sosgemini said:

As long as it ain't Oprah or Tyler cuz folks definitely have the misconception that they were involved, which they weren't.

SCNDLS said:

Lee Daniels is an interesting species himself. he's a great salesman, that's how he got these private investors (who aren't part of the Hollywood system) to pay for the film and he's lived a horrible life but there is something arrogant and cocky about him that could end up killing Precious' chance for the Oscar. It doesn't help that Harpo and Perry are running around town acting like they are the ones who made the film. They both need to slow their rolls.

sosgemini said:

If one more person sends me an email about Tyler and Oprah's new movie I'm gonna lose it.

I really like Lee. I'm surprised that it would be so hard for him to get financing after the success of Monster's Ball. I haven't seen enough of him to pick up on the arrogance tho.
[Edited 10/26/09 8:42am]

SCNDLS said:

I dug both movies. For one you never saw that story(DLG's) told particularly from a black writer's perspective telling the story of a father fighting for
his kids when usually you hear the story of the single black mom raising
the kids. As far as Spike, i'm not aware of anything he's done that's been
remotely interesting since 1996. I don't take Spike's comments serious he
is just Spike being Spike just like Manny being Manny in baseball.

phunkdaddy said:

Just cuz something is written from a "black" perspective doesn't mean it's written well or in an artistic manner. Like I said, I think his skills are very limited and that's why all his movies are on the same level. Everybody ain't able.

I loved Tyler's response because bullshit like what Spike said and what I'm reading here, pisses me off too!

Everything Tyler has written has a message that doesn't get lost in the deliverance as much of Spike's work has. Sure there are the Madea and Mr. Brown characters to catch your attention but it's from their humor, love and compassion (though in Madea's case, that sometimes may be the lack thereof) as they interact with the other characters that gets his messages across. People who seem to have difficulties grasping his movies may want to check out his plays, which came first and offer better connection to the audience, IMHO.

Frankly, I think Spike is jealous because Tyler is succeeding where he didn't and I'm quite surprised by the some of the responses here, though a few don't surprise me at all.

phunkdaddy said:

Both movies showed me that he doesn't need to direct his own flicks.

SCNDLS said:

I think he might of lost some clout after Shadowboxer. It's a shame that all people hear is Tyler and Oprah, forgetting that it was Saphire and Lee who did the work. If anything this is an opportunity for Tyler to attach his name to a quality film.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

JackieBlue said:

Both of 'em. Cuz Oprah hasn't had any major film success either since Color Purple and this would be her last medium to "conquer." Although Tyler has his audience that will go see whatever mess he releases, none of those films will give him entre into the film establishment. I didn't even hear about Shadowboxer. What the heck was that about?

SCNDLS said:

Helen Mirren getting boned by Cuba Gooding Jr.

sosgemini said:

Okay, I MUST see this just on GP.

SCNDLS said:

A crazy movie with Cuba Gooding Jr., Helen Mirren (as contract killers), MoNique (playing a character named Precious), and Stephen Dorff. It's Lee's directorial debut and somewhere in the madness I could see his potential. But the story is all over the place. The killers are hired to take out the wife of a mobster but instead they become involved with her and that leads to a whole mess. Cuba & Helen are son and stepmother as well as lovers.


[Edited 10/26/09 9:11am]

SCNDLS said:

As of July 2009, Tyler's movies have made over 400 million dollars. I'm certain that's not just from his core audience going to see his movies so I don't believe he's concerned about "entre into the film establishment". Especially, when I also consider the fact that he built his own 200,000 square feet production studio in Atlanta, GA. last year.

JackieBlue said:

Damn, he love him some Monique huh???

I didn't know he had a Prince connection, according to Wiki:

"He began his career in entertainment as a casting director and manager after a chance meeting with a Hollywood producer, working on projects such as Under the Cherry Moon and Purple Rain."

SCNDLS said:

That irks te fuck outta me though! What exactly is a "black perspective"? I'm sick of these people(hollywood) saying that like ALL of us are supposed to be labeled into one group,,,,thats what ruined the movies told are by black people, they fussed about it being written from a "black perspective" and forgot about the STORY itself(the essential thing).

And in result, you get these poor, microwave, TV-dinner stories that has ALOT of distractions and fancy productions, but no value.

And don't even say shit about them, or you're a "hater",,,,,if my standards are high, I'm GLAD to be one
[Edited 10/26/09 9:20am]

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

And what that mean??? Hell, I'm sure Transformers made a gazillion dollars but that doesn't make it quality filmmaking IMO. Why folks always gotta quote his stats anytime somebody criticizes his work??? I haven't denied his success OR that he appeals to a certain demographic. It still doesn't mean he's a talented or even a good filmmaker.

If the discussion is truly about the quality, or lack thereof, of his work then talk about that. In MY opinion, NONE of his films can hold a candle to any of the black films from the 90s like Love Jones, Love & Basketball, The Best Man, and others. Now that he has access to all this money and facilities it makes even less sense that his output isn't better. So, that's why I have to assume that he can't raise the bar cuz he ain't got the skills.

Tyler sucks as a writer and director IMO and I haven't seen the slightest flash of REAL talent as either. Besides none of his movies have garnered the critical acclaim and Oscar buzz that Precious has and it hasn't even been released yet. Hence why his and Oprah's names are on all the advertising. That's not normally done for the distributor. I'm guessing they hope the name recognition will boost ticket sales. It probably will. But this is basically a gritty indie art film and something tells me that his audience isn't going to necessarily enjoy this movie.

Harlepolis said:

That's why the quotes. There is no single black perspective and it's great for Tyler to have his audience. But that don't mean he can write or direct. Perhaps, he's a good storyteller. Maybe his stuff would come across better to me if he worked with a screenwriter to flesh out his storylines. But the dialogue in his movies is simply atrocious.
[Edited 10/26/09 9:44am]

SCNDLS said:

Somebody once said, he writes from a 10 years old perspective "here's the bad guy, here's the good guy, here's another good guy, here's the sidekick, here's the girlfriend and here's the sexually deprived church bunny mother" SO TRUE!

JackieBlue said:

I just think of it as the movie where you get to see Stephen Dorff's cock.

Harlepolis said:

It's certainly not complex. Not that everything has to be either but I guess I expect more.

Efan said:

Again: "Must see on GP"

SCNDLS said:

It has all the main points of a good film:

Stephen Dorff's junk
Helen Mirren in Vivienne Westwood
Macy Gray being Macy Gray
MoNique blow up seen
Cuba in great shape
Cuba and Helen doing it


[Edited 10/26/09 9:46am]

JackieBlue said:

Was the sex realistic? Helen look like a stone cold freak.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I used to feel the way some here felt about Tyler until I saw "Diary of a Mad Black Woman." I believe the Madea character starred in that one too. Although he put the Madea character in there, in that movie Madea represented a source of strength to the character who was being abused.

In "Family Reunion" he represented the tTe strong "Parent" figure to the little girl character, who just needed some "home training and good parenting", as well as providing the source of strength to the character who played the abused woman in that movie as well.

Now when he did "Why Did I Get Married" he sold me on it. Absolutely loved that movie. It was done with taste and sophistication. It showed Black couples having everyday relationship problems, no more than couples from other racial backgrounds. We always here that African/Black Americans don't like to "air their laundry" so to speak, and many are raised that you don't put your business out in the open, but this movie, did expose issues that some Black couples actually have, which is really not much different form couples from any other racial or economic background. Also, Tylere showed the characters as middle-to upper class Blacks from various economic/social backgrounds. No Madea character needed.

In my personal opinion, I do feel that there may be some jealousy coming from Spike Lee. He looks at Tyler as how is he making it, because of the characters he presents in his sitcoms;some referred to as coming from the "chitlin circuit" or "minstrel" circuit, if you will. Yet Lee is missing the point, that Tyler is in fact displaying varied personalities of Blacks, not lumping them all in one pot. Not stating that they all come from the same social/economic/educational background, which has been displayed in his films.
Tyler may have started off in the “chitlin circuit” but he also built his audiences along the way. I don’t some of the characters, because I know how quick many American viewers will embrace the negative aspects (stereotypes) of specific characters quicker than they will accept the positive characters displayed in his films/tv shows, and I think that is what has Spike Lee a bit worried.

The thing is, Tyler started from the ground up. He "built" his own empire. The man has an entire studio lot that he uses to film his movies. He uses his own money to finance his films. He basically is in control of what he puts out to the public, because he is the “power” behind his own movie, and the controlling source of it as well. He doesn’t have to rely on outside, Hollywood sources for financial backing, whereas it seems Spike does. Does Spike own his own studio lot? I am not sure, because I have not heard any mention of that, as long as he’s been doing films.
After hearing the childhood Tyler went through and survived, he is the American dream. He came from a life of abuse, saw his mother abused, but did not let that steal his dreams or control his future. He had to get that strength from somewhere, and it is obvious the Madea character is where he gets his strength from. He basically stated that character is a recipe of all the strong women he’s known throughout his life. So if he has to hold on to Madea, just a little bit longer, like a linus blanket, that gives him comfort and strength, then I could wait just a little longer before he lets go. Like I said, I don’t like some of his minstrel characters, but some of those personalities do exist among our population, along with the various other less-minstrel personalities Tyler has displayed in his films.

SCNDLS said:

I always liked her but this elevated her a bit.

JackieBlue said:

I've always loved me some Helen Mirren.

Eh...bofofem need to stop with the jealousy/hateration. They both owe a great deal to that Melvin Peebles/Peoples dude and Bill Cosby who paved the way for independent black film. Buffoonery (sp) is relative. One man's buffoon is another man's grandma. I'm glad for Perry that he is building his empire and giving black actors, writers, artists, cameramen, stylists, editors, etc WORK. There is room for both of these dudes in the business. I mean dayum...you don't see Edward James Olmos and George Lopez having beef.

SCNDLS said:

It's the "he appeals to a certain demographic" nonsense, that's the first problem. Who exactly is his "certain demographic" anyway and what is with your disdain regarding them?

I brought up the statistics to illustrate that Tyler's movies have to be attracting more than a "certain demographic" to obviously make the money that he has.

The second problem is this discussion is not "about the quality, or lack thereof, of his work". It's about Spike Lee saying some insulting things about Tyler's work that he took offense to and responded to which I agreed with his response.

Now if we're going to talk "quality and any lack there of", let's be sure to include Spike's movies too, shall we because there's plenty of sucking and not holding a candle to to be made on both sides.

The third problem is I haven't said anything about the movie "Precious", yet you seem so certain that Tyler's audience would not enjoy this movie. I'd really like to know why it is you feel that way?

From everything I've heard and seen of the movie, I actually think Tyler's audience will greatly enjoy it. Tyler and Oprah must agree because they've put their money into it to make sure that it is able to be seen on as many screens as possible. Which I also happen to think was a nice and very generous thing to do for a "gritty indie art film", why don't you?

SCNDLS said:

Daniels already said his mother and her friends down in south said why can't you make movies like Tyler Perry.

Perry isn't my cup of tea but neither is Michael Bay--noting that they are apples and oranges to begin with. If we're speaking race there are dozens of white directors to offset the horror that is the Transformers franchise and not much to counter the Madea franchise. I think if there were, people wouldn't feel so passionate about his movies whether for or against.

It will be interesting to see if Spike responds.