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Reply #180 posted 03/03/10 2:36pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

meow85 said:

DesireeNevermind said:

I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space. shrug

I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. confused

falloff @ "oven"

Co-sign everything you said though. It isn't so much that the world as a whole is overpopulated. The problem is that a certain section of the population (us) uses a hugely disproportionate chunk of the available resources. A 21-member family the third world would have a FAR lesser impact than a 21-member family in North America. Not that I think anyone should be pumping out that many babies, mind. It's rough as hell on a woman's body to be in a constant state of pregnancy like that.




nod I totally believe that to be true.
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Reply #181 posted 03/03/10 2:36pm

meow85

avatar

ZombieKitten said:

DesireeNevermind said:

I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space. shrug

I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. confused


women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding nod
thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! nutty

No, we're not.

Being pregnant even under normal circumstances is pretty hard on the body. There's a reason there are so many programs and initiatives in third world countries to teach women to space out their pregnancies and have fewer children.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #182 posted 03/03/10 2:38pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

ZombieKitten said:

DesireeNevermind said:

I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space. shrug

I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. confused


women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding nod
thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! nutty





shake nawww I can't do it more than twice i think. I've seen those birthing videos!!! and the way the boobs just triple in size and ache is just.....nahhhhh!!!!!

This scientist ( I guess he was a scientist) said that the human female should be pregnant for a year. That human babies are born too soon! eek
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Reply #183 posted 03/03/10 2:39pm

ZombieKitten

NDRU said:

ZombieKitten said:



apparently there is no shortage of resources, it's just there is no focus on the distribution of it. Even water.


that is true right now, but do you think that will continue to be true as the population increases?


I read in New Scientist magazine geek that it wasn't an imminent problem as politicans are making things out to be IF infrastructure is put in place and ways to transport goods are concentrated on.

(if we do nothing - as we do now - to distribute, then yes, HUGE problem - but you know how it is, if someone can make a huge profit doing it, it WILL get done)

Like eugenics and stuff is never going to be required to sort it out like they used to believe 50 years ago
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Reply #184 posted 03/03/10 2:42pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

meow85 said:

ZombieKitten said:



women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding nod
thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! nutty

No, we're not.

Being pregnant even under normal circumstances is pretty hard on the body. There's a reason there are so many programs and initiatives in third world countries to teach women to space out their pregnancies and have fewer children.





imagine if you're having multiples (triplets/quads) or a brood of 8 like that Octomom. her ribs friggin broke when she was pregnant and she was bed ridden for the latter part of her pregnancy.
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Reply #185 posted 03/03/10 2:43pm

meow85

avatar

ZombieKitten said:

NDRU said:



that is true right now, but do you think that will continue to be true as the population increases?


I read in New Scientist magazine geek that it wasn't an imminent problem as politicans are making things out to be IF infrastructure is put in place and ways to transport goods are concentrated on.

(if we do nothing - as we do now - to distribute, then yes, HUGE problem - but you know how it is, if someone can make a huge profit doing it, it WILL get done)

Like eugenics and stuff is never going to be required to sort it out like they used to believe 50 years ago



I think we in the first world need to drastically re-evaluate our consumption. On the whole, we aren't having that many babies compared to global figures, but we go through a lot of resources we don't really need, and much of it is waste. disbelief
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #186 posted 03/03/10 2:43pm

meow85

avatar

DesireeNevermind said:

meow85 said:


No, we're not.

Being pregnant even under normal circumstances is pretty hard on the body. There's a reason there are so many programs and initiatives in third world countries to teach women to space out their pregnancies and have fewer children.





imagine if you're having multiples (triplets/quads) or a brood of 8 like that Octomom. her ribs friggin broke when she was pregnant and she was bed ridden for the latter part of her pregnancy.

shake Scary.


I want kids, but I hope I never have more than one at a time. Thank God twins don't run in my family. pray
[Edited 3/3/10 14:44pm]
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Reply #187 posted 03/03/10 2:50pm

NDRU

avatar

meow85 said:

ZombieKitten said:



I read in New Scientist magazine geek that it wasn't an imminent problem as politicans are making things out to be IF infrastructure is put in place and ways to transport goods are concentrated on.

(if we do nothing - as we do now - to distribute, then yes, HUGE problem - but you know how it is, if someone can make a huge profit doing it, it WILL get done)

Like eugenics and stuff is never going to be required to sort it out like they used to believe 50 years ago



I think we in the first world need to drastically re-evaluate our consumption. On the whole, we aren't having that many babies compared to global figures, but we go through a lot of resources we don't really need, and much of it is waste. disbelief


this is absolutely true. Unfortunately the trend seems to be the opposite, that countries like China are all getting big cars and polluting on a scale comparable to the US (or larger), rather than the US polluting less.

But it can happen, it just isn't really happening very fast. Like ZK said, maybe if the money is to be made there it can happen faster.
[Edited 3/3/10 14:50pm]
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Reply #188 posted 03/03/10 2:52pm

ZombieKitten

meow85 said:

ZombieKitten said:



women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding nod
thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! nutty

No, we're not.

Being pregnant even under normal circumstances is pretty hard on the body. There's a reason there are so many programs and initiatives in third world countries to teach women to space out their pregnancies and have fewer children.


I'd argue that has more to do with other things
docs from the west step in to ensure
a) less women and infants die during childbirth (and as a result of complications) for humanitarian reasons
and programs put into place for b) controlling population because infrastructure is not there to support that kind of "uncontrolled" growth

2 kind of contradictory efforts

also, the traditions of pre-menarche brides in many cultures is one that goes AGAINST nature. YES, in those cases it's NOT normal for little girls to be having babies and it is extremely dangerous cry

shrug anyway, I'm no expert - I read some articles and books (probably opinion pieces with consultation from "experts" but I can't remember sources now)
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Reply #189 posted 03/03/10 2:54pm

ZombieKitten

meow85 said:

ZombieKitten said:



I read in New Scientist magazine geek that it wasn't an imminent problem as politicans are making things out to be IF infrastructure is put in place and ways to transport goods are concentrated on.

(if we do nothing - as we do now - to distribute, then yes, HUGE problem - but you know how it is, if someone can make a huge profit doing it, it WILL get done)

Like eugenics and stuff is never going to be required to sort it out like they used to believe 50 years ago



I think we in the first world need to drastically re-evaluate our consumption. On the whole, we aren't having that many babies compared to global figures, but we go through a lot of resources we don't really need, and much of it is waste. disbelief


to include shipping it out to those who can't get to it
(we apparently produce more than enough food to feed everyone in the world)

it's not economically viable right now, but put some incentives in place
(like those carbon offsets you can buy) and it can be MADE viable nod
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Reply #190 posted 03/03/10 3:04pm

meow85

avatar

ZombieKitten said:

meow85 said:




I think we in the first world need to drastically re-evaluate our consumption. On the whole, we aren't having that many babies compared to global figures, but we go through a lot of resources we don't really need, and much of it is waste. disbelief


to include shipping it out to those who can't get to it
(we apparently produce more than enough food to feed everyone in the world)

it's not economically viable right now, but put some incentives in place
(like those carbon offsets you can buy) and it can be MADE viable nod

nod

We need to develop some kind of approach wherein resources are both more evenly distributed, and those of us who are the global "haves" re-think what we consider needs. Just think of the number of people who own more than one car or drive when they could easily walk, for example. eek
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #191 posted 03/03/10 3:08pm

ZombieKitten

meow85 said:

ZombieKitten said:



to include shipping it out to those who can't get to it
(we apparently produce more than enough food to feed everyone in the world)

it's not economically viable right now, but put some incentives in place
(like those carbon offsets you can buy) and it can be MADE viable nod

nod

We need to develop some kind of approach wherein resources are both more evenly distributed, and those of us who are the global "haves" re-think what we consider needs. Just think of the number of people who own more than one car or drive when they could easily walk, for example. eek

yup
once it becomes the socially acceptable thing to do (ie. gala fundraiser parties, you don't do them because it's the right thing to do, you do them to be SEEN to be doing the right thing) it will get done
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Reply #192 posted 03/03/10 3:09pm

NDRU

avatar

meow85 said:

ZombieKitten said:



to include shipping it out to those who can't get to it
(we apparently produce more than enough food to feed everyone in the world)

it's not economically viable right now, but put some incentives in place
(like those carbon offsets you can buy) and it can be MADE viable nod

nod

We need to develop some kind of approach wherein resources are both more evenly distributed, and those of us who are the global "haves" re-think what we consider needs. Just think of the number of people who own more than one car or drive when they could easily walk, for example. eek


also some way to re-use parts. I can't stand to see how much we throw away, such as computers & electronic equipment

And recycling has come a long way, but still we can't recycle a pizza box because it has some cheese on it? shake what a waste

I get about 4 phone books a year and haven't opened any of them. Colorado just failed to pass a bill that fined phone book companies who gave out books to people who don't want them. So we're required to have these 1000 page books every year that we don't want. I don't even have a land line anymore. shake

Recycling is nice, but what about re-using milk bottles like we used to? Soy milk comes in non-recyclable boxes.

and on and on...
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Reply #193 posted 03/03/10 3:11pm

ZombieKitten

NDRU said:

meow85 said:


nod

We need to develop some kind of approach wherein resources are both more evenly distributed, and those of us who are the global "haves" re-think what we consider needs. Just think of the number of people who own more than one car or drive when they could easily walk, for example. eek


also some way to re-use parts. I can't stand to see how much we throw away, such as computers & electronic equipment

And recycling has come a long way, but still we can't recycle a pizza box because it has some cheese on it? shake what a waste

I get about 4 phone books a year and haven't opened any of them. Colorado just failed to pass a bill that fined phone book companies who gave out books to people who don't want them. So we're required to have these 1000 page books every year that we don't want. I don't even have a land line anymore. shake

Recycling is nice, but what about re-using milk bottles like we used to? Soy milk comes in non-recyclable boxes.

and on and on...


I didn't know that, they haven't said anything to us about that confused
and phone books dead we get 5 each year, each one 4" thick - NEVER do I look in those things wacky
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Reply #194 posted 03/03/10 3:15pm

NDRU

avatar

ZombieKitten said:

NDRU said:



also some way to re-use parts. I can't stand to see how much we throw away, such as computers & electronic equipment

And recycling has come a long way, but still we can't recycle a pizza box because it has some cheese on it? shake what a waste

I get about 4 phone books a year and haven't opened any of them. Colorado just failed to pass a bill that fined phone book companies who gave out books to people who don't want them. So we're required to have these 1000 page books every year that we don't want. I don't even have a land line anymore. shake

Recycling is nice, but what about re-using milk bottles like we used to? Soy milk comes in non-recyclable boxes.

and on and on...


I didn't know that, they haven't said anything to us about that confused
and phone books dead we get 5 each year, each one 4" thick - NEVER do I look in those things wacky


I put my pizza boxes in the recycling, but I know they've said not to put anything in there that is dirty from food, specifically pizza boxes
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Reply #195 posted 03/03/10 3:19pm

ZombieKitten

NDRU said:

ZombieKitten said:



I didn't know that, they haven't said anything to us about that confused
and phone books dead we get 5 each year, each one 4" thick - NEVER do I look in those things wacky


I put my pizza boxes in the recycling, but I know they've said not to put anything in there that is dirty from food, specifically pizza boxes


oh oops boxed
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Reply #196 posted 03/03/10 3:30pm

NDRU

avatar

ZombieKitten said:

NDRU said:



I put my pizza boxes in the recycling, but I know they've said not to put anything in there that is dirty from food, specifically pizza boxes


oh oops boxed


yeah I don't mind making that mistake, I can't bring myself to throw it away, cheese & grease or no
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Reply #197 posted 03/03/10 3:35pm

ZombieKitten

NDRU said:

ZombieKitten said:



oh oops boxed


yeah I don't mind making that mistake, I can't bring myself to throw it away, cheese & grease or no

no I mean ME
they probably told us that too and NEVER have I more than scraped out stuff out of jars, I was probably meant to WASH it, wasn't I?
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Reply #198 posted 03/03/10 3:40pm

lazycrockett

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^If Im washing a jar Im keeping the damn thing.
The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #199 posted 03/03/10 3:41pm

NDRU

avatar

lazycrockett said:

^If Im washing a jar Im keeping the damn thing.


true, and not a bad idea actually. recycling must use a lot of energy. we buy tupperware, and recycle perfectly good jars & takeout containers

Attempting to wash ziploc bags never was worth it for me, though
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Reply #200 posted 03/03/10 3:55pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

Ok....



Is plastic or is plastic NOT recyclable? Or is it certain types of plastic?



Easily recyclable materials


aluminum (except unclean foil)
paper (all )
glass (except bulbs and mirrors)
areosol cans
tin



I think the above gets further sorted by whether ink, caps/tops, and chemicals are attached.
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Reply #201 posted 03/03/10 4:08pm

ZombieKitten

NDRU said:

lazycrockett said:

^If Im washing a jar Im keeping the damn thing.


true, and not a bad idea actually. recycling must use a lot of energy. we buy tupperware, and recycle perfectly good jars & takeout containers

Attempting to wash ziploc bags never was worth it for me, though

I wash and reuse bags if nothing too sticky or messy was in it nod
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Reply #202 posted 03/03/10 4:10pm

drgnfly

in some states if unwashed material is in the container the "junk" it all.
It is sad to know that people do not understand how to recycle. Our landfills are full of recyclable material. disbelief
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Reply #203 posted 03/03/10 4:18pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

WE DAMN SURE DON'T KNOW HOW TO CORRECTLY RECYCLE WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE THIS!
breaks your heart. sad

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Reply #204 posted 03/03/10 4:21pm

drgnfly

DesireeNevermind said:

WE DAMN SURE DON'T KNOW HOW TO CORRECTLY RECYCLE WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE THIS!
breaks your heart. sad



What about the computer parts / electronics they are dumping sad
UNREAL!
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Reply #205 posted 03/03/10 4:25pm

NDRU

avatar

I watched the special features for the X-Files movie. The movie was horrible but the director talked about how he hated the film industry's waste

They create huge sets that get thrown away, and he said just water bottles alone were numbering in the hundreds every day. Sure, they recycle them, but how much energy does it take to recycle vs. drinking out of a reusable cup?
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Reply #206 posted 03/03/10 4:27pm

Evvy

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the duggars recycle and buy things second hand nod lol
LOVE HARD.
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Reply #207 posted 03/03/10 4:28pm

drgnfly

Evvy said:

the duggars recycle and buy things second hand nod lol

they have so many children lol they can buy it once and keep passing it down to the smallest one
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Reply #208 posted 03/03/10 4:38pm

psychodelicide

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drgnfly said:

Evvy said:

the duggars recycle and buy things second hand nod lol

they have so many children lol they can buy it once and keep passing it down to the smallest one


nod So true! And that is probably exactly what they do. smile
RIP, mom. I will forever miss and love you.
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Reply #209 posted 03/03/10 4:41pm

ZombieKitten

drgnfly said:

Evvy said:

the duggars recycle and buy things second hand nod lol

they have so many children lol they can buy it once and keep passing it down to the smallest one

waste not, want not nod

we can actually learn from them razz
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