No, I don't think she has to played by an African - because she wasn't more than a quarter African, if that. And she damn sure wasn't Asian.

Man - we need some remedial reading classes up in this joint.

I know, right?

Cleopatra was a homely mixed race woman who fucked her brother. And why are people acting like everyone who comes from Egypt was black? Ptolemy was white and he was born (and died) in Egypt. Tons of Cleo's relatives were white. None of the Egyptian people I know refer to themselves as black. But that's anecdotal evidence so it really doesn't support my argument.

Perhaps because to some people there is a difference between coming from Egypt and going to Egypt. There is a difference between having indigenous roots and having invader ancestry. Also, Greece had black citizens who were there by trade, business, travel, and slavery so even still it's not impossible to thing that Cleo's father was not authentically Greek. I have an Egyptian uncle and he very much refers to himself as black and also African and also Egyptian because he is all of those things. Do the Egyptian people you know refer to themselves as white by chance? Maybe arab?

It's funny to me that people have a problem even thinking Cleo the 7th was part black but they have no problem thinking she was some lily white chick.

JustErin said:

Why not go by what she looked like on the coins?

Yikes.

those are some mighty pretty and detailed looking coins. Most of them look like crap and are quite rusted. But.....using this depiciton...certainly the most appropriate person to play Cleo would be none other than:

[img:$uid]http://www.topnews.in/files/images/MayaRudolph2.jpg[/img:$uid]

Ottensen said:

bboy87 said:

I'm just glad Beyonce didn't get the role

Lawd I'd sooner see Liza as Cleo.

dayum check out Thandie

[img:$uid]http://www.alubakalu.com/ilulu/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Thandie-Newton2.jpg[/img:$uid]

CHIC0 said:

Excellent choice ...but a little too late. Tina could play Cleo's mother. I think they need to find a new African American actress, fair complexion, or just get the role to Hale Berry or something.

CHIC0 said:

Excellent choice ...but a little too late. Tina could play Cleo's mother. I think they need to find a new African American actress, fair complexion, or just get the role to Hale Berry or something. Now Angelina will have even more haters. Hasn't she had enough?

bboy87 said:

johnart said:

OK Nah.

I have had a few and could only make it a few posts past my last one without getting PTFO.

Can we just agree that maybe someone of a bit darker persuasion than Angie might have made a more fitting choice for the role without callin all white folk racist and all of that nonsense bullshit.

Shit. For real.

I'm just glad Beyonce didn't get the role

Hell, i'd rather Beyonce get it than Angelina. But hell, Beyonce can't act her way out of a paper bag, so nevermind

missmad said:

jone70 said:

For what it's worth, some Egyptians do not consider themselves African. I once got into a discussion with an Egyptian cab driver about how he should see an exhibition (Short Century: Liberation & Independence Movements in Africa) and he was like, "I'm not from Africa." Silly me, I thought Egypt was on the continent of Africa. I think northern Africa (ie Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, etc.) does not really identify with sub-Saharan Africa.

yea and I have no idea why.

I'll just keep my mouth closed on that one, lest I offend the entire forum. But....if you listen to Mommar khadafi, he is not like the leaders of the countries that you mentioned. Also, technically there is no such thing as "The Middle East" all of that was AFRICA until they built the Suez Canal thus taking the name of the so called middle eastern region completely out of Africa.

Here's what i will say without getting myself all riled up. Greeks and other Non Blacks came to AFRICA to study. One of the first UNIVERSITIES was in Sub Saharan Africa. That University was in what they called Timbuktu also known as present day Mali. The present blacks that were bought here on Slave Ships were from the West African Countries then known as Mali, Ghana, and Sonyah.

History was stolen, Libraries were burned, because while people in North African and Sub Saharan Africa were so advanced in just about ever domain known to mankind. Thier NORTHERN counterparts weren't doing very much with their time. But building circular blocks that served absolutely no purpose. So instead of looking stupid, they looted resources of the land, chissled off noses of the spinx, and other Egyptian artifacts, and somehow convinced lighter skinned Africans to not identify with their darker-complexioned brothers and sisters. The entire thing sickens me. if you ever want to strike a sore spot with me, just talk about this subject. Sorry for writting a freekin book on War and Peace. Just remember History is exactly that HIS STORY! He who wins the wars REWRITES HIS Story.

Reel said:

missmad said:

I'll just keep my mouth closed on that one, lest I offend the entire forum. But....if you listen to Mommar khadafi, he is not like the leaders of the countries that you mentioned. Also, technically there is no such thing as "The Middle East" all of that was AFRICA until they built the Suez Canal thus taking the name of the so called middle eastern region completely out of Africa.

Here's what i will say without getting myself all riled up. Greeks and other Non Blacks came to AFRICA to study. One of the first UNIVERSITIES was in Sub Saharan Africa. That University was in what they called Timbuktu also known as present day Mali. The present blacks that were bought here on Slave Ships were from the West African Countries then known as Mali, Ghana, and Sonyah.

History was stolen, Libraries were burned, because while people in North African and Sub Saharan Africa were so advanced in just about ever domain known to mankind. Thier NORTHERN counterparts weren't doing very much with their time. But building circular blocks that served absolutely no purpose. So instead of looking stupid, they looted resources of the land, chissled off noses of the spinx, and other Egyptian artifacts, and somehow convinced lighter skinned Africans to not identify with their darker-complexioned brothers and sisters. The entire thing sickens me. if you ever want to strike a sore spot with me, just talk about this subject. Sorry for writting a freekin book on War and Peace. Just remember History is exactly that HIS STORY! He who wins the wars REWRITES HIS Story.

I think most of the non-black Africans(Arabs) came way after the Egyptian ccivilization though, except for the Semite people who used to reside in Yemen and who worked as slaves for the Egyptians.

In middle eastern history, it says that all Arabs are descendants of "Adnan" and "Ghahtan". The former occupied the northern region(the northern borders of what is now called Kingdom Of Saudi Arabia) and the latter occupied the southern region and who are the majority(Yemen,,,,in which all the Semite people and prophets like Ismail, Abraham and Isaac are descended from). Northern Africa was invaded by the Arabs after the last prophet's death(Mohammed - which was centuries after the Egyptian civilization) and even some parts of Europe like Spain's Andalusia.

After that, the bulk of them fled to Africa after Genghis Khan and his Mongol empire invaded and tackled the Islamic capital at the time(Baghdad).

[Edited 6/20/10 2:09am]

Reel said:

Greeks and other Non Blacks came to AFRICA to study. One of the first UNIVERSITIES was in Sub Saharan Africa.

Any link on that? Please?

Harlepolis said:

missfee said:

Damn isn't Hollywood tired as fucking hell remaking this damn movie???? Why does each generation need to have a damn "Cleopatra" movie with the top actress playing the lead role at that time? Fucking rediculous!

I agree!

Cleopatra is SO over-exposed. Can we see a film about Nefertiti, or better yet Hatshepsut, the FIRST female Pharaoh of Ancient Egypt? Not Queen, not Consort, not Co-Regent – Pharaoh. I’d def pay to see that,,,couple of time.

PANDURITO said:

PANDURITO said:

Reel said:

Greeks and other Non Blacks came to AFRICA to study. One of the first UNIVERSITIES was in Sub Saharan Africa.

Any link on that? Please?

Google or and research Timbuktu.

SavonOsco said:

PANDURITO said:

Guess there was a time when people had REAL problems to deal with

A REAL problem was when there was a time minorities would voice their displeasures and be ignored or worse... Gotta love the good old days of white folks putting shoe polish on their face to portray blacks and native Americans..SMDH Angie's is a box office draw,but too old for my liking

Too old? lol That would depend on what age they are going to portray Cleopatra. Also, people over estimate Angelina's box office power, the films where she's the lead actress have rarely done well.

Heck after Mel Gibson casted Jesus as white, when the whole educated world at least agrees that he was a person of color...nothing surprises me anymore.

Reel said:

Heck after Mel Gibson casted Jesus as white, when the whole educated world at least agrees that he was a person of color...nothing surprises me anymore.

I saw an old movie once where Genghis Khan was played by none other than John Wayne.

Mach said:

Isn't she too fair skinned to pull off Cleopatra

She's also too pretty. The historical Cleopatra had one of the most beautiful ... minds of her time, but not physical beauty. The coins minted at the time of her reign show her to have a nose the size of Tucan Sam's.