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Printable2elijah said: vainandy said: They are doing it for pure comedy reasons just like the white actors are. The characters in the Divine movies would not have been near as funny if a female had played the part and John Travolta did an excellent job in the remake of "Hairspray". Some of the funniest episodes of "Three's Company" are the three episodes where Jack Tripper dresses in drag, one of them was so funny that "What's Happening Now" stole the idea and Raj dressed in drag to damn near the same script as the "Three's Company" episode. I'm not a big Wesley Snipes fan but if you are referring to "Too Wong Foo", there was also a white man and a hispanic man dressed in drag because it was a film about drag queens. Men dressing as women is just much more funny than getting a woman actor to play the part because half the fun is seeing how well they can pull the gestures off. If they pull them off really well, it's funny because you immediately think "Damn, my grandmother walks or sits just like that" and if they don't pull them off well, it's still funny because they look so un-natural. That's just comedy across the board that many people of all races find humorous. John Travolta doesn't seem to have that much of a problem getting a leading role in Hollywood, nor is he still fighting to be recognized and respected as a First Class citizen in America. He dressed as a woman once in a role to my knowledge. I can't agree with all of what you stated in your post, but I do understand where you are going with this. You see, any woman could have played those parts as comical roles. I'm not saying that Black Men should never take a roll dressed as a female, but too many Black actors have been doing that way too often. Even big old Ving Rhames did that. Blacks are basically still in the process of trying to get rid of many of these stereotypes. There's still too many, negative assumptions of them in the media. I understand what others here are saying when they state they want to see Blacks in roles that represent specific, social lifestlyes. How about a drama series for a change instead of a sitcom? Do you know that if you look at the Africa channel, that even Africans have soap operas, and informative programs that deal with social/economic/health and political issues of Africa? I don't see stereotypical, assumed and ignorant images of them living in primitive fashion, on their channels. If there's a documentary on Africans that are not living in what we know as modern-day life, then it's usually just that, based on a documentary of a specific African, ethnic group. But most don't even think Africans live in major cities in Africa, and yet there are Africans in Africa, living lifestyles similar to those in America, just a different culture, as a whole. They even have African filmmakers who have been making films for years with African actors/actresses, and they're doing a good job of it. I've watched several African movies. Problem with America, is that they'll only show you parts of Africa that are war-torn or poor areas, like images of children/women starving. Well there's developed cities in Africa. Working, business women and men, entrepreneurs, etc. The media is a powerful tool and many get their education or "first look" of how specific groups are portrayed, from the media. So constant, specific or negative images displayed in the media. can mislead one to believe certain groups of people all live the same way. It is important to educate people that not everyone from a specific group, lives and breathes the same way. [Edited 10/26/09 20:55pm] I understand what you are saying but with black dramas, somebody would still find something wrong with it. I'd enjoy seeing a black drama like "Dallas", "Knot's Landing", or "Dynasty" but people would find something wrong with that because of a "superbitch" black Joan Collins type character. They'd say..."once again, portraying black women as bitches". Or if there was a male JR type character, they'd say..."why do black folks always have to play the villan". Or if there was a lot of sleeping around, they'd say...."they are portraying black people as permiscuous". All these things happened on the white nighttime dramas and without those things, the shows would have been boring because all sunshine and happiness all the time is very boring even on the white shows. . . . [Edited 10/26/09 21:54pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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ThreadBare said: 1) I'm snitching to Luv4u to snip all you folks who used the real n-word in your posts.
2) Now, with that out of the way  , I have to respond to the argument that Will Ferrel's immature, man-child movies get made without Spielberg hopping all over him and Judd Apatow:
The difference is simple -- black cinema (where the plot revolves around black people, especially black professional couples) doesn't enjoy nearly the same diversity as white cinema: Any given weekend, I can see "Stepbrothers" Friday night, "The Reader" Saturday morning, "The Proposal" Saturday night and the latest Jason Statham or Coen Brothers film Sunday. The grim truth is that 1990s black romance films like "The Wood," "Love Jones," and "Love & Basketball" stick out so much for black movie buffs because they are so singular. There's a movie like "The Proposal" or "New in Town" or "Ghosts of Girlfriends Past" released every FRICKIN' year! But, I'm still left to go back to "The Best Man" or "Love Jones" just to see black, artistic, professional folks who resemble me and my best friends navigate the single life? That's some bull. And, someone with Tyler Perry's influence and money ought to give a dang about correcting that. 3) His target market, since some seem hung up on how that market is characterized, consists largely of black churchgoers. And, I'm going to get even more specific and say that market is predominated by the sisters. I can't see too many dudes flocking to one of Perry's formulaic dreck machines that features a philanderer/misogynist traumatizing the lead character. Yes, the knight in black/brown armor eventually shows up and a gospel song gets sung near the end, but is it worth the self-inflicted pain to sit through one of his movies? Not for me. But, then again, I hated Martin Lawrence's show, too, and boycotted it. This thread's getting to me. I just need to chill and watch "The Man" or "Claudine" or "Crooklyn."  Dude, I love you  | |
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JackieBlue said: John Singleton spoke about black men in drag as well:
"There’s nothing but comedies, and I’m tired of all these Black men in dresses. Every other movie has a Black man in a dress, from the Madea movies to Norbit to Big Momma. How come nobody’s protesting that? They call them family movies, and nobody’s telling the little kids that it’s kind of different for a man to wear a dress. I’m just saying that it comes to a point where, if that’s the only types of images they’re seeing, how is that informing upon Black men in America? It’s as if all we can do is make people laugh and play basketball." I agree with John.I'm sick of seeing a movie where a black man is dressed in drag.I know these films are supposed to be "comedy",but enough already! That kind of humor is played out,imo. | |
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missfee said: Well, I sort of see both sides. Both have good points.
Spike's point of making quality movies that present African American's in positive images and not "buffonery" is valid when it comes to "House of Payne" and "Meet the Browns", however, while Spike's movies have presented African Americans in ways that Hollywood hasn't, as successful business owners, jazz musicians, civil right's leaders, etc., his movies don't always make sense to the public but make more sense to him. Tyler's point of using his main characters to bait his audience into hearing and understanding the underlying message that the movie is trying to give is a valid point as well, though, his characters are a little "out there" in confirming Hollywood's assumption as thats how "black people really are and how they act". As an African American myself, I believe that Spike Lee should have given Tyler his props as well as point out the negative, rather than just soley shooting him down and saying that his work is basically plain old garbage. But like Tyler was implying in the interview, or at least the part I saw, it's a shame that the support can't be established for up and coming African American directors, instead, complaints and negative comments are made. Spike could have at least given him some advice on to how to turn his "buffoonery" style around, instead of just complaining about it. But in our community, that's just how it is. We don't support our own. Some people may not like what I have just said, but that's just a fact. Plain and simple. Thats just my two cents. [Edited 10/25/09 18:49pm] Well said, Fee. | |
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SoulAlive said: JackieBlue said: John Singleton spoke about black men in drag as well:
"There’s nothing but comedies, and I’m tired of all these Black men in dresses. Every other movie has a Black man in a dress, from the Madea movies to Norbit to Big Momma. How come nobody’s protesting that? They call them family movies, and nobody’s telling the little kids that it’s kind of different for a man to wear a dress. I’m just saying that it comes to a point where, if that’s the only types of images they’re seeing, how is that informing upon Black men in America? It’s as if all we can do is make people laugh and play basketball." I agree with John.I'm sick of seeing a movie where a black man is dressed in drag.I know these films are supposed to be "comedy",but enough already! That kind of humor is played out,imo. yeah, esp. because they will never be as good as Divine | |
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vainandy said: I understand what you are saying but with black dramas, somebody would still find something wrong with it. I'd enjoy seeing a black drama like "Dallas", "Knot's Landing", or "Dynasty" but people would find something wrong with that because of a "superbitch" black Joan Collins type character. They'd say..."once again, portraying black women as bitches". Or if there was a male JR type character, they'd say..."why do black folks always have to play the villan". Or if there was a lot of sleeping around, they'd say...."they are portraying black people as permiscuous". All these things happened on the white nighttime dramas and without those things, the shows would have been boring because all sunshine and happiness all the time is very boring even on the white shows. . . . [Edited 10/26/09 21:54pm] People will criticize until the end of time, but that doesn't mean Black filmmakers shouldn't create these type of personalities in shows. There are women in all races that have strong personalities, and quite frankly, the strong women stereotype, no matter what race, will never go away, because they do exist. Considering the reality that many Black women are raising their kids without their fathers, and that strong women image for many, is not a negative stereotype, it's a reality. No one is saying you can't have various personalities, and thanks to many black films within the past 3 or 4 years, we've seen various personalities of Black women. Not to mention, they are in mainstream films as well, playing all types of roles, and not "unusual" or "surprising", like back in the day to see them in those roles. Unfortunately, there are not enough good, leading roles for Black men or women especially in Hollywood. [Edited 10/27/09 8:26am] | |
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When was the last time u saw Spielberg slam Goerge Lucas in public? | |
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Graycap23 said: When was the last time u saw Spielberg slam Goerge Lucas in public?
Word! 
To me, Spike Lee just comes off as being jealous of Tyler Perry. In 5-10 years another black (african american) film director will come along, then what? Spike and Tyler will be hating on her or him?
I would just be proud that we have these film directors out there offering jobs to people we have never heard or seen before. There is enough pie for everyone out there. Stop being greedy..jeez. “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist.” Brazilian bishop Dom Hélder Câmara |
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vainandy said: SCNDLS said:
And I have already shared my distate on other threads about him being YET another black male actor that needs to put on a dress and wig to make a movie. I realize that black movies and entertainment has been far less diverse than white entertainment but white men have been doing the same thing for ages. Divine did it in all his movies and appearances on "All In The Family", Harvey Korman did it on "The Carol Burnett Show" during the "As The Stomach Turns" sketch, Mike Myers did on "Saturday Night Live" when he dressed as the Church Lady and when he dressed as the Jewish lady that was always saying "buttah", and so on and so on. It's been going on since the old days of the Shakespeare plays when only men were allowed to act so they dressed in drag to play the female parts. It's not like Tyler Perry started dressing in drag to be a clown for white people because he started doing it in plays where there were very few, if any, white people in the audience. I can understand some blacks being offended by the stereotypes he has in his shows because there are definately plenty in them, but as for the dressing in drag part, that's been done by white entertainers forever. Yeah, I get that but it's STILL not the same as Thread explained and I concur with.  | |
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Graycap23 said: When was the last time u saw Spielberg slam Goerge Lucas in public?
C'mon that's not fair. He didn't "slam" TP. He was asked a question and answered it. This is the same type o' shit the media does to TO. If you sit down for an interview it makes sense that you're gonna be asked questions about your peers. Especially if you're viewed as some sort of authority which Spike is. Do you know for a fact that Spielberg has never answered a question in an interview about Lucas that some might view as disparaging? Maybe he has and nobody said anything or made it an issue because he's just giving his opinion as a white man. But if you're black and critique another black person you MUST be hatin'  | |
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SCNDLS said: ThreadBare said: This thread's getting to me. I just need to chill and watch "The Man" or "Claudine" or "Crooklyn."
Sorry, but I didn't get past #1 
 Go watch "Uptown Saturday Night". Love that movie, especially Harry Belafonte as ol' Geechie Dan Buford. ".....I'm coming back here and pick up yo' liver!" |
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uPtoWnNY said: SCNDLS said: Sorry, but I didn't get past #1
Go watch "Uptown Saturday Night". Love that movie, especially Harry Belafonte as ol' Geechie Dan Buford. ".....I'm coming back here and pick up yo' liver!"  Love that movie! | |
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SCNDLS said: Graycap23 said: When was the last time u saw Spielberg slam Goerge Lucas in public?
C'mon that's not fair. He didn't "slam" TP. He was asked a question and answered it. This is the same type o' shit the media does to TO. If you sit down for an interview it makes sense that you're gonna be asked questions about your peers. Especially if you're viewed as some sort of authority which Spike is. Do you know for a fact that Spielberg has never answered a question in an interview about Lucas that some might view as disparaging? Maybe he has and nobody said anything or made it an issue because he's just giving his opinion as a white man. But if you're black and critique another black person you MUST be hatin' The perception is that he slammed TP. Ask Perry. | |
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Graycap23 said: SCNDLS said: C'mon that's not fair. He didn't "slam" TP. He was asked a question and answered it. This is the same type o' shit the media does to TO. If you sit down for an interview it makes sense that you're gonna be asked questions about your peers. Especially if you're viewed as some sort of authority which Spike is. Do you know for a fact that Spielberg has never answered a question in an interview about Lucas that some might view as disparaging? Maybe he has and nobody said anything or made it an issue because he's just giving his opinion as a white man. But if you're black and critique another black person you MUST be hatin' The perception is that he slammed TP. Ask Perry. I know that's the perception but that's not the reality of what happened if people read his actual statement which was part of a larger interview. That's just the part that the media focused on cuz they knew it would cause controversy. Again, same thing as TO. Same game, different players. | |
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perry & lee have different ways
of expressing similar messages is it more of a regional difference because someone made a good point when they mentioned southern versus northern american culture influencing character portrayals in black movies if u look at northeast rappers & compare their swagger, etc., to southern rappers u see very differnt images of the african- amercan male but instead of jumping on the defense and attacking our differences there needs 2 be a productive dialogue emerging because we all share similar struggles & aspirations | |
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SCNDLS said: uPtoWnNY said: Go watch "Uptown Saturday Night". Love that movie, especially Harry Belafonte as ol' Geechie Dan Buford. ".....I'm coming back here and pick up yo' liver!" Love that movie!and "Let's Do It Again!" with John Amos aka James Evans aka Kansas City Mack! "Kansas City Mack? Kansas City Mack! You think I work for that jive time country chump? I work for the new syndicate! All I do is move money from one city to the next! Now they want that money with me in Chicago! Will you tell this child to get this gun outta my face!!" - all the time smackin' her gum! I think the actress name was Denise Nicholas. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: SCNDLS said: Love that movie!and "Let's Do It Again!" with John Amos aka James Evans aka Kansas City Mack! "Kansas City Mack? Kansas City Mack! You think I work for that jive time country chump? I work for the new syndicate! All I do is move money from one city to the next! Now they want that money with me in Chicago! Will you tell this child to get this gun outta my face!!" - all the time smackin' her gum! I think the actress name was Denise Nicholas.  yes you are correct and you just quoted one of my favorite scenes!!!!
Surprised nobody mentioned the all so sexy Silky Slim a.k.a. Calvin Lockhart b.k.a. Biggie Smalls.....whew child, that sexy voice, that sexual chocolate skin and that suave swagger.....  I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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Ottensen said: missfee said: Well, I sort of see both sides. Both have good points.
Spike's point of making quality movies that present African American's in positive images and not "buffonery" is valid when it comes to "House of Payne" and "Meet the Browns", however, while Spike's movies have presented African Americans in ways that Hollywood hasn't, as successful business owners, jazz musicians, civil right's leaders, etc., his movies don't always make sense to the public but make more sense to him. Tyler's point of using his main characters to bait his audience into hearing and understanding the underlying message that the movie is trying to give is a valid point as well, though, his characters are a little "out there" in confirming Hollywood's assumption as thats how "black people really are and how they act". As an African American myself, I believe that Spike Lee should have given Tyler his props as well as point out the negative, rather than just soley shooting him down and saying that his work is basically plain old garbage. But like Tyler was implying in the interview, or at least the part I saw, it's a shame that the support can't be established for up and coming African American directors, instead, complaints and negative comments are made. Spike could have at least given him some advice on to how to turn his "buffoonery" style around, instead of just complaining about it. But in our community, that's just how it is. We don't support our own. Some people may not like what I have just said, but that's just a fact. Plain and simple. Thats just my two cents. [Edited 10/25/09 18:49pm] Well said, Fee. Thanks. I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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SCNDLS said: uPtoWnNY said: Go watch "Uptown Saturday Night". Love that movie, especially Harry Belafonte as ol' Geechie Dan Buford. ".....I'm coming back here and pick up yo' liver!" Love that movie!Flip Wilson stole the movie as the Reverend. That sermon had me dying. And Paula Kelly as "Leggy Peggy" was too much! |
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uPtoWnNY said: SCNDLS said: Love that movie!Flip Wilson stole the movie as the Reverend. That sermon had me dying. And Paula Kelly as "Leggy Peggy" was too much! Loose lips, sinks ships!!!!I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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missfee said: DesireeNevermind said: and "Let's Do It Again!" with John Amos aka James Evans aka Kansas City Mack! "Kansas City Mack? Kansas City Mack! You think I work for that jive time country chump? I work for the new syndicate! All I do is move money from one city to the next! Now they want that money with me in Chicago! Will you tell this child to get this gun outta my face!!" - all the time smackin' her gum! I think the actress name was Denise Nicholas. yes you are correct and you just quoted one of my favorite scenes!!!!
Surprised nobody mentioned the all so sexy Silky Slim a.k.a. Calvin Lockhart b.k.a. Biggie Smalls.....whew child, that sexy voice, that sexual chocolate skin and that suave swagger..... My mom has this movie with him in it and it's called Disco 9000 I think. I watched it in awhile (its on VHS ) but I remember that he looked so handsome. My mom thought he was the shit. | |
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uPtoWnNY said: SCNDLS said: Love that movie!Flip Wilson stole the movie as the Reverend. That sermon had me dying. And Paula Kelly as "Leggy Peggy" was too much!  You ain't NEVA lied! And I wanted to BE Paula Kelly, especially after seeing her dance in Sweet Charity. She was an amazing, underated talent.
I played her in our high school's production of Sweet Charity.
This gon' be my theme song in 2010. Damn, that Fosse!
[Edited 10/27/09 11:19am] | |
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uPtoWnNY said: SCNDLS said: Love that movie!Flip Wilson stole the movie as the Reverend. That sermon had me dying. And Paula Kelly as "Leggy Peggy" was too much!  leggy peggy.
"Dem Nuccas interrupted one of da best rolls I eva had!" "Personally, I think Lil Seymour the one that done it!" OMG lil seymour!!! 
"I'm LiL Seymour" "AND I'M BIG PERCEY!" - echos | |
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DesireeNevermind said: SCNDLS said: Love that movie!and "Let's Do It Again!" with John Amos aka James Evans aka Kansas City Mack! "Kansas City Mack? Kansas City Mack! You think I work for that jive time country chump? I work for the new syndicate! All I do is move money from one city to the next! Now they want that money with me in Chicago! Will you tell this child to get this gun outta my face!!" - all the time smackin' her gum! I think the actress name was Denise Nicholas. 
Does anybody remember For the Love of Ivy, with Sidney Poitier and Abby Lincoln. He ran a casino out the back of an 18 wheeler trailer??? | |
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missfee said: uPtoWnNY said: Flip Wilson stole the movie as the Reverend. That sermon had me dying. And Paula Kelly as "Leggy Peggy" was too much! Loose lips, sinks ships!!!!okay, ya'll killin' me! | |
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SCNDLS said: DesireeNevermind said: and "Let's Do It Again!" with John Amos aka James Evans aka Kansas City Mack! "Kansas City Mack? Kansas City Mack! You think I work for that jive time country chump? I work for the new syndicate! All I do is move money from one city to the next! Now they want that money with me in Chicago! Will you tell this child to get this gun outta my face!!" - all the time smackin' her gum! I think the actress name was Denise Nicholas.
Does anybody remember For the Love of Ivy, with Sidney Poitier and Abby Lincoln. He ran a casino out the back of an 18 wheeler trailer???  
now that aint right at all. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: SCNDLS said:
Does anybody remember For the Love of Ivy, with Sidney Poitier and Abby Lincoln. He ran a casino out the back of an 18 wheeler trailer???
now that aint right at all. It was a cute movie tho.
She was a maid for a white family. Archie Bunker was the daddy, Jeff Bridges was the son. When she told them she was gon' quit the son and daughter decided she needed some dick in her life since she was a virgin and all. Enter Sidney fine ass. Turns out he runs a legit trucking biz by day and a moving, rolling casino by night. And somewhere in there Jeff Bridges declared his love for Ivy.
Now, that's a muthafuckin' movie!
Abby couldn't ack for shit but she's a well-known jazz singer and she was gorgeous.
[Edited 10/27/09 11:38am] | |
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SCNDLS said: DesireeNevermind said:
now that aint right at all. It was a cute movie tho.
She was a maid for a white family. Archie Bunker was the daddy, Jeff Bridges was the son. When she told them she was gon' quit the son and daughter decided she needed some dick in her life since she was a virgin and all. Enter Sidney fine ass. Turns out he runs a legit trucking biz by day and a moving, rolling casino by night. And somewhere in there Jeff Bridges declared his love for Ivy.
Now, that's a muthafuckin' movie!
[Edited 10/27/09 11:29am] Girl don't get me started on them Bridges bros. Have you seen "The Landlord"? It's old 70s flick I believe. I watched it for film class some years back. Beau Bridges is this privileged white boy who takes over a run down apartment complex in Harlem I think and he has an affair with this brothas (Louis Gosset Jr) wife. It's crazy and filled with all kinds of racial metaphors and allegories (sp). This lady Lee something (from Omen II) is his mom and when he tells her he got the black girl preggers she has this vision of being some southern belle entertaining all these little black kids at a picnic.
When Louis finds out his pregnant wife is carrying the white man's baby, he stars chasing Beau around the apartment and the whole time they're playing this jungle "ima kill you white boy" music. It's too crazy but I loved it. | |
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missfee said: uPtoWnNY said: Flip Wilson stole the movie as the Reverend. That sermon had me dying. And Paula Kelly as "Leggy Peggy" was too much! Loose lips, sinks ships!!!!"...and some of the lips in this congregation done sunk aircraft carriers!" Calvin Lockheart was the man - loved him as con-man preacher Deke O'Malley in "Cotton Comes to Harlem", and King Willie in "Predator 2". |
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King Willie in "Predator 2".
 | |
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