SCNDLS said:

I hear you loud and clear and respect your opinion.
[Edited 10/26/09 16:50pm]

Vendetta1 said:

Exactly what I said. But to elaborate, what I mean is, it's a shame that people talk about any stereotyping they feel is reflective in Tyler's work, while they themselves perpetuate those same and similar stereotypes. All of Spike Lee's characters for his movies have not exactly been representative of the vast demographic that is Black America.
[Edited 10/26/09 16:41pm]

Vendetta1 said:

I think she just talking bout the folk that say it's so stereotypical
of Tyler in his works when we as people all have a guilty pleasure of
enjoying buffoonery in some shape or form. When i say that i'm not talking
about no blackface type shit or steppin fetchit. I dare one person to tell
me that they didn't get a kick out of Martin Lawrence show during the 90's.
I laughed my ass off at Jerome and Martin playing Mama Payne.

Vendetta1 said:

Exactly what I said. But to elaborate, what I mean is, it's a shame that people talk about any stereotyping they feel is reflective in Tyler's work, while they themselves perpetuate those same and similar stereotypes. All of Spike Lee's characters for his movies have not exactly been representative of the vast demographic that is Black America.
[Edited 10/26/09 16:41pm]

I for one refuse to financially support Mr. Tyler's movies.

To each his or her own....

Historically Black men dressing up in drag portraying, salty tongue, take no prisoners "strong" Black women leaves me curious to what's really not being said. In order for some Black Men to find their backbone they have to wear a skirt?

1) I'm snitching to Luv4u to snip all you folks who used the real n-word in your posts.

2) Now, with that out of the way , I have to respond to the argument that Will Ferrel's immature, man-child movies get made without Spielberg hopping all over him and Judd Apatow:

The difference is simple -- black cinema (where the plot revolves around black people, especially black professional couples) doesn't enjoy nearly the same diversity as white cinema: Any given weekend, I can see "Stepbrothers" Friday night, "The Reader" Saturday morning, "The Proposal" Saturday night and the latest Jason Statham or Coen Brothers film Sunday.

The grim truth is that 1990s black romance films like "The Wood," "Love Jones," and "Love & Basketball" stick out so much for black movie buffs because they are so singular.

There's a movie like "The Proposal" or "New in Town" or "Ghosts of Girlfriends Past" released every FRICKIN' year! But, I'm still left to go back to "The Best Man" or "Love Jones" just to see black, artistic, professional folks who resemble me and my best friends navigate the single life?

That's some bull. And, someone with Tyler Perry's influence and money ought to give a dang about correcting that.

3) His target market, since some seem hung up on how that market is characterized, consists largely of black churchgoers. And, I'm going to get even more specific and say that market is predominated by the sisters. I can't see too many dudes flocking to one of Perry's formulaic dreck machines that features a philanderer/misogynist traumatizing the lead character. Yes, the knight in black/brown armor eventually shows up and a gospel song gets sung near the end, but is it worth the self-inflicted pain to sit through one of his movies?

Not for me. But, then again, I hated Martin Lawrence's show, too, and boycotted it.

This thread's getting to me. I just need to chill and watch "The Man" or "Claudine" or "Crooklyn."

1) I'm snitching to Luv4u to snip all you folks who used the real n-word in your posts.

2) Now, with that out of the way , I have to respond to the argument that Will Ferrel's immature, man-child movies get made without Spielberg hopping all over him and Judd Apatow:

The difference is simple -- black cinema (where the plot revolves around black people, especially black professional couples) doesn't enjoy nearly the same diversity as white cinema: Any given weekend, I can see "Stepbrothers" Friday night, "The Reader" Saturday morning, "The Proposal" Saturday night and the latest Jason Statham or Coen Brothers film Sunday.

The grim truth is that 1990s black romance films like "The Wood," "Love Jones," and "Love & Basketball" stick out so much for black movie buffs because they are so singular.

There's a movie like "The Proposal" or "New in Town" or "Ghosts of Girlfriends Past" released every FRICKIN' year! But, I'm still left to go back to "The Best Man" or "Love Jones" just to see black, artistic, professional folks who resemble me and my best friends navigate the single life?

That's some bull. And, someone with Tyler Perry's influence and money ought to give a dang about correcting that.

3) His target market, since some seem hung up on how that market is characterized, consists largely of black churchgoers. And, I'm going to get even more specific and say that market is predominated by the sisters. I can't see too many dudes flocking to one of Perry's formulaic dreck machines that features a philanderer/misogynist traumatizing the lead character. Yes, the knight in black/brown armor eventually shows up and a gospel song gets sung near the end, but is it worth the self-inflicted pain to sit through one of his movies?

Not for me. But, then again, I hated Martin Lawrence's show, too, and boycotted it.

This thread's getting to me. I just need to chill and watch "The Man" or "Claudine" or "Crooklyn."

1) I'm snitching to Luv4u to snip all you folks who used the real n-word in your posts.

2) Now, with that out of the way , I have to respond to the argument that Will Ferrel's immature, man-child movies get made without Spielberg hopping all over him and Judd Apatow:

The difference is simple -- black cinema (where the plot revolves around black people, especially black professional couples) doesn't enjoy nearly the same diversity as white cinema: Any given weekend, I can see "Stepbrothers" Friday night, "The Reader" Saturday morning, "The Proposal" Saturday night and the latest Jason Statham or Coen Brothers film Sunday.

The grim truth is that 1990s black romance films like "The Wood," "Love Jones," and "Love & Basketball" stick out so much for black movie buffs because they are so singular.

There's a movie like "The Proposal" or "New in Town" or "Ghosts of Girlfriends Past" released every FRICKIN' year! But, I'm still left to go back to "The Best Man" or "Love Jones" just to see black, artistic, professional folks who resemble me and my best friends navigate the single life?

That's some bull. And, someone with Tyler Perry's influence and money ought to give a dang about correcting that.

3) His target market, since some seem hung up on how that market is characterized, consists largely of black churchgoers. And, I'm going to get even more specific and say that market is predominated by the sisters. I can't see too many dudes flocking to one of Perry's formulaic dreck machines that features a philanderer/misogynist traumatizing the lead character. Yes, the knight in black/brown armor eventually shows up and a gospel song gets sung near the end, but is it worth the self-inflicted pain to sit through one of his movies?

Not for me. But, then again, I hated Martin Lawrence's show, too, and boycotted it.

This thread's getting to me. I just need to chill and watch "The Man" or "Claudine" or "Crooklyn."

I for one refuse to financially support Mr. Tyler's movies.

To each his or her own....

Historically Black men dressing up in drag portraying, salty tongue, take no prisoners "strong" Black women leaves me curious to what's really not being said. In order for some Black Men to find their backbone they have to wear a skirt?

John Singleton spoke about black men in drag as well:

"There’s nothing but comedies, and I’m tired of all these Black men in dresses. Every other movie has a Black man in a dress, from the Madea movies to Norbit to Big Momma. How come nobody’s protesting that? They call them family movies, and nobody’s telling the little kids that it’s kind of different for a man to wear a dress. I’m just saying that it comes to a point where, if that’s the only types of images they’re seeing, how is that informing upon Black men in America? It’s as if all we can do is make people laugh and play basketball."

JackieBlue said:

If that's what they don't like, then maybe they all need to get together, sit down with Tyler, and talk about it. Like someone said, about Spike and Lee should getting together. I think if Spike, John Singleton and other well-known Black filmmakers/Directors get together, they could build an empire together, and share their creativity. They could even bring in Oprah and Bill Cosby to help finance some of their work.
Now I can't say Tyler will ever stop using his church scenes at the end of most of his movies, or if he will ever let go of the Madea character. It seems to me, he can't let go of it in fear of losing those who supported his work in the beginning, but if he wants to go further, he will more than likely have to let it go.

I still don't understand why he couldn't find a woman to play the Madea part, so something tells me the Madea character goes further than his films. It's almost like it's becoming a "linus blanket" , a "protector" that he can't seem to let go of, as if Madea was the imaginery character, in his mind. that saved him from his father's abuse; an image of a strong female, one it seems his mother wasn't, when she could not protect Tyler or herself against the beatings/abuse they both endured from his father.

I know I just recently read that he is taking a year off after the opening of "Precious" because his mother is currently ill.

phunkdaddy said:

Ask any of my friends: I hated Martin's show.

Vendetta1 said:

Girl you didn't like Romy Rome,the playa all the way
from the Himalayas.

SCNDLS said:

And I have already shared my distate on other threads about him being YET another black male actor that needs to put on a dress and wig to make a movie.

2elijah said:

Exactly what I said. Its not like if they actually did this that Tyler would listen, but its worth a try. I'm a believer in coming up with some kind of solution to the problem rather than just complaining or speaking out on it.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I used to feel the way some here felt about Tyler until I saw "Diary of a Mad Black Woman." I believe the Madea character starred in that one too. Although he put the Madea character in there, in that movie Madea represented a source of strength to the character who was being abused.

In "Family Reunion" he represented the tTe strong "Parent" figure to the little girl character, who just needed some "home training and good parenting", as well as providing the source of strength to the character who played the abused woman in that movie as well.

Now when he did "Why Did I Get Married" he sold me on it. Absolutely loved that movie. It was done with taste and sophistication. It showed Black couples having everyday relationship problems, no more than couples from other racial backgrounds. We always here that African/Black Americans don't like to "air their laundry" so to speak, and many are raised that you don't put your business out in the open, but this movie, did expose issues that some Black couples actually have, which is really not much different form couples from any other racial or economic background. Also, Tylere showed the characters as middle-to upper class Blacks from various economic/social backgrounds. No Madea character needed.

In my personal opinion, I do feel that there may be some jealousy coming from Spike Lee. He looks at Tyler as how is he making it, because of the characters he presents in his sitcoms;some referred to as coming from the "chitlin circuit" or "minstrel" circuit, if you will. Yet Lee is missing the point, that Tyler is in fact displaying varied personalities of Blacks, not lumping them all in one pot. Not stating that they all come from the same social/economic/educational background, which has been displayed in his films.
Tyler may have started off in the “chitlin circuit” but he also built his audiences along the way. I don’t some of the characters, because I know how quick many American viewers will embrace the negative aspects (stereotypes) of specific characters quicker than they will accept the positive characters displayed in his films/tv shows, and I think that is what has Spike Lee a bit worried.

The thing is, Tyler started from the ground up. He "built" his own empire. The man has an entire studio lot that he uses to film his movies. He uses his own money to finance his films. He basically is in control of what he puts out to the public, because he is the “power” behind his own movie, and the controlling source of it as well. He doesn’t have to rely on outside, Hollywood sources for financial backing, whereas it seems Spike does. Does Spike own his own studio lot? I am not sure, because I have not heard any mention of that, as long as he’s been doing films.
After hearing the childhood Tyler went through and survived, he is the American dream. He came from a life of abuse, saw his mother abused, but did not let that steal his dreams or control his future. He had to get that strength from somewhere, and it is obvious the Madea character is where he gets his strength from. He basically stated that character is a recipe of all the strong women he’s known throughout his life. So if he has to hold on to Madea, just a little bit longer, like a linus blanket, that gives him comfort and strength, then I could wait just a little longer before he lets go. Like I said, I don’t like some of his minstrel characters, but some of those personalities do exist among our population, along with the various other less-minstrel personalities Tyler has displayed in his films.

I realize that black movies and entertainment has been far less diverse than white entertainment but white men have been doing the same thing for ages. Divine did it in all his movies and appearances on "All In The Family", Harvey Korman did it on "The Carol Burnett Show" during the "As The Stomach Turns" sketch, Mike Myers did on "Saturday Night Live" when he dressed as the Church Lady and when he dressed as the Jewish lady that was always saying "buttah", and so on and so on. It's been going on since the old days of the Shakespeare plays when only men were allowed to act so they dressed in drag to play the female parts.

It's not like Tyler Perry started dressing in drag to be a clown for white people because he started doing it in plays where there were very few, if any, white people in the audience. I can understand some blacks being offended by the stereotypes he has in his shows because there are definately plenty in them, but as for the dressing in drag part, that's been done by white entertainers forever.

2elijah said:

That's basically how I see Tyler. I'm really proud of the fact that he built his own little independent empire from the ground up when nobody would give him the time of day and now the dude don't have to ask nobody for jack. I actually liked some of his movies although I detest his TV series with a passion. Even though I've seen people like Madea and Brown, I can only take those caricatures in small doses.

I don't really see much difference between Why Did I Get Married and movies like The Best Man or most anything starring Gabrielle Union, such as Breakin All The Rules or Deliver Us From Eva.

I don't think Tyler is even near the top in the list of mediocre black movies though. Is he doing ground breaking cinema? No, but the reason I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt is that from his first Madea films and plays to The Family That Preys, I do see some growth and also, when I look at his support for films like Precious, I think he does have the potential to aim higher eventually. I think you're correct when you say that the Madea character is his bread and butter security for now and like you, I believe he will move on from that sooner rather than later.

As for Spike, we should know by now that calling folks out is what he does. I recall him doing it to Prince once upon a time, so I don't take it as anything other than Spike being Spike.

2elijah said:

2elijah said:

That's basically how I see Tyler. I'm really proud of the fact that he built his own little independent empire from the ground up when nobody would give him the time of day and now the dude don't have to ask nobody for jack. I actually liked some of his movies although I detest his TV series with a passion. Even though I've seen people like Madea and Brown, I can only take those caricatures in small doses.

I don't really see much difference between Why Did I Get Married and movies like The Best Man or most anything starring Gabrielle Union, such as Breakin All The Rules or Deliver Us From Eva.

I don't think Tyler is even near the top in the list of mediocre black movies though. Is he doing ground breaking cinema? No, but the reason I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt is that from his first Madea films and plays to The Family That Preys, I do see some growth and also, when I look at his support for films like Precious, I think he does have the potential to aim higher eventually. I think you're correct when you say that the Madea character is his bread and butter security for now and like you, I believe he will move on from that sooner rather than later.

As for Spike, we should know by now that calling folks out is what he does. I recall him doing it to Prince once upon a time, so I don't take it as anything other than Spike being Spike.

They are doing it for pure comedy reasons just like the white actors are. The characters in the Divine movies would not have been near as funny if a female had played the part and John Travolta did an excellent job in the remake of "Hairspray". Some of the funniest episodes of "Three's Company" are the three episodes where Jack Tripper dresses in drag, one of them was so funny that "What's Happening Now" stole the idea and Raj dressed in drag to damn near the same script as the "Three's Company" episode. I'm not a big Wesley Snipes fan but if you are referring to "Too Wong Foo", there was also a white man and a hispanic man dressed in drag because it was a film about drag queens.

Men dressing as women is just much more funny than getting a woman actor to play the part because half the fun is seeing how well they can pull the gestures off. If they pull them off really well, it's funny because you immediately think "Damn, my grandmother walks or sits just like that" and if they don't pull them off well, it's still funny because they look so un-natural. That's just comedy across the board that many people of all races find humorous.

DesireeNevermind said: