TheEnglishGent said:

Businesses don't close because they don't have enough managers. They close because they don't have enough customers.

Genesia said:

There's the way things should be and the way things are.

Either go for a non-traditional job that allows you to look the way you want to look or modify your look to fit what you want.

Bitching about why things are the way they are isn't going to do much for you. Unless you want to channel that bitching into trying to pass some legislation on discrimination...now that's productive!!

meow85 said:

CarrieAnn said:

exactly!

typically I go to work in the nude veiled in a cloud of my own fart gas

Cuddles said:

for you, with all my love

ZombieKitten said:

Well my job started out with a strict dress code, but little by little people started to slack off somewhat. I try to look professional for work because I feel better when I'm dressed, when it came time for promotions and raises, I was right up there for mine. Our company has visits from top executives unannounced so you never know who's watching you. Think future.

CarrieAnn said:

I agree.

Meow, I have had my nose pierced since 1999 and I have taken it out for every single interview I've ever gone on; and these were at modern/contemporary art museums where it's okay to have funky hair, visible tattoos, etc. I think it just boils down to looking professional for an interview. I usually give myself a French manicure, wear my hair pulled back (if long enough for a pony tail) and always, always wear a suit.

Regardless of whether 60% of young Canadians have visible body modifications, those are not the people you are trying to impress on your interview. (And honestly, that argument sounds like a child complaining, "Well everyone else gets to do it, why can't I?")

Once you get the job, they should have a dress code; you can then see if your piercings are acceptable. I just wore my nose ring on my first day, most of the time people don't notice for months. (Just my experience.) If you discover that piercing are not allowed, then you make a choice - quit or adhere to the policy.

It's not logical
It's not fair

But it is life

I'd love to have a few visible piercings and tats, but for now since I work in education, any body modifications I make have to be under cover

thekidsgirl said:

All the people in my nursing school class that have tattoos have to cover them during clinicals. Some of them mofos are gonna be wearing turtlenecks in the summer.

hokie said:

When I was in high school I had a MAJORLY hot young English teacher who ALWAYS wore long sleeves and a couple of my friends and I caught him rolling up his sleeves after school and his arm was covered in tattoos

.
[Edited 9/9/09 21:24pm]

Genesia said:

Horsecrap. That store was always ridiculously busy. The stated reason for closing was lack of management. They've got no one to blame but themselves.

jone70 said:

That's great and all, but it still begs the question: What IS "professional"?

Besides, I hardly think pointing out that people who adorn themselves in the same horribly offensive, unprofessional way I do are actually the majority is childish whining. It's the truth. What sort of thought process ignores two thirds of qualified potential employees?
[Edited 9/9/09 22:50pm]

CarrieAnn said:

It's not discrimination, it's just stupidity.

hokie said:

Because clearly, passing out with heatstroke is the more professional option.

It seems you are always going to have a better answer, or more logical argument than any of the reasons given. It also seems that you're not going to just say, 'Oh well, looks like I'll have to forego my nose ring for a decent job'. Enough people have said, it isn't fair, it's just the way it is and that's about as good as you're going to hear. It is honestly beginning to sound like attitude is more of an issue than any piercing, although I may be way off the mark as it is easy to read things differently than they are spoken when reading forums.

What I will say though is this. In my previous job, I conducted interviews and many of them. I would never not offer someone a job based purely on the fact that they had a piercing, in fact, I even employed someone with eyebrow and nose piercings. What I would always do though, is ask that person how they'd feel about removing any facial jewelry for work. The way a person responds to that request can tell you an awful lot about them and help to form a judgement on how they'll respond to life in the work place.

Now this judgement may be right, or it may not, but in the interview process, especially where there are many applicants, these judgements and gut feelings go a long way to narrowing the field down. This process starts right from the point of receiving the application, where a scruffy hand written CV might get put in the no pile.

As I said before, it's an employers market and it would help your cause greatly if you started seeing it from their side. Either take away as many negatives as you can and land a job more quickly. Or just keep rolling along to the interviews time after time and failing for the same reason.

My 3 cents...

It's a problem with short-term jobs, because often the companies that offer such "opportunities" are stereotypically managed by middle-aged individuals with rather stereotypical views on pretty much everything. That's one of the more practical aspects that will keep on pushing societies more and more towards homogeneity, even if in the larger perspective it would seem like people would be more "open-minded" than ever. Since especially younger people these days will have to keep on shifting from one location to another, from one temporary line of work to another, it also means that they will have to adapt to some very stereotypical notions on what an individual should look like and how they should behave publicly in order to be able to ensure that they won't completely fall out of the loop. When people start toning down their appearance usually after the mid-twenties, I don't see it necessarily as a sign of "maturation" but it's also a matter of "forced adaption" (another, dirtier word for that would be "conformism"). Officially speaking everyone is allowed to look like whatever they would want to look like, but the practical constaints just mean that in an increasing fashion (no pun intended) such freedom is allowed really for just teenagers who are still supported by their parents. That's not to say many teenagers wouldn't look like stupid assholes when "expressing their individuality".

As far as just "having a line of work of your own" goes, it shouldn't be a problem - in fact, I've myself made sure that the freaks and weirdos have gotten selected to the music-related jobs in case I've had a saying too in who we are going to take in. My personal strategy has been basically just to avoid being so dependent on the typical thrusting between one job to another and "building a career" -line of thinking, because in the end that will work for very few. Despite their efforts and sacrifices regarding their own lifestyles, so many will end up just falling flat on their faces in the end, which I think is a case proven by the current situation.

In that sense, people who choose to look a bit different and have rather different worldviews of their own will end up forming their own peer groups and ensuring some sort of security amongst their own peer group. The trick is just the find the right individuals you will click with - in the current climate however, the multinational corporation -mentality that's been spreading everywhere just means there are fewer and fewer opportunities to end up connecting with such individuals anyway. One of the problems with the current period of economic recession is that they are attempting to fight it back with the same mentality that actually caused it, which is to say, idealizing the fraudulent productivity / organisational -values that are usually associated with the more successful end of the business life. Unfortunately such line of thinking is usually founded and also sustained by pretty vague associations and unfounded assumptions on what constitutes the ideal of a good worker that will actually benefit the company / organization. Such things are based on very simplistic, naively interpreted attributes that can be said to signal loyalty to the larger establishment. In that sense, "a certain type of hair" can become a problem to certain employers, but you can ask yourself what are your chances even realistically speaking to advance in a line of work if your hair is a problem in that environment to begin with. Will you be able to connect sufficiently with the rest of their values that will ensure that you will be not only get promoted in the lung run, but also able to just ensure your job during harder financial times? My own rule in life is just to simply attempt to stay the fuck away from individuals for whom things like slightly deviating personal appearance is a problem, because that just signals that a whole lot of things can become potentially a "problem" to them as well, and that they are running their own business endeavours based on rather awry assumptions anyway.

Thnx 4 reading. A bit too long, sorry.

meow85 said:

If you must do it in order to be able to pay the rent and not ending up homeless and losing your personal property, then you should do it. If it's not mandatory and such an urgent matter then I'd just question the "inner voice" that keeps telling you that you should change for the sake of something that exists merely in terms of being a potential job opportunity.

On the other hand, what you look like during the work day itself really should matter rat's ass if you're allowed to look whatever you want after the work hours. The peircings, tattoos and the hair will become the problem usually.

You're putting too much thought into the shit, Meow. It depends on where you're trying to work. Record stores, dive bars & tatoo parlors welcome that shit, corporations don't. Take it out for the interview. Once you're in, slip the shit back on piece by piece over time. The holes won't close if you wear them at home & on the weekends. Make the choice already - starve or leave the jewels out'cha face. It's simple - why ask why if you already know why?


[Edited 9/10/09 3:26am]

some places only make you put a bandaid or tape over the piercing. I see that all the time, like the girl selling tickets at the aquarium in San Francisco for example, no big deal. I think most folks think that's pretty stupid and sympathise.

ZombieKitten said:

isn't it more distracting to be looking at someone with a giant band-aid on her nose/eyebrow/lip than to see one tiny piece of jewelry? At least I know when I see that I tend to end up staring for a second thinking how stupid that looks

thekidsgirl said:

it does look stupid, but it does also highlight how dumb the rule is - I saw a guy sporting blue duct tape over his eyebrow. I took it as a protest. I'd rather see the ring.

ZombieKitten said:

I'd rather see the ring too! When I worked at the coffeehouse my friend Ant wore bright band-aids on his eyebrow and lip to hide his and he looked like he'd lost a fight with a forth-grader

thekidsgirl said:

I'd wear my Jesus band-aids!

meow85 said:

You just have alllll the answers, don't you?

Go ahead...wear the piercings. Flash the ink. Don't get a job. It's no skin off their nose.

Because remember - no matter what the government dictates, the real minimum wage is always zero. Which is what they pay when they don't hire you.

get a job doing whatever this lady is doing!

I just saw an interview with this slovenly looking lady-shapeless muumuu tee, ill fitting cheap polyester pants, and hair uncombed and spiky. And she was an older lady who should have known better. Meanwhile I usually interview in my "interview suit". I have tats but they are easily covered. I do believe maybe in 20 years or so it won't be an issue anymore, but for now it hasn't changed and you do have to think about if you have a certain type of job, your appearance. It is funny though because a good portion of the clientele these days are tatted and pierced so I'm sure down the line it really won't be a concern.

meow85 said:

Where are you applying to? Man, I live in one of the most conservative cities in the country, work in an office setting and 3 employees here have facial piercing of some kind or another here.

Plenty of that so called 60% are landing jobs of all sorts.

Genesia said:

Exactly.

And maybe they just used the nose ring issue as an excuse when really there was something else that made them decide not to hire you.