funny how people still feel entitled, even when put in the same circumstances as other people

Unemployed U.S.-born workers seek day-labor jobs
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By Emily Bazar, USA TODAY
Growing ranks of U.S. citizens are heading to street corners and home improvement store parking lots to find day-labor work usually done by illegal immigrants.
The trend is most pronounced in regions where hot construction markets have collapsed, says Abel Valenzuela Jr., a professor of urban planning at the University of California-Los Angeles.

"You had many, many unemployed construction workers who found themselves without any permanent or stable work," he says. "Some of them have gone on to seek employment by standing on street corners alongside immigrant workers."


DESPERATION: More seek day-labor jobs, but work is scarce

Day laborers gather at high-traffic spots such as busy intersections and home improvement stores, looking for pick-up work such as painting, laying bricks or landscaping. Contractors and homeowners describe the jobs and negotiate pay on the spot.

Valenzuela estimates the proportion of U.S.-born day laborers has at least doubled since he released a report in 2006, when his research showed they made up 7% of the day-labor workforce. At that time, Valenzuela estimated 117,600 people were looking for or doing day-labor jobs on any given day. Illegal immigrants were 75% of the day-labor workforce; the rest were legal immigrants.

"It's becoming more ethnically diverse. On the corners, I've seen white people, I've seen African Americans and a lot of Mexican Americans," says Pablo Alvarado, executive director of the National Day Laborer Organizing Network. "When unemployment benefits run out, I expect to see more."

Among the communities seeing an increase in U.S.-citizen day laborers:

•Tucson. Staff members at Southside Presbyterian Church, which runs a center where workers can connect with people offering work, have been seeing more U.S.-born people looking for jobs in 2008, says church elder Josefina Ahumada."We would say, 'Hi, how are you?' and we would learn that this is somebody who just got laid off."

•Arlington, Va. Construction workers recently laid off are showing up at the day-labor hiring site run by the Shirlington Employment and Education Center, says executive director Andres Tobar: "We're seeing people who hadn't come to our center before who are legally here and U.S. citizens, and who are skilled workers and can't find work."

•Los Angeles. Citizens are replacing immigrant day laborers who had trouble finding work and returned to their home countries, says Antonio Bernabe, senior organizer of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles.

"These are people who used to have permanent positions," he says. "It's happening everywhere."

I wonder what the anti-illegals crowd is going to have to say about this? Either they'll say nothing or they'll make up some dumbass reason why it's different when "real" Americans have to beg for shady work.

see, it's why i've always said, don't judge the illegals unless you're in THEIR shoes!!!

kimrachell said:

It would be wonderful if this horrid economy caused a sea change in the attitudes of those who are easily misled

I have noticed more and more that the people standing around on freeway exits asking for money, look more and more like just regular folk. No longer do they look like some lazy bum asking for a smoke, now it looks like a Dad trying to keep his family afloat.

Goes to show you that you never know when you will be on the "other" side of the table.

americans were always doing this kind of work. this is not new. what do people think was going on during the depression. the american dream is supposed to include education reaping the rewards of a roof over your head, a good job and the ability to take care of your family (which includes keeping food on the table and having health insurance so that everyone doesn't get sick).

the problem isn't the type of job, it was that employers didn't want to pay a decent living wage which is why the illegal immigrants were able to come in and get work right away (work for cheap and the employer can pay them under the table).


If these americans are unashamed of doing this type labor then good for them - the jobs should be theirs. If they do have a problem with it then fuck em.

PaisleyPark5083 said:

Those "lazy bums" are just regular folk too.

It's a very dangerous mistake to assume that those kind of people are less worthy of empathy, or faith, than are anyone else. Or that they deserve their lot through some (moral) failing, or are somehow intrinsically different from the rest of us. They are not. They ARE us.

I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "There but for the grace of God go I."? I find it's very apt, but especially in times like these.

Just to play devil's advocate, I don't think the day labor concept is what they hated so much as the fact that it's generally composed of illegal aliens looking to "take work from legal citizens"

DesireeNevermind said:

Exactly. And these same employers did everything they could to bust up the unions which negotiated for fair wages and benefits so that they could pay these illegal workers slave wages. Workers like this used to be paid a middle-class wage during the 60's and 70's and could even buy homes and raise a family on those wages, but by the time Ronald Reagan became President, they shipped a ton of manufacturing jobs overseas and fired most of the remaining union workers for the jobs they could not outsource.

meow85 said:

Yes of course, but the people at my freeway exit and hanging outside of my work building, are only looking for the next smoke or drink. There is one man in particular, that my boss has offered a job to, of sweeping and maintaining our parking area, litter free. He flat out said no, he has the nerve to stand out there all day and ask for hand-outs, but when we offered him a broom to sweep out the parking area for cash each week, he said nope.

PaisleyPark5083 said:

Flat out, you don't know that man's story and you don't know his motivations.

728huey said:

And under Bush, white collar jobs have now been offshored in ridiculous numbers and they are not coming back unless companies are penalized for doing so.

Dell for example pays call center workers in other countries around $500 per month or less depending on the country.

kimrachell said:

Poetic justice, I'd say.

meow85 said:

His motivations? This certain man refuses to sweep a parking lot for cash. He would rather stand outside leaning on our building, smoking, cursing, and asking for a hand out. You are right, he is not motivitated.

PaisleyPark5083 said:

years ago, after leaving a bar, I was once approached by a homeless dude that asked for spare change...so he could get something to eat, he said...some friends and I were walking less than a block to an all nite diner..I told him to come on, I'd buy him a meal, whatever he wanted....he told me to fuck off....

roodboi said:

Hiya sweetie!

Don't get me wrong, I am not a cold hearted bitch, just that I hate the fact that when this person was offered a hand, he refused. It was as if sweeping a parking lot was beneath him, but asking for a hand out was more along his path.

at both of you for dragging out your "homeless people are lazy bums" stories. I am so tired of hearing self-important stories told with a groan-and-a-sigh about some "bum" you met that one time who didn't want some shitty job (that you wouldn't take, either. Be honest) or a half-hearted handout.



Speaking as someone who's had years of experience dealing with homeless and low-income people firsthand, and is part of the first generation in decades on both sides of my family to NOT have to be in a position of homelessness,

No one is too good to be poor, not even you. So don't go congratulating yourselves too much for your own life choices, or condemning others for theirs. Where you end up, no matter who you are, is half chance.

PaisleyPark5083 said:

Would YOU take a shitty job sweeping a parking lot, even if you could really use the money? Be honest.

Consider this: Imagine yourself homeless. (I know, YOU! Homeless! The HORROR!)You haven't showered all week and sweating is not only going to stink up your clothes more, but if it's inclement weather, will actually make you colder. Perhaps you have a physical disability preventing you from work. Maybe you haven't eaten for a few days and just don't have the energy. For that matter, maybe you're coming down off heroin and moving at all would be torturous. Maybe you have paranoid schizophrenia and there's any number of reasons why sweeping might be abhorrent to you.

Or maybe you just don't want a shitty pity job from some self-righteous do-gooder who, more likely than not, doesn't actually care that you get any money or about your well-being. They really just want you to stop loitering so they don't have to look at you. Your presence makes them uncomfortable, and folk do like their comfort.

Taking what is clearly a pity job is, to many people who have had to face that option, MORE demeaning than begging. That last paragraph is an exaggeration and I truly hope it is more often than not untrue, but it is how offers of "jobs" like sweeping and those who offer them are perceived by people who are homeless.
[Edited 12/1/09 21:01pm]

meow85 said:

oh god, meow, spare me...I didn't offer the motherfucker a job, I offered him a goddam meal...I mean, that's what he said he wanted change for...homeless people arent lazy bums, but he was a lazy asshole bum...


if I were hungry or poor, I'd do most anything to change that...whether that be a shitty task for money or taking a 'half hearted' handout...

I've never been hungry or poor but I've done many a job that alot of folks would turn away in disgust from...so save your judgement please, it gets fucking old after awhile...

kimrachell said:

I think for the most part people don't judge illegals on the
basis of their ethnicity,people judge them on the fact they're
in the U.S illegally taking jobs from Americans illegally. That's why
they are called illegals.If they come to the U.S and pass immigration
laws then fine.

roodboi said:

Cute.

But I know a good deal of people who have been hungry and poor, who have been homeless. Both parents and several other relatives have been homeless. I have been hungry and poor. I have worked for several years directly with low income and homeless people.

It's very easy to say what you would and wouldn't do if you were homeless, and pass judgment on people who don't choose what you like to imagine you'd do, if you've never had to face that situation.

meow85 said:

apparently it's just as easy for you to say what I would or wouldn't do if I were in that situation...

I think it's interesting from that one story you assume that I'm passing judgement on an entire group...for the most part, I tend to stay away from blanket generalizations...

but listen, if I'm hungry and somebody offers me a meal, believe it or not, I'm eating...call me crazy...
[Edited 12/1/09 21:13pm]

i was homeless as a child with my parents, and i can tell you that my parents took any job they could get, including us moving in with complete strangers and my mom being a cook for the family, and cleaning their house. and my dad cleaning banks the family owned, it was help offered by perfect strangers and my parents were so grateful and accepted it. and i know for a fact that if it hadn't been for those people offering my parents work that we may have never been able to get off of the street. what a blessing those people were at that desperate moment in our lives. i believe (and it's just my thoughts here, i'm not trying to force what i think onto anyone) but i believe that if you are really in need and in a desperate situation that you accept the help and consider it that God (or whoever you believe in) has sent someone along to give you a lift up and a help out of your situation. i know that my dad always took any work he could get, and always did it with pride and honor, even if it was sweeping a parking lot. and i still admire him to this day for his work ethic, and for never giving up on trying to support his family. i'm so proud that those days are behind him, that now he has a good, secure job!

roodboi said:

i agree!

meow85 said:

Oh my god, you think I am clueless about being down and out? I had a kid at 17, barely out of high school, crappy low paying job at that point in my life, kid in daycare, my husband and I working 2 jobs each to get out of our situation.
We 3 were never homeless, we lived in a rented room, with an older couple, and helped them with the house chores inside and out, plus we each held down 2 jobs. Girl, we were pitful! At that point, of course I would have taken a broom and swept a side walk a driveway, anything to get the next meal for my son.
Crap, I was even a nanny to the rich and famous in Santa Barbara for a few years, you think that's not demeaning? Having some 2 bit, d list, shitty actress telling me that it was my fault her uncoordinated kid kept falling down. But that's another story.

And as for my boss, hell he has his own sob story, he was born to 2 dirt poor immigrants in brooklyn. He does nothing, just to shove the problem out of the way. He really wanted to help, but he is running a law firm. If that man was up for anything else to be done here, I am sure my boss would have tried. But you have to start from the bottom up.
Anyways, I am tired and sleepy, and this is pointless.

kimrachell said:

It's just not that simple for a lot of people. I mentioned a few reasons above, but only a few.

PaisleyPark5083 said:

Since it's clear you've already made up your mind, it is.