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Printableabigail05 said: ConsciousContact said: What do we do about the society which produces teen gangs? The society that you and me have created.
did we create it, or do we just allow it to exist? In allowing it to exist - we help(ed)to create it ( "we" = society ) | |
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DesireeNevermind said: well I would like to think these kids can be saved but when they start raping old women, killing other kids who try to go to school and stay off drugs, and doing drive by shootings on innocent folk then I say put them on a deserted island and let them work it out Lord of the Flies style.
Rehabilitate the ones you can, then exterminate the rest. I'm totally serious. These fuckers would kill you(and your family)without even thinking about it. |
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i used to work (volunteer) with an anti-gang program for youth, i dedicated a few years of my life to it, it was very rewarding, i even wrote a book for it. gangs is something very hard to deal with, and dangerous! but we can never give up! if we can save one kid from joining or getting killed it's worth the work! i saw here in the area where i live that on the weekends gang members drive up from salinas and watsonville to cause trouble in my town, and a teenage boy was killed at the bus stop who just happened to be wearing a red shirt, but wasn't in a gang.  very sad! | |
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Mach said: abigail05 said: did we create it, or do we just allow it to exist? In allowing it to exist - we help(ed)to create it ( "we" = society ) society creates the gangs, society reforms ex-gang members.... get some neglectful parents that are abusive (even if its just emotional), poverty or lack of interest in the positive, greed for fast money, and neighbors who will allow it to grow and fester. Ta dah!! A young person full of anger with a sense of having nothing to lose and everything to gain... like power. 
My brother started his own "gang" because he was targeted for NOT joining one... he's alive and well despite the many attempts on his life. He's 35 now... in my neighborhood we lost over 15 teens from violence. Twelve girls were gang raped in broad daylight, 1 man was killed with a machete, the police never came. In enough time, they will just kill each other. | |
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paintedlady said: Mach said: In allowing it to exist - we help(ed)to create it ( "we" = society ) society creates the gangs, society reforms ex-gang members.... get some neglectful parents that are abusive (even if its just emotional), poverty or lack of interest in the positive, greed for fast money, and neighbors who will allow it to grow and fester. Ta dah!! A young person full of anger with a sense of having nothing to lose and everything to gain... like power.
My brother started his own "gang" because he was targeted for NOT joining one... he's alive and well despite the many attempts on his life. He's 35 now... in my neighborhood we lost over 15 teens from violence. Twelve girls were gang raped in broad daylight, 1 man was killed with a machete, the police never came. In enough time, they will just kill each other.  Dayum! Even the cops are afraid of these mofos. They are a plague. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Dayum! Even the cops are afraid of these mofos. They are a plague....and if you snitch on them, you will catch bullets. That shit is real. |
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The education system is based on competition, greed and ambition. In developed countries the whole point of education is to produce taxpayers to support the agenda of government. There s no room for creativity or development of emotional intelligence or sensitivity in human beings. Is it any wonder some people rebel, drop out and turn to criminality to survive in a system which doesn t nurture humanity. | |
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uPtoWnNY said: DesireeNevermind said: well I would like to think these kids can be saved but when they start raping old women, killing other kids who try to go to school and stay off drugs, and doing drive by shootings on innocent folk then I say put them on a deserted island and let them work it out Lord of the Flies style.
Rehabilitate the ones you can, then exterminate the rest. I'm totally serious. These fuckers would kill you(and your family)without even thinking about it. I love the idea, very simple and direct, but it would be impossible without us turning into nazis with concentration camps. And I'm really against that. Maybe some kind of public works thing could be set up for these people. Rebuild our roads, our infrastructure and we'll give you a paycheck and skills and some dignity. But I have no doubt they'd ruin that too. | |
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abigail05 said: uPtoWnNY said: Rehabilitate the ones you can, then exterminate the rest. I'm totally serious. These fuckers would kill you(and your family)without even thinking about it. I love the idea, very simple and direct, but it would be impossible without us turning into nazis with concentration camps. And I'm really against that. Maybe some kind of public works thing could be set up for these people. Rebuild our roads, our infrastructure and we'll give you a paycheck and skills and some dignity. But I have no doubt they'd ruin that too. That's what I'm saying. Some of these cats just don't give a fuck. And I'm sick of reading about innocent folks(sometimes kids) getting killed in cross-fires or drive-bys. What can you do? |
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uPtoWnNY said: abigail05 said: I love the idea, very simple and direct, but it would be impossible without us turning into nazis with concentration camps. And I'm really against that. Maybe some kind of public works thing could be set up for these people. Rebuild our roads, our infrastructure and we'll give you a paycheck and skills and some dignity. But I have no doubt they'd ruin that too. That's what I'm saying. Some of these cats just don't give a fuck. And I'm sick of reading about innocent folks(sometimes kids) getting killed in cross-fires or drive-bys. What can you do? Transform society. | |
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ConsciousContact said: Transform society. that's a great idea in theory, but how do you do that so that it's all encompassing?? I think it's fair to say that society as a whole has a pretty good grasp of right & wrong or good & bad...somewhere along the way, a certain individuals idea of those very basic things becomes muddled and the bad/wrong things that they are doing become justified and right in their mind...that's not a society problem, that's an individual mindset gone awry...unfortunately, something like that (atleast in my opinion) can't be corrected with a "Kumbaya" lets-become-better-as-a-people solution... sometimes looking for the cause of a problem without addressing it outright allows the issue to manifest and flourish...I think that's the case with gangs...society has tried to understand their mindset and their reasons for what they do...and still, we end up with more gangs, more gang memebers and more violent gang activity... we know that broken homes and families cause kids to look for other means of belonging, that's a given...but there are plenty of kids from good homes with good families that are involved with this bullshit...so to think that a "good" society is gonna change things, as noble as the thought may be, is a little naive... it comes down to a numbers game...gangs thrive because of their numbers, they intimidate because of their numbers, they continue to grow & recruit because of their numbers...as individuals, they're the weakest of the weak...as I see it, society has much greater numbers...the majority of people don't want to put up with this bullshit...when we let go of fear and our need to over think things, then we can confront the individuals in these gangs...when those individuals bring friends, we bring more...eventually, the numbers game wins.... [Edited 10/27/09 11:44am] | |
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How about this idea - it sounds crazy but it just might work - we load up some Chinook helicopters with the worst of the bunch, the unreformable, and we fly them over a live volcano.
And drop them in! No mess, no bullshit, problem solved! Well, not really solved, but addressed. How about that?  | |
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Spookymuffin left already. I don't think this is a problem anymore.  | |
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uPtoWnNY said: These gangs are no joke, especially MS-13.
I'd send the National Guard into the gang-infested areas and tell them, "use those fuckers for target practice". Wow, I thought Imago had the best suggestion, but I think I like yours even more. | |
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abigail05 said: How about this idea - it sounds crazy but it just might work - we load up some Chinook helicopters with the worst of the bunch, the unreformable, and we fly them over a live volcano.
And drop them in! No mess, no bullshit, problem solved! Well, not really solved, but addressed. How about that? the only thing is....the helicopters wouldn't be filled with "teen" gangs, just the adult ones. But hey,,,,I'll pay for the gas. | |
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What's really scary is that the military gang members are learning all this tactical stuff and bringing it back to the streets then teaching others what they've learned. How in the hell are city cops supposed to handle that kind of shit? | |
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Serena said: What's really scary is that the military gang members are learning all this tactical stuff and bringing it back to the streets then teaching others what they've learned. How in the hell are city cops supposed to handle that kind of shit?
you said a mouthful sistah!
another sad factor...some of these ex-gang, military trained, still ruthless mofos come home and become COPS. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Serena said: What's really scary is that the military gang members are learning all this tactical stuff and bringing it back to the streets then teaching others what they've learned. How in the hell are city cops supposed to handle that kind of shit?
you said a mouthful sistah!
another sad factor...some of these ex-gang, military trained, still ruthless mofos come home and become COPS. Oh yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that part, but that's so true! | |
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roodboi said: ConsciousContact said: Transform society. that's a great idea in theory, but how do you do that so that it's all encompassing?? [Edited 10/27/09 11:44am] You start by transforming yourself so that you don t support a society which promotes greed, envy, competition and ambition amongst individuals. The fact is that if it exists then you and I have created it. So it makes no difference if people have an idea about what is "good and bad", the fact is that we are greedy and ambitious and violent as a race, reagrdless of the ideas we may give lip service to. Ideas will change nothing, that s all they are, ideals. Only transformation on an individual basis will bring about a change in society. | |
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ConsciousContact said: You start by transforming yourself so that you don t support a society which promotes greed, envy, competition and ambition amongst individuals. The fact is that if it exists then you and I have created it. So it makes no difference if people have an idea about what is "good and bad", the fact is that we are greedy and ambitious and violent as a race, reagrdless of the ideas we may give lip service to. Ideas will change nothing, that s all they are, ideals. Only transformation on an individual basis will bring about a change in society. respectfully, none of that makes sense to me... we're supposed to transform on an individual basis...but what exactly do we transform if not our ideas?? I mean, don't all of our accomplishments and transgressions begin as ideas?? and once we individually transform whatever it is, how does that guarantee a positive affect other on idividuals...or in the case of gangs, large groups of like minded individuals??? I reject the notion that the collective "we" is responsible for all the worlds issues..."we" can't fight every battle...most of "we" have to choose our battles as they affect us directly...from a certain point of view, that may be part of the problem...but from a realistic point of view, that's simply the way it is... look, we could go on & on about what we as a society should do to become better, but I really think that's never gonna happen...you would think that "we" had just started killing, lying, being greedy, & evil...all this is nothing new to our species...it is not going to go away; I don't care how many individuals denounce that way of thinking...for every one that denounces that mindset, another fully embraces it... what you are suggesting, atleast from my point of view, is impossible...and frankly, it's that kind of thinking that has allowed problems like gangs to grow...because instead of actually attacking the problem, some would rather dissect it and search for an ever elusive cause of the problem...sometimes, it's not nearly as complicated as we like to make it...sometimes, people are just assholes, and just because I choose not to be an asshole, that certainly won't keep my neighbor from being an asshole... [Edited 10/28/09 13:58pm] | |
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roodboi said: ConsciousContact said: You start by transforming yourself so that you don t support a society which promotes greed, envy, competition and ambition amongst individuals. The fact is that if it exists then you and I have created it. So it makes no difference if people have an idea about what is "good and bad", the fact is that we are greedy and ambitious and violent as a race, reagrdless of the ideas we may give lip service to. Ideas will change nothing, that s all they are, ideals. Only transformation on an individual basis will bring about a change in society. respectfully, none of that makes sense to me... we're supposed to transform on an individual basis...but what exactly do we transform if not our ideas?? I mean, don't all of our accomplishments and transgressions begin as ideas?? and once we individually transform whatever it is, how does that guarantee a positive affect other on idividuals...or in the case of gangs, large groups of like minded individuals??? I reject the notion that the collective "we" is responsible for all the worlds issues..."we" can't fight every battle...most of "we" have to choose our battles as they affect us directly...from a certain point of view, that may be part of the problem...but from a realistic point of view, that's simply the way it is... look, we could go on & on about what we as a society should do to become better, but I really think that's never gonna happen...you would think that "we" had just started killing, lying, being greedy, & evil...all this is nothing new to our species...it is not going to go away; I don't care how many individuals denounce that way of thinking...for every one that denounces that mindset, another fully embraces it... what you are suggesting, atleast from my point of view, is impossible...and frankly, it's that kind of thinking that has allowed problems like gangs to grow...because instead of actually attacking the problem, some would rather dissect it and search for an ever elusive cause of the problem...sometimes, it's not nearly as complicated as we like to make it...sometimes, people are just assholes, and just because I choose not to be an asshole, that certainly won't keep my neighbor from being an asshole... [Edited 10/28/09 13:58pm] Most people act like arseholes. How they choose to express it is the only difference. [Edited 10/28/09 14:10pm] | |
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Exterminate.
I'm serious. | |
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Graycap23 said: Exterminate.
I'm serious. I hear that. |
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The other sad part is the teen gang bangers have their own kids and those kids grow up in the gang life and it becomes this horrid cycle. I do recognize that some kids are forced into the life "join or die" but when the parents are also part of the problem it just seems like its too big for society to handle. That's why I say ship off to some undisclosed and isolated location and who cares what they do when they get there. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: The other sad part is the teen gang bangers have their own kids and those kids grow up in the gang life and it becomes this horrid cycle. I do recognize that some kids are forced into the life "join or die" but when the parents are also part of the problem it just seems like its too big for society to handle. That's why I say ship off to some undisclosed and isolated location and who cares what they do when they get there.
man, do I like the way you orgers are thinking. what would the international community have us do? They can't even handle a nice little tropical locale like Guantanamo where American-killing terrorists can eat Froot Loops and fling feces to their heart's desire. What would they have to say about Bloods-N-Crips Island? | |
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