I need you all to watch all of this video and I hope that it will be enlightening to some of you.



Let me know your thoughts.

I'm a vegan, for the record.

No way in heck am I watching that! I have to turn the channel when those damn aspca commercials come on or I start bawling like a baby.

I think it’s important information, but I don’t need to watch it to get the full effect. I’m already quite educated on the treatment of factory farm animals in this country.

I’m veggie but not vegan. For eggs and dairy I try to buy local, organic, free range, etc. when I can, and the place I buy many of my groceries from researches the farms they come often. This isn’t always possible, but I think every better choice counts.

CarrieMpls said:

It is difficult for me to express how I feel without falling into the "preachy self righteous vegan" stereotype.

But I just feel that it's so easy to make a difference and yet so many people just refuse to take any accountability for their diet.

Ethical issues aside, there's many good health reasons to become vegan also.

I don't eat mammals. Unless it's... unless there's no other option. There was one day I just suddenly realized something and felt accountable and part of a larger group... mammals.
[Edited 2/4/10 10:36am]

Watched the video... still eating steak. Thanks.

I watched it, even though I knew I´d be bawling like crazy. Watching this makes me so very angry. I will never understand how those bastards working there can be allowed to act this way without being punished. If it was up to me, I´d treat treating animals this way as a crime commited on human and would also punish them for it the same way. I seriously doubt that those individuals have any kinds of feelings. I can´t imaging what kind of people they must be when they are capable of such behaviour towards animals. How come that even though these pictures are shown NO AUTHORITIES take any action? Why don´t they close these farms or fine them millions for them to think twice before they treat animals this way?

See, I have to admit that I am not a vegetarian. I eat meat, but not a lot, but I do eat it. But I am trying to reduce it as much as I can. I understand that nature is cruel and that certain animals are just herbicarnivorous and that by nature, it is natural to eat meat. I do not condemn people for eating meat. What I condemn people for is the way they treat those animals when they are alive.

dag said:

The problem IMO is greed. Many farms with these practices should just be shut down. Farmers don't want to pay vet bills and the expenses of extra hired help to keep these cows clean and feed properly. I doubt that these guys even allow the cows to roam to get fresh air.

I eat beef, chicken and pork... it cuts down on my need to eat so much fish. I stopped eating wild caught fish because of over fishing. I will never eat shark again and swordfish, orany other large fish like tuna (I love them but they are endangered).

I support using ALL of an animal that we do eat. Its hide (leather), bones (jello), and milk... but I support my local farmers (all of them). I thank God for the watch groups that do open our eyes to what goes on at some places so that practices like these are stopped.

Let's remember that there's a difference between getting milk, and slaughtering for beef.

There is no reason for these animals to be treated like this for the sake of milk. It's ridiculous. It's JUST milk, and I've been milk factories that are so automated in favor of the cows, they probably think they live in heaven. They go to get milked when they're ready, they're microchipped, so the computer reads which cows are producing what (as the milk is weighed once it's expelled), and the machine even gently washes their udders. The factory in the video is abhorrent at best. What a dumb motherfucker talking about their angst against cows. A COW? REALLY? Talk about someone with issues. Frankly, the growth hormone thing alone is enough for me to keep buying soy milk.

Slaughtering animals for meat is another issue; one I don't have a problem with per se. There's a humane way to kill an animal for the sake of getting meat from it. I believe God gave us dominion over this earth, and there is a food chain set in order for us to live by.

I've seen a lot of full on vegans, and they look sickly, super thin, and miserable. There's no honor is suffering over a cow. There's also no honor in unnecessarily harming one either. But there is some logic in eating meat and fish and chicken and poultry, etc. Gheez, I can't imagine not having a yummy lamb's meat gyro at times. Or sour cream? Or cheese? WTF is left for these people to eat if they're strict vegans? It's insane to me. Just as insane as beating a cow over the head w/ a wrench out of spite.

Neither setting should negate treating animals correctly.

I do not know of a kind way to kill something to eat it, yet I eat meat.
But dang a dairy farm ought to be able to do much better.

(But I do not think we need nearly as much milk as we as a nation drink. The US has a high rate of osteoporosis and a high rate of milk consumption and a high rate of obesity. coincidence?)

ernestsewell said:

you beat me!

paintedlady said:

Of course, it is greed on the farmers part. But what´s stopping authorities from taking actions? What´s stopping law-makers to make laws to protect them? Some laws should be made that animals are not "objects" or "goods". They are living creatures and as such they should be treated. You should be punished for abusing animals the same way as you are for abusing humans.

I would like to know which diary farm this was in New York state. I live in NY, and the state farms have quite a big name here.

Militant, any thoughts on that? More 411?

i cant watch it... please no details...

I do think it's important that people know this stuff, but I hate seeing it too. Especially when I am watching TV and it comes out of nowhere. I might even be eating dinner, and it could be salad, but it's just as disturbing.

I'm not criticizing you for posting the video, because at least we had warning for that. But I hate the commercials!

NDRU said:

Me too, i make my husband change the channel or I put something in front of my face... Sometimes I hate people...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Well, there´s a difference between shooting an animal without it even expecting it and an animal waiting in line to be killed in horrendous contitions watching other animals die before them.

I just saw a documentary on TV where they proved that animals do have feelings, they do realize that another animal has been killed. Not that, I would have to see a documentary like this to realize it. I know it, but it was unbelievable to see to what extend they actually feel pain, stress, joy and even compassion.

One of the most touching stories they told was of a dog who lived with a family on a farm and once they were driving a car in a fog and all of sudden, the dog started running next to the car barking. The man driving the car thought it was strange, but kept of driving till the dog jumped under the car. Of course, they killed it, but they found out that their son was stuck in a hole on the road and that´s what the dog was trying to tell them and since the man didn´t get it, the dog made up it´s mind and MADE him stop by jumping under the car saving the child´s life. Now, how many people do you know who would sacrifice their life for other species? Actually, I think humans have a lot to learn from animals.

dag said:

That's what I came to personally realize, some years ago.

If you think no animals were harmed in the production of your soy treats, you're very naive.

I agree that factory farming isn't the most humane form of animal husbandry. I actually go out of my way - and incur considerable extra expense to eat locally produced beef and pork. I know the farmers personally and am satisfied that their animals are treated humanely. Far from condemning them, I am grateful to them for doing something I could not.

Genesia said:

Exactly, I am also very greatful to those who treat them humanly. It´s a hard work and probably not the most profitable one. I think that a farmer should be someone who loves animals and does this because of his love for them and not because of his love for money.

I was thinking, guys, what authorities in NY are concerned with the animal protection? I´d like to send them an email and ask them, why they do nothing about this.

Ernest I would like to address a few points of yours...and you know I'm an atheist so I'll try not to offend you

Regarding your religious beliefs - what I believe is that the reason humans are at the "top" of the food chain (although try explaining that to a hungry lion) - is simply because we have the awareness and the ability to make the compassionate choice - which to me, is not killing when it is not necessary, and in our society (anyone in the Western world), it is most definitely NOT. There are easy, simple alternatives and they are not expensive. It requires some effort at first to change one's diet, but it very quickly becomes second nature.

The growth hormone thing you mentioned is largely a misconception. Some people do recommend not giving soy milk to young children, but soy is far from being the only cow milk replacement - there's rice milk, almond milk, hemp milk, oat milk and more. All of these products have ranges that makes things you mentioned like yoghurt, cheese. There's a vegan cheese in North America that came out recently called DAIYA and it just won a ton of awards. It's simply delicious.

Any health risks of soy milk are put to shame by the health risks of cows milk. The pasteurisation process (which isn't even 100% effective in getting rid of pus, blood, etc) actually kills the enzyme that is required in order for the human body to break down the calcium in it. Hence:

USA = largest amount of cows milk drinkers = largest amount of osteoporosis
China and Japan = no cows milk drinkers = barely any osteoporosis.

If any of you are interested in the truth about milk from a HEALTH perspective, then this would be a good place to start - http://www.notmilk.com/kradjian.html

Final point regarding vegans - and this might be controversial - but you insinuating that all vegans are thin, sickly, miserable, it's like if I met Freddie Mercury, Liberace and Sylvester and then said that all gay people are camp, flamboyant and have AIDS. I know you didn't specifically say ALL but that's what you insinuated by saying you've seen "a lot of full-on vegans".

Neither me or my wife are thin or miserable. I'm a member of a strictly vegan message board and the range of people on there is probably as diverse as this board - you've got people of all shapes, sizes, colors and backgrounds. You know, if I stuffed myself with tofu burgers and french fries every day, I'd be vegan but I certainly wouldn't be thin lol. Although most vegans eat well because being a vegan means you pay attention to your diet, being vegan and eating healthily are not one and the same. I can assure you the vast majority of people on the forum are not unhealthily thin, sickly or miserable (at least they don't seem it, I guess I have no way of knowing for sure! lol). There are even vegan bodybuilders out there! Google the term "vegan bodybuilder", see what comes it, I know it can seem surprising to anyone that might not know a great deal about veganism.

As for being or looking sickly, the vegans and vegetarians I know are much healthier than those who eat meat or dairy. Most meats are full of human immunosuppressants (since I first became a vegetarian and later a vegan, I only get maybe 1-2 colds a year....would get 3-4+ when I ate meat), and of course dairy encourages the production of mucus which isn't good.

As for which dairy farm, I'm not sure. I'm guessing because it's a undercover video, they aren't going to publically state it, because it would compromise other people who might be willing to go and gather evidence of the horrible things they do.

There´s one more thing I´d like to know about. What happens with the animals in pet shops that they do not sell? If it´s a dog or a cat, they might put it in shelter, but what about birds, budgies and stuff. Do they kill them? People like to buy animals when they are "babies" but what about animals that grow old before they sell them and then, nobody wants them.

Militant said:

What I said specifically was "I've seen a lot of full on vegans, and they look sickly, super thin, and miserable". I never said I've seen all vegans, because obviously I haven't. I'm only speaking from my experience thus far.

ernestsewell said:

I know that's what you said. That's why I addressed it by saying:



I said it was an insinuation not a direct statement, so as I said, it's like if I had only ever met a bunch of flamboyant excessively camp drag queens and then said:

"I've seen a lot of full on gay people and they look camp, wear women's clothes and look like they're riddled with STD's".

I mean it's just clearly not a fair representation of a group of people, and what you said is absolutely not a fair representation of vegans.

Do Prince, Ellen DeGeneres, Portia De Rossi, Tobey Maguire, Joaquin Phoenix, Casey Affleck, Woody Harrelson, Natalie Portman, Bryan Adams, Erykah Badu, Common, Shirley Manson, Paul McCartney, Alanis Morissette, Jason Mraz, Thom Yorke, Petra Nemcova or Russell Simmons look "sickly, superthin, miserable"?

Because ALL of those people are vegans.

Militant said:

Yes. Yes he does.

Jason Mraz looks like he should be in my bed, that's what.

i cant stand to watch animal cruelty its as if its my own pet .. I wanna kill fkrs that do this its so sad. .

Militant said:

at least FIVE of them are batshit crazy though

fingertips said:

I feel ya. Me, too.