johnart said:

A genius is worthless if they don't deliver. I agree. It is VERY disrespectful. Not only is this project extremely meaningful to me personally, there are a lot of people involved, and it has high standards. I do excellent work, and everyone involved needs to do excellent work as well. We're moving fast and dilettantes will not be suffered!

ZombieKitten said:

It was a partial payment up front for a pretty low rate overall, but to lose that cash...

We have no contract. I asked if he wanted one and he said he just sends an invoice. I requested that we talk and get very clear about our expectations as to what the price would include and how we would proceed into the future. His answers struck me as very vague. Yet, he was already producing the work rapidly and well before I paid him anything, and he seemed professional. I'm quite involved in the community that he works for, so I'm surprised he gets away with this. Word of mouth and reputation can cost him a lot.

ZombieKitten said:

It doesn't sound like it..or he wouldn't have forgot about the project.Especially if he was paid upfront..he had no motivation for completion.Pay half or 1/4th up front and the rest on completion and satisfaction with the final work.His flakiness sounds like he had other jobs that had sooner deadlines and maybe paid more.Or he was just a lazy flaky fucker..either way, sever ties immediately and move on.

ZombieKitten said:

Not incredibly urgent, but urgent enough. I need to see progress and he just dropped the ball. My project is an art piece that is not funded. So it's not like I have a lot of money and he knows that. He was drawn toward the ideas in it, and considered it an opportunity to do some unique artwork of his own. But even though I'm not paid or funded, I take my work very seriously, and expect those involved to do so as well. I often come across this attitude of people not taking it so seriously >because it's art<, and the older I get, the more I need to burn through these people quickly.

Cuddles said:

That's possible. Anything is.

heartbeatocean said:

has it anything to do with the time of year, the holidays and such?

SavonOsco said:

Yes, that is my suspicion and I have left room for this kind of flexibility. But to make promises and then disappear? That's not cool. Then to forget about an apppointment after you have already been flaking on a regular basis and expressing heartfelt sorrow about it? Stooopid.

luv4u said:

Not my problem. I've got a website to put together and the future of my project depends on it.

heartbeatocean said:

two choices.. ask for monies back and move on or threaten with litigation and tell him to move his ass and finish your shit..I suggest the first since you have some time left..

heartbeatocean said:

I can totally relate to this.
I like to give people a chance. I mean, I do know that shit does happen, but I can only be held back from my goals so much. It cannot be a recurring thing.
I'm currently putting together a new business and I'm pretty much doing everything on my own. Once it's up and running I'll make decisions as to what can be handled by whom, but for now, I just don't want to have to be at the mercy of someone else's pace or whims.

Cuddles said:

If by holidays, you mean Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas...

I'm a virgo, and I just went through two different composers for my first feature length indie movie I'm making... both had to be cut from the project. I'm starting to get used to seeing that a creative type will not work out, and then moving on.

ufoclub said:

First, do you pay them? And if so, it must be at the discounted "indie film rate"?

Second, were they not professional or providing what you needed -- or was it more they were artistically incompatible? Or were there ego issues?

johnart said:

I think if someone were honest about their other commitments and could give me a clear picture of what they were willing to provide and when, I could flow with it. But he told me twice (or three times?) that he'd have something to show by the end of the week and then disappeared until I contacted him to check in on what was going on after hearing nothing for a couple of weeks.

heartbeatocean said:

I was hooking one of them up with professional gigs for corporate video music, but not paying them for my movie. Actually they wanted to try to do my movie because they like my work. A lot of people have helped on it because they like it, and think it would be a good career move to have their name attached. In one case a breakup with a girlfriend led to months of dead time, in another case, grad school work and bad depression led to no inspiration. Both of them are stellar composers, trained/educated/performing musicians, and we were aiming at composing orchestral cues that would have possibly been recorded with orchestra (they are so cheap to hire in Europe!)

fire him!

ufoclub said:

That sounds very similar to my situation. An incredibly talented person wanting to get attached to my project because it will look good for them, but not having the wherewithal to follow through on it. How to find motivated people who can walk the talk? Thank GOD I haven't had problems with actors!

I used to be the king of "one more chance" until I decided on a three-strike policy. When hiring people I'd keep a record of how many times they had let me down in a significant enough way to damage the position and / or other staff.

On the first strike they'd get a friendly chatting to but a fairly strict statement that although I was being friendly and understanding, it was still a business and not to be tolerated. On the second strike I'd tell them that they'd let us down again and they would lose their job if they didn't fix the problems.

On the third strike they were out unless it was something very personal and serious like a death in the family, when they would be given time off and told that although I was very sorry to do so, when they returned they would be on a probationary basis with no more strikes.

By the sounds of it you've reached strike three point with this fella.
I'd say you should contact him and diplomatically tell him that if he was 100% willing and able at your next meeting you would take the business somewhere else and demand whatever conditions may have been stipulated in whatever contract (written or verbal) you agreed to initially.

Good luck! This kind of thing is never easy.

Rule number 1: Never, EVER pay upfront.

Sounds like he let you down.

I would find somebody else quick. Then I would ask him to meet and bring all the work he has done so far. Then I would take the work and let him go. If it's not worth the money I paid, I would follow this by a letter that I want (part of) my money back. Problem is tho' that you paid him upfront and that you have no proof of what you agreed upon.

So I would do a couple of things different next time. I wouldn't pay upfront and, if possible, I would meet up first with the person who I am going to pay. If I still want to do business then, I would agree not only on the money, but also on what exactly s/he is going to do, deadlines and quality of work. I would pay only after the job has my approval and I am going to use it. I would only maybe pay up front when I have experienced the person as reliable, but then still not much. If it's a creative work that I am assigning I would talk about the copyrights too. Then I would confirm the agreement on the most important agreements and general terms, on paper or email, so there can be no misunderstandings or gettting away with malperformance.

--
[Edited 12/17/09 9:39am]

Tremolina said:

Thanks and will do. I didn't think about copyright issues. Next time I am meeting in person first and will draw up a clear contract. I should have known when he lowballed me his rate. You get what you pay for.
[Edited 12/18/09 10:48am]

No brainer. He didn't even call back to reschedule the appointment he flaked on like he said he was going to. Now how to get some of my money back?

If he doesn't pay me, I may spread a negative word about him (which is easy to do via internet). But I don't want to create bad karma.

Find out where he lives and put a brick thru his windows

I would email him and say things aren't working out and you've decided to go in a different direction and then ask for your money to be returned. If he's done any work for you, you might have to decide whether you get all the cash back or a prorated amount or whatever.

But I wouldn't feel guilty about it in the slightest. Guys like him give freelancers a bad name.

Graycap23 said:

Actually most people like me won't take a project unless we get half payment up front. More often it's the client that rips of the creative contractor.


Most everyone I know takes half up front.

heartbeatocean said:

Warning someone that a rabid dog is standing outside their door is simply a warning....

ufoclub said:

totally BASTARDS!!!

Oh HELL no. He sounds just like my ex boyfriend. Fire this person. Fire them hard. I know creative people go thru their moments, but this is a job. This is your website and I'm sure there's no time to be playing around. I think you've been fair enough--and this is coming from someone who usually writes her papers the day before they are due.

Let him know the deal nicely, however. The firing part, that is. Show him what being professional is all about. What a dreadful experience, though. JEEZ! I have a classmate who does web design. He's always beaming about jobs and spends long hours getting things right for clients. And he's got a busy life right now. He's engaged, has a second job, does the nightlife thing, etc. Yet somehow he's made time.

Dang, I'm kinda mad now... Something similar happened to me concerning artwork. Kinda flashing back here...

fire him. people go through things but 4 it to be a constant thing ( unless someone sadly is in the hospital or something more serious) its not right.