meow85 said: DesireeNevermind said: I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space.
I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. @ "oven" Co-sign everything you said though. It isn't so much that the world as a whole is overpopulated. The problem is that a certain section of the population (us) uses a hugely disproportionate chunk of the available resources. A 21-member family the third world would have a FAR lesser impact than a 21-member family in North America. Not that I think anyone should be pumping out that many babies, mind. It's rough as hell on a woman's body to be in a constant state of pregnancy like that. I totally believe that to be true. | |
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ZombieKitten said: DesireeNevermind said: I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space.
I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! No, we're not. Being pregnant even under normal circumstances is pretty hard on the body. There's a reason there are so many programs and initiatives in third world countries to teach women to space out their pregnancies and have fewer children. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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ZombieKitten said: DesireeNevermind said: I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space.
I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! nawww I can't do it more than twice i think. I've seen those birthing videos!!! and the way the boobs just triple in size and ache is just.....nahhhhh!!!!! This scientist ( I guess he was a scientist) said that the human female should be pregnant for a year. That human babies are born too soon! | |
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NDRU said: ZombieKitten said: apparently there is no shortage of resources, it's just there is no focus on the distribution of it. Even water. that is true right now, but do you think that will continue to be true as the population increases? I read in New Scientist magazine that it wasn't an imminent problem as politicans are making things out to be IF infrastructure is put in place and ways to transport goods are concentrated on. (if we do nothing - as we do now - to distribute, then yes, HUGE problem - but you know how it is, if someone can make a huge profit doing it, it WILL get done) Like eugenics and stuff is never going to be required to sort it out like they used to believe 50 years ago | |
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meow85 said: ZombieKitten said: women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! No, we're not. Being pregnant even under normal circumstances is pretty hard on the body. There's a reason there are so many programs and initiatives in third world countries to teach women to space out their pregnancies and have fewer children. imagine if you're having multiples (triplets/quads) or a brood of 8 like that Octomom. her ribs friggin broke when she was pregnant and she was bed ridden for the latter part of her pregnancy. | |
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ZombieKitten said: NDRU said: that is true right now, but do you think that will continue to be true as the population increases? I read in New Scientist magazine that it wasn't an imminent problem as politicans are making things out to be IF infrastructure is put in place and ways to transport goods are concentrated on. (if we do nothing - as we do now - to distribute, then yes, HUGE problem - but you know how it is, if someone can make a huge profit doing it, it WILL get done) Like eugenics and stuff is never going to be required to sort it out like they used to believe 50 years ago I think we in the first world need to drastically re-evaluate our consumption. On the whole, we aren't having that many babies compared to global figures, but we go through a lot of resources we don't really need, and much of it is waste. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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DesireeNevermind said: meow85 said: No, we're not. Being pregnant even under normal circumstances is pretty hard on the body. There's a reason there are so many programs and initiatives in third world countries to teach women to space out their pregnancies and have fewer children. imagine if you're having multiples (triplets/quads) or a brood of 8 like that Octomom. her ribs friggin broke when she was pregnant and she was bed ridden for the latter part of her pregnancy. Scary. I want kids, but I hope I never have more than one at a time. Thank God twins don't run in my family. [Edited 3/3/10 14:44pm] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: ZombieKitten said: I read in New Scientist magazine that it wasn't an imminent problem as politicans are making things out to be IF infrastructure is put in place and ways to transport goods are concentrated on. (if we do nothing - as we do now - to distribute, then yes, HUGE problem - but you know how it is, if someone can make a huge profit doing it, it WILL get done) Like eugenics and stuff is never going to be required to sort it out like they used to believe 50 years ago I think we in the first world need to drastically re-evaluate our consumption. On the whole, we aren't having that many babies compared to global figures, but we go through a lot of resources we don't really need, and much of it is waste. this is absolutely true. Unfortunately the trend seems to be the opposite, that countries like China are all getting big cars and polluting on a scale comparable to the US (or larger), rather than the US polluting less. But it can happen, it just isn't really happening very fast. Like ZK said, maybe if the money is to be made there it can happen faster. [Edited 3/3/10 14:50pm] My Legacy
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meow85 said: ZombieKitten said: women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! No, we're not. Being pregnant even under normal circumstances is pretty hard on the body. There's a reason there are so many programs and initiatives in third world countries to teach women to space out their pregnancies and have fewer children. I'd argue that has more to do with other things docs from the west step in to ensure a) less women and infants die during childbirth (and as a result of complications) for humanitarian reasons and programs put into place for b) controlling population because infrastructure is not there to support that kind of "uncontrolled" growth 2 kind of contradictory efforts also, the traditions of pre-menarche brides in many cultures is one that goes AGAINST nature. YES, in those cases it's NOT normal for little girls to be having babies and it is extremely dangerous anyway, I'm no expert - I read some articles and books (probably opinion pieces with consultation from "experts" but I can't remember sources now) | |
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meow85 said: ZombieKitten said: I read in New Scientist magazine that it wasn't an imminent problem as politicans are making things out to be IF infrastructure is put in place and ways to transport goods are concentrated on. (if we do nothing - as we do now - to distribute, then yes, HUGE problem - but you know how it is, if someone can make a huge profit doing it, it WILL get done) Like eugenics and stuff is never going to be required to sort it out like they used to believe 50 years ago I think we in the first world need to drastically re-evaluate our consumption. On the whole, we aren't having that many babies compared to global figures, but we go through a lot of resources we don't really need, and much of it is waste. to include shipping it out to those who can't get to it (we apparently produce more than enough food to feed everyone in the world) it's not economically viable right now, but put some incentives in place (like those carbon offsets you can buy) and it can be MADE viable | |
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ZombieKitten said: meow85 said: I think we in the first world need to drastically re-evaluate our consumption. On the whole, we aren't having that many babies compared to global figures, but we go through a lot of resources we don't really need, and much of it is waste. to include shipping it out to those who can't get to it (we apparently produce more than enough food to feed everyone in the world) it's not economically viable right now, but put some incentives in place (like those carbon offsets you can buy) and it can be MADE viable We need to develop some kind of approach wherein resources are both more evenly distributed, and those of us who are the global "haves" re-think what we consider needs. Just think of the number of people who own more than one car or drive when they could easily walk, for example. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: ZombieKitten said: to include shipping it out to those who can't get to it (we apparently produce more than enough food to feed everyone in the world) it's not economically viable right now, but put some incentives in place (like those carbon offsets you can buy) and it can be MADE viable We need to develop some kind of approach wherein resources are both more evenly distributed, and those of us who are the global "haves" re-think what we consider needs. Just think of the number of people who own more than one car or drive when they could easily walk, for example. yup once it becomes the socially acceptable thing to do (ie. gala fundraiser parties, you don't do them because it's the right thing to do, you do them to be SEEN to be doing the right thing) it will get done | |
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meow85 said: ZombieKitten said: to include shipping it out to those who can't get to it (we apparently produce more than enough food to feed everyone in the world) it's not economically viable right now, but put some incentives in place (like those carbon offsets you can buy) and it can be MADE viable We need to develop some kind of approach wherein resources are both more evenly distributed, and those of us who are the global "haves" re-think what we consider needs. Just think of the number of people who own more than one car or drive when they could easily walk, for example. also some way to re-use parts. I can't stand to see how much we throw away, such as computers & electronic equipment And recycling has come a long way, but still we can't recycle a pizza box because it has some cheese on it? what a waste I get about 4 phone books a year and haven't opened any of them. Colorado just failed to pass a bill that fined phone book companies who gave out books to people who don't want them. So we're required to have these 1000 page books every year that we don't want. I don't even have a land line anymore. Recycling is nice, but what about re-using milk bottles like we used to? Soy milk comes in non-recyclable boxes. and on and on... My Legacy
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NDRU said: meow85 said: We need to develop some kind of approach wherein resources are both more evenly distributed, and those of us who are the global "haves" re-think what we consider needs. Just think of the number of people who own more than one car or drive when they could easily walk, for example. also some way to re-use parts. I can't stand to see how much we throw away, such as computers & electronic equipment And recycling has come a long way, but still we can't recycle a pizza box because it has some cheese on it? what a waste I get about 4 phone books a year and haven't opened any of them. Colorado just failed to pass a bill that fined phone book companies who gave out books to people who don't want them. So we're required to have these 1000 page books every year that we don't want. I don't even have a land line anymore. Recycling is nice, but what about re-using milk bottles like we used to? Soy milk comes in non-recyclable boxes. and on and on... I didn't know that, they haven't said anything to us about that and phone books we get 5 each year, each one 4" thick - NEVER do I look in those things | |
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ZombieKitten said: NDRU said: also some way to re-use parts. I can't stand to see how much we throw away, such as computers & electronic equipment And recycling has come a long way, but still we can't recycle a pizza box because it has some cheese on it? what a waste I get about 4 phone books a year and haven't opened any of them. Colorado just failed to pass a bill that fined phone book companies who gave out books to people who don't want them. So we're required to have these 1000 page books every year that we don't want. I don't even have a land line anymore. Recycling is nice, but what about re-using milk bottles like we used to? Soy milk comes in non-recyclable boxes. and on and on... I didn't know that, they haven't said anything to us about that and phone books we get 5 each year, each one 4" thick - NEVER do I look in those things I put my pizza boxes in the recycling, but I know they've said not to put anything in there that is dirty from food, specifically pizza boxes My Legacy
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NDRU said: ZombieKitten said: I didn't know that, they haven't said anything to us about that and phone books we get 5 each year, each one 4" thick - NEVER do I look in those things I put my pizza boxes in the recycling, but I know they've said not to put anything in there that is dirty from food, specifically pizza boxes oh oops | |
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ZombieKitten said: NDRU said: I put my pizza boxes in the recycling, but I know they've said not to put anything in there that is dirty from food, specifically pizza boxes oh oops yeah I don't mind making that mistake, I can't bring myself to throw it away, cheese & grease or no My Legacy
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NDRU said: ZombieKitten said: oh oops yeah I don't mind making that mistake, I can't bring myself to throw it away, cheese & grease or no no I mean ME they probably told us that too and NEVER have I more than scraped out stuff out of jars, I was probably meant to WASH it, wasn't I? | |
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^If Im washing a jar Im keeping the damn thing. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. | |
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lazycrockett said: ^If Im washing a jar Im keeping the damn thing.
true, and not a bad idea actually. recycling must use a lot of energy. we buy tupperware, and recycle perfectly good jars & takeout containers Attempting to wash ziploc bags never was worth it for me, though My Legacy
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Ok....
Is plastic or is plastic NOT recyclable? Or is it certain types of plastic? Easily recyclable materials aluminum (except unclean foil) paper (all ) glass (except bulbs and mirrors) areosol cans tin I think the above gets further sorted by whether ink, caps/tops, and chemicals are attached. | |
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NDRU said: lazycrockett said: ^If Im washing a jar Im keeping the damn thing.
true, and not a bad idea actually. recycling must use a lot of energy. we buy tupperware, and recycle perfectly good jars & takeout containers Attempting to wash ziploc bags never was worth it for me, though I wash and reuse bags if nothing too sticky or messy was in it | |
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in some states if unwashed material is in the container the "junk" it all.
It is sad to know that people do not understand how to recycle. Our landfills are full of recyclable material. | |
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WE DAMN SURE DON'T KNOW HOW TO CORRECTLY RECYCLE WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE THIS!
breaks your heart. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: WE DAMN SURE DON'T KNOW HOW TO CORRECTLY RECYCLE WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE THIS!
breaks your heart. What about the computer parts / electronics they are dumping UNREAL! | |
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I watched the special features for the X-Files movie. The movie was horrible but the director talked about how he hated the film industry's waste
They create huge sets that get thrown away, and he said just water bottles alone were numbering in the hundreds every day. Sure, they recycle them, but how much energy does it take to recycle vs. drinking out of a reusable cup? My Legacy
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the duggars recycle and buy things second hand LOVE HARD. | |
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Evvy said: the duggars recycle and buy things second hand
they have so many children they can buy it once and keep passing it down to the smallest one | |
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drgnfly said: Evvy said: the duggars recycle and buy things second hand
they have so many children they can buy it once and keep passing it down to the smallest one So true! And that is probably exactly what they do. RIP, mom. I will forever miss and love you. | |
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drgnfly said: Evvy said: the duggars recycle and buy things second hand
they have so many children they can buy it once and keep passing it down to the smallest one waste not, want not we can actually learn from them | |
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