whodknee said:

Interesting. Jordan has more titles, more Gold, more awards of every kind than Magic.

Abdul said:

But again, MJ, for a large part of his career, got to guard smaller, less athletic PGs. His athleticism was so far ahead of what he had to face at that position that it wasn't even funny. Plus, Pip always got the harder perimeter assignments because Pip was a better defender than MJ...it's just that MJ's D looked that much more dominant while covering weaker SGs early on in his era.

Put Kobe in that same era and you'd see the same thing, just as if you put MJ in Kobe's era, MJ's D wouldn't look so dominant.

whodknee said:

Nope. Kobe faces zones. MJ never faced zones. Ask Shaq and Iverson about zones.

MuthaFunka said:

I think it would Mutha, MJ showed me back then that he could do anything he wanted on the court, I think he would "D" these young bucks up just the same as he did in his era, I just can't see these players of today who for the most part don't have half the basketball IQ of MJ and the guys of his era doing damage on the G.O.A.T

Abdul said:

Naw, no way he D's up these athletic swingmen of today like he did those unathletic SGs of his early era.

MuthaFunka said:

I think so, especially since they play zone now, it would be easier for him. He'd average two more blocks per game against these guys now, some of 'em have the worst shot selection I've ever seen

Abdul said:

Naw, zone cuts out that 1-on-1 stuff and it allows teams to "cheat" their defense and clog the paint.

Muthafunka, so humble.

Fauxie said:

I pimps like that

MuthaFunka said:

How do your friends and family put up with you? I imagine they just concede any argument for the sake of brevity.

Fauxie said:

You gotta have friends that ain't punks!

MuthaFunka said:

Or only friends that ARE punks!

MuthaFunka said:

Yeah it would stop a lesser player, but we talkin' bout the G.O.A.T. Mutha, not even a cheatin' zone could stop MJ.

Fauxie said:

Nope. That's why I hang with a SELECT group! No weaklings allowed!

Abdul said:

The GOATSG but not GOAT. And we don't know if MJ could beat a zone, especially in this era with bigger, faster, and more athletic swingmen.

MuthaFunka said:

Yeah he's the GOAT in my era, these guys may be bigger, faster and more athletic but are they better? I say no!

MuthaFunka said:

That's the decent thing to do.

Fauxie said:

MuthaFunka said:

Like quarantine.

It's thoughtful, really.

Abdul said:

In proper perspective, he's the best SG ever, with Kobe closing in - fast.

MuthaFunka said:

The thing is, Kobe's an incredible player, but he's not going to get any better at his point in his career. At that level, of Kobe, Lebron, and Wade 2.0, and the level of MJ and Magic and Bird and them, it's hard to pick between them as they're all simply awesomely talented players. I think at that very top level, especially when you're considering different eras (Russell, Wilt, Kareem etc.) it just comes down to rings to some extent, since it's quantifiable and factual. Is Kobe going to get more rings than MJ?

MuthaFunka said:

He'll never be better then MJ, not enough scoring titles, championship rings and overall NBA records to put him over the GOAT. Once Phil Jackson leaves LA again I'm curious to see how much winning they do out in LA
[Edited 5/30/09 23:31pm]

Fauxie said:

Kobe may have 2 more rings than him, but I never use team accomplishments to assess an individual player. They count...but I don't count them as meaning much in the grand scheme of things.

Abdul said:

Well, again - he's playing in a much tougher era of swingmen than MJ played, so right there that counts as a lot. He's better skilled than MJ. MJ has the hardware but MJ also was lucky enough to "get his" when Kareem, Moses, Magic, Bird, Isiah, and Dr. J were gone. All MJ had left to compete for hardware against was Nique, Ewing, Dream, and D Rob, to which the 3 big men cancelled each other out in terms of voting.

MuthaFunka said:

You understand why they come into the equation though, right? You can make a case for several guys being the greatest and it's tough to come to any kind of definite conclusion, but with rings it's easy. It's not the whole story, or even close to it, but it's a decent barometer of a player's ability to win (as part of the team, of course), which has to come into being the greatest at any team sport at some point, imho.

MuthaFunka said:

Nique's the greatest in-game dunker of all-time, just ahead of MJ, Vince Carter and Shawn Kemp.

MuthaFunka said:

LMAO!!! MJ had go through hell to earn his rings, MJ carried that team on his back for six seasons playing against the likes of, Bird-Mchale-Parish Celtics, The Bad Boys of Detroit in a much tougher Eastern Conference and overall NBA. His teammates, Pippen, Grant, Paxson etc... finally gave the man some help in 90-91 sweeping the Bad Boys and then taking out Magic and the Lakers in five.

And then once they got they're first ring things didn't get easier, they got harder. That early 90's Knick squad fought them hard,that Price,Nance,Hot Rod Williams Cavs team was always a challenge, those Trailblazer teams with Drexler, Porter, Buck, Duckworth, Kersey were the most talented bunch Ive seen to never get a ring. Then of course you Chuck's Phoenix's squad, Kemp's Sonics and the toughest of all they're finals opponents the Stockton-Malone Jazz squad. There were no easy out's for MJ 's Bulls back then but yet they still became the first team since the 60's Celtics to Three-Peat not once but TWICE!!

Kobe and crew didn't and still don't have half the comp that the Bulls had to go through to get those rings. New Jersey, my Sixers, the Pacers weren't any threat to take them.

Fauxie said:

But the SINGLE greatest in-game dunk - Doc over Michael Cooper! With the "Rock-a-bye-baby Dunk"!

Abdul said:

And MJ FINALLY did it when the 6ers, Pistons, and Celts were done. THAT'S my point. He didn't go throug hell - he got eliminated!

And don't talk about those Knick squads - Ewing NEVER had another HOFer next to him like MJ did. Neither did Barkley. Neither did Drex. ONLY Utah had 2 HOFers and they had Jeff Hornacek at SG with Bryon Russell's bitch ass trying to guaard MJ as well! .

And please The 2001 Lakers beat 4 50-GAME WIN TEAMS to win the Finals - NO TEAM IN NBA HISTORY HAS EVER DONE THAT! So don't tell me Kobe never went through tough squads. Try beating the talent-loaded Blazers year after year. And to say the 2001 6ers weren't any threat ? They had the MVP, DPOY, 6MOY, AND COY!...AND THE BACK-SWEPT 'EM!

Graycap23 said:

Did Carolina win it all with MJ? Jordan didn't have many great teams out there during his run of championships. The Jazz, Sonics, and Suns were hardly great teams. He also beat an old Lakers squad. With all that he only had one more ring. There's no way he gets 6 with the Celtics, Sixers, Pistons, and Lakers at their peaks.