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Reply #150 posted 03/03/10 4:35am

Genesia

avatar

jone70 said:

Genesia said:


How the hell do you know the kids are raising their younger siblings in that family? Have you lived with them?


They discuss it on their (public) website:

What’s a typical day in your house like? How do you maintain control over what has to be pretty chaotic? How do you make a household of 19 people run smoothly?


Our #1 goal is to lead our children to seek a close relationship with God & give Him every area of their lives. We purpose to start each day with a family Bible study, reading a chapter of Proverbs that corresponds with the day of the month. We have heart to heart talks with each of the older children regularly. We try to keep up with their attitudes & actions.

We desire for each child to develop a learning spirit & a servant's heart that looks for opportunities to serve others. It is a joy to see our children becoming best friends. If they can learn to treat their brothers and sisters like they want to be treated, then they can learn to get along with just about anyone along life's way.

We try to begin our daily routine with personal hygiene (get dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, etc...). Each older child has a younger buddy (or two) that they help. We eat breakfast & read the Proverb of the day at 8:00AM, then we "quick clean" the house (older child & their buddy work together to clean their jurisdictions).

Throughout the day we try to pickup as we go along, but naturally things tend toward disorder. So, it is a constant training process with "quick clean" times throughout the day. At 9:00AM, the older children help their buddies with their studies in phonics, math, violin & piano (J-O-Y- Jesus first, Others second, & Yourself last!). Then the older children start their music & individual studies - Math, English, Spelling & Typing.

We break for lunch around 12PM. Often one of the older children help prepare lunch & we all help cleanup. After lunch we work to finish individual studies.

Around 1:30PM the little ones go down for naps (4 & under). Momma & older children gather around the table at 2:00PM for Wisdom Booklet group studies - science, history, law, medicine - part of our ATIA curriculm. We work on one subject until we complete the study. We also review & memorize scripture, hymns & operational definitions of character qualities. The children especially enjoy this because they make up motions to help with memorization.

At 4:00PM, we break from group study to complete individual studies, otherwise this is free time. Dinner is scheduled for 5:00PM. Some of the older girls prepare dinner & everyone helps cleanup. We do another "quick clean" of the house after dinner & then have free time. Some may still be finishing up music, seeing we have to take turns on the pianos with 11 students! 8PM is snack time. Then we start getting ready for bed (baths, brush teeth, pick out clothes for the next day).

9:00PM is Bible time with Daddy. This is probably our favorite time of day. Daddy reads the Bible & we discuss the passage together. We talk about the day & bring out points of how to apply what we have learned. We enjoy making up skits & acting out examples of right responses & wrong responses. Often our little ones will fall asleep as Daddy begins Bible time, still they love to be with us at this special time. Bedtime falls around 10:00PM.

We have a master schedule of each family member's responsibilities displayed on our kitchen wall. This idea came from the Maxwell's, "Managers of Their Homes". For each month, we also have individual daily checklists which cover schoolwork, chores, music lessons, & personal hygiene. These were designed by Daddy so we could see at a glance how each child is doing. These checklists enable us to keep our children accountable & also reward them accordingly.

We have goals, but then we have reality! We are learning to practice flexibility -Not setting our affections on ideas or plans which could be changed by God or others! Sometimes we have "Daddy Days" when Daddy overrides the schedule and takes the children out for family time, a field trip or a service project. We try to make each day fun. Everyday is an exciting adventure!


How sexist that only the older GIRLS are expected to make dinner.


They have to help clean up after meals?! omfg Somebody call the authorities!

rolleyes
We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #151 posted 03/03/10 6:17am

tinaz

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The thing that bothers me about really large families and siblings raising siblings is if the parents cant handle all those kids themselves why do they keep having them? I mean we had chores at home but I dont think its right nor is it fair to make young children responsible for helping raise the other children and run a household..
~~~~~ Oh that voice...incredible....there should be a musical instrument called George Michael... ~~~~~
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Reply #152 posted 03/03/10 6:40am

Dave1992

Cinnie said:

MichelleDuggar said:



falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff falloff






You are brilliant!
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Reply #153 posted 03/03/10 6:51am

Genesia

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This is hilarious. I don't know what kind of homes y'all were raised in - maybe your mommy and daddy did everything for you and your siblings. Maybe it's a generational thing. When I was growing up, you did chores - one of which was helping out with the younger kids in the family. It didn't mean I was raising them. There were certain things - like discipline - that were the exclusive province of my parents. But I changed diapers and fed my younger sisters (and cleaned up afterward), pushed them around the neighborhood in a stroller, etc.

Did I resent it? Of course not. That's just the way it was - especially for an eldest child. (Usually, when I was out pushing a stroller, my mom was busy with one of the other children - or was ironing, or doing laundry, or cooking dinner, or any number of other things.) Heaven forbid a child should have to miss out on precious video game-playing time to help one of their younger siblings - or their parents.

But what do I know? I'm just a self-aggrandizing meanie.
[Edited 3/3/10 6:52am]
We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #154 posted 03/03/10 7:37am

JustErin

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Most people grow up having to help out and do chores. I don't think anyone is saying that isn't the way children should be raised. lol

I've only seen the show a couple of times and from the little that I did see, this is not about kids just helping out and doing chores, the older kids are simply raising the younger ones. It's not comparable to the average family at all. These kids are flat our scheduled from dawn to dusk. I agree with structure in a child life but in my opinion and again from what I saw, it's a shitty way to grow up...and pair that with their fucked up religious beliefs and I think the parents are total morons.
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Reply #155 posted 03/03/10 7:39am

tinaz

avatar

JustErin said:

Most people grow up having to help out and do chores. I don't think anyone is saying that isn't the way children should be raised. lol

I've only seen the show a couple of times and from the little that I did see, this is not about kids just helping out and doing chores, the older kids are simply raising the younger ones. It's not comparable to the average family at all. These kids are flat our scheduled from dawn to dusk. I agree with structure in a child life but in my opinion and again from what I saw, it's a shitty way to grow up...and pair that with their fucked up religious beliefs and I think the parents are total morons.



yeahthat
~~~~~ Oh that voice...incredible....there should be a musical instrument called George Michael... ~~~~~
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Reply #156 posted 03/03/10 7:43am

TheScouser

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Never heard of this family. Looks like the dad is doing a Joe Jackson, although in true white fashion he is doing a less-cooler classical music version of the Jackson 5 lol
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Reply #157 posted 03/03/10 8:08am

jone70

avatar

Genesia said:

jone70 said:


Quote from Duggar website was here.

How sexist that only the older GIRLS are expected to make dinner.


They have to help clean up after meals?! omfg Somebody call the authorities!

rolleyes


Does it really need to be spelled out for you? Okay, then:

1. You questioned how Meow knew the older children were raising the younger children?

2. I posted a quote from the family's website, bolding (for ease of reading) sentences that reference the older children being required to help in the rearing of the younger children.

3. You facetiously infer that someone (me?) is saying having children help clean up dishes is weird/odd/outrageous/shocking.


Here's you: mad













Here's the point: wave


And just so you understand that, it means you've missed it (the point) completely.


Perhaps folding, washing, etc. for your younger siblings gave you a good work ethic, but it doesn't seem to have helped you with reading comprehension.

.
[Edited 3/3/10 8:16am]
The check. The string he dropped. The Mona Lisa. The musical notes taken out of a hat. The glass. The toy shotgun painting. The things he found. Therefore, everything seen–every object, that is, plus the process of looking at it–is a Duchamp.
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Reply #158 posted 03/03/10 8:12am

Mach

lol Goodness ...
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Reply #159 posted 03/03/10 8:15am

jone70

avatar

JustErin said:

Most people grow up having to help out and do chores. I don't think anyone is saying that isn't the way children should be raised. lol

I've only seen the show a couple of times and from the little that I did see, this is not about kids just helping out and doing chores, the older kids are simply raising the younger ones. It's not comparable to the average family at all. These kids are flat our scheduled from dawn to dusk. I agree with structure in a child life but in my opinion and again from what I saw, it's a shitty way to grow up...and pair that with their fucked up religious beliefs and I think the parents are total morons.


I think the oldest kid is already married with a baby. Not sure how old he is though. On their website they were talking about how they are excited to be grandparents and parents again (b/c the mom was preggers around the same time as the d.i.l. I wonder how many babies the d.i.l. are expected to pop out?

The other thing to think about is, like you pointed out, these childrens' entire day is scheduled from 8am until 10pm and they only hang out with each other. They are home-schooled, practice music at home, etc. I didn't see anything about them having activities outside their home. I imagine their lives are fairly sheltered, I wonder how they'll "cope" if any of them ever decide to try it in the "real world". (You know, kind of like how the Amish have that one year where they can do all sorts of hedonistic, un-Amish things... lol )
The check. The string he dropped. The Mona Lisa. The musical notes taken out of a hat. The glass. The toy shotgun painting. The things he found. Therefore, everything seen–every object, that is, plus the process of looking at it–is a Duchamp.
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Reply #160 posted 03/03/10 8:23am

Genesia

avatar

jone70 said:

Genesia said:



They have to help clean up after meals?! omfg Somebody call the authorities!

rolleyes


Does it really need to be spelled out for you? Okay, then:

1. You questioned how Meow knew the older children were raising the younger children?

2. I posted a quote from the family's website, bolding (for ease of reading) sentences that reference the older children being required to help in the rearing of the younger children.

3. You facetiously infer that someone (me?) is saying having children help clean up dishes is weird/odd/outrageous/shocking.


Here's you: mad













Here's the point: wave


And just so you understand that, it means you've missed it (the point) completely.


Perhaps folding, washing, etc. for your younger siblings gave you a good work ethic, but it doesn't seem to have helped you with reading comprehension.

.
[Edited 3/3/10 8:16am]


And the insults just keep coming. Who's bitchy? lol
We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #161 posted 03/03/10 8:35am

Honey

jone70 said:

Here's you: mad













Here's the point: wave


falloff

I'm not laughing at you, Gen, but at how Jone posted that. Cute! lol
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Reply #162 posted 03/03/10 8:48am

jone70

avatar

Genesia said:

jone70 said:



Does it really need to be spelled out for you? Okay, then:

1. You questioned how Meow knew the older children were raising the younger children?

2. I posted a quote from the family's website, bolding (for ease of reading) sentences that reference the older children being required to help in the rearing of the younger children.

3. You facetiously infer that someone (me?) is saying having children help clean up dishes is weird/odd/outrageous/shocking.


Here's you: mad













Here's the point: wave


And just so you understand that, it means you've missed it (the point) completely.


Perhaps folding, washing, etc. for your younger siblings gave you a good work ethic, but it doesn't seem to have helped you with reading comprehension.

.
[Edited 3/3/10 8:16am]


And the insults just keep coming. Who's bitchy? lol


Regardless of the fact you are personally insulting me, I never claimed to not be a bitch. lol On the contrary, I'm not insulting you, I'm critiquing your reading comprehension skills. (Which I guess you didn't understand b/c of the whole reading comprehension thing.) Now, if you don't have anything else to add that relates to the Duggar family discussion, please try not to derail the topic any further by insulting me. We wouldn't want the thread to be locked would we?
The check. The string he dropped. The Mona Lisa. The musical notes taken out of a hat. The glass. The toy shotgun painting. The things he found. Therefore, everything seen–every object, that is, plus the process of looking at it–is a Duchamp.
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Reply #163 posted 03/03/10 9:09am

Genesia

avatar

jone70 said:

Genesia said:



And the insults just keep coming. Who's bitchy? lol


Regardless of the fact you are personally insulting me, I never claimed to not be a bitch. lol On the contrary, I'm not insulting you, I'm critiquing your reading comprehension skills. (Which I guess you didn't understand b/c of the whole reading comprehension thing.) Now, if you don't have anything else to add that relates to the Duggar family discussion, please try not to derail the topic any further by insulting me. We wouldn't want the thread to be locked would we?


Please point to one instance where I took issue with you, personally, rather than your argument (other than the last post in which I quoted you). I don't think you can.

You, on the other hand, have read way more into my posts than is there (I am not angry) and have insinuated that I am stupid more than once. All because I had the unmitigated gall to disagree with you.
We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #164 posted 03/03/10 9:37am

JustErin

avatar

jone70 said:

JustErin said:

Most people grow up having to help out and do chores. I don't think anyone is saying that isn't the way children should be raised. lol

I've only seen the show a couple of times and from the little that I did see, this is not about kids just helping out and doing chores, the older kids are simply raising the younger ones. It's not comparable to the average family at all. These kids are flat our scheduled from dawn to dusk. I agree with structure in a child life but in my opinion and again from what I saw, it's a shitty way to grow up...and pair that with their fucked up religious beliefs and I think the parents are total morons.


I think the oldest kid is already married with a baby. Not sure how old he is though. On their website they were talking about how they are excited to be grandparents and parents again (b/c the mom was preggers around the same time as the d.i.l. I wonder how many babies the d.i.l. are expected to pop out?

The other thing to think about is, like you pointed out, these childrens' entire day is scheduled from 8am until 10pm and they only hang out with each other. They are home-schooled, practice music at home, etc. I didn't see anything about them having activities outside their home. I imagine their lives are fairly sheltered, I wonder how they'll "cope" if any of them ever decide to try it in the "real world". (You know, kind of like how the Amish have that one year where they can do all sorts of hedonistic, un-Amish things... lol )


They are totally closed off the rest of the world which is the parents’ prerogative to do so, but to me it's a damn shame. I can't imagine much family support if the kids ever decided that they wanted to actually think for themselves for once and maybe lead another type of lifestyle.

This is why I hold so much disdain for religions like this. They preach love and acceptance but it's only AS LONG as you're doing exactly what THEY feel you should be doing.
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Reply #165 posted 03/03/10 12:09pm

meow85

avatar

Genesia said:

This is hilarious. I don't know what kind of homes y'all were raised in - maybe your mommy and daddy did everything for you and your siblings. Maybe it's a generational thing. When I was growing up, you did chores - one of which was helping out with the younger kids in the family. It didn't mean I was raising them. There were certain things - like discipline - that were the exclusive province of my parents. But I changed diapers and fed my younger sisters (and cleaned up afterward), pushed them around the neighborhood in a stroller, etc.

Did I resent it? Of course not. That's just the way it was - especially for an eldest child. (Usually, when I was out pushing a stroller, my mom was busy with one of the other children - or was ironing, or doing laundry, or cooking dinner, or any number of other things.) Heaven forbid a child should have to miss out on precious video game-playing time to help one of their younger siblings - or their parents.

But what do I know? I'm just a self-aggrandizing meanie.
[Edited 3/3/10 6:52am]


That's not the word I'd use.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #166 posted 03/03/10 12:13pm

thejason

meow85 said:

That's not the word I'd use.


don't be a pussy, say the word you'd use then... biggrin
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Reply #167 posted 03/03/10 12:54pm

Shorty

avatar

I agree with thejason and Genesia

"carbon footprint" falloff
"not a fan" falloff yeah...ok
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Reply #168 posted 03/03/10 1:16pm

NDRU

avatar

Shorty said:


"carbon footprint" falloff


that's my only issue with it. it's totally irresponsible in the face of overpopulation
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Reply #169 posted 03/03/10 1:34pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

NDRU said:

Shorty said:


"carbon footprint" falloff


that's my only issue with it. it's totally irresponsible in the face of overpopulation


Is there really an overpopulation problem or have we not figured out how to survive and thrive in certain areas of the planet? I mean people die just as quickly as people are born. It seems we are mostly a wasteful species not an overpopulated one. If we learned how to conserve and develop better recycling methods and energy sources for the areas we habitate, then the number of live births wouldn't be that much of an issue. Heck, there are more birds and rodents than there are people but we aren't trying to minimize their populations.
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Reply #170 posted 03/03/10 1:42pm

NDRU

avatar

DesireeNevermind said:

NDRU said:



that's my only issue with it. it's totally irresponsible in the face of overpopulation


Is there really an overpopulation problem or have we not figured out how to survive and thrive in certain areas of the planet? I mean people die just as quickly as people are born. It seems we are mostly a wasteful species not an overpopulated one. If we learned how to conserve and develop better recycling methods and energy sources for the areas we habitate, then the number of live births wouldn't be that much of an issue. Heck, there are more birds and rodents than there are people but we aren't trying to minimize their populations.


those are good points, and no I don't believe we're overpopulated yet, but if you look at the population curve you can see that the last 100 years have been thrown way out of balance.



The population can't continue to grow like this without some serious problems arising. We all die, yes, but not before the Duggars turn two people into twenty-two.

And it seems that the problems we face, like pollution & hunger & soon, water & oil shortages could be related to population growth.

But yes I agree that we are way too wasteful, and could support more people if we were more efficient.
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Reply #171 posted 03/03/10 1:48pm

NDRU

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You can see that we add more & more people in less time because with more people surviving & living longer, the population grows & branches out like a tree unless couples begin to average two or less kids over their lifetimes.

[img][/img]
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Reply #172 posted 03/03/10 2:01pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space. shrug

I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. confused
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Reply #173 posted 03/03/10 2:06pm

Serious

avatar

JustErin said:

jone70 said:



I think the oldest kid is already married with a baby. Not sure how old he is though. On their website they were talking about how they are excited to be grandparents and parents again (b/c the mom was preggers around the same time as the d.i.l. I wonder how many babies the d.i.l. are expected to pop out?

The other thing to think about is, like you pointed out, these childrens' entire day is scheduled from 8am until 10pm and they only hang out with each other. They are home-schooled, practice music at home, etc. I didn't see anything about them having activities outside their home. I imagine their lives are fairly sheltered, I wonder how they'll "cope" if any of them ever decide to try it in the "real world". (You know, kind of like how the Amish have that one year where they can do all sorts of hedonistic, un-Amish things... lol )


They are totally closed off the rest of the world which is the parents’ prerogative to do so, but to me it's a damn shame. I can't imagine much family support if the kids ever decided that they wanted to actually think for themselves for once and maybe lead another type of lifestyle.

This is why I hold so much disdain for religions like this. They preach love and acceptance but it's only AS LONG as you're doing exactly what THEY feel you should be doing.


Well said clapping
With a very special thank you to Tina: Is hammer already absolute, how much some people verändern...ICH hope is never so I will be! And if, then I hope that I would then have wen in my environment who joins me in the A....
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Reply #174 posted 03/03/10 2:14pm

NDRU

avatar

DesireeNevermind said:

I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space. shrug

I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. confused


the trend has been happening for longer than just since the 70's. Look at how long it took to go to one billion, then how long it took to go to two, then three. So it's a trend that started a while back.

yes, the future based on estimates but that's the point of the estimate, to show us that unless we change radically we're fucked! lol

But again I do think what you're saying is true, and there are a lot of things other than population we should deal with, too, that could help us handle a bigger population and maybe educate us to reduce the birth rate & control it (as you said has happened in some places) to compensate for more of us living longer
[Edited 3/3/10 14:24pm]
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Reply #175 posted 03/03/10 2:25pm

meow85

avatar

thejason said:

meow85 said:

That's not the word I'd use.


don't be a pussy, say the word you'd use then... biggrin

I don't want to get snipped. shhh

Some people can be horrible on here all day long and not even get so much as a slap on the wrist from the Mods. I am not one of those people. lol
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #176 posted 03/03/10 2:29pm

meow85

avatar

DesireeNevermind said:

I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space. shrug

I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. confused

falloff @ "oven"

Co-sign everything you said though. It isn't so much that the world as a whole is overpopulated. The problem is that a certain section of the population (us) uses a hugely disproportionate chunk of the available resources. A 21-member family the third world would have a FAR lesser impact than a 21-member family in North America. Not that I think anyone should be pumping out that many babies, mind. It's rough as hell on a woman's body to be in a constant state of pregnancy like that.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #177 posted 03/03/10 2:30pm

ZombieKitten

DesireeNevermind said:

NDRU said:



that's my only issue with it. it's totally irresponsible in the face of overpopulation


Is there really an overpopulation problem or have we not figured out how to survive and thrive in certain areas of the planet? I mean people die just as quickly as people are born. It seems we are mostly a wasteful species not an overpopulated one. If we learned how to conserve and develop better recycling methods and energy sources for the areas we habitate, then the number of live births wouldn't be that much of an issue. Heck, there are more birds and rodents than there are people but we aren't trying to minimize their populations.


apparently there is no shortage of resources, it's just there is no focus on the distribution of it. Even water.
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Reply #178 posted 03/03/10 2:33pm

ZombieKitten

DesireeNevermind said:

I may be misinterpreting your graph but it appears that population growth has boomed since the 70s onward with the 200k daily births occurring around 06 and all estimates afterward are based on the previous growth trends. How do we know that the birth rates won't slow down? In my state of California , teen birth rates alone have dwindled (a good thing). Also population growth and the reasons vary among countries, we may not all trend in the same direction at the same time. Just seems to me we ought to worry more about density than numbers. Too many people in one place is more of a problem than too many people in a very broad space. shrug

I do agree that 20 kids per couple is a bit much if not for the sake of our environment, then at least for the sake of humanity. The Duggars prime breeding years were in their 20s/30s and they're having kids well into their 40s when the likelihood for birth defects is greatest not to mention Mrs. Duggar has been pregnant nearly all of her adult life! I imagine her reproductive environment has been seriously overhauled. You can only use an oven so many times before it starts to break down. confused


women are designed to be constantly pregnant and breastfeeding nod
thanks to good nutrition and medicine, and hardly anyone dying in childbirth any more, the fertile period is now insanely long! nutty
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Reply #179 posted 03/03/10 2:35pm

NDRU

avatar

ZombieKitten said:

DesireeNevermind said:



Is there really an overpopulation problem or have we not figured out how to survive and thrive in certain areas of the planet? I mean people die just as quickly as people are born. It seems we are mostly a wasteful species not an overpopulated one. If we learned how to conserve and develop better recycling methods and energy sources for the areas we habitate, then the number of live births wouldn't be that much of an issue. Heck, there are more birds and rodents than there are people but we aren't trying to minimize their populations.


apparently there is no shortage of resources, it's just there is no focus on the distribution of it. Even water.


that is true right now, but do you think that will continue to be true as the population increases?
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