thepope2the9s said:

Some Manchurian Candidate type shit

thepope2the9s said:

There is another branch on the same tree. Sleeper cell type individuals who are put into motion.

Anyone?...I have a ten foot pole... Anyone??

SCNDLS said:

Doh! You said the magic word. Can I come?

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Shit, we can have an End of the World Org Invasion in Vegas.

tinaz said:

I know right...calm down.

thepope2the9s said:

oh ok...are those young guys....columbine shooters and the guy at Virginia tech part of it?

now 8 people shot in Orlando Florida....what the hell is going on....?

tinaz said:

My sister was just there last week

kpowers said:

Oh dear

SCNDLS said:

He has been bringing troops home from Iraq. He never said he would quit Afghanistan.

SCNDLS said:

Afghanistan is not a civil war. It's the Taliban attempting to return to power.
Iraq so far has avoided a civil war.
I don't think Afghanis prefer the Taliban.

SUPRMAN said:

Russians couldnt win, but we will.....

thepope2the9s said:

Exactly!

tinaz said:

Why was it "the worst experience ever"? I had a lot of American friends while they were here in Germany and most of them loved it here.

728huey said:

Over here ( in Germany) they said that the killer is of Jordanian/Palestinian descent but was born and raised in the USA.He didn´t want to be deployed to Iraq and he got bullied by his comrades because of his religion and his background and freaked out because of all the pent up anger inside.

Judging by his clothes that he used to wear in his freetime, he must be a pretty strict follower of his religion.
I´m actually surprised that he is the first Arab-American soldier who freaks out because of the pressure.And why didn´t they stop him before he freaked out?

butterfli25 said:

Yeah. I was attending the college graduation of my friend at the Howse Theater building some 50 meters from the shooting. Crazy stuff.

SCNDLS said:

I think this excerpt is an excellent assessment of current events regarding Afghanistan. This is not describing a civil war;

"The election has been a debacle for both Afghanistan and the West. It cost $300m, but it has deepened the country’s crisis. Since the vote, more than 170 NATO soldiers have been killed. Ever more Westerners understandably ask why their compatriots must keep dying to prop up the inept and corrupt Mr Karzai. Opinion in Britain is souring fast. This week five soldiers killed by an Afghan policeman added to the country’s heavy casualties.

Afghans, too, are losing faith in the West. The American military commander in Kabul, General Stanley McChrystal, has asked for a big reinforcement—rumoured to be about 40,000 extra troops, which would make NATO’s deployment bigger than the Soviet Union’s ill-fated one—to “gain the initiative and reverse insurgent momentum”. He says that without more Western troops and massively larger Afghan forces, more Afghans could throw in their lot with the Taliban. If so, the West will fail. His counter-insurgency plan seeks to protect the Afghan population and win its allegiance to a legitimate Afghan government. That is why this election has been so damaging: Mr Karzai’s legitimacy is what has suffered most.

Mr Karzai has a way of ignoring his Western protectors. But he should not think that he is safe for the next five years, or that America needs him more than he needs it. Mr Obama must soon make his decision, put off for the past two months, on whether to heed General McChrystal’s call for more troops, and stake his presidency on the Afghan war. Those, including this newspaper, who have advocated a big surge are finding it harder to sustain the case. Many in Mr Obama’s entourage think it is time to give up on Afghanistan; if that happens, Mr Karzai will not survive in power.

What Karzai must do
One would hope that Mr Obama made this threat explicit in his private telephone call to Mr Karzai where he offered those mistaken congratulations. This week Mr Karzai promised to remove the “stigma” of corruption and form an inclusive government that will be a “mirror of Afghanistan”. He even urged “our Taliban brothers to come home”.

These are fine words but it is deeds that count. Mr Karzai must appoint competent ministers and replace the sycophants in his palace; he should prosecute corrupt officials; he should move his brother, Ahmad Wali, accused of being both a drugs lord and in the pay of the CIA, away from his power-base in Kandahar; and he should boost programmes to woo Taliban fighters. Above all he should launch a reform of the constitution, devolving some of his over-centralised powers to parliament, and to provincial and district governors. Best of all would be to entrust that task to his rival, Dr Abdullah.

Is that a vain hope? Mr Karzai may yet be able to regain his authority, as most Afghans will care more about what he does with power than about how he got it. "

http://www.economist.com/...d=14802295

thepope2the9s said:

But we aren't looking to stay.
Different motivations for the two different wars.

KoolEaze said:

thats what i read as well but I also read he was upset about 9/11 which im not sure is true, ive heard he was upset cause he didn't want to kill his fellow believers.

KoolEaze said:

Stop him how?
Prior to the attack he didn't present himself as a threat to himself or others.

[Edited]
After the shootings, details emerged about Major Hasan. His parents were from Palestine, but he was raised in Virginia. He was scheduled to deploy for the first time later this month, to Afghanistan. A cousin told the New York Times that he was “mortified” by the idea of going to war and was desperate to avoid it. Religion quickly cast its long shadow over the discussion: another relative said that the gunman had been harassed for being a Muslim, and there were reports that the FBI had been investigating blog posts attributed to “Nidal Hasan” that praised suicide bombers and compared them to war heroes.

Elsewhere, Americans were grasping for explanations. The most likely is that the killer was merely a deranged and isolated individual. But right-wing bloggers and talk-radio hosts have focused on his religion: he had stopped in a convenience store dressed in a traditional white robe and hat on the morning of the attack, and there were reports that he had yelled “Allahu Akbar” before the shootings. Another interpretation suggests that Major Hasan was suffering from the stressful experience of military service during wartime, even if the psychiatrist had not, yet, been deployed into combat.

Now questions will be asked afresh about army morale, and about systems for providing support to troubled individuals. Suicide rates among American soldiers are rising, and the Pentagon has promised $50m to a study that is attempting to answer why. At the same time Barack Obama is mulling army operations in Afghanistan. He will soon announce his strategy for the war in that country, responding to a request from his generals for an additional force of perhaps 40,000 soldiers to be deployed. With one war winding down in Iraq and another in Afghanistan bringing gloomier news by the day, the army also must think again how it should cope with some dreadful anxieties among its soldiers at home.
http://www.economist.com/...s_box_main

SUPRMAN said:

No, he didn´t ....but they knew he was a pretty strict follower of his religion, otherwise he wouldn´t walk around in that white robe despite being raised in the USA, and they knew that Muslims pretty often get bullied in the Army and that there´s a lot of potential for feeling alienated...then again,this guy is a psychiatrist and maybe they didn´t find it necessary to send a shrink to a shrink.
If he were in the Turkish Army, for example, with that kind of wardrobe and attitude, he would be under scrutiny most of the time because despite consisting of soldiers with a Muslim background, they keep an eye on fundamentalists inside and outside of the Army. Seems like the American Army attracts a lot of nutjobs and simpleminded individuals, and I´m not only talking about Nidal Hasan but also those who bullied him.Reminds me of that American guard in Guantanamo who converted to Islam and got bullied by his comrades all the time. I think if a person decides to join the Army, then he should know not to bully his comrades, regardless of their religion.

I had friends in the US Army who were living proof that the Army sometimes attracts the weirdest,most messed up and violent people who only join because they have no alternative. In this day and age, with homeland security and all kinds of scrutiny going on, they should know better and keep their soldiers, all of them, in check.

KoolEaze said:

I had him in an army hospital...THAT is what was the worst ever! We loved being in germany! In fact we were discussing this morning for our 25th anniversary we would LOVE to go back and visit! Its a GORGEOUS place rich in history, and festivals, wonderful people, and the food...OMG We lived in a tiny town outside Kitzigen, and our landlords were such wonderful people we didnt even try to get base housing!

KoolEaze said:

Turkey is a Muslim nation, so why would his dress have attracted attention? Much more of his countrymen would be similarly dressed.
I'm sure the U.S. Army also follows up, but with no overt action or communication, who is the mind reader to find these people?
Should Christian fundamentalist be similarly scrutinized?
And in spite of whatever 'potential' there may be, is that actionable by law enforcement? Of course not.

SUPRMAN said:

Are you kidding me? Yes, Turkey has a 90% Muslim population but of those 90%, only half are probably practising their religion, much like most Americans are nominally Christian but not necessarily devout people. In Turkey people would look at you if you dressed that way. Only radical fringe groups dress like that, and there is a strict separation between religion and state. A man dressed like that in his free time would never be tolerated in the Army, especially not in a high position such as this man held....but I digress, this thread is not about Turkish Muslims and the way they dress.

Even most Palestininans wouldn´t walk around dressed like that. It´s obvious and plain to see from the way that this man dresses what his attitude is. They should have spoken to him waaaay before this happened. So many American soldiers of Muslim descent get bullied and harrassed by their comrades, and even non-Muslim soldiers get bullied when they criticize some other soldiers´ behaviour but the Army seems to be blind when it comes to these issues.This tragedy was bound to happen. Either they´re very idiotic or they´re doing certain things on purpose.

KoolEaze said:

So he's not allowed to dress as he chooses? That makes him worth being spoken to?
How is his attitude "obvious and plain to see" from the way he dresses? One is not necessarily indicative of the other.
That's sounds like he should be stereotyped based on his clothing.
So I guess a woman in a mini-skirt . . . it can be concluded that it's "obvious and plaint to see" from her dress what her attitude is? By your analogy that should be a defense for rape.

SUPRMAN said:

Great analogy. Again, I was there in the building next to the scene when it all happened. Even then, the moment we found out who it was I heard such stereotyping responses such as "it figures" and such ignornance infuriates me.

KoolEaze said:

Weird, in this country and particularly in the city I live in MANY in the Muslim community wear their traditional religious robes and no one even bats an eyelash.

Clothing certainly doesn't raise any suspicions around these parts.