Graycap23 said:

yeah either men & women should compete against each other or not. I don't think we should make exceptions to this rule just because she was traumatized by finding this out.

NDRU said:

but she's isn't a man.

ehuffnsd said:

or a woman

NDRU said:

she is a woman.

ehuffnsd said:

psychologically, or physically?


It seems to me she is both male & female
[Edited 9/17/09 14:23pm]

NDRU said:

both.

ehuffnsd said:

And what about her male parts?

NDRU said:

her male parts are internal testicles, which if refer to post #80

ehuffnsd said:

right.

The notion that she has lived as a woman, identifies as a woman, and therefore IS a woman is kinda touchy feely, PC, and quite honestly the kind of support she needs, personally. Her family & friends should support her with this. And if she wants to live life as a woman, good for her.

But she is not only a woman. She has testicles. To corrupt the integrity of an entire sport that is based on pure physical requirements (division of sexes, drug testing, etc.) to protect her emotions is kind of ridiculous, I think.
[Edited 9/17/09 14:59pm]

NDRU said:

everyone should have submit to testing now?

ehuffnsd said:

I don't know. I don't think sports are always fair to the individual athlete, but I do understand they try their best to protect the purity of the competition.

For example, LPGA members can compete in the PGA, but not the other way around. Not exactly fair, but the rule protects the integrity of the LPGA.

Same with this rule. It protects womens' running as a whole. Even if it's not fair to this person who was not technically at fault for anything morally or ethically. But it sure sucks for her because they not only fucked up her life, they took away the thing she was best at.

Graycap23 said:

Sour grapes, they lost, she won. The other women want her broken down on a molecular level because they are mad she won. She is fast and she has a pussy, and she is not tucking a dick up the crack of her ass... end of story.

What's next? "I want that runner disqualified because her legs are longer than mine NO FAIR! "

NDRU said:

everyone should have to submit to testing now?

ehuffnsd said:

I don't know. I don't think sports are always fair to the individual athlete, but I do understand they try their best to protect the purity of the competition.

For example, LPGA members can compete in the PGA, but not the other way around. Not exactly fair, but the rule protects the integrity of the LPGA.

Same with this rule. It protects womens' running as a whole. Even if it's not fair to this person who was not technically at fault for anything morally or ethically. But it sure sucks for her because they not only fucked up her life, they took away the thing she was best at.

NDRU said:

That part of it is what angers me, couldn't this be classified under "natural ability" since she is not taking any muscle enhancing drugs?

paintedlady said:

yeah and the implication that she was "cheating" is ridiculous

I see this thread has some life in it now that the results are in, which I knew the answer already.

I think the cheating part is on Caster's country. I think they knew what was up, this testing is bullshit IMO, and they knew all along what Caster's condition was. It's an insult to womens sports that just because a dude lacks a penis and thinks he's a woman, that he get's to compete as one.

Here's the break down

Caster does not have mammary glands, uterus, ovaries but he does have testicles and a prostrate gland and adam's apple. That is all male and not female. His physique is very manly when you compare him with the women.

Why don't they let him compete against men? I think it's because a win against females is guaranteed but if he competed against men then he would have a chance of losing because it would be a fair and even competition. If his parents honestly raised him that way then I feel sorry for him because his life could have been different and even more comfortable. He should not compete against women because he is physically male and therefore the women would be cheated because men are stronger. We don't allow women to compete in the men's sports either which would also be stupid.

DesireeNevermind said:

Where did you get this info? Link?

Des, you just happy that you are not Michael Jackson.

I just wonder why no one knew, no one knew....and yet when most people saw just a picture they knew something wasn't right.

WHY did her coaches put her out there to be embarrassed? She also said she had been teased for her masculine characteristics for years. It just seems like the clues were a little out there....

JustErin said:

there is no link because she is making the shit up.

paintedlady said:

Based on these results, if u were a competitor of hers, that is how u would feel?

DesireeNevermind said:

Shit, you're really going after this. And to hell with the facts. How are you so sure about what you're saying?

ehuffnsd said:

How about you just get off your high horse's hind quarters and look the stories up yourself and while you're at it, try researching hermaphroditism, intersex, female organs and Caster Semenya all together. There are several thousand links but I get that you wouldn't want to do the work because you wouldn't like the answer.


Here's a few to get your lazy ass started though

http://www.mail.com/Artic...=3&pNext=0

http://www.dailytelegraph...5771672245

http://www.news.com.au/st...01,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk...-iaaf-test

http://www.3dscience.com/...natomy.php

There's plenty more but you should do the work to prove me wrong if you think you can.

Also for your own education

All zygotes (fertilized egg in the womb) start out with no gender. As the zygote develops into a fetus, it begins to eventually take on gender characteristics. In fact, all fetuses begin with a single genital fold that further develops... clitoris or penis, vulva or scrotum... they start out the same. So all unborn babies have nipples. If they are female then they develop into breasts with functioning mammary glands for lactating (breast feeding) and Caster aint got em.


The sperm is made by and stored in the testicles (Caster has internal testicles), inside the scrotum. Spermatogenesis (creation of sperm) is stimulated by the hormone testosterone (Caster has testosterone) and is a continuous process unlike female ovulation (Caster does not ovulate because he has no ovaries).

Since Caster has been identified as hermaphrodite or psuedo hermaphrodite by some, and lacked all the female parts at birth, coupled with his masculine physique it is quite obvious that he is male but raised female as many archaic cultures and medical practices deem the absence of a functioning penis must equal female. I say hell no, it takes a lot more than that to be female and it does a disservice to Caster and others like him who may grow up with male urges but robbed of their true identity. To call Caster a female simply cuz he has no dick is like calling a woman who had her uterus removed due to cancer a Male because she no longer can house babies in her body. Utter jibberish and sexism on both sides!!! I feel sorry for Caster because I think he just may end up killing himself amidst all this undesirable news.


AND

check out his deep ass voice and adam's apple as he gives interview

http://www.youtube.com/wa...93bw9mwxn0

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

DesireeNevermind said:

i've attended siminars, lectures and know many well known intersexed activists. i think i know what i'm talking about.

also none of us know what disorder she has. that's between her and her doctors.
[Edited 9/18/09 13:26pm]

ehuffnsd said:

not a woman either. he is either neither sex or a man with undescended testes and no penis. given that he is missing all the female parts then he is no doubt man. Just because his parents programmed him to think he is a girl doesn't make it so.

ehuffnsd said:

apparently everyone commenting on this subject knows what they are talking about.

DesireeNevermind said:

unlike everyone else i know what intersex is. i know people that are openly intersexed, have for years, attend siminars on gender and sexuality all the time. and am an activist for sexual and gender minorities. we don't know what disorder she has to begin with please refer to post 80
[Edited 9/18/09 13:33pm]

ehuffnsd said:

so are the people who are reporting on it and have blogged about it. it's interesting to me how clearly divided people are on the subject even those who appear to be so called activists. I still say there is an underlying sexual discrimination amidst all this intersex ideology. I call it ideology because again, if a man doesn't have a dick then people want to make him female. That frame of thought is inheritently primitive IMO. Even unichs in India, who get castrated either against their will or willingly get called women even though they have no female organs and functioning mammary glands.

There are possibly many people who have their sex/gender determined for them at birth or childhood and it is not fair considering that they have not hit puberty yet and have not been allowed to make the determination for themselves and what they feel they are. I think this happened to Caster. He was not deemed male because he had no penis and his testes were not on the outside to be seen so he got categorized female by some archaic default. He is male because he lacks all that a female would have at birth (ovaries, uterus, estrogen, fallopian tubes etc) and has the male parts minus the penis. his whole build and speaking voice and the way he carries himself is male. If you bing or google you will find reports of his childhood classmates who thought he was male and how in his teen years he had experiences where he was not allowed to enter female restrooms b/c he was deemed male. It's not only what he's missing on the inside but what is visible on the outside. When all this is said and done...Caster will be rightfully categorized as physically male but probably mentally female given that is how he was raised.

The female reproductive system is a component of the 3D female Anatomy Collection and is compatible with the other Zygote female anatomy systems. Features of the Female Reproductive System include:

- Mammary glands - Caster is missing these
- Ducts - Caster is missing these
- Vagina - Caster reportedly has this but perhaps missing the inner labia. Plus let's keep in mind that this is one of two feminine parts that can be recreated in a doctor's lab. The other is breast by way of implants.
- Uterus - Caster is missing this
- Ovaries - Caster is missing these
- Fallopian tubes - Caster is missing these

p.s.
a guy who goes to prison and takes it up the ass either by force or willingly gets called a "bitch" which is a derogatory female term. I think all this speaks to how men deem women inferior and how they pretty much worship their own cocks. Caster was missing a cock so he got robbed of his manhood and his country in turn tried to rob other women of their right to compete fairly against their own kind. If we want to eliminate sex and gender all together then either test everybody and keep the sports separate or let men and women compete against each other in everything.

Graycap23 said:

I would feel like a heel for thinking I was part of a mob that ruined a person's life because I lost a race.

The competitor's were accusing her of cheating, "impersonating a woman". She did no such thing, she thought she was a woman. Yeah, she didn't look too feminine, but that wasn't her doing. She is not at fault, she won, fair and square due to he natural ability. There is no way you can make me see otherwise. The other runners need to raise their game. Having a dick doesn't make you a faster runner.