JustErin said:

I think that would be the best thing to do in case things gets out of hand.

kpowers said:

Out of hand? How so?

I think it's a fine idea.

I only know one person who's done it. And the guy walked into the room, figured out what was going on in 2 seconds, and walked out.

My friend had flown across the country for it!!

I think most reasonable people want to quit, they just can't face the truth--or think they can't. But when they're confronted in this way and it's put out in the open with people you love I think they will tend to respond in the right way.

JustErin said:

Having someone who is emotionally objective and has been in the situation before would be a good idea.

JustErin said:

I think a Professional could guide you to have a successful out come of your intervention.

NDRU said:

I'm trying to predict how he would respond. I can see him maybe just walking out as well. In a way, I really don't even want to be involved. I think it should be a very private affair with his mom and dad, sister and maybe his gf.

I'm thinking that maybe I should just let them know what's going on.

NDRU said:

You know what's weird?

He was telling me about his friend who was in town that night. He was saying how this friend was totally fucking up his life with drugs and alcohol and how awful it was...but they were out drinking and doing coke together.

JustErin said:

If you do one you'll have to tell them anyway (and you should if it's gotten this bad). So maybe that's a good first step. You might find they are not going to do anything about it (for fear of confrontation) and you should go ahead & plan it yourself, or maybe they would want you to be a part of it.

Either way, talking to them is a good idea.

As for him walking out--part of the deal with interventions is saying "unless you quit, I'm not going to be your friend/wife/partner/etc" They have to know what they stand to lose because of their addictions. So even if they walk out it should not be over on your part.

NDRU said:

See that part just wouldn't work if I were to say it because I know that, to him, I'm totally disposable and walking away from me wouldn't really be a big deal...it's already hit and miss when it comes to me...but his family, I'm sure he'd totally care.

But unfortunately, I can't see his parents saying that - or being about to stick to it. He's been a child of privilege and in the years I've known him now, they are total enablers.

JustErin said:

Don't underestimate yourself! And still, it sounds like you should talk to his family.

JustErin said:

Thats why I think you should at least talk to a professional about this.

kpowers said:

Where do I start then?

JustErin said:

Check your area AA Meetings/ Rehab centers

kpowers said:

Ok, thanks.

Not as such. Me and a few friends lured a friend into a basement apartment and locked him in, taking turns caring for him while he detoxed. That's not really an intervention though, but we were very well aware he'd have too many places and people to escape to for a conventional one to work. In the end it didn't work, he stayed clean for a couple years but then I went to his funeral a few years back.

I think the problem is the family, lots of times - they just don't want to face the things they will have to deny their child/sibling/whatever. It's a great thing though, I'm a great believer in interventions.

So it turns out that there is an AA meeting on Mondays in a centre that is literally beside the building he lives in. I'll tell him that I will even go with him if he doesn't want to go alone. I think I might approach this in steps. I'm going to tell him about the meetings next door, I'm also going to give him several names of psychologists and/or recommend that he get in touch with his HR department at work to get info on any help services they provide. I'm gonna give him the chance to reach out for real help on his own and see how that goes.

I've come to realize that this is pretty much a case of slow suicide and he is obviously extremely depressed.

I don't want to sound totally cheesy, but eventually, he'll appreciate what you want to do/what you're gonna do for him...it may take awhile, it may not....he may resent you, he may not....but eventually he'll realize how lucky he was to have you in his life...

roodboi said:

That would be really nice.

JustErin said:

good luck whatever you choose to do and however you choose to do it

Thank you!

JustErin said:

...but it (in most cases) will get really shitty before anything is ever nice again...
I took it personally when my friends and family stepped in to help me...as out of control as things were, I refused to believe admit that I couldn't handle my own problems...I mean, who the fuck were they to say I had no control of my life?

but of course, they were right & I knew it...but it's a serious blow to someones ego to admit that their biggest problem is the person they see in the mirror every day...that's why I always say my issue wasn't the drugs or my lifestyle at that time, my problem was me...telling a person they have to deal with themselves can strike a chord...what that chord may be is a crap shoot...
but, since you obviously give a damn about this person, it's a chance worth taking, imo...

JustErin said:

I hope everything works out

roodboi said:

I think this is probably how it is for most people but I really can't see him denying he has a problem. I see him hiding it but not denying. He knows he does and will admit it freely. He told me that it's all based on a lack of self esteem and an obsessive fear of failure.

I'm so glad you got the help that you did.
[Edited 11/11/09 18:37pm]

JustErin said:

thank you...
it took me a while to realize it, but so am I...
I'm convinced I wouldn't be around otherwise...
and I don't think the drugs necessarily would have killed me...I was at such a low point that I surrounded myself with all things negative and shady...I could have cared less if the sun came up the next day or not...I'm convinced that eventually I would have gotten caught up in something that I couldn't get out of...

and one more thing, and I don't wanna act like I have all the answers because I certainly don't, I just wanna offer you my perspective...
I never really denied having a problem either...until everybody else started telling me I had a problem...I kinda embraced my issues but it pissed me off immensely when somebody else reminded me of them...

Ugh. I feel your pain. I lived with my best friend Dan for two years and watched his drinking problem increase during that time. I was so embattled inside as to what to do. He talked about almost falling into the subway tracks one time!

Like you, I thought I should discuss it with his family and let his mom know. Well, when she came out and visited, and I saw that they would go to bars mid-afternoon together, I knew that was a futile plan. I think what you're stepping into with the family and all could be a can of worms, and you may discover more than you'd like to know.

My friend also indicated several times he would not be interested in quitting. Having dealt with addictive personalities in my life, I knew the game of it. They won't quit until they themselves decide to quit.

Like you, I was very concerned about the friendship because I sensed he would see it as betrayal.

I eventually decided to move on with my life, and surround myself with people who were drug-free. I had lots of my own problems to deal with. The friendship went on hiatus and I think he was hurt by my distancing. Although, I made it clear that if he ever wanted help, and to talk to a professional, that I could refer him to someone amazing. He never took me up on it.

15 years later, we are still good friends, though my tolerance for him comes and goes. He still drinks but seems to manage it better. I don't get close enough to know the true story.

If you want to take this on, then you are very courageous, and hopefully ready for some hard work. However, I also think it's okay for you to say "No. I'm not going to get into this." Looking back, I was very poorly equipped to handle it. Maybe you are in a better position.

But I'd like to offer that if you choose not to hold an intervention, that's okay. You don't need to feel guilt about it. But that's a decision you have to come to on your own.

Now, I can tell you that when I was a kid, my family held an intervention for my uncle. (My mom was a counselor, so she knew a lot about it) My uncle acted complicit for a while and agreed to do what we wanted, until he went into a rage later and threw a chair. I wasn't there when he did that. Maybe he waited till I was gone to create a scene, who knows.

He continued drinking for several years, then eventually quit and joined AA. He's been sober many, many years now. Perhaps our intervention planted a seed.

JustErin said:

Well, I wish you the best of luck should you decide to go ahead with this intervention. At least it appears that your friend has already crossed the biggest hurdle, which is admitting that he has a problem in the first place. So at least denial is not an issue. However, his fear and lack of self-esteem could be really serious issues to overcome, because most men are taught that they should have enough strength to overcome their problems, even if they have pre-dispositions to addiction and biologically can't control themselves. The biggest cause for despair is feeling as though one has failed and is completely worthless, even though in reality that's never really the case.

Hopefully his family are not a bunch of enablers. Sometimes the biggest obstacle to recovery is the addict's loved ones being in denial over the addiction.

So I sent him the following email.

Thought I would write to your gmail account as it's certainly more private than your work addy.

Just wanted to say a few things that have been on my mind since talking on Saturday. I really think that you need to get some real help. Certainly you need some help to get a better handle on your drinking - meaning stop drinking altogether - but I really think you also need to start talking to someone about what it is you’re trying to avoid by drinking. I don't think you're all that happy and I also don't think you really want to continue on like this, right? So just existing day to day like this is never going to change anything. I mean, you're smart enough to realize that you have a problem and it's not like you're even denying anything, so that's a good first step I think. You say you're not close to anyone, that you don't talk to anyone about this stuff, well that's even more reason to get some help. I'm a little shocked that your family, your friends and especially your girlfriend aren't trying to help you in some way...but maybe you're not being honest with them. I dunno...

I don't think I would be much of a friend to you if I just let this go and didn't try to intervene in some way. I'm not totally sure if you understand how serious this all is. I think you do, you told me you do, but do you really if you're not doing anything about it? You agreed that you’re killing yourself – so it's almost like a slow, prolonged form of suicide. That sounds so dramatic, but think about how sick you are and what you're doing knowing full well that it will only make things worse.

So, I thought, 'what can I actually do to help?' Well, I guess at this point all I can do is present some options to you and hope you take advantage of them.

I think that you should give AA a try, at least as a starter. I looked into this for you and there are open meetings being held every Monday @ 5:30 at the ***** – that’s right next door! And you don’t have to go alone, you can bring any friend/or family as support if you want and you know that I’ll be there for you if you want to keep this really private but want some company. It won’t hurt to at least check it out. You don’t have to sign up for anything, and participation in dialogue (or not) is totally up to you and they don’t expect you to say a word if you don’t want to. You can just go to listen. It’s all up to you but please consider doing this.

But again, I also think you need to get some sort of counseling for some of the self esteem and fear of failure issues you’re having. Most companies have help through their HR departments and I’m guessing that Gov jobs are no different. It’s very discreet and totally confidential. Please talk to your HR department or maybe you were given a package with this info when you first started. It can be easy as just calling a number to get it all started. But please just do it.

Bottom line is you need to do something. I’ll be there to help you in any way if you’ll just let me. I care about you so much and the thought of you not being around in a year or two is unbearable.

it's good, not pushy but firm and I like this line:
I don't think I would be much of a friend to you if I just let this go

ZombieKitten said:

Thanks.

I really don't know how he'll respond or if he will even respond at all. I guess I'll just sit back and wait for a while.