IF THAT'S A WOMAN THEN I'M MICHAEL JACKSON, DECEASED AND ALL!!


IAAF asks South Africa to conduct gender verification test on rising track star Caster Semenya
http://www.nydailynews.co...frica.html

The IAAF has given new meaning to the term "governing body."

The organization, which oversees track and field internationally, has asked the South African athletics federation to conduct a gender verification exam on the nation's running sensation, Caster Semenya, who Wednesday won the 800-meter event at the World Championships in Berlin.

Semenya finished in 1 minute, 55.45 seconds, the best time in the world this year. Behind her were Janeth Jepkosgei of Kenya (1:57.90) and Jennifer Meadows of Great Britain (1:57.93).

Results won't be available for several weeks, apparently because gender verification has become much more intricate than it was in 1968, when the International Olympic Committee first called for such tests.

The IAAF requested the testing about three weeks ago, when Semenya finished an 800-meter race in Mauritius in 1:56.72, seven seconds faster than her previous best.

The South African track and field federation has neither confirmed nor denied that tests are underway. But if they are, scientists are likely working on a sample of cellular matter donated through a cheek swab, and are looking at chromosomal and hormonal patterns. According to sport by-laws, the panel would include an endocrinologist, a psychologist and others.

There have been numerous instances of outright deception, as well as more ambiguous cases in which athletes classified as women have lived their whole lives with male chromosomal material that they weren't aware of.

In the 1930s, German high jumper Dora Ratjen was revealed to be a man named Hermann, competing as a woman, he claimed, at the insistence of a Nazi government obsessed with the nation's supremacy.

In 1964, Polish runner Ewa Klobukowska won two medals at the 1964 Summer Games in Tokyo but in 1967 failed a chromosome test.

The most notorious gender mystery in sports may be that of Stella Walsh, the Polish sprinter who won several Olympic gold medals in the 1930s. After Walsh was shot and killed during an armed robbery in 1980, an autopsy revealed she possessed both male and female genitalia.

South Africa team manager Phiwe Mlangeni-Tsholetsane told the Associated Press that there was no cheating on his team's part.

"We entered Caster as a woman and we want to keep it that way," Mlangeni-Tsholetsane told The AP. "Our conscience is clear in terms of Caster. We have no reservations at all about that."

Why should she be singled out simply because she looks more masculine than the other women?

If you're going to test her, they should be giving all their athletes this test.

JustErin said:

I agree

JustErin said:

I agree too, I saw another picture where she had longer hair. She does look masculine, BUT, instead of focusing on her achievements people rather call her a man prior to tests results. It's not like she started running overnight. Like she started last week.

Mach said:

And what if some athletes have both female and male chromosomal material or have had sex reassignment surgery and been on hormones for an extended period of time? Should those people be banned from competing?

This goes far deeper than you’re either boy so you compete against boys or you’re a girl so you compete against girls.

But why would you test somebody who clearly looks female and peforms at the same level as other females? If you have someone that looks like a man, peforms like a man and comes from a country that has been known to cheat in the past then it seems appropriate to do the test. If Caster is a dude, and I believe this to be the case, then it's easier for him to compete against females and secure a win rather than compete against males and potentially or even likely lose. It's not fair to the women to have a dude sneaking into their competition; there is no way they would ever be able to compete, he will win each and every time.

JustErin said:

Again I agree ~

and if they are going to test - test away on everyone, like you said - not just those that "look different" than society's so called "norms"

DesireeNevermind said:

Of course it wouldn't be fair I agree. Imo, I rather wait until there is certainty.

DesireeNevermind said:

So the people who may be able to 'pass' as their opposite gender would be ok to compete with no questions asked?

You know, there are some people who can look like their opposite gender and others would never be able to tell just by looking at them. So those people get a pass simply because they fit into some societal mold of what girls and boys look like?

http://prince.org/msg/105/316902

Just read that article in P&R. Interesting story to say the least.
[Edited 8/20/09 10:41am]

I mean there's a difference saying I believe he is or could be a man, than like most do: he IS a man because I saw his weeny sticking out, that definitely was no gun in his pocket. e.g

As for right now I support the accomplishment until it is proven they cheated.

JustErin said:

Well you make a good point Erin but consider that no amount of surgery or hormone therapy is going to change a man's muscle mass, bone density and overall physical build to match exactly that of a natural woman. Men are stronger than women and that's the way nature has designed it. Nobody is saying they can't compete at all but it is certainly not fair to the natural women because this person has an edge over them and would most likely win each and every time. Then what if the natural women wants to take enhancements (say steroids) just so they can compete against a natural man who has taken female hormones and balance it all out? I mean where does one draw the line between fair and honest competition versus altered physical states?

JustErin said:

I agree, they SHOULD test every woman.

I think the issues of sex reassignment and such was actually already being discussed since last year. This isn't the first case of a female athlete being suspected of being a man, though the previous cases involved much younger athletes.

DesireeNevermind said:

Do you know that as fact?

Imago said:

This is first about natural ability/performance. I think Caster's performance in conjunction with his looks was what garnered suspicion. And I do believe when I watch him run I see a slight nutsack that is not visible on the other female athletes. If Caster is not a dude then I'm willing to bet she's on steroids which is still unfair to the other female athletes.

JustErin said:

I don't know as a fact that you can turn a human into an ape but I venture to guess it's damn near impossible. Plus I've seen enough documentaries and medical shows on gender reassignment and the doctors seem to make it a point to tell the guys and the girls that they will never be exactly like the sex they are trying to be reassigned to. If they could guarantee and exact match I'm sure they would say so.

DesireeNevermind said:

If all are tested - there may be others using them as well

Hi Michael

Mach said:

Yep, or probably using the natural type versus synthetic which will give you an edge, more endurance and stamina but not necessarily more muscle like the synthetics.

DesireeNevermind said:

I wasn't talking about making them exact, I was talking specifically about the examples you listed.

JustErin said:

You higlighted my comment which stated "exact match" and that's what I was talking about.

Hard to tell. I watched a video of her, and she sure looks and sounds like a he. And, her ring finger is shorter than her middle finger. Isn't that the hallmark of a man?

But she looks more feminine in other pictures.

RodeoSchro said:

I've always found that fascinating.


not only that but...

South African runner's father, grandmother dismiss gender uproar

BERLIN - A day after winning her first 800-metre world title amid a gender-test controversy, the father of South African teenager Caster Semenya dismissed speculation his daughter is not a woman.

The 18-year-old runner's father, Jacob, told the Sowetan newspaper: "She is my little girl. … I raised her and I have never doubted her gender. She is a woman and I can repeat that a million times."

Semenya dominated her rivals to win the 800 on Wednesday despite revelations that surfaced earlier in the day that she was undergoing a gender test. Her dramatic improvement in the 800 and 1,500, muscular build and deep voice sparked speculation about her gender.

"She said to me she doesn't see what the big deal is all about," South Africa team manager Phiwe Mlangeni-Tsholetsane said Thursday. "She believes it is God given talent and she will exercise it."

Mlangeni-Tsholetsane said Semenya was thrilled about winning the race and picking up her first world title.

"She was over the moon," Mlangeni-Tsholetsane said.

Semenya wasn't the only one wondering what all the fuss was about.

Semenya's paternal grandmother, Maputhi Sekgala, said the controversy "doesn't bother me that much because I know she's a woman."

"What can I do when they call her a man, when she's really not a man? It is God who made her look that way," Sekgala told the South African daily The Times.

About three weeks ago, the IAAF asked the South African athletics federation to conduct the gender test after Semenya burst onto the scene by posting a world leading time of one minute 56.72 seconds at the African junior championships in Bambous, Mauritius.

The test, which takes weeks to complete, requires a physical medical evaluation, and includes reports from a gynecologist, endocrinologist, psychologist, an internal medicine specialist and an expert on gender.

Semenya did not attend the news conference after winning Wednesday night's race by a margin of more than two seconds - finishing in one minute 55.45 seconds. She was replaced at the dais by IAAF general secretary Pierre Weiss.

Weiss said the testing was ordered because of "ambiguity, not because we believe she is cheating."

If the tests show that Semenya is not a woman, she would be stripped of her gold medal.

"But today there is no proof and the benefit of doubt must always be in favour of the athlete," Weiss said.

The most common cause of sexual ambiguity is congenital adrenal hyperplasia, an endocrine disorder where the adrenal glands produce abnormally high levels of hormones.

Gideon Sam, the president of South Africa's Olympic governing body, congratulated Semenya on a "truly remarkable achievement."

"We condemn the way she was linked with such media speculation and allegation, especially on a day she ran in the final of her first major world event," Sam said. "It's the biggest day of her life."

The medal ceremony for the 800 is later Thursday.

Morris Gilbert, a media consultant for TuksSport, the University of Pretoria's sports department, said the issue of Semenya's gender has not been raised since the freshman began attending the school, where she studies sports science.

"We are all very proud of her and of what she's achieved," Gilbert said. "The university stands behind her all the way."

He attributed her recent success to hard work and rigorous training.

"She trains a lot," Gilbert said. "If you go to the athletics track, you're sure to find her there. I don't think she had really good training before she came to the university. She's from a very poor area."

Semenya's former school headmaster said he thought for years that the student was a boy.

"She was always rough and played with the boys. She liked soccer and she wore pants to school. She never wore a dress. It was only in Grade 11 that I realized she's a girl," Eric Modiba, head of the Nthema Secondary School, told the Beeld newspaper.

Semenya's family in the village of Fairlie, about 500 kilometres north of Johannesburg, said she was often teased about her boyish looks.

"That's how God made her," said Semenya's cousin, Evelyn Sekgala. "We brought her up in a way that when people start making fun of her, she shouldn't get upset."

Semenya moved to Fairlie at about age 13 to help care for her grandmother, Maphuthi Sekgala.

Her cousin, who also lives with the grandmother, remembers Semenya playing soccer with the village boys, before a teacher got her interested in running.

Evelyn Sekgala said the family was pleased Semenya took up an interest in sports, and not in drinking and partying like other teenagers. Her grandmother would give her money to enter races.

"She was mainly interested in running," Evelyn Sekgala said. "She wanted to further her athletic dream."

While Semenya's case has attracted a flurry of attention, it's not the first gender controversy in track and field history.

In 2006, the 800 champion at the Asian Games, Santhi Soundarajan of India, was stripped of her medal after failing a gender test. Perhaps the most famous case is that of Stella Walsh, also known as Stanislawa Walasiewicz, a Polish athlete with ambiguous genitalia who won gold in the 100 at the 1932 Olympics.

The IOC conducted the gender tests at the Olympics, but the controversial screenings were dropped before the 2000 Sydney Games.

Among reasons for dropping the test, not all women have standard female chromosomes. In addition, there are cases of people who have ambiguous genitalia or other congenital conditions.

RodeoSchro said:

Wtf? No.

So if they don't believe that cheating has taken place then why do the test at all? What does ambiguity have to do with anything if there is no suspicion of cheating? That's kind of insulting and embarrassing to Caster to insinuate "we don't think you cheated because you are really a man but we just think you are really a man because of how you look".

JustErin said:

looks that way to me. I've always seen guys with ring fingers way shorter than the middle ones. but oh well, that could be just coincidence like hairy knuckles.

DesireeNevermind said:

I just took a poll with the other chicks at work, we ALL have ring fingers shorter than our middle fingers - and a couple of us also have huge natural tits. So maybe that's related somehow too.

I've never heard of that ring finger theory before.