Harlepolis said:

his films also get accused of being a bit homophobic.

i don't think the film (or films) are necessarily sexist or homophobic so much as lot of kevin's characters tend to be overgrown 13 year old boys existing in adult bodies. i think you are meant to laugh at their immaturity instead of seeing it as a good thing. his trifecta of leads are typically a real asisine man-child best friend, the way more mature and intelligent girl, and the guy on the fence between the two, in love with her and wanting to be mature and adult, but held back by the man-child friend. clerks does it, chasing amy really deals with a lot, as does clerks 2, and zach and miri.

and in the end his smartest characters tend to be the women and the gay characters (particularly becky in clerks 2 and hooper in chasing), who exude intelligence and maturity in a way the straight guy bufoon characters never get close to.

i think for all the immature jokes along the way, overall the films do end up siding with the maturity aspect, and embracing it, and are very reverential towards women.

cborgman said:

I was going to say something like this too.

Harlepolis said:

watch clerks 2 next. it is FANTASTIC. one of the funniest movies i have ever seen. there is one scene that you as a film buff will get immediatly, and di e laughing. rosario is delicious, and her character becky is easily the single greatest female character in a smith movie. the dialogue is sheer perfection, and it really was a breakthrough in his direction. randall, dante, jay and sb are all at their best, the secondary characters are a riot, wanda sykes kills in her cameo, one of a few really good ones, and the donkey show is one of the funniest things i have ever seen onscreen.

Harlepolis said:

his films also get accused of being a bit homophobic.

i don't think the film (or films) are necessarily sexist or homophobic so much as lot of kevin's characters tend to be overgrown 13 year old boys existing in adult bodies. i think you are meant to laugh at their immaturity instead of seeing it as a good thing. his trifecta of leads are typically a real asisine man-child best friend, the way more mature and intelligent girl, and the guy on the fence between the two, in love with her and wanting to be mature and adult, but held back by the man-child friend. clerks does it, chasing amy really deals with a lot, as does clerks 2, and zach and miri.

and in the end his smartest characters tend to be the women and the gay characters (particularly becky in clerks 2 and hooper in chasing), who exude intelligence and maturity in a way the straight guy bufoon characters never get close to.

i think for all the immature jokes along the way, overall the films do end up siding with the maturity aspect, and embracing it, and are very reverential towards women.

cborgman said:

I think you hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't consider myself a HUGE fan, but after years of watching his movies, occasionally reading his blog and seeing a few of his "an evening with" dvds I think he's very gay positive and, like you say, reverential towards women. The way a man talks about and treats his wife/partner is always a good indicator, and he passes with flying colors in that arena.

The jokes are in teasing good fun.

cborgman said:

I just re-watched that scene in reply #46. That's a perfect example of taking existing sexist attitudes and literally questions them through a character.

cborgman said:

Listen, I'm living proof that all lesbians need is a serious deep dicking.

PunkMistress said:

i think banky is living proof that even straight guys need a serious deep dicking at least once in their lives. i love that in strike back, we see banky and hooper and they are now a couple, cementing that banky's male on male homophobia comes from his own denial of his sexuality.

when people learn to not compartmentalize and minimize sexuality, the world will become a much better place for it.

Harlepolis said:

watch clerks 2 next. it is FANTASTIC. one of the funniest movies i have ever seen. there is one scene that you as a film buff will get immediatly, and di e laughing. rosario is delicious, and her character becky is easily the single greatest female character in a smith movie. the dialogue is sheer perfection, and it really was a breakthrough in his direction. randall, dante, jay and sb are all at their best, the secondary characters are a riot, wanda sykes kills in her cameo, one of a few really good ones, and the donkey show is one of the funniest things i have ever seen onscreen.

cborgman said:

You know I was being totally facetious, right?

Mallrats, FTW.

cborgman said:

I didn't know recognize the connection untill you pointed out earlier

Did any of you guys see 'Cop Out' yet?

It's interesting to me because it's the first film that Kevin has directed but not written himself.

I didn't see it yet, but I plan to.

Also a couple of things I forgot to add to my Kevin Smith fandom list earlier - I also own all three "Evening With Kevin Smith" DVDs, and the disturbing horror-clown movie "Vulgar" - written and directed by Kev's friend Bryan Johnson, produced by Kevin and Scott, and starring Brian O' Halloran (Dante from Clerks) and Ethan Suplee (best known as Willam Black in Mallrats and Randy in My Name Is Earl). Also, I own a movie called "Catch & Release" starring Jennifer Garner, and Kev is in the movie too.

You pretty much have to be a big Kevin Smith fan to have even seen either of those two movies.....they're both pretty bad, lol.

What really freaked me out about "Vulgar" is how thin Kevin is in that movie! He's not thin, but comparitively....it's the thinnest i've ever seen him and I almost didn't recognise him. Pretty sure he was beard-less too.

Militant said:

i didn't like either. vulgar is little more than that, and catch is boring.

i saw cop out, and i didn't love it. i thought it was on par with mallrats.

For me, 'Mallrats' is a little above mediocre. That's kind of what I expected from 'Cop Out' to be honest.

And yeah, agreed on Vulgar and Catch. Even though I still have both DVDs.....I doubt I will ever watch either of them again. Catch bored the shit out of me.

cborgman said:

I think he was involved in the movie for the sake of helping his friend. I wanted to see it bu after reading some of the reviews, I don't think I will.

What's up with Jason Mews these days? Is he still lost?

Stax said:

He's on Twitter, so he's around.