JerseyKRS said:

LOL I laughed out loud on that. I can pick at least 4 that are batshit crazy. Joaquin, Woody, Erykah, and Alanis. Shirley is just sexy enough to be bat shit crazy w/ a hall pass. I don't know who Petra is, and I only know the name of Thom Yorke.

And yes, Russell Simmons looks sickly and haggard down.

ernestsewell said:

A Czech supermodel who got famous for surviving tsunami!!!




My brother loves her. He´s got some pictures of her on the wall.

Alanis is not crazy

Russell got worn down by years of dealing with crazy ass Kimora Lee. lol

JerseyKRS said:

That's because one of the symptoms of B-12 deficiency is a tendency toward irrational anger.

Genesia said:

JerseyKRS said:

Of course, Prince is one of the batshit crazies - and he ain't even a vegan, anymore. So...

Genesia said:

Please. There's no way you can prove that those peoples "perceived" craziness (most of which is just biased media reports anyway) is down to a B12 deficiency, unless you are their personal nutritionist.

The vast majority of vegans do not have a B12 deficiency, as there is enough B12 in fortified grain and soy products that are sold in any health food store.

I often hear this unsubstantiated argument regarding milk and calcium. They make uninformed statements such as "you need milk for calcium" (a lie from the dairy industry), and it happens with B12 also.

But they never think about the fact that a cow requires much more calcium than a human, and cow's do not consume milk past childhood. The B12 that meat eaters get from the guts of the animals does not originate in those animals, it originates from the bacteria in the plants that those animals eat, as those animals do not eat meat themselves.

Militant said:

Ummm...yeah. That was a joke. What's your B12 status?

I didn't say anything about milk or calcium, so I don't know why you're throwing that at me. And how do you know cows need more calcium than humans? Because they're bigger?

Look. It is a fact that there are certain nutrients that can only be derived from animals foods. Vitamin B12 is one of them, as is vitamin A. And please - don't try to throw beta carotene at me. Beta carotene is a vitamin A precursor - not true vitamin A. That means the body has to convert beta carotene to vitamin A - something that occurs in a 6-1 ratio at best. That means you have to eat a crapload of beta carotene-containing foods to get even a tiny amount of vitamin A. And most people can't do the conversion at optimum rates, because so many things affect it adversely (stress, medications, etc).

You make it sound like B12 is only in the guts of animals. It's in the meat, dude. I don't know a single person who eats cow guts. I certainly don't. And animals that you think don't eat meat, actually do. While they're inhaling all that hay and silage, they're also downing a lot of bugs and other animal bits that got mixed in when the grain or hay was harvested. (Farm machinery isn't kind.)

The fact that B12-like substances are found in things like fermented soy does not mean they can be used by the body. There is a specialized protein secreted in the stomach that allows the assimilation of B-12. This protein does not, however, recognize the pseudo-B12s in plant foods. The good news is that the body can store B12. So by the time most people would have developed a deficiency (which can take two to five years), they will have given up a vegan diet.

There's a way to eat healthy meat and support those who produce healthy meat without letting animals suffer for it.
There is a way to buy healthy eggs by healthy hens.

There is also a way to buy toxic apples, cucumbers and even soye beans.


Education comes first, then comes decision.



I am a vegetarian because, to me, any kind of meat (yes, fish is meat too) tastes like I would imagine bigfoot's dick would taste. Roasted. Right after an erection.

And because I hate animals.

dag said:

I understand the concern, but that's a slippery slope.... I don't see anyone bitching to other people about how people are dying over diamonds and oil as much as people complain about animal abuse. We love our shiny rocks and gold, don't we? I care about animals but I see too many people not caring about the plight of Africans and loving their engagement rings... yet will yell at someone who dares to wear fur.

I guess we all pick and choose which battles are more important.

JerseyKRS said:

I don't understand the push to guilt people into stuff.

Vendetta1 said:

I don't either. I chalk it up to entrée envy.

paintedlady said:

Genesia said:

Vendetta1 said:

co-sign

paintedlady said:

yes, and in my mind eating is a lot more important than vanity.

Most of us do something that hurts others, at least indirectly, all we can do is try to be the best we can be.

NDRU said:

Yep!

Sadly these are the problems we face in a monetary system.

andykeen said:

Huh?

Genesia said:

These "farmers" are cutting corners for their own greed, which is a symptom from a monetary system.

^...ya, you can find symptoms in every aspect of the expressed human psyche we call modern earth. Everything is abused...everything is taken advantage of.

While the vegan way is respectable and as applied to the current setting beneficial to Gaia the biosphere...as an evolutionary trend limiting ones diet is not beneficial. When a population increases the complexity of its diet (not just 'food') it increases the complexity of its own chemistry...the resultant eventually being new code.

Predation is of course one of the dominant natural selectors...propelling evolution and increasing biodiversity in the ecosystem.

It is a sad world we live in, and we the people are destroying the very thing our inquisitive nature would otherwise increase...call the problem overpopulation or religious oppression of the mind (a very strong selection in itself the last several thousand years in humans), greed...it's the same thing...and it's not going anywhere unless we educate without the hindrance of tradition.

andykeen said:

So...I guess we should all just do everything for ourselves. Grow our own food, grow our own cotton or linen (and weave our own fabric and sew our own clothes), grow our own trees, cut our own timber for lumber, build our own houses, mine our own metals so we can make our own pipes and building hardware, etc. That way, nobody would have any money, or any time or any anything.

Ridiculous.

Genesia said:

My apologies. I thought you were being serious.



You can bold as many words as you like but it doesn't make what you are saying any more true. And quite frankly, it isn't.

I take a fully vegan multivitamin which contains both plant sourced B12 and Vitamin A from Beta Carotene and Acetate. It also contains more than enough of the required daily amounts of Vitamin C, D2, E, B1, B2, B3, B6,Folic acid, B12, Biotin, Vitamin B5, Calcium, Iodine, Magnesium, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Manganese, Chromium, Molybdenum, Boron, Choline, Inositol, Lutein.

All fully vegan, so so much for your "fact". For the record, my nutritionist said I'm healthier than 90% of the meat eaters he sees.



Hilariously untrue, a complete and utter myth that has been debunked a million times over by nutritionists. Look it up (here's one example)

The myth that plants do not contain B-12 has been propagated and fostered by vested interests. The truth is that B-12 is found in plants in very small amounts. This is consistent with the fact that our need for Vitamin B-12 is miniscule (under one microgram (a millionth of a gram) daily, and the body can store it for two to eight years. (Vitamins of the B Complex, 1959 U.S. Department of Agriculture Yearbook of Agriculture, Section on Food, pp. 139-149) Robin Hur's article in this lesson suggests that our actual need for Vitamin B-12 is considerably less than one microgram per day.

Vitamin B-12 has been found in significant amounts in many plant foods, some of which are bananas, dates, greens, peanuts, and particularly sprouts and raw sunflower seeds.

A correspondent to the New England Journal of Medicine (12/7/78, p. 1319) notes that vitamin B-12 is manufactured by micro-organisms, making it possible to obtain B-12 from certain seeds and nuts, and from soybeans. He also cites synthesis of the vitamin in the digestive tract of humans when adequate amounts of unheated seeds are eaten, and points to healthy babies who are breast-fed by strict vegetarian mothers.

In studies on vegetarian and vegan humans, Dr. Wolfgang Tiling discovered the synthesis of B-12 in the intestines of children on a soy milk diet.



LOL. You're saying most vegans give up veganism in 2-5 years? Again, HILARIOUSLY untrue, and I've got an entire message forum full of long term vegans to disprove this. Seriously - that kind of snide cynicism is very unpleasant and condescending.
[Edited 2/4/10 19:23pm]

Militant said:

You know a message board of long-term vegans. And ernest knows a ton of sickly looking vegans. No offense, but if he was wrong for generalizing (supposedly) all vegans with just those he has been exposed to then, how are you correct in using your message board to speak for most vegans now?

Genesia said:

And sadly that way of thinking is the reason why the world is in such a mess today! We have enough resources and technology in the world to live a self sustaining place

paintedlady said:

See, I am one of the very few women who couldn´t care less about jewelry. I wear NO jewelry whatsoever. Even watch bothers me. I wear it only when I need it and it´s the first thing I take off when I come home. Of course fighting for those abused people is important as well, but that doesn´t mean that we also shouldn´t fight for animals. They´re all equally important. I see so many stupidities that people are bothering with, like all the regulations that go just into filling out some stupid paper, while the important things are never being solved.

And I think people are acting really idiotic, there´s no other way to put it. Let me give you an example. There are separarate trash cans for paper, glass and plastic in almost every street over here. Those trash cans are standing next to each other. And you open a can for paper and you find some plastic bottle in it while a trash can for plactic stands right next to it. I could really kill those people for doing that. It makes me sooooo angry.

I live in a small town where there are 8 supermarkets, which are totally useless and destroy small traders!!! They say that for each job that such new supermarket creates, 8 jobs get destroyed. They built ugly huge concrete boxes with huge parking lots and when they go down in business, those ugly buildings just stand there with no purpose. Why couldn´t they make a park over there?

Instead of modernizing public transportation, especially railways, and make people use them more, they build new roads to support the already heavy car traffic. These things are just driving me crazy.

FauxReal said:

Well, I can't speak for how many vegans ernest knows. But logically, how many is it really gonna be? 5? 10? 20? All most likely from the same geographic spectrum or social group/religion.

The forum I referred to has well over 7,000 members from all over the world, so it's clearly a more accurate representation, just like this forum is a more accurate representation of Prince fans than, say, the 9-10 big Prince fans that I know in real life.

It always weirds me out when vegetarians who allow eggs and dairy (milk) in their diet claim to support that lifestyle based on moral reasons.

The dairy industry could possibly be the cruelest of the 'factory farming' processes, and it would make sense to eliminate diary from the diet if you're to embark on any kind of vegetarian lifestyle based on morals/ethics.

But then again, I don't get vegans/vegetarians who own meat eating pets either. They adopt an "I don't care what you think" attitude with swiftness at that very notion that they might be hypocrites, it astounds me. You can judge the meat industry and factory farmer, but let's dare not point out the meat eating pets of professed vegetarians and vegans.


I won't watch that film though. I think I've seen one similar to it. It was ewww.

fingertips said:

Same here. I can't watch that video, because I know it will make me sad.