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Spike Lee Puts Tyler Perry On Blast! *On this weekend’s "Our World with Black Enterprise," director Spike Lee sits down with host Ed Gordon for a no holds barred interview rife with the artist’s trademark frankness.
Taped live at the 14th annual Black Enterprise Entrepreneurs Conference, Lee discusses his concern about the image of blacks in the media, and weighs in with his thoughts on contemporaries John Singleton and Tyler Perry. [See details below.] "Our World with Black Enterprise" will air its exclusive interview with Spike Lee on Saturday, May 30, and Sunday, May 31 on syndicated stations across the country. Highlights include: On his films being labeled “controversial”: I think journalists are lazy—how do you define people with one word? The subject matters we’ve done in my films—I don’t think they are controversial. I don’t think racism is controversial, it’s thought provoking. If you look at how we dealt with that in Do The Right Thing, Jungle Fever, Malcolm X [etc.]. I don’t think School Daze was controversial. We looked at what I feel are the superficial differences that keep us from being a more unified people. Superficial differences based on skin complexion, hair texture, class—that type of stuff. That’s not controversial. On stereotypical images of blacks in the media: Each artist should be allowed to pursue their artistic endeavors but I still think there is a lot of stuff out today that is “coonery” and buffoonery. I know it’s making a lot of money and breaking records, but we can do better. … I am a huge basketball fan, and when I watch the games on TNT, I see these two ads for these two shows (Tyler Perry’s "Meet the Browns" and "House of Payne") and I am scratching my head. … We got a black president and we going back to Mantan Moreland and Sleep ‘n’ Eat? On Tyler Perry and what the black consumer (really) wants to see: We’ve had this discussion back and forth. When John Singleton [made Boyz in the Hood], people came out to see it. But when he did Rosewood, nobody showed up. So a lot of this is on us! You vote with your pocketbook, your wallet. You vote with your time sitting in front of the idiot box, and [Tyler Perry] has a huge audience. We shouldn’t think that Tyler Perry is going to make the same film that I am going to make, or that John Singleton or my cousin Malcolm Lee [would make]. As African Americans, we’re not one monolithic group so there is room for all of that. But at the same time, for me, the imaging is troubling and it harkens back to Amos n’ Andy. On the election of a black President: It was witnessing history. It was like being alive when Jackie Robinson integrated baseball, when Joe Louis knocked out (Max) Schmeling—it was like that. When Jackie Robinson played for the Dodgers, every African American in this country was praying for him. When Joe Louis fought and won, black communities—in Detroit, Harlem, Chicago—black communities from all over the world would come out of the house after listening to Joe knock out those guys on the radio … and celebrate. With [President Obama’s victory] it was the same thing! *** Leave it to Mr.Lee to tell it like it is  | |
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I've never seen a Tyler Perry movie, just the ads. I remember his plays being very successful (at least I thought they were).
Why is it coonery? (serious question) Is that just based on the fact that it uses stereotypes? Similar debate (portrayal of community) is present among gays also. GlAAD is always blasting any movie/show that might have a "stereotypical" gay in it. And I kinda get that, we have butch cops and businessmen and such, but we also have a lot of sissy hairdressers.  | |
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johnart said: I've never seen a Tyler Perry movie, just the ads. I remember his plays being very successful (at least I thought they were).
Why is it coonery? (serious question) Is that just based on the fact that it uses stereotypes? Similar debate (portrayal of community) is present among gays also. GlAAD is always blasting any movie/show that might have a "stereotypical" gay in it. And I kinda get that, we have butch cops and businessmen and such, but we also have a lot of sissy hairdressers. I don't think Spike is referring to Tyler's movies as Coonery, but he is referring to his shows as that. I feel the same way as Spike. The shows that Tyler has on TBS are reminiscent of the Amos and Andy days when blacks were stereotyped as loud and over the top characters. To me, a character like "Brown" or "Curtis" on the 2 sitcoms on TBS are embarassing to the black race. I say that because those characters are nothing like real people. The same can be said of Tyler's Madea character. She is a gun-toting, cigarette smoking, bat swinging grandmother that will curse someone out. Though most black americans know someone like that, it is still too over the top, therefore can be categorized as Coonery also. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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daPrettyman said: johnart said: I've never seen a Tyler Perry movie, just the ads. I remember his plays being very successful (at least I thought they were).
Why is it coonery? (serious question) Is that just based on the fact that it uses stereotypes? Similar debate (portrayal of community) is present among gays also. GlAAD is always blasting any movie/show that might have a "stereotypical" gay in it. And I kinda get that, we have butch cops and businessmen and such, but we also have a lot of sissy hairdressers. I don't think Spike is referring to Tyler's movies as Coonery, but he is referring to his shows as that. I feel the same way as Spike. The shows that Tyler has on TBS are reminiscent of the Amos and Andy days when blacks were stereotyped as loud and over the top characters. To me, a character like "Brown" or "Curtis" on the 2 sitcoms on TBS are embarassing to the black race. I say that because those characters are nothing like real people. The same can be said of Tyler's Madea character. She is a gun-toting, cigarette smoking, bat swinging grandmother that will curse someone out. Though most black americans know someone like that, it is still too over the top, therefore can be categorized as Coonery also. I will have to check them out and form my own opinion. This really makes me curious because Coonery is such a strong word and I had no idea those (the Perry shows) shows were that extremely offensive. Or that the portrayals were that extreme. But I think this type of issue, you will never have both sides happy. There will always be an audience for stereotypes, I don't mean people outside of a given community pointing and laughing, but members within that community who recognize or even embrace the stereotypes and won't find them offensive. (I find very few gay or latino stereotypes truly offensive). You'll always have the "mockery" vs. "celebrate" argument IMO. [Edited 5/28/09 8:30am] | |
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daPrettyman said: johnart said: I've never seen a Tyler Perry movie, just the ads. I remember his plays being very successful (at least I thought they were).
Why is it coonery? (serious question) Is that just based on the fact that it uses stereotypes? Similar debate (portrayal of community) is present among gays also. GlAAD is always blasting any movie/show that might have a "stereotypical" gay in it. And I kinda get that, we have butch cops and businessmen and such, but we also have a lot of sissy hairdressers. I don't think Spike is referring to Tyler's movies as Coonery, but he is referring to his shows as that. I feel the same way as Spike. The shows that Tyler has on TBS are reminiscent of the Amos and Andy days when blacks were stereotyped as loud and over the top characters. To me, a character like "Brown" or "Curtis" on the 2 sitcoms on TBS are embarassing to the black race. I say that because those characters are nothing like real people. The same can be said of Tyler's Madea character. She is a gun-toting, cigarette smoking, bat swinging grandmother that will curse someone out. Though most black americans know someone like that, it is still too over the top, therefore can be categorized as Coonery also. Sorry but those are the women in my own family whom I love and adore...and have little doubt that I've inherited just a couple of those very characteristics myself; University degreed, multi-lingual, bi-continental, card carrying NAACP'd-Urban League-d and all  | |
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But aren't most crappy sitcoms playing off stereotypes of all kinds? I do not think this is exclusive to one race. | |
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Ottensen said: daPrettyman said: I don't think Spike is referring to Tyler's movies as Coonery, but he is referring to his shows as that. I feel the same way as Spike. The shows that Tyler has on TBS are reminiscent of the Amos and Andy days when blacks were stereotyped as loud and over the top characters. To me, a character like "Brown" or "Curtis" on the 2 sitcoms on TBS are embarassing to the black race. I say that because those characters are nothing like real people. The same can be said of Tyler's Madea character. She is a gun-toting, cigarette smoking, bat swinging grandmother that will curse someone out. Though most black americans know someone like that, it is still too over the top, therefore can be categorized as Coonery also. Sorry but those are the women in my own family whom I love and adore...and have little doubt that I've inherited just a couple of those very characteristics myself; University degreed, multi-lingual, bi-continental, card carrying NAACP'd-Urban League-d and all This is how I feel of "stereotypes" in my own communities. I can recognize them in people I know as well as in myself.So I see the humor (most of the time). Is it that since we've evolved and there's more visible diversity within our communities (because I believe there's always been diversity, it just wasn't recognized) we now feel above ourselves and have to sweep those stereotypical traits under the bed? I need to take a class on this shit. It truly fascinates me. | |
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Ottensen said: daPrettyman said: I don't think Spike is referring to Tyler's movies as Coonery, but he is referring to his shows as that. I feel the same way as Spike. The shows that Tyler has on TBS are reminiscent of the Amos and Andy days when blacks were stereotyped as loud and over the top characters. To me, a character like "Brown" or "Curtis" on the 2 sitcoms on TBS are embarassing to the black race. I say that because those characters are nothing like real people. The same can be said of Tyler's Madea character. She is a gun-toting, cigarette smoking, bat swinging grandmother that will curse someone out. Though most black americans know someone like that, it is still too over the top, therefore can be categorized as Coonery also. Sorry but those are the women in my own family whom I love and adore...and have little doubt that I've inherited just a couple of those very characteristics myself; University degreed, multi-lingual, bi-continental, card carrying NAACP'd-Urban League-d and all I can say that I don't have one family member that resembles Madea in any way. Now, they do possess some of the characteristics, but are never that extreme. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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I can't comment on Tyler Perry as he has zero profile here in the UK,
but sitcoms generally are designed to feature characters that we all can relate to, even if superficially or by way of stereotype, but also feel slightly superior too. It's like a hook to get us watching and talking What you don't remember never happened | |
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JustErin said: But aren't most crappy sitcoms playing off stereotypes of all kinds? I do not think this is exclusive to one race.
They are, but Brown is too extreme. The character of Brown is like stepping back in time when people wore blackface. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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endymion said: I can't comment on Tyler Perry as he has zero profile here in the UK,
but sitcoms generally are designed to feature characters that we all can relate to, even if superficially or by way of stereotype, but also feel slightly superior too. It's like a hook to get us watching and talking http://www.youtube.com/wa...jnOI578a_A Take a look and see what you think. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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- I can agree w/ Spike on Tyler Perry | |
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JustErin said: But aren't most crappy sitcoms playing off stereotypes of all kinds? I do not think this is exclusive to one race.
true, its just that with our history we are more sensitive to it. There was a time when all you got from tv and films were sterotypical characters from Amos and Andy to superfly and the mack. What I take from Spike is that yes, there are still some "Browns" and "Madeas" around and just because we go to see them doesn't erase the fact that they are sterotypical and we need to expand our selves in the eye of the media and support other kinds of representation. I remember when the Cosby show debuted and people were complaining that it was unrealistic a doctor married to a lawyer. It was a side of Black America that had not been seen in the media and so no one or very few (Black or White) believed it was credible.
We all should know that diversity makes for a rich tapestry, and we must understand that all the threads of the tapestry are equal in value no matter what their color. Maya Angelou | |
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butterfli25 said: JustErin said: But aren't most crappy sitcoms playing off stereotypes of all kinds? I do not think this is exclusive to one race.
true, its just that with our history we are more sensitive to it. There was a time when all you got from tv and films were sterotypical characters from Amos and Andy to superfly and the mack. What I take from Spike is that yes, there are still some "Browns" and "Madeas" around and just because we go to see them doesn't erase the fact that they are sterotypical and we need to expand our selves in the eye of the media and support other kinds of representation. I remember when the Cosby show debuted and people were complaining that it was unrealistic a doctor married to a lawyer. It was a side of Black America that had not been seen in the media and so no one or very few (Black or White) believed it was credible.I believed the Cosby's were credible. I was so glad to see two successful black professionals leading a "normal" life with middle class values. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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I'm not a big fan of Tyler Perry's work, because I think it appeals to nothing but visceral reaction to characters, narrative, cliches, etc. There's no nuance, no layers of subtext, nothing critical to take away. I just think that's embarrassingly rudimentary theatre.
But coonery?  I dunno. He uses stereotypes for sure. But I think Perry actually makes an attempt at championing quite dignified positions, and I don't think he's ever been one to tap dance or disgrace himself or others for mass approval. I actually respect him for that much.
Now the Wayans are a whole different issue.  I've had beef with them since forever.[Edited 5/28/09 10:26am] Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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We’ve had this discussion back and forth. When John Singleton [made Boyz in the Hood], people came out to see it. But when he did Rosewood, nobody showed up. So a lot of this is on us! You vote with your pocketbook, your wallet. You vote with your time sitting in front of the idiot box, and [Tyler Perry] has a huge audience. We shouldn’t think that Tyler Perry is going to make the same film that I am going to make, or that John Singleton or my cousin Malcolm Lee [would make]. As African Americans, we’re not one monolithic group so there is room for all of that. But at the same time, for me, the imaging is troubling and it harkens back to Amos n’ Andy.
And that's what it's all about - balance. But Blacks don't get balanced out as far as representation in tv/film. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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 Spike!  I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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I like Spike Lee but this has been pretty much his MO throughout
his career which is to stir the pot. I dig the fact that he fights for the things that are necessary for advancement of blacks in entertainment but sometimes he can go overboard in calling out fellow blacks. He's done this before. As consistent as Spike has been throughout his career, he's also put out a few duds himself. Girl 6 anyone? Don't laugh at my funk
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JustErin said: But aren't most crappy sitcoms playing off stereotypes of all kinds? I do not think this is exclusive to one race.
It's definitely not exclusive to one race BUT the impact is greater/more detrimental if there aren't enough images floating around to counter the stereotype. If there were plenty of Black shows/comedies around, it would just be one of the bad ones. Instead it's one of very few, it sucks, is loaded w/ buffoonery, & is very popular. It's frustrating... I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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phunkdaddy said: I like Spike Lee but this has been pretty much his MO throughout
his career which is to stir the pot. I dig the fact that he fights for the things that are necessary for advancement of blacks in entertainment but sometimes he can go overboard in calling out fellow blacks. He's done this before. As consistent as Spike has been throughout his career, he's also put out a few duds himself. Girl 6 anyone? Bamboozled spoke of this same thing almost 10 years ago. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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phunkdaddy said: I like Spike Lee but this has been pretty much his MO throughout
his career which is to stir the pot. I dig the fact that he fights for the things that are necessary for advancement of blacks in entertainment but sometimes he can go overboard in calling out fellow blacks. He's done this before. As consistent as Spike has been throughout his career, he's also put out a few duds himself. Girl 6 anyone? It's pretty simple actually - while Spike has had some duds in his career he's most often a great filmmaker w/ unique vision & provocative delivery. & whether or not they say it, every artist has some judgment of the work of their colleagues. Tyler Perry's level of quality doesn't suit everyone, Spike just had the balls to say it. I've long thought that Perry needs to step his game up: he has the $ now, he has the clout - use it to make something a little more intellectually stimulating yet still entertaining. He's too "basic" but no one wants to say anything b/c they're just soooo happy to see a Black man reach that kind of success in that industry. I understand it, but I don't agree with the silence of it all. Give me quality or take yo ass home - it doesn't always have to be stupid  I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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CalhounSq said: It's pretty simple actually - while Spike has had some duds in his career he's most often a great filmmaker w/ unique vision & provocative delivery. & whether or not they say it, every artist has some judgment of the work of their colleagues. Tyler Perry's level of quality doesn't suit everyone, Spike just had the balls to say it. I've long thought that Perry needs to step his game up: he has the $ now, he has the clout - use it to make something a little more intellectually stimulating yet still entertaining. He's too "basic" but no one wants to say anything b/c they're just soooo happy to see a Black man reach that kind of success in that industry.
I understand it, but I don't agree with the silence of it all. Give me quality or take yo ass home - it doesn't always have to be stupid  Thats one of the reasons why we need more black filmakers | |
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Mstrustme said: CalhounSq said: It's pretty simple actually - while Spike has had some duds in his career he's most often a great filmmaker w/ unique vision & provocative delivery. & whether or not they say it, every artist has some judgment of the work of their colleagues. Tyler Perry's level of quality doesn't suit everyone, Spike just had the balls to say it. I've long thought that Perry needs to step his game up: he has the $ now, he has the clout - use it to make something a little more intellectually stimulating yet still entertaining. He's too "basic" but no one wants to say anything b/c they're just soooo happy to see a Black man reach that kind of success in that industry.
I understand it, but I don't agree with the silence of it all. Give me quality or take yo ass home - it doesn't always have to be stupid Thats one of the reasons why we need more black filmakersWell Spike and Tyler are really the only top dogs in black filmmaking to have black actors as main characters and supporting actors. Not to be racist sounding but at least 60 to 70% of movies to come out in any genere are caucasian...another thing is that the people who strongly support Tyler are the older african american female crowd. He speaks to them. Im happy he he has branched out and started to progress and not cast white actors in the supporting cast or have the 'token white' actor or actress in his plays/ movies with his film "The Family That Preys". I hope there will be more like that in the future. And stereotype my behind...how more was he in She Hate Me. Spike is mad I believe because Tyler kind of taken over his base audience he started off with in the past. No diss to Spike at all though, the man is brilliant. Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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paisleypark4 said: Spike is mad I believe because Tyler kind of taken over his base audience he started off with in the past
I disagree, its a RADICAL step back from Spike to Tyler, as far as Spike's base audience is concerned. Spike never has to make another movie again and his career and legacy will shit on Tyler's all day long. The quality of his work and the impact he's had as a pioneer will last alot longer than "Madea Picks Cotton." | |
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Harlepolis said: paisleypark4 said: Spike is mad I believe because Tyler kind of taken over his base audience he started off with in the past
I disagree, its a RADICAL step back from Spike to Tyler, as far as Spike's base audience is concerned. Spike never has to make another movie again and his career and legacy will shit on Tyler's all day long. The quality of his work and the impact he's had as a pioneer will last alot longer than "Madea Picks Cotton." Yeah but if Spike amde a movie like DO The Right THing..he would be deemed as a racist I would believe. Tyler's movies NEVER been based on racial tension I don't know where you got Pick cotton from. Tyler just got into the game, people give the man time. You cant deny that Why Did I Get Married, Made'a Family Reunion and The Family That Preys were good movies. They may not have lived up to Son Of Sam, Miracle At St. Anna or even 4 Little Girls, but they are still great films despite being from Tyler or not.Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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paisleypark4 said: Harlepolis said: I disagree, its a RADICAL step back from Spike to Tyler, as far as Spike's base audience is concerned. Spike never has to make another movie again and his career and legacy will shit on Tyler's all day long. The quality of his work and the impact he's had as a pioneer will last alot longer than "Madea Picks Cotton." Yeah but if Spike amde a movie like DO The Right THing..he would be deemed as a racist I would believe. Tyler's movies NEVER been based on racial tension I don't know where you got Pick cotton from. Tyler just got into the game, people give the man time. You cant deny that Why Did I Get Married, Made'a Family Reunion and The Family That Preys were good movies. They may not have lived up to Son Of Sam, Miracle At St. Anna or even 4 Little Girls, but they are still great films despite being from Tyler or not.Yeah they have - "The Family That Preys". nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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Harlepolis said: paisleypark4 said: Spike is mad I believe because Tyler kind of taken over his base audience he started off with in the past
I disagree, its a RADICAL step back from Spike to Tyler, as far as Spike's base audience is concerned. Spike never has to make another movie again and his career and legacy will shit on Tyler's all day long. The quality of his work and the impact he's had as a pioneer will last alot longer than "Madea Picks Cotton."  Aw dayum! nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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MuthaFunka said: Harlepolis said: I disagree, its a RADICAL step back from Spike to Tyler, as far as Spike's base audience is concerned. Spike never has to make another movie again and his career and legacy will shit on Tyler's all day long. The quality of his work and the impact he's had as a pioneer will last alot longer than "Madea Picks Cotton." Aw dayum! I admit I don't think House Of Payne is funny (its not even written by Tyler) and Meet The Brows is cool..but as to say it is a racially explotied show is reaching far heights. [Edited 5/28/09 13:22pm] Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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paisleypark4 said: MuthaFunka said: Aw dayum! I admit I don't think House Of Payne is funny (its not even written by Tyler) and Meet The Brows is cool..but as to say it is a racially explotied show is reaching far heights. [Edited 5/28/09 13:22pm] I think that comment was aimed more so at "Meet The Browns". nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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paisleypark4 said: MuthaFunka said: Aw dayum! I admit I don't think House Of Payne is funny (its not even written by Tyler) and Meet The Brows is cool..but as to say it is a racially explotied show is reaching far heights. [Edited 5/28/09 13:22pm] Tyler does not write all of the episodes. He has in the past. Same for The Browns **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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