Ottensen said:

Honesty though I didn't know she was such an annoying ass untill these "Precious" allegations and you & Ms.Cynda's inside stories(Although ya'll are pretty vague, you guys say you met the woman and that her attitude was stank but ya'll didn't get into further details).

Now, I'm not one to press mofos for some inside scoop but If we ever ran to each other, ya'll bitches will have to cancel all your plans coz I'm sealing a 8 inch needle on BOTH of your Jimmy Choos

Ottensen said:

I dont' know I haven't seen the show. But something tells me she'd keep on NOT shaving on GP.

Harlepolis said:

I told ya'll how she acted at the BET awards. And I've seen her yell at fans that she ain't signing no damn autographs. The fact that her publicist, who's worked for a bunch of bigger divas than her, quit after 2 weeks says it all.

SCNDLS said:

I wasn't even tryna 'police' the thread.
I wasn't even being serious.
I guess I had to put a "lol" smiley at the end of my post...sry

JayJai said:

Well, then why'd you use the serious face emoticon if you weren't being serious? Whatevs

SCNDLS said:

Sometimes I think it's hard to take "emoticons" seriously in the first place. Can you truly express seriousness with a little yellow man head in a post? I feel like all of them are meant to express some level of humor.

I usually only take this one seriously:



And this was none of my business, I just felt like saying that

PurpleRighteous1 said:

Me too but I take the to mean "seriously" Especially in combination with a comment that was repeating someone else's criticism about our conversation. ( )

ernestsewell said:

aint too hard to make Mariah look plain. without make up she looks like a mon chi chi.

kenlacam said:

You actually made me choke.

This is an insider's open letter...

An Open Letter regarding the film Precious: Based on the Novel Push by Sapphire: How Lee Daniels, Oprah Winfrey, Tyler Perry and Hollywood have failed the black community

By: Anthony Smith

The central themes in black communities across the U.S. and in Harlem are not ones of Incest, Rape, Teenage Pregnancy, Physical and Mental Child Abuse, Obesity, Poverty, Welfare, Illiteracy, and AIDS. Yet, in marketing the motion picture, Precious: Based on the Novel Push by Sapphire, the producer and director, Lee Daniels boldly affirms that, “I know this chick. You know her. But we just choose not to know her.”[1] Rather by choice or circumstance, let me be the first to say that I do not know Precious, and I have a hunch that most other black Americans do not know her either. This film is as dangerous as it is offensive, and it is not representative of any community, past or present. The narrative about a young, unloved victim is intellectually and socially dishonest. Daniels relies on overly objectionable imagery and perverse cinematic devices to provoke emotion from the audience, all the while offering no true explanation of events, no link between cause and effect, no solution and no opportunity to deliberate, just action – vile, disgusting, and inhumane acts of violence, apathy, abuse and rape. Moreover, Daniels, similar to the cinematic tendencies of Executive Producer Tyler Perry, equates light-skinned black characters as friendly, virtuous saviors, working to counteract the ugly, evil, stupid and animal-like dark-skinned characters. What a shame!


Precious is not a triumph of artistic, scientific or social measures. The Academy, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association, the various Hollywood guilds and critics associations should recognize this picture for the dangerous, dishonest minstrel show that it is and vehemently reject its candidacy for consideration of any outstanding achievement. Any award bestowed upon this film throughout the 82nd Annual Oscar Race is one award too many. The American people should heed this warning before handing over their hard-earned money for this picture, because this is not entertainment and it surely is not worth paying for. The irony in Precious, is that while the film depicts the inexplicable, inexorable, collaborative failure of this girl by others, Daniels is the one ultimately failing her (and the entire black community).

Tyler Perry, irrespective of medium, holds steadfast in his commitment to degrade black Americans. Thus, his overt enthusiasm for this picture following the 2009 Sundance makes sense. However, what can one surmise about Oprah Winfrey’s surprising lapse in judgment in agreeing to hock this film as Executive Producer? Winfrey has earned her immense wealth serving as a safeguard, a purveyor of taste with respect to pop culture. Her appeal transcends both race and socioeconomics, and America loves her – black America, white America, straight America, and gay America. If Winfrey commands the public to see a picture, read a book, eat at a restaurant or vote for a Presidential candidate, we do just that! Therefore, I am most offended by her endorsement. And with her substantial resources, is this really the best story that she can offer to the world in 2009? I sure hope not. However, Ms. Winfrey, if this is, indeed, your best, please allow me an opportunity to interview for a position on your team. I have a few ideas aimed at improving your efforts.

It is 2009 and sadly, Hollywood is stuck in the dark ages. An industry that touts the membership of progressive-minded professionals and artists is, in fact, staunchly conservative in its refusal to finance, produce and distribute quality motion pictures by and for people of color. I make a sincere plea to all key decision makers at the major studios to rethink their diversity strategy.[2] Include more talent diversity in your major label features and tentpoles. For pictures predominately about people of color, of different cultural origins, sexual orientations and religious affiliations, consider making honest investments in development, to actually produce a quality picture. These stories, like your audiences, deserve to be treated with integrity. That’s all.

Harlepolis said:

I love you dearly, Harle, but Anthony Smith can kiss my entire black ass.

If he wants to lay blame to anyone, why not place it squarely at the feet of the woman from whose mind this tale was birthed into creation? Why not persecute Sapphire for breathing such a horrific story into the public realm of consciousness in the first place? Since we could start with her, why don't we reach back to Toni Morrison for failing the black community in airing our rather disdainful cultural laundry by writing The Bluest Eye, Love or Song of Solomon? Or Alice Walker for writing The Color Purple, or Gloria Naylor for every last book that has poured forth from her fingertips since the inception of her career ?.

Between all these women and scores of others, these authors have sold enough books to pollute the minds of millions(in dozens of countries and over 25 languages!) with their tales of dysfunction, addiction, debauchery, fetishes, violence, and black self-hate. Their books are being made into the films that are spreading these allegedy destructive images, so shouldn't they be the ones initially called to task? Or is it really then that at the end of the day, consumers have a choice to buy or read what they want and are capable of deeming for themselves what stories speak to them on a sociological, emotional, and spiritual level?

I will say that I have very fixed suspicions on why he (and others) will choose to marginalize Daniels and Perry for bringing this novel into the public realm of mass discourse, and frankly I'm not convinced it originates from some altruistic sense of humanity, connectedness, nor Black Pride. I believe, in fact, the most vehement objections will come from those who will come from a place of something completely opposite, much, much, other than,and all their bellowing about this film and its' contents will reek more of their own self-reflections or their inability to accept that we indeed have toxic cycles and unspeakable acts occurring in our culture, as has been throughout history, within every culture on earth.

In the interest of time and not wanting to get this thread moved to P&R (or simply shut down, immediately), I will save elaborations for later. But I will close for now by saying it is absolutely stunning to me that we have come to a point in society that we cannot observe a story being played out in a novel or on a screen, and be able to employ willing suspension of disbelief, nor invest ourselves in simple literary concepts such as the arc of hope ?

Are we truly that emotionally unintelligent and intellectually stunted that we have forgotten (that outside of food and physical security) basic needs of the human psychological pyramid are the desire to feel loved, wanted, and joyous relief from suffering? The idea of where and how far we go as human beings to feel that joy and relief is a worthy, albeit uncomfortable question that can and will venture into dark territory. The fact that Anthony Smith is so quick to jump on the buzzword bandwagon and deem this work a minstrel show is not only insulting to my intelligence, but to the intelligence of many who at least have some passing familiarity with basic human psychology and interest in exploring the human condition. What I find more dangerous than Daniels, Perry, or Winfrey bringing this film to light in all its' ragged, gut-wrenching blight, is Mr. Smith and those like him, who would rather these issues never be examined and brought to consciousness for greater understanding, and the chance that this story might open one pair of eyes to the idea that no one is invisible, we all hurt, we all are worthy, and there is an entire world that exists inside of every human being that walks this earth whether it's heavenly or horrific, whether the rest of us are privy to it or not

Anthony Smith can go jump in the lake. I can't think of anyone I know that hasn't been abused or knows someone who has. And when did Lee Daniels say he was speaking for the entire Black community?

Harlepolis said:

bullshit.



I'm in the midst of reading the book now and it's a product of the setting. I dont' know about the movie but the book takes place in the late '80's and Precious herself goes on and on about who is light skinned and who is dark. If anything it's a commentary ABOUT those struggles. The difference in how light-skinned and dark-skinned folks are perceived, treated, etc.

Harlepolis said:

Damn,that is one harsh review/analysis! I'm still gonna go see it.

Ottensen said:

You touch on so many points I don't even know where to begin so I'll just say thank you for taking the time to post a well-rounded thoughtful response. Not that I'd expect anything less from you.

Ottensen said:

and

And ya'll KNOW how I feel about TP, but to me this movie is not that and I ain't even seen it yet but based simply on the previews I know it's not a minstrel show. Dude, just hates the possibility or reality that this story IS part of OUR story and that of every other group of humans on the planet.

SCNDLS said:

You can't solve a problem if you pretend it doesn't exist.

Abuse happens. Women and children are sexually, physically and verbally abused all over the planet in every culture. These stories need to be told.

CarrieMpls said:

I digress, a little.

It's seems so strange to me that in every race there is issue with darker or lighter. In Mexico if you're dark some people look down on you because you look more Indian (Aztec, Mayan, Totonaca) than Spanish.

It pisses me off.

Ottensen said:

Say no more

Negros have always been suffering from short memory,,,,OR selective memory in this case.

The Color Purple is raising hell in broadway, where's Mr.Smith from all of that?

Mind you, his heart is probably in the right place,,,,,and like me, I'm sure he's striving for "balance" when it comes to the portrayal of black people in the media.

However, many black people can't help being enthusiastic about this for the simple fact there's an obvious shortage of black films nowadays(Its cricketville when Tyler Perry is not releasing his Amos N' Andy tribute movies).

What I'm saying is, its NOT Hollywood's fault anymore as it is our fault as well.

It seems that whenever a black personality get into the mainstream territory, they forget the struggle. Coppola, Scorsese, Spielberg, Woody Allen and many white directors/actors have always helped young and upcoming indie directors,,,,,Spike Lee is the only person who I think have been supportive to the indie filmmakers without PUSHING his agenda to the forefront(like Tyler is doing with Precious) other than him, I can't think of anybody else.

Will Smith is holding on to that money, so does Denzel, so does Bob Johnosn and so does Oprah(unless, lik Tyler she's pushing an agenda),,,,and thats FINE, its their choice.

But I stopped blaming hollywood because they don't have to be obliged to tell our stories if we're not obliged or enthusiastic to tell it ourselves.
[Edited 11/12/09 8:36am]

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Growing up in Austin, many of the middle/upper class Mexicans I knew would make it a point to tell you they were Castillian (Spanish).

SCNDLS said:

It's the same thing in Puerto Rico.
We're a mix of Taino (native indians), Spanish ("light skinned") conquistadores and African slaves. Pretty much any of us can produce a baby that falls within that spectrum of color, yet some folk still put a lot of importance on being light-skinned and of Spanish descent. I hate that ridiculous shit.

johnart said:

One of my closest friends is a Rican. She has four kids by the same dude, 2 girls and a set of twin boys. The oldest girl, looks like J-Lo with straight black hair, 2nd girl much deeper shade of brown with hair down to her ass BUT she needs to perm it, both of the boys are darker, with one being real dark and they call him "negro" and always joke that he could be my son

SCNDLS said:

She keeps telling him that he'll wish he was.
In Rican culture "negro" or variations on it (negrito, negrita...little dark one) don't always have quite the same connotations as the English/American term Negro. Some people actually use it as a term of endearment, tho probably not the folk who get hung up on Spanish descent (there's even many songs in Latin culture that use the term) but of course this varies from person to person and family to family.
That said, if that child is being brought up here where the word carries different sentiments...I dunno, that could be strange.

What I don't like is that she could use the term in the context of he's special because he's unique/beautiful in their family and make it an embracing thing, but when you start telling a kid "You could be so and so's kid" instead... yeah, that could be a little
[Edited 11/12/09 9:24am]

I'm going to try and see this movie tomorrow. I'm hearing so many raving reviews about it.

johnart said:

Preach!


Any people of Indian descent? I heard it's also like that in India.
[Edited 11/12/09 9:50am]

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Centuries of colonialism and slavery is a mfer, Miguel. The entire world is still infected with this backward thinking. The media/Madison Avenue is no help either. It's not going away anytime soon.

All my Puerto-Rican friends tell me marrying someone of a lighter shade("marrying up") is encouraged in their families. The middle-eastern/asian folks I work with tell me similar stories.

johnart said:

That's true Johnart, and many of the Puerto Ricans also have the same ancestors as the Black Caribbeans (Africans/Arawaks/Caribs) in the Caribbean, i.e, Virgin Islands, Trinidad, Jamaica, but you won't find too many Puerto Ricans that will admit that. but it's in their DNA.
[Edited 11/12/09 10:11am]

This is getting heavy,,,,,intersting however...

Does Hollywood Still Have a Brown Paper Bag Test?
By: Jada F. Smith

When it comes to colorism, “Precious” is still the same old, same old.

I’ve been accused a time or two of being a little too color-struck, reading too deeply into decisions that could have been made based on pure happenstance. Yes, I rooted for the Jiggaboos in Spike Lee’s School Daze, and sure, I happen to find Idris Elba a helluva lot more attractive than Chris Brown, but I am no colorist. I wish, however, that I could say the same for Hollywood executives who cast black movies.

The new movie Precious: Based on the Novel Push by Sapphire sheds some much needed light on socioeconomic issues that haven’t changed much since the 1996 release of Sapphire’s book, Push. But the film’s casting also sheds light on how little color issues have changed since the Jiggaboos and the Wannabes first had it out in Madame Re-Re’s Hair Salon a few decades ago.

Call it over-analyzing, but is it a coincidence that Precious’ dark-skinned mother is physically and verbally abusive, her dark-skinned father is a drug addict who rapes her, and the main character herself is a dark-skinned 16-year-old mother of two? Meanwhile, the teacher, social worker and nurse who uplift and bring positivity into her life are all light-skinned.

Black entertainment has made little progress in the last century when it comes to colorism. Both dark- and light-skinned blacks continue to be cast in roles that perpetuate stereotypes within our own community. Light-skinned people are good; dark-skinned people are bad. Light-skinned people live comfortably; dark-skinned people live in the projects. Don’t believe that colorism is still seeping into our psyches? Read Monique Fields’ piece about her 4-year-old daughter who told her, “Brown people drive old cars.”

Most of the mainstream black entertainers are light-skinned because the Wannabes are still favored over the Jiggaboos. Chocolate folks don’t get much love, even when black people are producing the films and television roles. Pretty much every other Tyler Perry film has a dark-skinned male aggressor and light-skinned male savior (Shemar Moore vs. Steve Harris in Diary Of A Mad Black Woman and Blair Underwood vs. Boris Kodjoe in Madea’s Family Reunion).

When a character gets replaced on a sitcom, their complexion usually gets lighter (from Janet Hubert-Whitten to Daphne Maxwell-Reid on The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and Jazz Raycole to Jennifer Freeman on My Wife and Kids). And the biggest black entertainers right now could probably all pass a brown paper bag test (Beyoncé, Rihanna, Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, Tyra Banks, Alicia Keys).

If darker-skinned actors can’t get decent portrayal in a film like Precious, well, where can they?

Harlepolis said:

i haven't read the book but does it mention what ethnicity the social worker & the teacher are?

PricelessHo said:

Haven't read the book yet either(its been collecting dust in my shelf ever since I loaned it from my sis).

The teacher was dark skinned and gay(from a review I read) and I'm assuming that the social worker was white becuase of the Helen Mirren casting