I admit it. I always thought Asian cultures were superior when it came to education. That's not to say that Asian's are intrinsically smarter...just that they have a system of education that makes them more learned.

Being in Thailand for just this last 3 or 4 months had shattered that illusion completely. Thais are terribly at math! About as bad as Americans are, and that's pretty bad! But the college kids I have are aslo pretty bad at history, economics, and all manor of things.

Now I was a really bad student in high school. My grades were terrible. So, I'm not picking on any one culture.

Moreover, in America, our history books go through a very rigorous political process to insure large corporations, influential political entities, and even religious institutions are not offended by the textbook that ends up on your kid's desk. Ergo, the history that we're taught is....one sided. There is little or no mention whatsoever of Hellen Keller, the staunch socialist. Rather, we only learn that she was blind and deaf. There's no mention of President Truman being a racist, only that he was the first President since Lincoln to further civil rights issues (which he did not out of any sense of altruism).

At any rate, what I'm getting at is that we are being force fed education-light, and our populations are getting more and more dumb.

And I think this is a global phenomenon now. The french and dutch students here don't appear to be any more spectacular at anything but literature and politics, which I think is something they get from their own accord.



Is the education system were you are improving or getting worse? Are the kids graduating high school now at the same level as your generation?

I'd be REALLY interested to hear from those in Europe.

I suspect the average Thai uni graduate is not as intelligent as a Brit. Standards seem pretty low here, unfortunately. Except for workload I have a nagging suspicion that degree level is about the equivalent of A-levels in the UK. There are still exceptional students though, of course.

Fauxie said:

As for back in the UK, I've no idea what it's like now, but I will say that it appeared to me the gap between GCSE level (high school) and A-Level (sixth form college) was widening before, as, and just after I went through the system, so that A-Levels were getting more demanding, to better prepare students for university (which is a good thing, I think). That may now have changed though. As for university, I didn't think the lectures or small class teaching were any great shakes during my brief periods of higher learning (and probably a little less demanding than the hardcore brain-fuck I was expecting), though facilities and technology were bloody excellent.

Fauxie said:

is all that anything like Hogwarts??

The High school that our kids/go went to has far better educational programs then the HS I attended

I grew up in a large area with so called "better" schools ... our kids go to a smaller school in an area that is very light in population and much poorer ( is that a fucking word ? )

Our kids were all in AP ( advanced placement ) classes and honour classes ~ which MY school system did't have for advanced intelligent kids ~ our kids also get free college courses through high school yrs ~ where that was never offered in my school ~ I graduated in 82 ~

So I see improvements ... but nationwide I am not sure

What used to be a joke is now seen in business documents - business documents.

And yes, I'm talking about that formerly funny/now annoying internet tradition of spelling "loser" as "looser".

But on a different note, the high school my kids go to is populated by the kids of rocket scientists. I'll put our kids' curriculum and educational ability up against anyone in the world.

RodeoSchro said:

I know our youngest 2 placed top 5% in the nation and Jess tests higher then most returning 2nd yr college students ( and that was in the beginning of her 11th grad yr ) She is also in the tip 2 % of NC ...

now again as a nation overall I am not sure things are improving ...

Okay ~ my typos suck ... must have coffee

My 14 year old son goes to a high school with about 2000 other kids. He is absolutely drowning. He's in 9th grade and is failing everything. They need 25 credits to graduate and he has 1.5!

I've been meeting with the school psychologist, social worker, counselor and assistant principal to see what's going on. He's had an assessment test recently to see where's he at, academically. The test showed that he only knows basic math. Adding and subtracting simple numbers. He can't multiply, divide, or even subtract triple digit numbers! After all this, the school psychologist says there is no warrant for a special education test because she feels that he is just "unmotivated and unorganized."

No kids in my city get left behind a grade anymore. Each kids moves on regardless of their grades or ability.

I've taken him to see a regular psychologist not affiliated with the school and he seems to think that my son has Aspergers syndrome, which I also think. He does terribly in school, yet is obsessed with music and is a wiz on the guitar, drums and bass. He also is exceptionally talented with drawing and has taught himself many complicated computer music mixing programs. He also has a really hard time communicating with people, which is a sign of Aspergers.

Anyway, I look at it like this...He can stay in school till he's 18, failing every year and not getting his diploma, or I can pull him out and homeschool him. Of course the school is against homeschooling students because they will lose their $7,000 or $9,000 they get per kid.

I will have to reteach him many things and then gear his teaching towards his talents and interests. My goal is to have my son actually be able to live on his own someday and support a family. He needs to learn life skills. Public school has done nothing for him.

If I were in High School today I'd be at the head of the class and I was only a B/C+ student.

Education has really fallen off in this country. The worse part is that people don't care or even seem proud of their ignorance. Sad
Here's an idea, ...
PAY PEOPLE THAT HAVE ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT OCCUPATIONS WHAT THEY ARE WORTH! You get what you pay for and maybe higher caliber teachers will actually teach students instead of trying to fuck them and send them naked phone pics.
Do we really want a bunch of nimrods running our society when we get old and grey???

dustysgirl said:

That's the first thing I was asking myself when you said he was 14 and didn't know how to divide. How was he promoted?

I honestly think that if you shrunk the classes considerably (no more than 15 kids per class), and increased the counselors and meetings with parents, we'd improve the situation significantly.

As far as him being unmotivated and unorganized---well duh... All kids are at first! The school needs to find methods for motivating him. Kids respond to the proper amount of attention.

Are you up for the task of homeschooling?
I used to be dead against it, but considering how poor the public education system is, I'm more and more for it, so long as the rigor is tough enough. It's hard for a 14 year old to 'switch' from one routine to another.

I wish you the best though!

And I agree with your statements on public education. Were are you located?

TheVoid said:

I totally agree with you when it comes to reducing the number of students per class to 15, better yet 11 but that is financially impossible over here.
And yes, there seems to be a similar pattern all over the world...and a lot of countries look to the east to find a solution but believe me, I have worked with Thai people, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese etc. in the past 10 years and while there are clearly huge differences between the East and the West when it comes to discipline and determination, the curriculum is not necessarily better in the East.
A lot of Japanese education scientist even warn us not to follow their system because of the high suicide rates there and because it is only memorized stuff, and that doesn´t really equal critical thinking. A lot of Japanese students know very little about Japan´s history, let alone the history of other countries.

It´s amazing that so many countries seem to have the same problems...except for a few Scandinavian countries.

RodeoSchro said:

You can´t imagine how many times I have to tell Germans how to spell "loser".
They always spell it "looser" over here, even in respected newspapers and magazines.

joseph8 said:

There´s only so much a teacher can do when the parents are unemployed, drunk, aggressive or barely able to articulate themselves. I agree with you that teachers should be paid much better but that is only one part of the problem.I think a lot of it has to do with the complicated times we´re living in, the social climate, money and changing gender roles. It´s often male students who rebel against school and who seem to be very confused about their future role in today´s society.

KoolEaze said:

I know for a damned fact none of the Asian countries are taught critical thinking. They simply don't understand literature. They don't 'get it'.

When I ask them to read a passage and explain what the story is 'really about' they simply regurgitate the 'events' in the story. In other words, Lord of The Flies is really about kids who are on an island and fight each other---they don't look any deeper than that.

About the only thing I can say that's superior is that the Chinese and Japanese seem to have a very vigorous math curriculum leading up to college. Thais--nah.


As far as Germans, isn't your history pretty bad there? I recall being told, though it was by an American, that Germans don't really know much about their history---kind of dangerous considering Germany's prominent role is several pretty big budget wars.

TheVoid said:

No, quite the opposite....the German history curriculum focuses on WWI and WW II and the Nazis so much that most kids can´t even stand those topics anymore...but saying that the Germans don´t know much about their history is not true.
Then again, you may have a point when it comes to the younger generation, born in 1992 or later.

Luckily, I live in Michigan, which is very lenient in regards to homeschooling. Basically, I can do whatever I want, but my plan is to stick to the state of Michigan's curriculum. Plus, like I said, I will have to reteach him some things (like regular math).

Plus, I will be adding my own things like basic sewing, cooking, family budgeting, plant science and gardening (I'm a certified master gardener). We are going to work not only on world and USA history, but local history as well. Our town is small, but General Custer was from here, and there were a lot of battles here during the War of 1812 and a lot of American Indian history as well.

I've joined a few local home school groups so that he can do activities with other teens like swimming and field trips and stuff.

I'd like to find someone to teach him music theory, but don't know anyone. My husband, though not Arabic, can speak the language, and I'm going to have him teach him a rudimentary understanding of the language.

There's just so much we can do. The possibilities are endless! If you were to ask me when I was 27 if I wanted to home school my kids, I would have looked at you like you were crazy! But now, I view it as a great opportunity to actually mold my child and develop a close relationship with him, not to mention, help him become a confident adult. I'm not going to be around forever, and I want him to to have a successful life, full of opportunities.

In Michigan, you can homeschool your child and when you decide he's ready for a diploma, you can issue it yourself. You can then have your child take the Michigan Merit Examination at the local high school and apply with the state to get an official diploma seal. These diplomas are accepted at various colleges, including my local community college.

Oh, I forgot to mention, my son has zero friends at school and gets teased by some other kids. With his Asperger's, he does not know how to deal with situations like that. Actually, before I told our psychologist that I was thinking of homeschooling, he said he would advise pulling him out of public school. He said it is terrible for kids like mine. Teachers label him as "lazy" or a "daydreamer," and kids make fun of him for being quiet.

On another note...Last year my oldest son got into some trouble and the youth county prosecutor told me the high school was basically a drug haven (talking about prescription pills). And just two weeks ago, my neighbor's daughter got expelled from there for taking nude pictures of herself in the school bathroom and sending them around on her phone! That school's a mess, and I can't wait to get my child out of there!

Mach said:

Just goes to show: it's genetic.

Cinnie said:

I sucked in school in the academic classes ( until college ) they had to push me through ~ I simply flat out refusd to do the work or follow the rules because I was so bored there were no AP classes there for the smarter students to excell - we had to sit and wait for everyone to catch up

I wish now I had had a different attitude and pulled the 3-4 yrs straight A's


okay ~ so i'll agree that genetics may factor in ~ Their Dad is BRILLIANT !!
I think though that besides the amount of life/home schooling intentional parents give, that the school system in this tiny area is advanced ... hell in out tiny "back woods red neck " southern area ~ our High School was the 1st in the area/satae to build/add a modern windmill/turbine to power the school

my friend that lives outside Atlanta, her modern growing county, their schools have NONE