why do transvestites and gay men do it?

paintedlady said:

Actually what we would do in my travels we would always approach the girl we knew was the least attractive out of the bunch or the one that just wasn't attractive at all. And from my experience That shakes the prettier girl up. because she knows she's fine that fact that her girl whom she to believes deep inside isn't as attractive as she is getting the attention instead of her knockes her off.Eventually (rather quickly ) she injects herself into the conversation to make you notice her (you of course saw her all along but didn't cater to her ego) after awhile she's the one you are talking to and will end up with that night which is how we planned it from the beginning.

This has not worked everytime but I'd say 8 out 0f 10
[Edited 10/13/09 6:15am]

i think it would be cool tho, to go out in public, maybe to a bar or something to see how the guys react to the ladies and vice versa...





...i would love to analyze their approaches...

daingermouz2020 said:

great strategy.

I've given up trying to compete. I know I my dowdy ass won't win

MrsGoodnight said:

we don't all like tarts, you know. i bet you do just fine.

whistle said:

so the ones that try and care about the attention are tarts?

ZombieKitten said:

i didn't invent fake eyelashes, high-heel shoes, fake fingernails, plastic surgery, etc. if the wonderbra fits...

whistle said:

but you think those things are tarty?

ZombieKitten said:

i guess i'm just depressed that some women consider themselves 'dowdy' and 'unable to compete' with other women who are caught up in some sort of artificial beauty enhancement arms race.

whistle said:

I certainly don't consider myself dowdy, but speaking for myself, I'm uninterested in the attention from the kinds of men whose eyes are drawn to those types of customisations, if that makes any sense at all. I do feel a different species to those who invest time and money into their appearance to that extent. Maybe if I did all that stuff, I'd be mad nobody looked at me after all the effort I'd go to!

ZombieKitten said:

and conversely, women like that put me off because i'm pretty certain i'm not the type of man they are looking for.

fake tits, meh. i like nerdy girls and bookworms anyway...

whistle said:

ZombieKitten said:

lads' mags would be quite different if i ran the world. page after page of girls in glasses obscuring their naughty bits with classic literature.

whistle said:

I know other men with the same idea

ZombieKitten said:

we're a secret society. we cruise libraries looking for trade.

whistle said:

I'm going to the library this afternoon with a tight shirt on!!!

whistle said:

I think I love you.

I'm an average looking woman surrounded by beautiful women. I used to be depressed because I felt I could never compete with them. But, I am smart and I am kind and I am genuine and I dig that men like me because of those qualities.

And I'm not saying attractive women aren't these things. I am comfortable in my own skin and don't feel the need to enhance anything.

I guess the more recent responses convey pretty deal what's the bottom line here: just about any woman can get heels, make-up, skimpy dresses etc. just by walking into a store and paying money for them. It's not more complicated than that, so the question really is what motivates certain individuals to go for such looks whilst others do not want to appear that way. Mind you, most of the women who constantly dress up sexy aren't even usually of the most attractive kind naturally, at least that would be my own observation regarding the setting where I live. They're pretty much average, and that's perfectly okay too. Nothing wrong with enhancing your looks if that's what you choose to do.

It would be sort of strange to just call it "jealousy" or "competition" based on who is the hottest or the most desirable. If there is "competition" going on then it definitely does take place on far more complicated levels than just "going for it all the way". In fact, each participant to this suggested rivalry has to take her (and his as well) position in a far shrewder manner and mediate between the conflicting expectations the surroundings pose in this regard. If there is "scorn" or "disdain" projected on certain individuals who have chosen to dress up in a more sexually provocative way, it would seem to be based more on the observation of those individuals being "too direct" or even "breaking the common norms of decency". In some sense they're just making it too easy, the downside for them is just that it will have its own rather negative consequences as well.

The thing I've myself learnt from spending time with ultra-feminine women is that they're constantly placing themselves in a rather vulnerable position. They are often approached in public situations due to their appearance - which for some males would seem to denote sexuality as such ("easy score"), for some being allowed to be with such a woman would signal of something of a social status, whilst for some others they are attracted to the objects themselves as well (and not just the woman "underneath all the extra" - yes, I'm referring to fetishist inclinations here). I'd say such "high-maintenance women" would also seem to want something in exchange from the men they end up being with as well. Simply put, even if they're not really after the guy's money, they expect to be treated better or allowed more whimsicality in general (etc.). That is because they are perfectly aware that they can afford to do that, as there will be always some another man around the corner desiring them. So I don't think the typical feminist criticism of "objectification of women" is too far off the mark, but I do feel like the women are also expecting usually to get something in return in case they will choose to "ojectify" themselves - it's a form of risk-taking. Most are perfectly aware of being looked down by other women, but I don't think that they'd particularly enjoy being in that situation either (they don't feel like being the "winners" that the top post would make them seem like to be regarding this supposed competitive setting).

At least that's my own observation of it, and there's of course a lot of variation to these things. Some women simply are aestheticists, and when discussing the scorn aspect with them they almost would seem to see themselves as the little girl that wasn't allowed to play with the rest on the schoolyard. However, the aesthetically-inclined ones and the gold diggers usually present entirely different ends of the same phenomenon.

whistle said:

I'm with ya dowdy can be the best!


don't know if you guys would agree or if you've ever heard of the artist Amel Larrieux I think she's very dowdy, plain jane beautiful.

Vendetta1 said:

Natural beauty (inside and out) kicks arse over all that superficial crap that women torture their bodies with for the sake of vanity. It's awesome ur comfortable in ur own skin and I co-sign to that.

novabrkr said:

myfavourite, I didn't quite understand what you were trying to convey there, would you like to say a bit more on similar issues with a few words of your own?

What I was trying to say is that it's not that easy for the "woman that dresses up sexually upfront" either. Many are perfectly aware that they are ridiculed and not always taken seriously as individuals. What I have called there "the aestheticist" could be discerned from the more typical airheads by the fact that they actually use their imagination on their appearance. Their clothing choices aren't just a textbook example of "how to attract men", but they are usually interested in style / fashion / design otherwise as well. They are also of the type who don't dress up just for the friday night, or when they are accompanied by their husbands / boyfriends on the town (I see this a lot around here, as the same women wear entirely different clothes at other times). Now, both types do often indeed manage to rile up other women. Just yesterday I witnessed a pair of teenaged girls criticizing absolutely everyone that was a little more dressed up passing by those two on the train. It was awful...



Sometimes this does however place the women themselves in a sort of a rut. If you've been doing it since you were 15-16 you might end up forming your identity and concepts on relationships etc. on a completely different basis than the rest. I've met 30-something women of that kind who have had rather strange concepts on relationships and what men in general are like. They can be also entirely oblivious to such things as men, for example, liking art - or that they are able to discuss matters of style and also take the women's perspective into account. This is something entirely new to them. All I could have thought in those situtions has often been "well, you would seem to think so probably because you've only been approached by assholes all through your life because of the way you dress up". As much as I personally like women who put an extra amount of effort into their appearance, I do have to admit that [i]so many{/i] of them have developed severely limited social skills and would seem to possess life experiences of a very limited scope. It's not that they're necessarily unintellectual, but they've just been treated a whole lot differently all through their lives, so that may have distorted the perspective quite a lot.

Again, let me emphasize that not everyone is alike. These are just generalizations and remarks based on my own experiencies in such matters. Also, where I live (Finland) women do in general dress down quite a lot, so the division is even more drastic in that respect. It's different in, say, London than here in Helsinki.
[Edited 10/14/09 7:10am]

i just need to know what exactly are you saying when you say the rivalry amongst women " ..has to take her (and his as well) position in a far shrewder manner and mediate between the conflicting expectations the surroundings pose in this regard."

what i hear you saying is that in a relationship a woman has to be mindful of what other people expect of them, hence my rebuttal of "..in other words, if momma dont approve you gotta hit the groove, the cut, the corner, the bar, the aestheticists????? ..imo..thats junk, and momma needs a hobby. I'm not angry, but i know what you are saying and how it affects people whose primary concern is other than the man or the womans feelings toward each other. i find that sort of thought disgusting before you ever noticed "what type" of women it was."


how does that not make sense to you, or are you just being full of it???

myfavorite said:

Perhaps I am being full of it, but I really don't understand what expressions such as "hit the groove, the cut, the corner, the bar, the aestheticists?????" could mean.



I am simply saying that the society imposes conflicting expectations on its members and women (and men) likewise do not always know what they are exactly expected. As far as notions on appearance go, others will expect you to look certain way whilst others will demand something else. The dichotomies on what the majority of men would prefer a woman to look like, and what the women themselves in that regard would expect from other women, are widely known. You can hardly always utilize the same type of appearance at all situations, but have to "mediate" between different approaches at different situations. Toning down your appearance can be a deliberate strategy just as much as the opposite approach - that's all.

I don't know why you would object against a view like that, though.
[Edited 10/14/09 10:21am]

..then what i really feel is that you arent paying attention to anything i 've said thus far, and just like you said earlier, there are certain groups of woman, that some men hardly pay attention to....???

PanthaGirl said:

I can understand those women making every efforts to make them feel more confortable in their own skin while never losing touch with their goal. It can be seen as a torture from the outside. Nevertheless challenging ourselves daily to ameliorate ourselves (inside & outside) sounds like a healthy attitude.

I myself also stare at other women, but as an admirer, not as a competitor

MarySharon said:

this theory is much more funnier

whistle said:

Truth!

Men also compete by using a very attractive girl as a trophy to parade around so other guys will give them "props".

Men are also more prone to compete by actually stabbing, shooting or beating the crap out of each other on occasion.

It's still a form of competition.