the fuck? scary.

I haven't heard this yet. Is someone manufacturing something that transmits VX? That IS scary.

They're speculating that Iraq has literally tons of it. And that it's the most potent biological nerve weapon there is.

We know the they have used VX Gas, Sarin Gas, Mustard Gas and various other chemical weapons in their war with Iran, so who would doubt that they have tons of it stockpiled.

they used it on their own people in the late 80's, Haven't you seen the footage of men, women and children lying there frozen in deatth? It's horrible.there's speculation in some newspapers in Britain it has been smuggled out of Northern Iraq and may be released on a US airforce base there, or maybe even on a European country or the US.

If it was, expect big mushroom clouds over Baghdad, and some would say, rightly so.

Thecherryloon said:

Using chemical weapons against the United States would be such a HORRIBLE idea that I don't believe Saddam Hussein is stupid enough to do it... he is very well aware that the United States could wipe Iraq completely off the map in about one day if provoked.

IceNine said:

I dunno about that...




[This message was edited Fri Dec 13 7:00:02 PST 2002 by LaVisHh]

Wouldn't Saddam just say "hey wasn't me, it was those Al'Qaeda folk.I don't know where they got it!"

This is very worrying.there's no defence for Joe Public against this shit.

IceNine said:

I just recently found out about this specific weapon though. I didn't know they could be so potent and deadly. It wouldn't take much to kill thousands. I hope they find and contain this so called stockpile soon.

Chemical Weapons Working Group
P.O. Box 467, Berea, Kentucky 40403
Phone: (859) 986-7565 Fax: (859) 986-2695
e-mail: craig@cwwg.org web: www.cwwg.org

for more information contact:
Craig Williams: 859-986-7565

for immediate release: Tuesday, August 20, 2002


ANOTHER NERVE GAS RELEASE TO THE ENVIRONMENT AT ARMY'S PACIFIC CHEMICAL WEAPONS INCINERATOR; SHOWS PATTERN OF INABILITY OF INCINERATION TO RELIABLY DESTROY CHEMICAL AGENT
Deadly VX agent detected at 45 times the Army's permitted limit

The Army and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) today confirmed that VX nerve agent was released into the environment more than a week ago at the Army's Pacific Island chemical weapons incinerator. Yesterday morning the Chemical Weapons Working Group (CWWG), a grassroots coalition advocating safe, non-incineration disposal of chemical weapons, received an anonymous tip that such a release had occurred. By late afternoon they had received an Army press release, via a third party, dated August 16, 2002 confirming the incident occurred on August 12th. However, the Army press release did not specifically address whether the deadly VX had actually escaped to the environment.

The release to the environment was confirmed by additional internal Army documents obtained today by the CWWG which stated that VX agent was detected at 45 times higher than the permitted limit, though the document states that "the specific size of the release is being investigated." Citizens living near chemical weapons sites point to this incident as the latest proof that incineration cannot reliably destroy chemical agent. The CWWG and their allies continue to call for safer, more controllable non-incineration approaches for weapons disposal.

The latest chemical agent release occurred as the Pacific incinerator -- located roughly 800 miles from Hawaii on Kalama Island [Johnston Atoll] -- is going through the "closure" process, which requires that all agent-contaminated wastes and the incinerator components themselves be dismantled and decontaminated. Sludge-like wastes from a chemical agent tank were being burned in the metal parts furnace, then passed through a discharge airlock and out onto a cooling pad in the open air. Only after the smoldering material was on the cooling pad did chemical agent alarms ring inside the airlock. Three workers who were closest in proximity to the area were tested for chemical agent exposure; Army documents say those workers did not exhibit symptoms of exposure. However, no other workers were tested even though the agent-contaminated waste reportedly smoldered in the open air for more than 15 minutes.

Perimeter monitors were checked for VX agent detections, but, according to the Army's internal documents the monitors tested proved "negative for GB (Sarin) and HD (Mustard) but were inconclusive" for VX. The following day samples were taken from the waste and "...again confirmed VX."

The internal documents also show that on at least one other occasion -- in December 2000 -- a similar event took place, also resulting in an agent release to the environment. The EPA issued a "Notice of Violation" in June 2001 for that release. Earlier, in October 2000, VX agent was detected in the exhaust cyclone ash from a furnace burning VX agent-filled land mines.

Workers at the Army's Tooele, Utah incinerator have also identified agent detections and releases from waste that already been processed through furnaces there. That facility is currently shut down due to a July 15, 2002 incident in which workers were exposed to GB nerve agent.

Craig Williams, CWWG director, said, "The pattern of detecting chemical agent in material that has been run through the incinerator is very disturbing. It calls into question the fundamental destruction capability of the whole incineration approach and should be of great concern to communities where incinerators are scheduled to operate."


--30--

Chemical Agent Fact Sheet
VX
Nerve Agent
(O-ethyl S-(2-diisopropylaminoethyl) methylphosphonothioate)
Description:
Chemists in the United Kingdom searching for new insecticides came across compounds that were extremely toxic to humans. The British shared the discovery with the U.S. Army in 1953 and a systematic investigation of these new compounds was begun at Edgewood. The Army discovered they were more persistent and much more toxic than the G-series agents. In 1955, these compounds were designated V-series agents for “venomous.” VX is an oily liquid that is clear, odorless and tasteless. It can be amber colored and similar in appearance to motor oil.
Signs and Symptoms:
Symptoms of overexposure may occur within minutes or hours, depending upon the dose. They include: miosis (constriction of pupils) and visual effects, headaches and pressure sensation, runny nose and nasal congestion, salivation, tightness in the chest, nausea, vomiting, giddiness, anxiety, difficulty in thinking, difficulty sleeping, nightmares, muscle twitches, tremors, weakness, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, involuntary urination and defecation. Severe exposure symptoms progress to convulsions and respiratory failure.
Treatment:
Inhalation: Hold breath until respiratory protective mask is donned. If severe signs of agent exposure appear (chest tightens, pupil constriction, incoordination, etc.), immediately administer, in rapid succession, all three Nerve Agent Antidote Kit(s), Mark I injectors (or atropine if directed by a physician). Injections using the Mark I kit injectors may be repeated at 5 to 20 minute intervals if signs and symptoms are progressing until three series of injections have been administered. No more injections will be given unless directed by medical personnel. In addition, a record will be maintained of all injections given. If breathing has stopped, give artificial respiration. Mouth-to-mouth resuscitation should be used when mask-bag or oxygen delivery'systems are not available. Do not use mouth-to-mouth resuscitation when facial contamination exists. If breathing is difficult, administer oxygen. Seek medical attention Immediately.
Eye Contact: Immediately flush eyes with water for 10-15 minutes, then don respiratory protective mask. Although miosis (pinpointing of the pupils) may be an early sign of agent exposure, an injection will not be administered when miosis is the only sign present. Instead, the individual will be taken Immediately to a medical treatment facility for observation.
Skin Contact: Don respiratory protective mask and remove contaminated clothing. Immediately wash contaminated skin with copious amounts of soap and water, 10% sodium carbonate solution, or 5% liquid household bleach. Rinse well with water to remove excess decontaminant. Administer nerve agent antidote kit, Mark I, only if local sweating and muscular twitching symptoms are observed. Seek medical attention Immediately.
Ingestion: Do not induce vomiting. First symptoms are likely to be gastrointestinal. Immediately administer Nerve Agent Antidote Kit, Mark I. Seek medical attention Immediately.

From http://www.sbccom.army.mi...edu/vx.htm

TRON said:

Skinny Puppy had a song on "ViVisect Vi" about that wonderful substance, called "VX Gas Attack." The song was about Iraq's war with Iran.

VX Gas Attack

at ground zero pro independence heavier than air fumes city
of chemical alleged cyanide gas on to karbala what is the
difference between israel's plight a belief in outside
influence like scalding water a side effect of their faces
and lungs burn a sudden harsh smell 2 weeks after still
coughing and choking livid skin blisters burn often posters
leaflets nightly radio and television programs dead
instructions in the use of such basic devices as a damp towel
lined with charcoal to be applied to the face and mouth when
the beep beep beep gas attack warning signal sounds the dead
were among porcelain face of cloud of frozen gas poison
jagged fragment jew iranian iraqi bombs sun the first cyanide
gas warning vx nerve gas

IceNine said:

What a lovely little jingle! I'll have to hear that.

TRON said:

If you dig harsh industrial music, you will LOVE Skinny Puppy... they are the ones who are completely responsible for the modern sounds of industrial music.

cEvin Key is THE god of industrial/electronic music.

IceNine said:

I used to be really into industrial in the early 90's. Ministry, NIN, etc. but I never got around to Skinny Puppy. Always been intrigued though.

Ignorance is bliss, this is all 2 scary 2 ponder!!!

TRON said:

Skinny Puppy was THE inspiration for both of those bands... in fact, Trent Reznor never fails to praise cEvin Key in interviews... you REALLY need to get some Skinny Puppy.

They are noisy and harsh... just the way I like it.

DO NOT BUY "The Process" though... it sucks.

I would recommend these as the top three:

Last Rights
ViVi Sect Vi
Too Dark Park

June7 said:

judging from the lack of responses, it seems alot of people agree with you.

Maybe I'll pick those up. I have so many things I want to get. The list is endless.

The ones you recommended are the best rated on allmusicguide as well.

TRON said:

Excellent! I am not totally out of my mind on those then.