So originally being from Boston, there's basically no way you can be alive and not be a big baseball fan. I love baseball. I'm almost 40 years old and have absolutely loved the game since I was little kid. While I understand how some folks find it boring, to me, it's a way of life.

But truth be told, ever since the Red Sox bought the rights to negotiate with a Japanese pitcher for $51M three years ago, baseball has continued to mean less and less to me each year. We (The Red Sox) were one of only two or three teams that could have done this.

I know some folks argue that teams like the Yankees are good for baseball because they have owners that are willing to do whatever it takes to win. And being from Boston, a team that usually has the second highest payroll, I am definitely a fan of a team willing to pay up to remain competitive. But how is this system good for fans of teams in Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, DC, Toronto, Oakland, Cleveland on and on?

To be clear, this isn't strictly about fairness. That would be too whiny and miss the point. It's about making a game enjoyable for everyone. I mean, would you set up a Texas Hold Em tournament and tell people at the start, "well whatever you can afford to bring to the table is your entry fee"? Is that a good forum?

And even though I'm a big beneficiary of this system as it stands today, I care about it (the game) less and less, because it's kind of boring watching a team that has 6 or 7 guys whose individual salaries are bigger than the entire payroll of four or five teams out there. When you watch the Yankess play, you're bascially watching an All Star game every night. Do folks really find that special/fun?

Again, to try to prove this isn't me being whiny/jealous, even though I'm a Yankee hater, I will totally give it up to the team of the late 90's. Wasn't rooting for the Yanks in the late 90's because of all the home grown talent where the imported guys were more gritty like Paul O'Neill and Chuck Knoblauch a hell of a lot more special than watching these hired assassins who are making $25M a year and have no loyalty to anything but the almighty dollar?

Nowadays, teams like the Yanks and Sox trade away prospects for proven players that can play, wait for those teams to develop that younger talent into bonafide stars, and then simply buy them back again because the other team can't afford to keep them. I'm sorry, but that's not fun to me. I want to root for a team of mostly homegrown talent that fought their way up together. I want trades and free agents signings to be the exception, not the rule of team building.

So I ask fellow fans of the game, since the revenue sharing is clearly not working. All it is doing is inspiring those teams owners to pocket some extra cash. Do you think a salary cap would help the game of baseball?

i totally relate to your post .

I was a die hard phillies fan back in the day - when they almost won - 76, 77 and 78 .... then they went out and got Pete Rose - and finally won it in 1980.

Then the players went on strike and - my interest in baseball has come and gone ....

I totally admit to being back into the Phillies since i went to see them at spring training (around 2001 - and i must say a GREAT way to get back into baseball - meaning everyone who has missed the game etc SHOULD go to spring training )

My problems with baseball stem from the idea of the salaries . I dont get why the players are given these HUGE salaries after they do well ... and then have no (in general) reason to do well again . The classic case this year I am reminded of is Jason Werth - who is due to get a big fat contract at the end of the year - who is batting the best on the Phillies this year?? ? of course jason werth ! Time and Time again you see this with pitchers - who go 10-12 and get these 5 million a yr deals ???? what is that about ???? 10-12 is a losing record ????

I think i feel like goin on and on ... i just dont get why it isnt TOTALLY based on performance .... i get paid on how much work i do !!!!! why cant these guys get paid that way ???

to be honest with ya - i have not been to a regular season game in years - cant afford it !

No, having the most money doesn't guarantee success. The Yankees are out of the World Series more often than they're in it. Same for the Red Sox.

And the hapless Mets and Cubs...LOL. Talk about wasting money.

On the other hand, you have the Rays and the Rockies and the D'Backs and even the Astros getting to the World Series (and sometimes winning!). If the Athletics and Mariners hadn't been huge playoff chokers over the last 10 years, each one of them could have won two or three Series in their heydey.

I'm tempted to say that teams like the Pirates and Royals have no chance ever, but then look at the Rays. They did it as cheap as you can.

Hope springs eternal!

NO.

The money or profits MLB are in the millions if not in some instances billions, it's a matter how the money going to be split. Why do players get a good portions of the profits, it's called a union. Save me for the for the love of the game, players have always played because they couldn't do anything else and for the money.

RodeoSchro said:

Thank you! Everyone likes to hate on the Yankees, but they play by the rules set by baseball. The Yankees didn't win shit from '81-'95 and '01-'08 - where were the haters then? It's more than spending money, it's about having smart ownership, a solid front office and a good minor league system. Look at the Twins and the Rays.

Forget about all this salary cap talk - it'll never happen, because of the Players' Union, one of the most powerful unions in the country.

Baseball's biggest problem is, unlike the NFL, the money is not centralized. Baseball is a regional game, and the revenue is not shared equally. Put that on the dudes who run baseball.

uPtoWnNY said:

But see, that's just it. You're missing my point, which I tried to be clear about. I'm NOT hating on the Yankess, (despite the fact that I hate them). Their run in the late 90s was the EXACT prototype of what you are talking about. Uber-smart front office. Great personnel development.

But today? Let's deal with reality here. In the summer of 2008 there were 3 marquee free agents. Burnett, Texiera and Sabathia. Guess who got ALL 3? Guess who won the world series? Sure it's not a guarantee but it certainly stacks the chips in their favor, (hence my Hold em analogy).

My point isn't to hate on the Yanks. That would be stupid because you're right. They are playing within the current rules. Good for them. Congrats to you and the other Yankee fans.

My point is that the current system sucks giant donkey balls. And this is coming from a Red Sox fan who has won two World Series' in the past 5 years. Just as many people hate on the Sox fans as Yanks. I'm just as much a beneficiary of this system as you. So dliuting my point to simply being a Yankee hater literally makes no sense.

It's just not as special as it should be.

So under the current system, if you are born in Pittsburgh or KC or DC and you're a sports fan, you have one of two choices.

Root for a team with no virtually chance of winning. Root for one of the 5 teams who are always in the playoffs. How is that a good thing when this is a GAME? Do you think it's a coincidence that Boston and NY are the biggest two visting team draws EVERYWHERE they go across the country? People root for winners. Look at Anaheim's stadium attendance when they went to the Series in 02. Look at Tampa's during the playoffs the past few years. Attendance SKYROCKETS when your team is winning. It's just human nature.

With regards to profits. Profits come from excessive ticket prices. Excessive ticket prices come from excessive salaries.

The other 3 big sports all have salary caps, and the most popular sport in the country, football, has a new contender coming up every year due to the excellence of the system. So why can't this work in baseball? And why wouldn't you want to see other teams have a more level playing field?

Again, to try to dispel the Yankee hater junk, when the Sox signed John Lackey this off season, I was really turned off. The monster just keeps getting fed. The rich keep getting richer. The system is broken and needs a remedy.

If not a salary cap, what fixes it?

Athletes in ALL sports NEED a salary cap

Fenwick said:

In the NFL, you had men of vision like Wellington Mara who got the owners to understand revenue-sharing would benefit the league in the long run. That's why Green Bay and New York have an equal chance to get to the Super Bowl.

Baseball owners don't think like that - just look at their history(and the way they ripped players off). Every team is an island unto itself. Then you have shit owners like the dudes in Pittsburgh & KC, who don't even bother to spend money on players/scouting/minor league systems. The greedy mfers pocket it for themselves instead of doing what the Twins do. Baseball knows exactly what needs to be done, but it'll never happen, and it's not even worth bringing up. The owners expect the Players Union to save them from themselves - ha! Fat chance of that happening.

luv4u said:

I believe in letting the market determine salaries. Professional athletes are entertainers, no different than rock stars or Hollywood actors. They have a unique skill, they generate tons of revenue, and they put tremendous wear and tear on their bodies(look at old football players - they're physical wrecks). I believe in the American system, so I have no problem with these cats(or any citizen) getting as much paper as they can. No one whines when Tom Cruise, Bono, Bruce Springsteen or Madonna get paid, but fans love to get on their high horse about pro athletes, and never the owners.

RodeoSchro said:

They are always in the post season. Unless you haven't been paying
attention haven't those two teams won 2 of the past 3 World Series.
They should have a salary cap. The Pirates and the Royals(2 past traditional
powerhouses)just can't compete in the market anymore. You would just like
to see these teams with a rich tradition be competitive again beyond
the first quarter of the season. These teams haven't been relevant since
the Clinton Administration.

phunkdaddy said:

A salary cap won't help the Royals and Pirates, unless they get new ownership and creative front office management.

uPtoWnNY said:

I guess I'm a bit confused. I agree with everything you say here and think it's spot on. So how does instituting a cap with a maximum AND minimum spend threshold not remedy this? Teams that don't have enough of a fan base to cover the draw either get booted or relocated.

Bottom line - to your point about entertainers. The only thing the every day fan can do is vote with their wallet. (Like the first responder mentioned). I used to go to game three or four times a year. Now - I NEVER go.

Five or six years ago I had a list of favorite singers I still wanted to see in concert. That list consisted of Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, Peter Gabriel and James Taylor.

Since Smokey basically only does casinos now, (which is an absolute crime considering how important he is to pop music's history), that was easy enough.

My ex-wife bought me tickets to see Stevie in Boston 3 years ago. brilliant show.

But when Peter Gabriel came to town and was asking something like $250 for premium seats, I literally said f*ck off!

So when the A-Rod's of the world opt out of a contract paying them $25M a year because that's "not enough", (but somehow $27M a year is), all I can do is exit stage left. And while I bemoan having to do that now with my favorite sport from childhood days, that's literally all I as a fan can do. Vote no with my wallet until it gets fixed.

Fenwick said:

Exactly. Let your wallet do the talking. And if enough fans wake up and do that, then you might see a meeting of the minds between players and owners.

It's already happening in the NFL. Because of the economy, teams are having trouble selling those ridiculous PSLs. I know fans who sat in Giants Stadium all those years in bad weather when the team sucked ass having to give up tickets. They've had those seats for a generation, but they can't afford the outrageous prices. Who the fuck can pay between $10k-$20k PER SEAT nowadays? Bad move by the NFL.

Yes, there should be. We're talking sports here. No one is saving the world, or doing anything "great". Sure athletes train and are often times the epitome of being a human machine and dominating the game their in, but does that deserve $20,000,000? Fuck no. Let's praise them with our ticket purchases, or buying gear, etc. We have folks fucking starving in this country, the richest country in the world, and what do we do with our surplus? Build skyscrapers and bombs and pay athletes exorbitant amounts of money for looking good in a uniform. So what is Mark Maguire had some great batting average? What about the law clerk that's making $10/hr and is working 12 hours days to make her hot shot lawyer boss look good in court? What is she getting? This country has a very skewed idea of how to distribute and use its money. Our way of thinking if horrible out of balance. I'm not against someone earning a good living and living a good life, but there's no reasoning for an athlete, who is only good for a few years really, depending on their sport, should get more money than God. In 15 years when these baseball and football players are too old to really play and be any good, what then? It's not like they invested a smaller income and let their money make money for them for retirement. No, let's dump cash on them now and do all but suck their dick to get them to run around a field like a monkey w/ a cup.

I think the same thing about movie stars. When Adam Sandler is getting $20 million a movie, something in the world is wrong. Give these people a cool million dollars, and then give them a huge chunk of the profits. Let them EARN what they're WORTH according to the public's opinion. Hollywood can make the movie, but it's US who vote with our ticket purchase. Who deemed Adam fucking Sandler worth 20 mil? Pffft, dude's a dumbass deluxe.

When we've eliminated homelessness and poverty and there is no "poverty line", soup line, etc, then we'll talk about paying someone a bit more.

ernestsewell said:

How is a law clerk $10 making an hour a pro athlete/movie star's problem? Like I said before, it's about MARKET VALUE. Adam Sandler gets $20mil because he puts people in theatres. His films make money - when they stop making money, he won't get $20mil. Same with Michael Jordan getting the big money. He's a genetic freak with a skill 99% of us don't have. People want to see him play and buy his gear. That how the system works. I don't begrudge any American citizen for getting as much loot as they can. If someone's willing to pay for it, more power to them. Getting angry about it is pointless. It's how the country was set up, and it's never going to change.

uPtoWnNY said:

First off, no one is angry about anything.

Second, Adam Sandler has never been worth 20 million, unless it's among the white trash of America.

Lastly - it's NOT how this country is set up, it's what this country has become, and it's fucking pathetic. No wonder other countries laugh at us. We're like a rich kid who squabbles away its money on trivialities while lesser people suffer and die needlessly.

It'll never change as long as people think it will never change.

Whatever the market will bear, baby!

ernestsewell said:

Those 'trivialities' make a lot of money(sports, drugs, porn, fancy clothes/cars). It's true, we Americans love our toys.

It'll never change as long as people think it will never change.[/quote]

Well I'd take that a step further and say it will never change unless people do more than just talk about it. Which is why I don't go to games anymore except for on very special occasions (road trips etc...)

I am as a big a baseball fan as anyone out there. When I was a kid I collected baseball cards and knew ALL the players states in ALL of the teams. (Back in the late 70s there were only 26 teams). But they've slowly lost me because of the never ending greed and a system where the rich get richer and the poor stay poor.

Hey - that's America right! Take advantage of the system and make as much coin as you can.

I'm not communist. And Uptown is absolutely 100% right. If somebody out there is willing to pay for Alex Rodriguex to make $27M a year to hit a ball. Good for him and them. Enjoy yourselves!

If someone wants to see Peter Gabriel badly enough that they are willing to pay $500 for a pair of tickets. Good for them and him!

The simple fact of the matter is that every day fans are getting priced out. And teams in areas of the country that don't have a lot of every day fans are even that much less competitive.

If my "fandom" of baseball is basically on life support, I have to imagine there are a lot more people who have already jumped ship or will soon do the same. I certainly hope that's the case.

Hey what's that old fan saying - there'a always next year.....

hey Fenwick, I gave up going to live sporting events myself this year, also. I didn't renew my spring training season tickets this year, I've had them for over a decade.

I feel like the only way I can voice my disapproval of the outlandish prices is by not going to the games. They still get money from me from merch and the baseball package, so it's not like I've completely severed from MLB. I just don't like being taken advantage of, and major league sports kind of do just that. They don't care about us much, corporate dollars are their main target in this day and age. It will only get worse until the collapse of the country IMO.

State of the union.

JerseyKRS said:

See, that's why they got you. They're smart. They know Americans will never completely give up their love for pro sports, especially football. Our Sundays are centered around that game.

JerseyKRS said:

Hey my friend

10 years of Spring training tickets. Man that's tough to give up. Spring training is the best. Summer's coming. Young kids trying to make the team. It's just a great time.

See - I really think it's stories like that that will continue to occur until the bubble bursts. And they could do things about it today to fix it before it bursts. But Uptown is right. There are too many suckers out there whose lives revolve around this stuff for it to just go away over night.

Baseball has given me every reason to walk away from it since the no World Series year of 94 and I STILL can't just be done with it. (And here I am thinking I'm a pretty smart guy. NOPE!!!)

When I get to the point when I don't even want to road trip with the boys to go see a game, that's when I know I'll be completely done. I honestly hope they fix it before that day comes...

Fenwick said:

or...what I see happening (at least in my future), go to high school and college games.

I'll NEVER not love the sport. It's so simple and so complex, and so damn awesomely cool. I'll always want to watch and see it, at any level.

Fenwick said:

How many Americans will stop going to games, stop watching them on TV, stop buying sports-related items(posters, apparel, videogames, mugs, etc.), completely cut pro sports out of their lives? Not many. The four major sports(baseball and football being the most popular) are too ingrained in our culture. Shit, Super Bowl Sunday has become a national holiday.

JerseyKRS said:

No absolutely. I was only referring to being completely done on the professional level. The reason I can't pull myself away from it has nothing to do with the ungrateful assfaces playing it today. It has to do with my love for the game itself.