BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Spoken like true LAc

AnotherLover2 said:

point blank...
if you need to continually ask
that they not do a thing, and they
do it anyway, they are not looking
for any compromise, they are looking
only to do whut they want at the
exspence of your friendship.
this is not your friend, or better yet
this is not a friend to you.

00769BAD said:

TEST-IFY, REVEREND!

Its not about whether things go smoothly in the friendship for me. People, my friends included, I am sure have lied to me in the past about silly stuff. That doesn't bother me. What works in a friendship for me is how I feel around that person. What has been either out in the open negotiated, or is just a way of the friendship working out? For example, i have a friend, who I feel very comfortable with. We can speak about anything and can challenge each other comfortably and safely, because we have developed trust with each other. Now, with another of my friends, that is not so present. We don't seem to be able to understand each other on a deeper level and our friendship works best when we see each other on neutral ground or every few weeks. Talking about clothes or light hearted subjects and having a little fun is what our friendship is based on. We haven't discussed that though. My other friend, we can discuss the dynamics of our friendship and what we both want from it.

I think it has to do with communication and how I feel. If I feel really uncomfortable with a friend and communication has broken down, then I move on. Other reasons I have moved on, have been about being with people on courses and the courses have finished... leaving jobs...just general growing apart.

Therapy said:

Communication breaking down--will you talk more about that?

AnotherLover2 said:

Friendship ends when there's no trust. It could continue as fake friendship, and sometimes even grow back to real friendship, but basically trust is what determinds if it's real or not.

SilentChatter said:

Yeah, trust is huge, isn't it? When there's a history of broken promises or unreliability or lack of confidentiality, it can really undermine a sense of trust, huh?

A long, long time ago, my gf had this friend she worked with named Kim...her friend seemed like a very nice woman for the most part, but had this irritating quality that for the life of me I can't remember what it was...lol...but it bugged my gf to no end, and whenever we'd visit Kim, by the time we left, 90% of the time my gf was complaining about this aspect of Kim..."Why does she have to..."..."Gawd, I hate it when Kim..."..."It's so irritating that she..."...and on and on...

Finally, it got to the point where, after yet another complaint fest about Kim after leaving her apartment, I said to my gf "Look...Kim is who she is...that's just her, and either you need to accept it and continue being friends, or decide you can't and move on...but this constant bitching time and time again about Kim isn't doing you or your friendship any good..."..Of course she was mad at me for saying that...lol...but later she said I was right and that she decided that, irritating quality to the side, she still liked Kim enough to want to stay friends with her...after that, whatever it was that bothered her about Kim stopped holding so much importance and weight in her eyes...she'd laugh about it after spending time with Kim instead of complaining about it...

So for me, I think real friendship never reaches a point of asking "should I end it", only "how should I deal with it"...friendships don't last because there's never any strife within them...friendships last because real friendship has at its core a mindset shared between two people which says "No matter what occurs between us, no matter how much time passes, I'll always be glad to have you in my life"...if that sentiment isn't felt within them or within you, then it's not friendship they feel towards you, and it's not friendship you feel towards them...its an aquaintanceship, which is also valuable but is also far more likely to have both a beginning and an end...friendship only has a beginning...

There's the saying that "If it can end, then it's not friendship"...that quotation always stuck inside my mind, and I believe it to be true...

For every friend, for every lover, for every person in our lives there is a reason, a season, or a lifetime...

sag10 said:

Exactly...so very true...sometimes the hard part is realizing it, accepting it, and most difficult of all appreciating it...it's something I've worked on, and continue to...

AnotherLover2 said:

I will...!

Communication break downs... when only one party is interested in working at problems in the friendship, or none are interested in working at problems in the friendship. The communication in a relationship can be tricky at times - some subjects can be painful to talk about between friends, for what ever reason. I believe that if there is a problem within the friendship and both are willing to explore this problem(s), then the willingness itself usually lends itself to some kind of solution to the problem. If one person, or both are avoiding dealing with problem issues, then I believe the friendship suffers.

AnotherLover2 said:

Once again, I say that the best friendships are between not only two friends that trust each other, but between two friends that trust themselves.

I am so lucky to have one best friend who I can share this kind of friendship with. Thank you Clare

WOULD YOUR FRIEND...
come by and ask you to 'sit' their PRIZED PET MICE
then put them into the 'pit' with your
PRIZED PET SNAKES and expect to hold you
responsible for their safety... NO!!!
but in so called friendships, people have
asked for WAY MORE.
they don't end the FRIENDSHIP, because NOW
they have something over the other person...
GUILT!!!
is this your FRIEND???

mistermaxxx said:

Same here((from big momma too))

Thankfuly, I didn't experience that and I surely hope not. I try to keep my friendship circle very "narrow" but I attend to know other ppl and have a good vibe with them. I only have ONE best friend, if you tell yo secrets to mo' than one then they're not scerets no mo'. But I'm a good company even with those who are strangers.

wellbeyond said:

Gotta co-sign that one.

I don't throw the word "friend" around too often,
although I've gotten a little careless lately.
I tend to do house-cleaning every decade it seems,
and if I have to ask why a relationship exists,
I already know it's over. But usually, that does
not involve anyone I've called a friend.

CalhounSq said:

I would have never guessed... :p

What am I doing?

I have a person in my life who I call my friend. In the past, she has come into my home, she has ridiculed my sons haircut, I have felt paranoia, doubt, anger towards her for her saying things like 'Oh come on man... look at his hair...' Me - 'Well I love it, and the friends I have come over think it is cute to' Her - 'Well, they are obviously humouring you and lying!'

I, in general, feel intimidated by her. She says she is being herself. The question is not about trying to make her any different. The question is, do I want to have her in my life still?

Now the example I gave above is one of many times, where I feel she has overstepped my boundaries of respecting another persons feelings. Another example... She asked to stay in my flat for the weekend while I was visiting my boyfriend. Before I left, I set up my computer so that she could not access it. Why? It's that I have written a lot about my private feelings onto my computer. And I didn't want her to access these. I don't trust her with what I feel, so I don't tell her anymore. I don't know whether she would have looked at my private notes or not. It was not about not trusting her because she may have been nosey. It was about not being able to take the risk of her seeing my feelings somehow. Yes, one leads to the other. But I wouldn't have been angry with the fact that she had accessed my notes. I wouldn't have made a big deal of the act of breaking trust with that action. It would have been about the fear of her knowing my vulnerabilities... about her knowing my pain, my fears, my love, my happiness, my laughter...

When I saw her after the weekend, we had a little argument. She didn't respect my decision to lock my computer and had a go at me for doing so.

When I meet with her in a neutral place, I feel safe with her. We don't have to talk about anything to do with how I feel etc. In fact, I make a point of not sharing myself with her nowadays. I feel the need to openly negotiate my boundaries to her, to say that I think our friendship works best when we are having a drink in a bar. I would like to see her every couple of weeks.

00769BAD - I do feel guilt and I think that's half the reason why I stay in this friendship. To be honest, I want to say 'See ya!' and run for the hills. I stay, I think out of fear of saying it and guilt.

How shit is this situation?

Furthermore, she seems to always choose moments in my life when I am at my most vulnerable to unleash her bullshit my way and make comments that are either hurtful, ridiculing, etc...

I think I need to really think about whether I want this to continue and take some responsibility in making some kind of decision/choice.
[This message was edited Tue Jan 7 12:44:58 PST 2003 by Therapy]

How long have you known this person, Therapy??...Have they always been "upfront" and blunt like that, or is it something that just started happening one day??...I guess I'm trying to figure out why you considered them a friend to begin with...lol

But I do agree with you...it's hard to consider someone a friend when they can so easily ridicule and make fun of someone you love so much (as you do your son)...regardless of what she may feel inside, it's definitely disrespectful to both you and the relationship you have with your son to constantly make fun and ridicule...it says a lot about her, I think...and none of it good...

If you can find a way to have a friendship with her in which that doesn't continue, then I think it's great... But if you can't, then it's time to step away...

Therapy,

Fear should never be a part of a friendship...
even if it seems to be ending.

Take a closer look at what's going on, okay?
Not just from her standpoint, but most
importantly, from yours.

There's a reason why you've let this relationship
exist in the first place. Get to the bottom of it.

(Geez, I'm starting to sound like Dr. Phil!!!)

friendships end begin come go...for reasons of their own
if its bad u have to learn to let it go there are some bridges not worth standing.

furthermore people come into your life to fulfill a certain amount of work when they are done if they don't leave freely u have to help them along...

cyber friendships are great u're safe to a degree for i may choose to read my email or not respond at will... actual personal relations are harder but i am completely ruthless with people when they have hit the last nerve...

Therapy u seem like a nice conservative well meaning person and this person is taking complete advantage of that knowing u are too wellbehaved to respond to her with the crass disrespect she deserves... revenge is a dish best served cold - that means give as good as u get...throw it right back at her...she'll calm down or she'll step either way u are better off...
[This message was edited Tue Jan 7 18:21:23 PST 2003 by ScarLett]

wellbeyond said:

I guess I (respectfully) disagree: I think there are "dealbreakers" in friendships. It took me awhile to understand, but I one day figured out that unconditional love doesn't equal allowing myself to be disrespected/dishonored.

A bit of clarification as to why I'm going on and on, asking y'all so many questions about friendship:

This question has special poignance to me right now, because the young woman I've been friends with the longest (since 6th grade) recently suffered a tragedy--she miscarried in her 7th month of pregnancy back in November. Now, the way this has to do with friendship is that she is experiencing sadness, frustration and (now) anger over the fact that several of her friends haven't responded to her loss in what she considers a supportive way.

I was lucky enough to fly home to Michigan for the holidays, and I drove several hours to Indiana to see her. (Of course, beforehand I'd also spoken to her on the telephone a few times as well) During our short visit we cried, laughed, talked and ran the whole gamut of emotions together. We also experienced joy while playing and interacting with her funny, little almost-2 yr.-old son. And then towards the end of my visit, she began sobbing uncontrollably, talking about the friends whom she felt had abandoned her in her time of need, and of how even just the smallest tokens of friendship from them would have meant so much. She told me she could understand how uncomfortable it could be for a person to try to deal with such a profound topic--but believed a "true friend" would have put aside their fears as best they could to extend their love to her.

Well, obviously this was difficult for me to hear. She's one of the most genuinely kind, loving, animated, good-hearted people I know and would be there in a heartbeat for any of her friends. And while I do realize I'm better equipped than most, due to my profession of being a Maternity Social Worker, to "be there" for people and handle the difficult, uncomfortable emotions of others,I found myself growing angry on her behalf as well. She wanted my advice on how to deal with these friends, and whether to continue the relationships, because it was eating her up.

I have to admit, this was difficult for me to do (give her advice on this) because, at the same time that she was grieving, I was in a weak emotional state as well. The same week she miscarried, I found I had a potentially serious problem with my lungs AND my car had been stolen AND my father had 2 stints put into his lungs! And I'd been feeling alone with these problems in this new city I'd just (so bravely ) moved to by myself. I wanted to be cautious in my replies to her, because in a way, her pain echoed my own: there was a particular friend whom I'd reached out to in my state of chaos and fear and pain, and in return felt I'd been given a delayed, superficial, token response. With no explanation as to why. So, at the time that my friend who'd lost her baby was asking for my advice, I was also feeling rejected by a friend I'd invested hope and caring into. I didn't want to project my own shit onto her, so I really felt like I didn't help her much in that area. Plus, it's quite common for grieving persons to scapegoat others in order not to focus on their own issues...

Phew...long post, I know, sorry! I'm almost done!

Anyway--thank you to everyone who posted their opinions, personal experiences and ideas. I suppose in these last few weeks, I've been wondering if I told her the "right" things, asking myself how I could've helped her more, been a better friend. Your replies have echoed my own in myriad ways--so thank you, everyone. I think I was a good friend to her and told her some "right" stuff

Carrie Ann (AnotherLover)
[This message was edited Tue Jan 7 19:54:32 PST 2003 by AnotherLover2]

RoseOfSharon said:

AnotherLover2 said:

Sometimes it's hard 2 say just WHY a friendship or relationship 4 that matter, ends. a person definately needs some explanation as 2 WHY they r being discarded (so 2 speak), or the person doing the discarding could b labeled a "coward". it's VERY hard to b involved with a person who is ULTRA SENSITIVE 4 example...as u find yourself walking on egg shells ALL THE TIME, which is very stressful. the whole concept of friendships/relationships (2 me) is 2 b able 2 express oneself verbally and physically & still b accepted by the other person. they dont have to necessarily like EVERYTHING u do or say, AND Lord knows we ALL have faults...try to find a person u like EVERYTHING about or agree with all the time. not possible. not expected. so when we choose our friends we have to decide what we can tolerate and what we cant right away, bcuz the further it goes along, the more attached one bcomes & the harder it is 2 break it off, but if it bcomes necessary 2 do so, and sometimes it does, 4 various reasons too numerous to list, i will always give a person my reason, as I expect the same from them. lots of times, it's just a misunderstanding that can b discussed and rectified. just ignoring someone, and disappearing into thin air with no explanation is cruel to say the least. cowardly.

moor ytpme

DJEmale said:

wtf???
empty room?
guess that answers all my questions then...thanks for taking the time...

[This message was edited Wed Jan 8 15:12:29 PST 2003 by lillith]

Regarding that friend. I saw her this evening. We talked about a lot of the things I mentioned above. I have realised so much tonight. Mainly, I understand why I have reacted the way I have because of where I have been at inside. I have more respect for her and accept her more after talking with her very openly this evening. She does say exactly what is on her mind. She can be blunt. She is honest. What the problem for me has been, is to realise that I can say 'Well, this is how I feel' and stick with myself. I have more confidence and feel more trusting of myself to speak with her in a way where I can stand by myself.

I've thought countless times about leaving this friendship. It is because I have been scared of her, scared to stand my ground. I have perhaps misinterpreted some of the things that she has said to me, due to various reasons. I feel that I am in a place where I feel I have the know-how and willingness and love for myself to say 'Ok, so you are the way you are, and I am the way I am. I no longer need to back away from telling you about me, because I am not so affected by what happened with my parents, which, has had an effect on the way that I relate with you.' That's what it has been about folks... repeating patterns in my relationship with my parents, with her. It is all very complex... I just know that I feel safer and empowered and comfortable within myself. And, we talked about what works and what doesn't and what could be improved in our friendship in what I considered to be a really productive way.

Funny isn't it? Here I have been talking about ending my friendship with her... then, for several reasons, I was thinking just before she arrived, that i wasn't really looking forward to seeing her, and wondered if something may come out tonight... and now that she has gone and a fucking lot happened! I talked with her about some issues in the past, about how I feel about them, my not liking xyz...I was able to appreciate at the same time that she feels the way that she does and understand why... we kind of negotiated where our friendship works best...I learnt a lot about why and how I work in the ways that I do...and feel ok with that... Most importantly, I didn't feel intimidated by her... I hope I can hold on to this and continue to speak about my feelings and thoughts in this way, because this feels really healthy man

Ahhh... I love being in my skin sometimes