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PrintablePunkMistress said: jone70 said: Yeah, but you can have all that stuff without the piece of paper telling you you're married, right? (If you're not against co-habitation.) A grad school friend who got married last summer was recently visiting and she said essentially the same thing, "It's just different." I don't get it. If you trust someone enough to marry them and trust that you are not going to get divorced then why marry at all -- that trust should still be there without the paper, right? I mean, I get there are certain legal benefits (I guess) but I think you can do a will or power of attorney to grant them essentially the same rights and it's probably a lot easier to change. I'm not trying to pick on you personally by asking this stuff, but you said the same thing as my friend and I am wondering what makes it different other than the piece of paper. My simplistic answer is probably social conditioning. Getting married is what people do when they want to be together forever and raise a family together. It's a tradition with a long history and a lot of weight. It's not about "a piece of paper," but more wanting to be a part of that tradition and have that security. It also has something to do with the way the world views your relationship. We all love to say we don't give a fuck what others think, but really, most of us do, to a degree. Why do gay people fight for their right to marry? As you said, marriage won't make their relationships more loving or trusting. But it does lend a validity and a seriousness to the relationship in other people's eyes that, in most societies, only a marriage gets. Agreed. This is why I would consider getting married again. It's how our culture recognizes people as family. Married people are treated differently than people who are just cohabitating. And there are all kinds of legal benefits that go along with it.  "What's 'non-sequitur' mean? Do I look it up in a Fag-to-English dictionary?" | |
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tackam said: PunkMistress said: My simplistic answer is probably social conditioning. Getting married is what people do when they want to be together forever and raise a family together. It's a tradition with a long history and a lot of weight. It's not about "a piece of paper," but more wanting to be a part of that tradition and have that security. It also has something to do with the way the world views your relationship. We all love to say we don't give a fuck what others think, but really, most of us do, to a degree. Why do gay people fight for their right to marry? As you said, marriage won't make their relationships more loving or trusting. But it does lend a validity and a seriousness to the relationship in other people's eyes that, in most societies, only a marriage gets. Agreed. This is why I would consider getting married again. It's how our culture recognizes people as family. Married people are treated differently than people who are just cohabitating. And there are all kinds of legal benefits that go along with it. For me it means a 1 year visa (effectively 15 months) and a 20 minute hop over the border every 3 months that I can make into a nice day out to the seaside, instead of a flight every 3 months to stay somewhere 3 days and 2 nights to actually apply for a new 3 month visa each time. MY COUSIN WORKS IN A PHARMACY AND SHE SAID THEY ENEMA'D PRANCE INTO OBLIVION WITH FENTONILS!! | |
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tackam said: PunkMistress said: My simplistic answer is probably social conditioning. Getting married is what people do when they want to be together forever and raise a family together. It's a tradition with a long history and a lot of weight. It's not about "a piece of paper," but more wanting to be a part of that tradition and have that security. It also has something to do with the way the world views your relationship. We all love to say we don't give a fuck what others think, but really, most of us do, to a degree. Why do gay people fight for their right to marry? As you said, marriage won't make their relationships more loving or trusting. But it does lend a validity and a seriousness to the relationship in other people's eyes that, in most societies, only a marriage gets. Agreed. This is why I would consider getting married again. It's how our culture recognizes people as family. Married people are treated differently than people who are just cohabitating. And there are all kinds of legal benefits that go along with it.  I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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I don't know why I got married the 1st time around(temporary insanity) But I refuse to make the same mistake twice   "Bring friends, bring your children and bring foot spray 'cause it's gon' be funky." ~ Prince
A kiss on the lips, is betta than a knife in the back ~ Sheila E Darkness isn't the absence of light, it's the absence of U ~ Prince | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Well one thread deserves another.
Now in this day and age where: women have an equal opportunity to get a good education have an equally good opportunity to get a decent job are no longer marred by social expectations of sexual virtue can go to the sperm bank to get knocked up... Why are women wanting to get hitched? Half of marriages end in divorce, you will incur HIS debt, and after the divorce he's probably going to marry again and focus all his energies on the new wife and kids leaving you to struggle with your brood on your own. Plus it's a lot of work to be wifey, pal, girlfriend, momma, housekeeper, cook, laundromat, baby maker and accountant all at the same damn time. 
It's the dress and reception isn't it. 5 REASONS: 1. Cinderella 2. Snow White 3. Sleeping Beauty 4. The Princess & The Frog 5.  | |
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^ OMG     | |
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TonyVanDam said: DesireeNevermind said: Well one thread deserves another.
Now in this day and age where: women have an equal opportunity to get a good education have an equally good opportunity to get a decent job are no longer marred by social expectations of sexual virtue can go to the sperm bank to get knocked up... Why are women wanting to get hitched? Half of marriages end in divorce, you will incur HIS debt, and after the divorce he's probably going to marry again and focus all his energies on the new wife and kids leaving you to struggle with your brood on your own. Plus it's a lot of work to be wifey, pal, girlfriend, momma, housekeeper, cook, laundromat, baby maker and accountant all at the same damn time.
It's the dress and reception isn't it. 5 REASONS: 1. Cinderella 2. Snow White 3. Sleeping Beauty 4. The Princess & The Frog 5. 6. Larry King  |
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PunkMistress said: My simplistic answer is probably social conditioning. Getting married is what people do when they want to be together forever and raise a family together. It's a tradition with a long history and a lot of weight. It's not about "a piece of paper," but more wanting to be a part of that tradition and have that security. It also has something to do with the way the world views your relationship. We all love to say we don't give a fuck what others think, but really, most of us do, to a degree. Why do gay people fight for their right to marry? As you said, marriage won't make their relationships more loving or trusting. But it does lend a validity and a seriousness to the relationship in other people's eyes that, in most societies, only a marriage gets. Thanks for your explanation. I just have a really hard time understanding why tradition and a piece of paper are so important. (I am admittedly not into tradition, ancestry, family bonding, etc. so that might be part of it.) Can't one have all that stuff (be together forever, raise a family, have security) without being married? And conversely, being married doesn't guarantee those things. Perhaps gays wouldn't fight for the right to marry if they were granted the same legal benefits as married couples? Because, face it, a lot of people marry just for the legal benefits (green cards, health insurance qualification, etc.) and it has fuck all to do with the tradition and validation from society. tackam said: Agreed.
This is why I would consider getting married again. It's how our culture recognizes people as family. Married people are treated differently than people who are just cohabitating. And there are all kinds of legal benefits that go along with it. See I think that's such bullshit. (How that's what culture recognizes and treats people differently, not that you would remarry.) Just because "society/culture" decides that marriage is the acceptable way to be recognized as a family then people who buy into that (literally - the wedding business is huge) get benefits? (American) Culture also seems to have decided that American Idol and celebrity watching are more important than math and science education.  Look at all the marriages that are crap, but yet somehow culture deems that the people involved in them are better than people who co-habitate simply because they've signed a piece of paper? That's ridiculous. Why should people be rewarded (e.g. legal benefits) for this co-dependence of marriage? Shouldn't everyone have the same rights/benefits under law? Like it or not, the 'm' word also has religious overtones to it, when it's really just a legal contract. So why all the need for the other stuff, just make a legal binding contract and sign it. I don't see people throwing big celebrations when they sign their student loan contract or buy a car and those contracts sometimes last longer than marriages! 
clarification edit [Edited 4/21/10 13:45pm] The check. The string he dropped. The Mona Lisa. The musical notes taken out of a hat. The glass. The toy shotgun painting. The things he found. Therefore, everything seen–every object, that is, plus the process of looking at it–is a Duchamp. | |
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So why all the need for the other stuff, just make a legal binding contract and sign it. I don't see people throwing big celebrations when they sign their student loan contract or buy a car and those contracts sometimes last longer than marriages!
the awful truth!!! | |
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jone70 said: PunkMistress said: My simplistic answer is probably social conditioning. Getting married is what people do when they want to be together forever and raise a family together. It's a tradition with a long history and a lot of weight. It's not about "a piece of paper," but more wanting to be a part of that tradition and have that security. It also has something to do with the way the world views your relationship. We all love to say we don't give a fuck what others think, but really, most of us do, to a degree. Why do gay people fight for their right to marry? As you said, marriage won't make their relationships more loving or trusting. But it does lend a validity and a seriousness to the relationship in other people's eyes that, in most societies, only a marriage gets. Thanks for your explanation. I just have a really hard time understanding why tradition and a piece of paper are so important. (I am admittedly not into tradition, ancestry, family bonding, etc. so that might be part of it.) Can't one have all that stuff (be together forever, raise a family, have security) without being married? And conversely, being married doesn't guarantee those things. Perhaps gays wouldn't fight for the right to marry if they were granted the same legal benefits as married couples? Because, face it, a lot of people marry just for the legal benefits (green cards, health insurance qualification, etc.) and it has fuck all to do with the tradition and validation from society. tackam said: Agreed.
This is why I would consider getting married again. It's how our culture recognizes people as family. Married people are treated differently than people who are just cohabitating. And there are all kinds of legal benefits that go along with it. See I think that's such bullshit. (How that's what culture recognizes and treats people differently, not that you would remarry.) Just because "society/culture" decides that marriage is the acceptable way to be recognized as a family then people who buy into that (literally - the wedding business is huge) get benefits? (American) Culture also seems to have decided that American Idol and celebrity watching are more important than math and science education. Look at all the marriages that are crap, but yet somehow culture deems that the people involved in them are better than people who co-habitate simply because they've signed a piece of paper? That's ridiculous. Why should people be rewarded (e.g. legal benefits) for this co-dependence of marriage? Shouldn't everyone have the same rights/benefits under law? Like it or not, the 'm' word also has religious overtones to it, when it's really just a legal contract. So why all the need for the other stuff, just make a legal binding contract and sign it. I don't see people throwing big celebrations when they sign their student loan contract or buy a car and those contracts sometimes last longer than marriages!
clarification edit [Edited 4/21/10 13:45pm] The cultural things you mentioned (celebrity worship, American Idol) are fleeting, pop-culture phenomena. The institution of marriage not only predates these temporary, fluffy distractions, but predates America itself. So I don't think it holds up to say "fuck marriage, it's just something society decided is important, like Lady Gaga." People do enter into it for very personal, very sincere reasons, not just because they're being blind sheep. | |
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PunkMistress said: The cultural things you mentioned (celebrity worship, American Idol) are fleeting, pop-culture phenomena. The institution of marriage not only predates these temporary, fluffy distractions, but predates America itself. So did mythology/organized religion and some people couldn't care less about its supposed societal/cultural importance. So I don't think it holds up to say "fuck marriage, it's just something society decided is important, like Lady Gaga."
But it is. Because not all societies (even within the US) define marriage the same way. It's not universal. People do enter into it for very personal, very sincere reasons, not just because they're being blind sheep.
This, I do not doubt. The check. The string he dropped. The Mona Lisa. The musical notes taken out of a hat. The glass. The toy shotgun painting. The things he found. Therefore, everything seen–every object, that is, plus the process of looking at it–is a Duchamp. | |
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jone70 said: PunkMistress said: The cultural things you mentioned (celebrity worship, American Idol) are fleeting, pop-culture phenomena. The institution of marriage not only predates these temporary, fluffy distractions, but predates America itself. So did mythology/organized religion and some people couldn't care less about its supposed societal/cultural importance. True. I have no use at all for organized religion, but I understand that it's really important and has a very big role in a lot of people's lives. | |
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jone70 said: PunkMistress said: My simplistic answer is probably social conditioning. Getting married is what people do when they want to be together forever and raise a family together. It's a tradition with a long history and a lot of weight. It's not about "a piece of paper," but more wanting to be a part of that tradition and have that security. It also has something to do with the way the world views your relationship. We all love to say we don't give a fuck what others think, but really, most of us do, to a degree. Why do gay people fight for their right to marry? As you said, marriage won't make their relationships more loving or trusting. But it does lend a validity and a seriousness to the relationship in other people's eyes that, in most societies, only a marriage gets. Thanks for your explanation. I just have a really hard time understanding why tradition and a piece of paper are so important. (I am admittedly not into tradition, ancestry, family bonding, etc. so that might be part of it.) Can't one have all that stuff (be together forever, raise a family, have security) without being married? And conversely, being married doesn't guarantee those things. Perhaps gays wouldn't fight for the right to marry if they were granted the same legal benefits as married couples? Because, face it, a lot of people marry just for the legal benefits (green cards, health insurance qualification, etc.) and it has fuck all to do with the tradition and validation from society. tackam said: Agreed.
This is why I would consider getting married again. It's how our culture recognizes people as family. Married people are treated differently than people who are just cohabitating. And there are all kinds of legal benefits that go along with it. See I think that's such bullshit. (How that's what culture recognizes and treats people differently, not that you would remarry.) Just because "society/culture" decides that marriage is the acceptable way to be recognized as a family then people who buy into that (literally - the wedding business is huge) get benefits? (American) Culture also seems to have decided that American Idol and celebrity watching are more important than math and science education. Look at all the marriages that are crap, but yet somehow culture deems that the people involved in them are better than people who co-habitate simply because they've signed a piece of paper? That's ridiculous. Why should people be rewarded (e.g. legal benefits) for this co-dependence of marriage? Shouldn't everyone have the same rights/benefits under law? Like it or not, the 'm' word also has religious overtones to it, when it's really just a legal contract. So why all the need for the other stuff, just make a legal binding contract and sign it. I don't see people throwing big celebrations when they sign their student loan contract or buy a car and those contracts sometimes last longer than marriages!
clarification edit [Edited 4/21/10 13:45pm] Yeah, I don't think you're wrong about how it should be. I've just come to realize how it is.  "What's 'non-sequitur' mean? Do I look it up in a Fag-to-English dictionary?" | |
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1-Lack of confidence, that kind of "I need a man to carry on with my kids, problems, mortages, etc." attitude.  And once again, the paper provides that security from a legal point of view
2-The huge shot of egocentrism that the wedding offers: the dress, the champagne, the adulation, the applause, the presents, the photographer, the fancy haircut, etc. . 
The ties that bind are from the heart... [Edited 4/22/10 4:53am]  | |
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peacenlovealways said:[quote] uPtoWnNY said: 
WHAT....THE.....FUCK.....her folks actually paid for that shit.....jesus...
Interesting family , anyway I bet they all go to the nudist beach,...together [Edited 4/22/10 4:59am] | |
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JoeTyler said:[quote] peacenlovealways said: uPtoWnNY said:
WHAT....THE.....FUCK.....her folks actually paid for that shit.....jesus...
Interesting family , anyway I bet they all go to the nudist beach,...together
[Edited 4/22/10 4:59am] She has nice titties. | |
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PunkMistress said: JoeTyler said: Interesting family , anyway I bet they all go to the nudist beach,...together
[Edited 4/22/10 4:59am] She has nice titties. that's all I thought, too.  | |
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JoeTyler said: 1-Lack of confidence, that kind of "I need a man to carry on with my kids, problems, mortages, etc." attitude.
And once again, the paper provides that security from a legal point of view
2-The huge shot of egocentrism that the wedding offers: the dress, the champagne, the adulation, the applause, the presents, the photographer, the fancy haircut, etc. .
The ties that bind are from the heart... Interesting choice of words to carry on with "my kids", "my mortgage"..... So he doesn't live in the house and she conceived those kids by Immaculate Conception, uh? | |
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TD3 said: JoeTyler said: 1-Lack of confidence, that kind of "I need a man to carry on with my kids, problems, mortages, etc." attitude.
And once again, the paper provides that security from a legal point of view
2-The huge shot of egocentrism that the wedding offers: the dress, the champagne, the adulation, the applause, the presents, the photographer, the fancy haircut, etc. .
The ties that bind are from the heart... Interesting choice of words to carry on with "my kids", "my mortgage"..... So he doesn't live in the house and she conceived those kids by Immaculate Conception, uh? no, I meant :divorce  the man gets kicked out of the house and he'll probably lost the child custody (or, as someone has said, "he will probably care about her new wife's kids")...
of course, this is my opinion... [Edited 4/22/10 9:03am] | |
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