Say what you want but Perry has built himself a nice lil movie empire. Like him or not.

There's something to be said for quality. That is all...

Tyler is living the good life, he has many fans...

Fuck Spike. He's a damn fool. Perry was right in his statement on that video.

Well, I sort of see both sides. Both have good points.

Spike's point of making quality movies that present African American's in positive images and not "buffonery" is valid when it comes to "House of Payne" and "Meet the Browns", however, while Spike's movies have presented African Americans in ways that Hollywood hasn't, as successful business owners, jazz musicians, civil right's leaders, etc., his movies don't always make sense to the public but make more sense to him.

Tyler's point of using his main characters to bait his audience into hearing and understanding the underlying message that the movie is trying to give is a valid point as well, though, his characters are a little "out there" in confirming Hollywood's assumption as thats how "black people really are and how they act".

As an African American myself, I believe that Spike Lee should have given Tyler his props as well as point out the negative, rather than just soley shooting him down and saying that his work is basically plain old garbage. But like Tyler was implying in the interview, or at least the part I saw, it's a shame that the support can't be established for up and coming African American directors, instead, complaints and negative comments are made. Spike could have at least given him some advice on to how to turn his "buffoonery" style around, instead of just complaining about it. But in our community, that's just how it is. We don't support our own. Some people may not like what I have just said, but that's just a fact. Plain and simple.

Thats just my two cents.
[Edited 10/25/09 18:49pm]

ernestsewell said:

I don't have any buffoons in my family. Like Calhoun stated, there is something to be said about quality. You can have characters that "depict" certain stereotypes but when the writing doesn't flesh out these characters they become, like Lee pointed out, caricatures akin to Amos N Andy.

Perry should be listening to his predecessors instead of getting defensive. His defensive stance is all the evidence I need to prove Lee's theory correct.

I like how Tyler takes a hard left turn to Non Sequiturville in his response:

"It's bait" --> "refutes Hollywood stereotypes..."

[N word snip - luv4u], please.

sosgemini said:

Precisely.

sosgemini said:

Perry was right though. There ARE people like Madea or the Brown's that exist, just as much as folks like the ones in Why Did I Get Married? exist. Spike's films aren't exactly a true life depiction of blacks in America either. If Perry is on one extreme, Spike is on the other, which actually makes them complimentary to each other.

A writer writes what they know. Perry, and probably Spike, bases some of his characters off people he knows. I didn't see Spike going after Eddie Murphy, Martin Lawrence, or any other black actor that has created some friend chicken eating, sass talking caricature. Most characters in movies ARE caricatures. "Caricature" isn't a bad word. Yes, it means exaggerated for comic effect, but look at action films w/ people like Jean Claude VanDamme, or Steven IBeatMyWomen Segal. You think cops and military people are like THAT? I don't remember Schwarzkopf jumping up and bitching about that.

Point being, the "argument" Spike makes can be made by anyone wanting to piss on someone's work. Hell, someone could point a finger at Lee for being a basketball loving black whatever because of his documentary about Kobe, and his upcoming one about Michael Jordan. Without looking it up, who can even name the last 2 Spike Lee movies, or name two of his movies since Sucker Free City???

But maybe other successful black men are a big threat to Mr. Lee. He needs to grow up. That whole "angry black man" routine is so OLD at this point. YAWNZVILLE.

ernestsewell said:

But Lee's point was not that these people exist but that Perry's writting is so piss poor that these "roles" being depicted by actors end up looking like buffoons.

...and btw: The "angry black man" routine will never get old until "we" black folks have equal footing within in life and in art.

...and the last Spike Lee film happened to be Passing Strange. It was released this year and was considered groundbreaking for the way he translated a broadway play to film. Groundbreaking!! by most critics. Oh, and before that, he made a little film called Inside Man that has grossed more then any of Perry's films...So, uh, something tells me Lee isn't sweating the craptastic artistry that is known as Tyler Perry.

Dude, it's like comparing Prince to freaken N'Sync man...Nmuthaf*ckinSync.



[Edited 10/25/09 19:19pm]

ThreadBare said:

Wait, that's not the n-word. It's "black" in Spanish. You can hear that phrase on "Good times." Surely, that's not pushing the envelope in 2009.

Honestly, now. There's offensiveness and then there's contextual accuracy. It's a fine line, admittedly, but still... That being snipped is a little surreal.
[Edited 10/25/09 19:43pm]

ThreadBare said:

I guess 60 Minutes dropped the ball for not bleeping Oprah when she used that word.

Anyway, let's hope the continual flood of criticism -- this "60 Minutes" exchange follows a recent e-mail from an Atlanta-area actress that was read on a recent edition of NPR's "All Things Considered" -- forces Perry to make more vehicles that accurately reflect the woefully under-served black educated middle class in America.

It's a shame that Cosby-, Reid- and Townsend-produced programming stand as aberrations, some 20 years later.

ThreadBare said:

WTF?? So NOW, we can't use the word Negro??? That's now being viewed as the "n-word"??? Really??? When did this shit happen? I didn't get the memo. Rev Al and the NAACP musta lost my address. Folks really need to go lay down somewhere.

missfee said:

ernestsewell said:

Spike doesn't have a lot of room to talk.
He has made some good films but Girl 6 was pure
shit and as far as buffoonery he did create the
Radio Raheim character. It just seems like jealousy
rearing it's ugly head.

Some of you mf's just don't get it

ThreadBare said:

EXACTLY!

What BAIT?

Spike Lee's movies will be here 30 years from now,,,,,Tyler Perry's movies will be here 30 years from now too, only difference is his movies will be shown in documentaries that discuess the progression of reinforcing stereotypes through out the years.

The ONLY good thing I could say about Tyler is the fact that he co-sponsored the film "Precious", thats the only thing that worked for his favor,,,,,fuck the rest of his plantation throwback films though.

Ernestsewell


I have to disagree with you, Spike's films does show a true depiction of Blacks that exist in America. Black Americans come from various social/economic/political/educational backgrounds, and have individual personalities and lifestyles. Spike's films seem to focus more on one-on-one relationships, and sometimes multiple ones. He may dig as deep as Tyler, but you get the point by the end of Spike's films.

Spike's "Malcolm X" will always win me over. It was done in good taste, and he pretty much kept things real. Like Misfee mentioned in her post, Tyler Perry's films come with a message at the end of his movie, a lesson of life, if you will, usually focusing on a situation resolved by the end of the film. and a little more intense, and he takes risks in "digging deeper" into a situation.

Tyler's films presents a lot of emotions and real, life situations, not normally displayed in other Black films today. Actually back in the 70s, more dramatic or epic films were made back then, which you don't see in many films with an all, black cast today.

Now with Tyler's characters like the main, male character in "Meet the Browns", there are actually some folks like him that exist, but that doesn't account for the whole, black population. I feel that Tyler's characters reflect a specific segment of the Black population in the south, with the frequent gospel/church scenes, because quite frankly in most bible belt states, most Blacks do attend church.. I'm not too fond of Tyler's minstrel-like characters, but there are many like that who exist.

I like that Spike's film "School Daze" as it touched on a situation that still goes on today in the Black community, but that issue is not at all limited to the Black community (Light skin vs Dark skin). I also liked that he brought to light the Black colleges, fraternities/sororities, which many Black college students in the south hold pride in. I was exposed to that when I lived in the South for 5 years, and noticed how seriously many students and alumni who attended Black Colleges, took their fraternities/sororities with pride, as well as belonging to a church. I remember telling someone in the south that I didn't belong to a church and their reaction was like the world was going to end that day.

Another thing is many people don't know that there are many Black fmailies that own acres of land in various parts of the south and keep that land in the family. They will lease some of it out, but they hold on to it for years, and pass it down to family members. I had quite a few friends in North Florida who owned acres of land. They didn't walk around in fancy clothes. They had a souther twang, didn't sound educated, as to what society's view is of being educated, but they were smart enough to hold on to their land and pass it down to family members. Some sold parts of their land to developers and others continue to hold on to their land for years. There are many Black Americans that own land in this country, but you don't see that on tv or in film.
[Edited 10/26/09 7:40am]

Harlepolis said:

too.

Actually he didn't have ANYTHING to do with Precious. Him and Oprah came in strictly for distribution after the film was produced. Thank God.

SCNDLS said:

So who actually produced this film? I'm anxious to see it.

I don't get Tyler's response. No one said that those characters--Madea and those on Meet the Browns and his other shows didn't exist. And I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of them being 'bait'. I mean I get it but I don't like it. Give me a good story and well developed fleshed out characters and I'll pay to see your movie. I don't need it dressed up as one thing so you can try and show me something else.

He has his audience and that's great. There are some people that need that bait or enjoy that humor and it speaks to them. And there others who don't care for it--tired of seeing what some deem as stereotypical or buffoonery behavior. It's been depicted for so long, some people a thirsty for something different, something that speaks to their reality which is NOT Madea or the Browns.
[Edited 10/26/09 7:56am]

2elijah said:

I think at this point they're going to give Tyler and Oprah production credit but I believe it was produced by the director himself. I think. But I believe Tyler and Oprah picked it up after it was shown at a film festival. That's what I heard.

SCNDLS said:

You know, I remember my sister telling me about this story sometime ago, because she read the book, so when I heard the name of the movie, I knew it had to be the same story she read about. I know I'm going to end up crying through the whole darn movie, as it looks like a tearjerker.
[Edited 10/26/09 8:17am]

JackieBlue said:

Try watching Daddy's Little Girls and Why did i get Married.
There's no Madea or Meet the Brown Characters in either movie.

SCNDLS said:

it was produced by two old white people who financed the film with their own cash. they are the ones who will receive an Oscar if the film wins Best Picture (which many believe at this point, it will).

phunkdaddy said:

Yeah, but NEITHER is well written OR well acted. Therein lies the problem for a lot of us. It's all about catering to the lowest common denominator rather than raising the bar on an artistic level.

As for your comment about Spike and Girl 6 (which I love), he ain't got no reason to hate on Tyler and in all of his films you can see Spike stretching his craft and trying new things. They don't always work, aren't always successful, but that's what true artists do. Tyler is not raising his game and instead chooses to pander to his audience. I personally think that he's very limited as a writer/director/actor. I ain't mad at him for getting his paper but he can't be surprised or disappointed when people call him on that shit.