LiquidGold said:

Not true. Tyler did a test run of the show in a few major cities in the country before shopping the series around to different networks. He originally attempted to go the traditional route of shopping the show to the major networks. They either turned him down or told him to change the characters. He refused to change anything. Then, he purchased time in some major cities (LA, Houston and about 2 or 3 others). When those test episodes aired in those markets, the ratings were through the roof. After getting his stats together, he then shopped it again and TBS and him took the deal. I believe on the first deal, they ordered 3 or 4 seasons worth of material upfront.

SCNDLS said:

Menace was well acted? Yeah maybe by jada pinkett but the rest
of it was nothing to write home about. Larenz Tate was thugged out
looking like a big starfish on crack. The real coonery was in this
movie with MC eight? Is he still cracked out in real life. DJ Quick
even called him out on soul train. This movie at the end of the day
was horrible.

phunkdaddy said:

I'd take a well-written, well-acted Menace or Boyz in the Hood over TP's mindless, triflin' coonery any day. My biggest issue with him, aside from the terrible writing, is the whole cross dressing thing.

daPrettyman said:

SCNDLS said:

Why is that a big issue for you? Is it because you think he's hiding who he is and it's coming out sideways, or is your issue with the whole idea of a man cross dressing in the first place?

daPrettyman said:

I see. I know they ordered a bunch of seasons. I thought it was strictly based on his popularity. Do you know how the show is doing now, ratings wise?

FunkMistress said:

Chile please I loves me a good drag queen, that OWN being a drag queen. In this case it seems to me like the continued emasculation of black men in the entertainment industry by making it perfectly acceptable in the mainstream to put a 6 foot 4 inch black man in a dress and wig, for the masses to laugh at and it's totally acceptable. It bothers me when most black actors do this not just TP. You don't see actors of other races doing this shit on the regular but it's become commonplace for blacks. I mean, would this mess have been successful, if he played a crazy ol' grandfather??? Or if the character was played by an older female Moms Mabley type actress??? Probably not. Therefore, a HUGE component in the humor for many is that it's a black man dressed as a woman. That's odd to me.

Another aspect of irritation in TP's case is that he made millions being a not so closeted gay man playing a character in drag and his PRIMARY audience is "good" church folk that are typically quite homophobic. I find all that extra hypocritical.

This show isnt funny in the least bit but i must say Meet the Browns or whatever the name of the show is is funnier!

FunkMistress said:

Chile please I loves me a good drag queen, that OWN being a drag queen. In this case it seems to me like the continued emasculation of black men in the entertainment industry by making it perfectly acceptable in the mainstream to put a 6 foot 4 inch black man in a dress and wig, for the masses to laugh at and it's totally acceptable. It bothers me when most black actors do this not just TP. You don't see actors of other races doing this shit on the regular but it's become commonplace for blacks. I mean, would this mess have been successful, if he played a crazy ol' grandfather??? Or if the character was played by an older female Moms Mabley type actress??? Probably not. Therefore, a HUGE component in the humor for many is that it's a black man dressed as a woman. That's odd to me.

Another aspect of irritation in TP's case is that he made millions being a not so closeted gay man playing a character in drag and his PRIMARY audience is "good" church folk that are typically quite homophobic. I find all that extra hypocritical.

SCNDLS said:

On the real though, flip wilson did it for years and i don't recall anyone
questioning whether he was gay or not. Now if tp is gay whether we agree
with it or not shouldn't have anything to do with the quality or lack
thereof his work. I can dig it if you don't like his work but i hope you
don't dislike the guy simply for coming off a little fruity.

phunkdaddy said:

Dude did you read my post? He actually looks gayER dressed as a man IMO.

SCNDLS said:

Yes i did read the post but between looking at kim kardashian's ass and
getting ready for class i kind of ignored the part where you say
you love a good drag queen.

This guy sums up how I feel about TP and his ilk perfectly.

http://www.blacknla.com/n...BlkMan.asp

The Bridge: Diary of a Mad Black Man

By Darryl James

I don't think it will surprise anyone to hear me say that I'm a mad Black man right about now.

I'm angry that the image of Black men in America is once again, under attack.

There has been one new stereotype added to the paradigm over the past few decades-the Black man in drag, currently re-emerging, headed by filmmaker/actor Tyler Perry.

The Black man in drag is one of the new coons. It’s hip and chic and the stereotype is comfortable for all who may have fear of a strong Black man. For white people, the stereotype presents a non-threatening Black male who won't stand up to racism or start a revolution. No one has to oppress him, because he’s self-castrated.

The stereotype is also comfortable for women who have had nothing good come from relationships with Black men because a castrated clown won’t tell them what to do, won't beat them and will sit down with them as nearly one of them. Perhaps they find comfort in this new role of the sensitive male gone too far--so far that he has become the woman. Literally.

What is that showing us? It is showing debauchery and the base level of entertainment.

And it ain’t even good.

It’s a bad knockoff of Flip Wilson’s Geraldine, which was an anomaly during a period when at least we attempted to protect our own image. But currently, no one is protecting anything. We offer up our women to be degraded in garbage over beats called Rap music, and we offer ourselves up in any available vehicle.

Tyler Perry ain’t killing nobody and his work ain’t as bad as other material, but is not ground breaking culturally revolutionary material. Let's call it what it is: This is a grown man running around dressed as a woman.

And, dig, if you will the release of Martin Lawrence's drag queen gig "Big Mama's House, II," during the same time period.

Even the most popular comedian today, Dave Chappelle recoiled when they came at him with the dress, which he acknowledges is always a part of the plan for Black men in entertainment.

Jamie Foxx wore the dress as Wanda long before Oscar consideration. And Martin Lawrence first played "dress up" on his very own sitcom, playing an ugly, ignorant woman that Black women should have beaten him for.

But no one will beat him or Tyler Perry, and really, more people will be angry with me for writing this than will even take issue with the celebration of Black men in drag on the silver screen.

It's not that I expect every Black film to contain images the likes of Malcolm X or Muhammad Ali, or for Denzel Washington, Lawrence Fishburne, Will Smith and Mos Def to star in everything, but since we are spending the dollars to make the difference, we should at least expect something more dignified than what we have been getting.

The excuse for any film debauchery is always that different stories and different characters won’t do the same numbers. That has only become true because the nation, including the Black portion has come to expect something simplistic and non-threatening to deal with when it comes to our images on film.

And the super-irrelevant anachronistic NAACP looks foolish each year slinging so-called "Image Awards" to people who are crapping on our image.
Everyone from grandmothers to college girls have the Madea DVD collection, but the most significant and scary portion of Perry’s audience is Black males.

The fact that Black men have lined up to see a self-castrated Negro clown is evidence of something else I'll be writing about soon--the effeminization of the Black man. And let's be very clear: This is not about bashing gays, but purely about the diminishing and effeminization of the Black male.
While some may cheer for Perry’s success, making claims of what it may portend for other Black films, I weep for what it portends for the Black male image.

At the end of the Civil Rights Movement, the new push was for Black women by Black women to end their own oppression, but what of the Black male, relegated to specific extremes of hypermasculinity or emasculization near eunuch status? What of the Black boys who are taught by Black women to hate/despise their fathers? What of our new culture of Black male effeminization? Perhaps it's time for Black men to take up a movement of our own, specifically to define ourselves and to protect our community.

The pursuit of such a movement would not be juxtaposed to Black women's dance with feminism, as both the male and female psyches in the race have been harmed from sexual misidentification and oppression. Some of our sisters are shouting from the rooftops that strong Black women are a threat, even if only to Black men, but the simple truth is that strong Black men have always been a threat to many people in this nation, including some of our own people who would rather embrace the likes of Madea than any nouveau Malcolm X.

But as we examine the race's difficulties and try to exact solutions, we must first examine the images that today's young Black men are emulating.

At one end of the extreme in the diminishing of the Black male image is the movement of men into the thug mentality, as desired by even some of our most sophisticated females ("I want an educated man with a little thug in him"). Grown men who have never had a fight in their lives are claiming to be thugs, dressing like gangsters and talking like street thugs, looking silly and setting horrible examples for the emerging generation of Black men.

At the other end of the extreme is the effeminate Black male, which includes the Black man in drag as well a the emerging Black "Metrosexual," who may or may not be gay, but is certainly not a man’s man. Yesterday’s father would beat Junior for dressing that way and for wearing makeup and yesterday, Junior would not have paid any attention to the softer societal trends unless he was really gay, and perhaps, not even then. Yet, today, we see the re-emergence of previously horrifying Black male images.

Certainly, the Black female image is also under attack. But as we see an emergence of consciousness among younger Black women, who seek to protect their image, Black men must stand up and do the same.

We need to protect ourselves and then come together to protect each other. We already know that no one else will.

For evidence, witness the Academy Awards of 2006, where the Black image sunk to a low only witnessed at the beginning of our relationship with Hollywood. The empty-minded, talentless wretches who won an Oscar for Best Song paraded themselves around the stage as pimps and hoes, followed by Queen Latifah, who asked: "Why wasn't I included in that?"

While the blind-minded were celebrating, the real pimps were laughing at the Negroes who are being codified and ensconced into the Negro images that are most acceptable--pimps and hoes.

Those images were no more clearly embraced than at this year's Academy Awards, as a Black woman sang about how hard it is out here for a pimp, while a bunch of prideless clowns paraded around the stage.

But, really, I want to tell those morons that it's not that hard out here for a pimp. It's just that you're not the pimp. Listen closely, and in the background over your shoulder, you'll hear the real pimp shouting "Whoop that trick!"

Maybe you’re asleep or just too high too feel the pain.
[Edited 4/28/09 11:56am]

This guy sums up how I feel about TP and his ilk perfectly.

http://www.blacknla.com/n...BlkMan.asp

The Bridge: Diary of a Mad Black Man

By Darryl James

I don't think it will surprise anyone to hear me say that I'm a mad Black man right about now.

I'm angry that the image of Black men in America is once again, under attack.

There has been one new stereotype added to the paradigm over the past few decades-the Black man in drag, currently re-emerging, headed by filmmaker/actor Tyler Perry.

The Black man in drag is one of the new coons. It’s hip and chic and the stereotype is comfortable for all who may have fear of a strong Black man. For white people, the stereotype presents a non-threatening Black male who won't stand up to racism or start a revolution. No one has to oppress him, because he’s self-castrated.

The stereotype is also comfortable for women who have had nothing good come from relationships with Black men because a castrated clown won’t tell them what to do, won't beat them and will sit down with them as nearly one of them. Perhaps they find comfort in this new role of the sensitive male gone too far--so far that he has become the woman. Literally.

What is that showing us? It is showing debauchery and the base level of entertainment.

And it ain’t even good.

It’s a bad knockoff of Flip Wilson’s Geraldine, which was an anomaly during a period when at least we attempted to protect our own image. But currently, no one is protecting anything. We offer up our women to be degraded in garbage over beats called Rap music, and we offer ourselves up in any available vehicle.

Tyler Perry ain’t killing nobody and his work ain’t as bad as other material, but is not ground breaking culturally revolutionary material. Let's call it what it is: This is a grown man running around dressed as a woman.

And, dig, if you will the release of Martin Lawrence's drag queen gig "Big Mama's House, II," during the same time period.

Even the most popular comedian today, Dave Chappelle recoiled when they came at him with the dress, which he acknowledges is always a part of the plan for Black men in entertainment.

Jamie Foxx wore the dress as Wanda long before Oscar consideration. And Martin Lawrence first played "dress up" on his very own sitcom, playing an ugly, ignorant woman that Black women should have beaten him for.

But no one will beat him or Tyler Perry, and really, more people will be angry with me for writing this than will even take issue with the celebration of Black men in drag on the silver screen.

It's not that I expect every Black film to contain images the likes of Malcolm X or Muhammad Ali, or for Denzel Washington, Lawrence Fishburne, Will Smith and Mos Def to star in everything, but since we are spending the dollars to make the difference, we should at least expect something more dignified than what we have been getting.

The excuse for any film debauchery is always that different stories and different characters won’t do the same numbers. That has only become true because the nation, including the Black portion has come to expect something simplistic and non-threatening to deal with when it comes to our images on film.

And the super-irrelevant anachronistic NAACP looks foolish each year slinging so-called "Image Awards" to people who are crapping on our image.
Everyone from grandmothers to college girls have the Madea DVD collection, but the most significant and scary portion of Perry’s audience is Black males.

The fact that Black men have lined up to see a self-castrated Negro clown is evidence of something else I'll be writing about soon--the effeminization of the Black man. And let's be very clear: This is not about bashing gays, but purely about the diminishing and effeminization of the Black male.
While some may cheer for Perry’s success, making claims of what it may portend for other Black films, I weep for what it portends for the Black male image.

At the end of the Civil Rights Movement, the new push was for Black women by Black women to end their own oppression, but what of the Black male, relegated to specific extremes of hypermasculinity or emasculization near eunuch status? What of the Black boys who are taught by Black women to hate/despise their fathers? What of our new culture of Black male effeminization? Perhaps it's time for Black men to take up a movement of our own, specifically to define ourselves and to protect our community.

The pursuit of such a movement would not be juxtaposed to Black women's dance with feminism, as both the male and female psyches in the race have been harmed from sexual misidentification and oppression. Some of our sisters are shouting from the rooftops that strong Black women are a threat, even if only to Black men, but the simple truth is that strong Black men have always been a threat to many people in this nation, including some of our own people who would rather embrace the likes of Madea than any nouveau Malcolm X.

But as we examine the race's difficulties and try to exact solutions, we must first examine the images that today's young Black men are emulating.

At one end of the extreme in the diminishing of the Black male image is the movement of men into the thug mentality, as desired by even some of our most sophisticated females ("I want an educated man with a little thug in him"). Grown men who have never had a fight in their lives are claiming to be thugs, dressing like gangsters and talking like street thugs, looking silly and setting horrible examples for the emerging generation of Black men.

At the other end of the extreme is the effeminate Black male, which includes the Black man in drag as well a the emerging Black "Metrosexual," who may or may not be gay, but is certainly not a man’s man. Yesterday’s father would beat Junior for dressing that way and for wearing makeup and yesterday, Junior would not have paid any attention to the softer societal trends unless he was really gay, and perhaps, not even then. Yet, today, we see the re-emergence of previously horrifying Black male images.

Certainly, the Black female image is also under attack. But as we see an emergence of consciousness among younger Black women, who seek to protect their image, Black men must stand up and do the same.

We need to protect ourselves and then come together to protect each other. We already know that no one else will.

For evidence, witness the Academy Awards of 2006, where the Black image sunk to a low only witnessed at the beginning of our relationship with Hollywood. The empty-minded, talentless wretches who won an Oscar for Best Song paraded themselves around the stage as pimps and hoes, followed by Queen Latifah, who asked: "Why wasn't I included in that?"

While the blind-minded were celebrating, the real pimps were laughing at the Negroes who are being codified and ensconced into the Negro images that are most acceptable--pimps and hoes.

Those images were no more clearly embraced than at this year's Academy Awards, as a Black woman sang about how hard it is out here for a pimp, while a bunch of prideless clowns paraded around the stage.

But, really, I want to tell those morons that it's not that hard out here for a pimp. It's just that you're not the pimp. Listen closely, and in the background over your shoulder, you'll hear the real pimp shouting "Whoop that trick!"

Maybe you’re asleep or just too high too feel the pain.
[Edited 4/28/09 11:56am]

SCNDLS said:

Interesting article but the truth of the matter is no matter which way
you go, someone is always gonna flip on you or get political to stir
up the pot and get noticed. It's passe now for a black journalist to get
his panties in a wad over any and everything a black entertainer does
instead of coming up with solutions to change or improve things directly.
Has the author of this article forgotten that America has seen patrick swayze,
john travolta, dustin hoffman, and robin williams make films in
which they have cross dressed?
[Edited 4/28/09 12:12pm]

- I agree w/ Dave Chapelle and I think the difference is that there a plethora of positive images of white males to counteract any images of white males cross-dressing and from a statistical and proportional perspective I wonder whether it is white or black male actors who are more likely to be put in a dress; imo this is where the real difference lies

- I agree w/ Dave Chapelle and I think the difference is that there a plethora of positive images of white males to counteract any images of white males cross-dressing and from a statistical and proportional perspective I wonder whether it is white or black male actors who are more likely to be put in a dress; imo this is where the real difference lies

- I agree w/ Dave Chapelle and I think the difference is that there a plethora of positive images of white males to counteract any images of white males cross-dressing and from a statistical and proportional perspective I wonder whether it is white or black male actors who are more likely to be put in a dress; imo this is where the real difference lies

- I agree w/ Dave Chapelle and I think the difference is that there a plethora of positive images of white males to counteract any images of white males cross-dressing and from a statistical and proportional perspective I wonder whether it is white or black male actors who are more likely to be put in a dress; imo this is where the real difference lies

phunkdaddy said:

Actually the only bad actors in Menace were THE LEAD (sadly enough) & dude that played "Ileana's cousin, pahtna!" Everybody else was alright, thought Jada was a little high strung. Don't accuse Charles Dutton of bad acting

FunkMistress said:

Chile please I loves me a good drag queen, that OWN being a drag queen. In this case it seems to me like the continued emasculation of black men in the entertainment industry by making it perfectly acceptable in the mainstream to put a 6 foot 4 inch black man in a dress and wig, for the masses to laugh at and it's totally acceptable. It bothers me when most black actors do this not just TP. You don't see actors of other races doing this shit on the regular but it's become commonplace for blacks. I mean, would this mess have been successful, if he played a crazy ol' grandfather??? Or if the character was played by an older female Moms Mabley type actress??? Probably not. Therefore, a HUGE component in the humor for many is that it's a black man dressed as a woman. That's odd to me.

Another aspect of irritation in TP's case is that he made millions being a not so closeted gay man playing a character in drag and his PRIMARY audience is "good" church folk that are typically quite homophobic. I find all that extra hypocritical.

SCNDLS said:

look at SCNDLS usin' big words and shit

Drag has been a major part of theater since its infancy.

FunkMistress said:

Chile please I loves me a good drag queen, that OWN being a drag queen. In this case it seems to me like the continued ejaculation of black men in the entertainment industry by making it perfectly analceptable in the mainstream to put a 6 foot 4 inch black man in a dress and wig, for the masses to laugh at and it's totally acceptable. It bothers me when most black actors do this not just TP. You don't see actors of other races doing this shit on the regular but it's become commonplace for blacks. I mean, would this mess have been successful, if he played a crazy ol' grandfather??? Or if the character was played by an older female Moms Mabley type actress??? Probably not. Therefore, a HUGE component in the humor for many is that it's a black man dressed as a woman. That's odd to me.

Another aspect of irritation in TP's case is that he made millions being a not so closeted gay man playing a character in drag and his PRIMARY audience is "good" church folk that are typically quite homophobic. I find all that extra hypocritical.