Trapped on a bus watching four Perry DVDs back to back?

TonyVanDam said:

Okay, nobody is anwering my questions: How do you or anyone here KNOW that there is even a "situation" to begin with that requires settling??? And I couldn't care less about "choosing sides" in a potentially non-existent beef. The only thing I'm choosing is NOT to watch TP's work cuz I don't like it. And I'm sure Spike knew it was gonna get back cuz he said it in an interview. Maybe he just didn't care.

I'm saying some of ya'll are making a lot of assumptions. Maybe Spike DID reach out to him and TP wasn't receptive to him. Maybe TP came in the game thinking he could write and direct and had no need for Spike's assistance or film school. Just cuz you've been in the game for a long time doesn't mean you can just force mentorship on a rookie. The rookie has to be open to that. Why is everyone placing all the onus on Spike if TP's box office success is all that matters? Who knows, who cares.

Vendetta1 said:

Girl, that torch is TOO HEAVY for Tyler Perry to carry

I love you Tony, but sit the FUCK down you make alot of sense most of the times, but this is one of the times where you "lose" me, dude.

Spike used to Tyler? In WHAT lifetime?

SCNDLS said:

Easy.

1. Because Spike bitched about the situation publicly.

2. Tyler's response (so far):


That looks like a situation there!

And for what I could tell from the reports , I don't Spike tried to reach out to Tyler at all before any of THIS^ happen. But it would be a lot better if he would have.

Harlepolis said:

But here's something I don't get in hindsight... Tyler said what pisses him off is "It's attitudes like that that make Hollywood think that these people do not exist and that's why there's no material speaking to them."

What people is he talking about?

Curiosu if people actually saw the inteview. I don't see this as bitching or jealousy but more like concern than anything and an honest answer to a question.


[Edited 10/28/09 11:34am]

JackieBlue said:

People that are from the hoods, the projects, & the ghettos.

People that are from the working class.

People (especially women) that are from relationships with too many problems

People that are NOT always suit & tie kind of people.

People that are successful without going to college/university to do so.

People that are NOT always going to church OR bible study.

People that are speaking improper English (sometimes).

.....in other words, Tyler Perry is successfully reaching out to people that Spike Lee & Dr. Bill Cosby has overlooked and/or disregarded for the last 30+ years.

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2006/02/23/perry/index.html

The new Amos 'n' Andy?
Critics hate Tyler Perry's outrageous comedies, but his black fans love them. Is Perry a stereotype-spouting minstrel -- or a smart writer and actor who knows how to connect with his audience?

By Russell Scott Smith

Feb. 23, 2006 | Blacks and whites don't always understand each other. But in Hollywood, everyone's favorite color is green. So movie executives of all races took notice last February when a movie called "Diary of a Mad Black Woman" hit No. 1 at the box office -- despite no bankable stars, scant mainstream press attention and reviews that were almost laughably bad.

"Downright awful," "an absolute mess" and "one of the worst pictures in ages," critics wailed. Salon's Stephanie Zacharek called it "the sort of movie that's so bad, you just wish it would go away." Roger Ebert was offended by the movie's star, a "Big Momma's House"-style granny named Madea, who smokes reefer, keeps a pistol in her purse and slices up furniture with a chain saw. This "Grandma from Hell," as Ebert called her, was played in drag by the film's 6-foot-5 writer-producer-mastermind, Tyler Perry. "All blame returns to Perry," Ebert wrote. "What was he thinking?"

But there was no arguing the numbers. Perry made "Diary" on a shoestring $5.5 million budget, and as of last April it had grossed some $50 million. Perry's distributor, Lions Gate Films, quickly greenlighted $10 million for a sequel, "Madea's Family Reunion," which hits theaters Feb. 24. Now the suits are thinking franchise. "We've got Tyler fever," says Lions Gate head of production Michael Paseornek. "As far as we're concerned, the last weekend of February belongs to Tyler Perry, and we plan to be there every year."

What shocked Hollywood insiders was how Perry seemed to come out of nowhere. In the wake of the "Diary" success, the Hollywood trade paper Variety wrote a story that led off, "Tyler who?" Paseornek had been asking himself the same question a year before, after he received a letter from Perry's agent, talking about a guy who wrote plays for African-American audiences on the "chitlin circuit," a name that goes back to Jim Crow days, when African-Americans were banned from mainstream auditoriums. Nowadays, Perry's plays regularly sell out major venues such as New York's Beacon Theater and the Kodak Theatre in Los Angeles, where the Oscars are held, and in the last eight years, they've grossed more than $100 million through ticket sales and DVDs of live performances sold through his Web site.

"It was an astronomical number for someone I'd never heard of," Paseornek recalls, "so I called around to other people in showbiz, and they hadn't heard of him either."

But those people were white. Paseornek got his first insight into the Perry phenomenon when he walked down the hall to the Lions Gate inventory control department, to talk to an African-American employee named Kenya Watson. "She said, 'Sure, I've heard of Tyler Perry,'" he recalls. "'I own all his DVDs. Whenever we have a cookout, we put one on.'"

Kenya must be his official black life tour guide.

"When I first went to the studios," Perry told Salon in a recent phone interview, "they told me my fans didn't go to movies." But actually, his audience -- hardworking, family-oriented, Christian African-American women -- had just been waiting for someone to make a movie they would like, and Perry used his own powerful marketing apparatus to get the fans out for "Diary." In the weeks leading up to the film's release, there were constant ads on black radio stations and Perry reached out to the more than 500,000 fans who've signed up on his Web site's e-mail list. "Every week or so, we tell them what's going on," Perry says of his fan base, adding that a similar countdown has been underway for "Family Reunion." He also talked to pastors at some of the country's most important African-American megachurches, with whom he says he has "really good relationships"; they got the word out, sometimes even talking about "Diary" from the pulpit. Church auxiliaries started buying group tickets and making plans to see "Diary" en masse.

"People forget that churchgoing folks like to be entertained," says Tamara McLaurin, a 32-year-old catering sales manager at the Atlanta convention center. The release of "Diary" was a major event for McLaurin and the other women in her church's "dance ministry," a group that dances during services. They were traveling to perform that weekend, watched four Perry DVDs in a row on the bus, and then piled into a multiplex to cheer "Diary." "We called it 'Tyler Perry Day,' " recalls McLaurin, who now owns a "Diary" DVD that she still watches about once a week -- "just in the background, while I do things around the house."

"These people were desperate to be spoken to," says Boston Globe film critic Wesley Morris. "When something came along that was even remotely relevant, they threw all their weight behind it, even though it was a shittily made movie." Morris didn't like "Diary." "Blows to the head are delivered with more subtlety," he wrote in his review. He also happens to be African-American, but as soon as his review came out, he says, he got phone calls and e-mails from Perry fans who accused him of being white -- and a racist at that. The fans were even harsher when they knew for sure that the critic was white. Ebert, who is married to an African-American woman and has long been a champion for black cinema, received so much angry e-mail and became such a lightning rod because of his negative "Diary" review that Perry felt compelled, during a visit to Chicago, to plead with his fans to lay off the guy.

Why is this ALWAYS the reaction when someone dares to criticize TP???
[Edited 10/28/09 9:43am]

JackieBlue said:

People that are from the hoods, the projects, & the ghettos.

People that are from the working class.

People (especially women) that are from relationships with too many problems

People that are NOT always suit & tie kind of people.

People that are successful without going to college/university to do so.

People that are NOT always going to church OR bible study.

People that are speaking improper English (sometimes).

.....in other words, Tyler Perry is successfully reaching out to people that Spike Lee & Dr. Bill Cosby has overlooked and/or disregarded for the last 30+ years.

Okay, I want to ask some of you about a couple of Spike Lee's films in comparison to Tyler's;don't get me wrong, I respect both of Spike and Tyler, but would like to hear your comments on this:


"She's Gotta Have It". Did you find that to be a masterpiece or one of
Spike's best?
1) Did you find any stereotypical characters in that movie?

2) What about the focus on "sex" in that movie? Did it sort of reflect the the "mandingo/mandinga" syndrome?

3) Would you say it was one of Spike's best films?


What about Jungle Fever? How did you feel about this movie?


1) Did you find that Spike portrayed the stereotypical "Angry Black Woman/Women?"

2) Would you compare any of the Black Female characters in "Jungle Fever" or the storyline similar to Tyler Perry's characters in "Diary of A Mad Black Woman?


Would love to read your comments.
[Edited 10/28/09 10:52am]

JackieBlue said:

Yeah, that's a REAL rant right there.

I bet most of the folks up in here saying Spike's jealous and bitching didn't see the interview and IF they did and think THAT is an example of bitching I guess I have different definition of "bitching" and "beefing".

That's prolly Spike at his most thoughtful and reserved and he gave HIS opinion which is 100% truth. Like I said before, I think a lot of black folks want us to present some bullshit PR united front for the public and therefore, crucify ANY black public figure that criticizes another black person EVEN if they are speaking truth.

TonyVanDam said:

Dude, I think you need a nap.

Are you saying that MOST of those SAME people didn't see The Cosby Show, Different World, School Daze, Jungle Fever, Do the Right Thing, Malcolm X, Get on the Bus, He Got Game???

TonyVanDam said:

I really don't see how there's no material speaking to all the people that fit the above descriptions.

JackieBlue said:

Yeah, that's a REAL rant right there.

I bet most of the folks up in here saying Spike's jealous and bitching didn't see the interview and IF they did and think THAT is an example of bitching I guess I have different definition of "bitching" and "beefing".

That's prolly Spike at his most thoughtful and reserved and he gave HIS opinion which is 100% truth. Like I said before, I think a lot of black folks want us to present some bullshit PR united front for the public and therefore, crucify ANY black public figure that criticizes another black person EVEN if they are speaking truth.

Okay, I want to ask some of you about a couple of Spike Lee's films in comparison to Tyler's;don't get me wrong, I respect both of Spike and Tyler, but would like to hear your comments on this:


"She's Gotta Have It". Did you find that to be a masterpiece or one of
Spike's best?
1) Did you find any stereotypical characters in that movie?

2) What about the focus on "sex" in that movie? Did it sort of reflect the the "mandingo/mandinga" syndrome?

3) Would you say it was one of Spike's best films?


What about Jungle Fever? How did you feel about this movie?


1) Did you find that Spike portrayed the stereotypical "Angry Black Woman/Women?"

2) Would you compare any of the Black Female characters in "Jungle Fever" or the storyline similar to Tyler Perry's characters in "Diary of A Mad Black Woman?


Would love to read your comments.
[Edited 10/28/09 10:52am]

2elijah said:

She's Gotta Have It was terrible! But in all fairness to Spike, that was his debut film and his very short budget only allow room to pay actors/actresses that could act worth a damn.

Jungle Fever was entertaining, without question. But Spike's view on interracial relationship wasn't a fair one to begin with, because the black man cheated on his black (CORRECTION: bi-racial) wife in order to be with the white woman. Naturally, the viewers (myself included) would agree that THIS specific interracial union was wrong. But what if that same leading black man was single BEFORE getting involve with that same white women?

As entertaining as that film was and still is, Spike was not being fair on the subject matter at all.

As for racial stereotypes, hell yeah, Wesley Snipes's performance in the sex scenes were over the top in a Mandingo sort of way. And that scene with the women's group discussion was definitely inspired by how some black women felt about interracial relationships at the time. Angry black woman stereotype? Of course. But remember in context, the black woman was the victim first.

JackieBlue said:

Oh please. Cosby never created a "hood film" in his whole career. And the cartoon Fat Albert doesn't count! At least Spike did Clockers.

2elijah said:

I think these are great questions but I haven’t seen She’s Gotta Have It or Jungle Fever in such a long time I don’t think I could give complete answer but I don’t think I’d consider She’s Gotta Have It one of his best. I don’t think exploring female sexuality necessarily plays into the stereotype of the insatiable or oversexed black female. Again, I need to see it to really expound on it further.

However, I will say I am not always a fan of Spike’s writing and the development of his characters--especially female characters--are questionable but I think overall he is a solid filmmaker. For myself, 9 times out of 10 his movies provoke critical thought and dialogue even if I don’t agree or like what he is depicting. I admire his attempts to tell certain stories even if he misses the mark and sometimes he does that quite well.

Spike cleverly gave America a reflection of itself. That scene was basically a lesson that says "See this is what happens when you don't take the time to educate yourselves about various races and ethnic groups", so you allow ignorant, stereotypical assumptions become your educator in learning about people from various race/ethnic/religious and cultural groups. so I will give Spike two hands up for that film.
[Edited 10/28/09 13:24pm]

SCNDLS said:

That part of the interview was the prefect set up for a little shoot.

TonyVanDam said:

Tony, if you sleep with bulldogs, you wake up with DUNG BEETLES The only person that sat himself up is Tyler,,,whether Spike called him out or not.

Its a new day and a new age,,,,,why the hell should we settle with less and keep our mouths shut when there's alot of Uncle Tommery bullshit going on for the sake of not being called "haters/jealous"?

And beside, I think you underestimate the people you mentioned a lil' too highly, brother. I belong to 1/2 of that group, and so do alot of people I know(not to discredit the folks who like his movies, by all means) but like the rest of folks, we also have diverse taste,,,,,its not always one-sided.

However, I'll say this much that the problem is alot of the audience are passive escapists,,,,and large part of them happen to be black people. But even black people can react to intelligent filmmaking giving the chance(I mean people like Spike Lee didn't get famous out of sheer luck).

But just like the state of music,,,,its the power that be that has this marketing arrogance that screams "whateva we ditch to you, you'll take it with a grin" mentality that alot of folks fell for, not only black people but alot of white filmmakers who are lacking a great deal too(although UNLIKE US, they have balance and variety).

SCNDLS said:

1. Don't get it twisted. Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that. YOU did.

2. I only thing I did was give a specific answer to JackieBlue's question.

JackieBlue said:

Oh please. Cosby never created a "hood film" in his whole career. And the cartoon Fat Albert doesn't count! At least Spike did Clockers.

Britney sells more records than Prince, so that means Britney is better? Hey, I'm using your logic.

I love you Spike, but you did suck Nike's peni for many years, even though they make brown people work in sweatshop labor. No comment on the tommish Michael Jordan.

TonyVanDam said:

Huh??? You DID say "Tyler Perry is successfully reaching out to people that Spike Lee & Dr. Bill Cosby has overlooked and/or disregarded for the last 30+ years."

So, my question, since you OBVIOUSLY missed it, is: Do you REALLY believe that NEITHER Cosby or Spike reached all of those people you listed?

And are you saying in your other post that the only way to reach those people is by making a "hood" film? My, my, how white of you. What exactly is a hood film? And what about those movies from the 70s some of which we discussed in this thread that Bill was involved in? Who do you think went to see Uptown Saturday Night? If that ain't a hood movie I obviously don't know what is.

You can't be serious.