4LOVE said:

Nope... I cannot be painted into a corner. I can either answer or not answer at my whim, therefore I am not stuck in any way... also... everyone has missed the actual point of the topic.

:LOL:

LaVisHh said:

What is there to remember?

IceNine said:

Where's the humor, IceNice?

I posted a response...was I offbase? If so, explain.

IceNine said:

I "got" the topic, Ice. C'mon, why ya gotta insult my intelligence ("you of all people", sheesh, lol) but since it suddenly veered to you personally, I was playing into that.

LaVisHh said:

Off-base in what way? You didn't say anything off-base, I was just wondering what there was to remember.

Were you going to remember that I was pointing out the obvious differences in views on male versus female sexuality?

:LOL:

A girl once told me that guys who do this (talking about his sexual conquests) have small dicks.

It makes sense, why else would you have to talk about it (unless you're in high school).

AnotherLover2 said:

I hoped that you were just playing around and I KNEW that you would get what I was saying... my sarcasm/irony detectors were malfunctioning earlier, I guess.

IceNine said:

Sounds like a lack of self respect topped with an insecurity problem. If a man is so into himself he can never be into the one who really loves him...Most guys can handle many woman but it take a real MAN to be able to hold on to just ONE.

Here is a theory.

A woman has the ability to have a child once every 9 months. Men have the ability to make more babies the entire time. It just seems the way nature meant it to be. Perhaps this is why there is so much divorce.

Even in the animal kingdom, they have ways of bragging about the number of females in their pack.
[This message was edited Wed Jan 8 7:49:43 PST 2003 by LaVisHh]

But if ya wanna go back and get serious about it, then yes, of course, there's a double standard. Women are still looked to as the person to set the sexual boundaries, to be the one to say no, while the (straight) male is programmed to get as far as he can with as many women as he can. Women are also still rewarded for being "sweet" and "nice" in other aspects of life as well, while cursed as a "ballbreaker" and "bitch" if she's aggressive and competitive and not-nice.

I think the old saying about what men want: "a lady in the drawing room, a whore in bed" tells it exactly the way it still often is, really.

AnotherLover2 said:

PRECISELY!

If a woman popped up on here and said "I have fucked 285 guys" almost everyone would think that she was a giant whore... it is accepted when guys say it.

I just went about making a point in a different way... it is much more provocative when done in an indirect way.

LaVisHh said:

Yes, the evolution of the sexes is such. Likewise, women would do best to make the man work for it and prove himself before offering their bodies, to discover if he has the ability to stick around and protect the offspring.

LaVisHh said:

I know I've replied to you on this before, but once again I'll say that I think too many people give men "permission" to behave this way using "this is how nature intended it to be" as an excuse. The fact of the matter is: we've evolved quite a bit since those days, and "natural sexual instincts" (whom we choose to have sex with, not erections or arousal states) are QUITE controllable, in men and women. If not, they have a mental illness/a brain-chemistry malfunction.

LaVisHh said:

True in a sense... AND, humans are animals. There are animals that are monogamous and humans just might be one of those animals that were meant to be monogamous.

AnotherLover2 said:

Then why is this so common, accepted, and sometimes even admired?

IceNine said:

Ah, but those in the animal kingdom that are monogamous ARE. The majority of humans are NOT. Who here claims to only have had one partner, ever?

I actually find most of (at least American) sexual behavior to be socially constructed these days.

Oh, also Lav: from what I've read, money is usually the biggest problem in marriages, along with communication and sex issues.

Now I've got to get to work! BOO, WORK!

LaVisHh said:

I would argue that monogamy is a characteristic of humanity and that human weakness in the face of temptation is the culprit. Our evolved brain and the nature of our mental processes allows us to "choose" to ignore nature. Indeed, mankind has a long history of subverting nature through various methods, therefore it would not be surprising at all if humans have subverted the natural tendency toward monogamy.

IceNine said:

Of course--and most men would still want to have sex with her (the popularity of gang-bang porn where a woman has sex with hundreds of men attests to this), but 99% of them would never in a million years take her home and introduce her to the family or friends.

An important point I want to make: women hold each other to those same standards. Women will point to another woman and call her a slut, even more quickly than a man will oftentimes. Out of competitition, perhaps, but also because socially accepted female sexuality holds that women keep it private and not flaunt it. Or else you're a porno star, a loose woman.

IceNine said:

Then we disagree. Monogamy might be a characteristic of females, for security and such, but men? I think most men become monogamous for 2 reasons: they got their fill, and are now being realistic; they are aging, and just don't attract the age-group they find attractive.

The number who are monogamous from the very first sexual encounter is less than the fingers on my hand.

LaVisHh said:

It's a social construct--why are Nikes so common, accepted and sometimes even admired?

Because we support it in every aspect of our culture, because that mindframe where the (male) power base is. I'm not saying that men have all of the power, but they tend to live their lives more outwardly than women do. Our culture and what we tend to desire reflects this.

LaVisHh said:

I would point to my friend Moonbeam as an example of a man who will have NOTHING other than monogamy. There are a good number of people like him, but they are often ridiculed so they will not come out and admit it. If we could all be honest and not worry about judgment, we would find that many people feel that way.

People mainly fall into categories and behaviors that are defined by society/culture, therefore many people act out the roles that they are expected to play. This, in effect, subverts monogamy, due to expectation.

AnotherLover2 said:

So are you saying that humans were monogamous back in the times of the caveman? I think not.

Sex exists for the sole purposes of reproduction, from your DNA's point of view. For men, spraying it all over the galaxy ensures that some of his DNA will make it. It's a real force. Women, because they tend to stay with the children did not ever evolve this tendency, but instead evolved the tendency to be very selective (sometimes).

LaVisHh said:

I know plenty of men who are truly, wholly loving of their wives or girlfriends and because of this, they consciously make decisions to be monogamous. Sometimes it takes awhile to find the "right" person to make this commitment to, but it happens. And I know for a fact that due to women making their own money, etc., they don't equate monogamy with financial security so much anymore.

Lav, I'm remembering something you said your ex told you: I hope it hasn't jaded you for good He was a prime candidate for AssHole of the Century.

IceNine said:

So wet dreams and hard-ons come from expectation? I think those who feel the way you do, have already had their "fun".

teller said:

LaVisHh said:

No, I'm saying (pretty clearly, in fact, lol) we have evolved a tremendous amount from that point and we don't have to do it anymore. Like eating meat, for example. I eat it, but I don't try to say I have to or I'm totally programmed and have no control over eating it.

AnotherLover2 said:

Actually, he has jaded me. It really doesn't help that proof is all around me.





.
[This message was edited Wed Jan 8 8:12:30 PST 2003 by LaVisHh]

LaVisHh said:

Wet-dreams and hard-ons come from basic biological processes and hormonal development and are largely confined to adolescence. Nocturnal emissions are relatively rare outside of early sexual development and wet dreams in adults are nothing more than a mental expression of internal desires. Wet dreams have nothing to do with monogamy, nor do adolescent developmental processes.